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Rare Gold & silver coins / the Numismatic thread

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Steve Sjuggerud calls Rare gold coins, "the buy of the century"

 

010407Rude1.JPG

 

"Even though the price of gold is near its highs, vintage coins have gotten crushed -- creating what I believe is the buy of the century in pre-1933 graded U.S. gold coins. The price of vintage gold coins usually tracks the gold price. But since mid-summer, this relationship has broken down. Gold is near new highs, but pre-1933 graded gold coins have lost a third of their values. It's extraordinary. "

. .

"I want to own gold for the long run...and right now, the best way to own gold is through graded pre-1933 U.S. gold coins. Your downside is limited, as they've fallen closer to their melt value than they've ever been.

 

And if gold keeps going up, I expect these will go up even more. In the last two coin bull markets, we saw prices rise 665% (in 1987-89) and a whopping 1,195% (in 1976-80). (Those are the returns of the PCGS 3000 rare-coin index.)"

 

...more: http://www.howestreet.com/articles/index.p...article_id=3565

 

= = =

 

how do you buy them??

 

This is an area in which i do not have much experience.

Does anyone on GEI know how to buy them without getting ripped off?

 

Where does Steve S's price series come from?

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Interesting idea although he seems a little off on the Buffalo coins minted last year. I bought some proofs for $800 each and PGCS graded PF70 sell for over $1,000 on ebay now.

 

Buffalo first strikes do indeed sell for around $700 to $750 but the mint never sold those for $800, I think they were sold for $650.

 

If it is true that these coins flooded the market, then this is definitely an opportunity worth taking advantage of. Looking around on ebay there does seem to be awful lot of rare gold coins for sale and they are nearly all selling below list prices.

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Yeah. Baird's in Hatton Garden. goldline.co.uk

 

I bought some Krugers there in person just before Xmas. They don't take plastic in the branch, so it's either cash on the nail, or pay by cheque, and collect later, after it clears.

 

TLM

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I bought some Krugers there in person just before Xmas. They don't take plastic in the branch, so it's either cash on the nail, or pay by cheque, and collect later, after it clears.

 

TLM

What were the staff like, I've heard they can be a bit shirty with customers.

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What were the staff like, I've heard they can be a bit shirty with customers.

 

I'd heard this too, from Frizzer's experiences related in the first Minesite podcast; seems that they just prefer to deal with the trade.

 

I just kept the chat to a minimum, asked for the spot price and made the transaction. I had phoned them up the prevous week though, to check availability and payment options, so knew exactly my approach in the shop. I'd say the guy was brief, to the point of being abrupt, but businesslike rather than rude. I think if I'd dithered about I'd have got shorter shrift, though.

 

TLM

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Guest Guest_Silent Reader_*
Steve Sjuggerud calls Rare gold coins, "the buy of the century"

 

010407Rude1.JPG

 

"Even though the price of gold is near its highs, vintage coins have gotten crushed -- creating what I believe is the buy of the century in pre-1933 graded U.S. gold coins. The price of vintage gold coins usually tracks the gold price. But since mid-summer, this relationship has broken down. Gold is near new highs, but pre-1933 graded gold coins have lost a third of their values. It's extraordinary. "

. .

"I want to own gold for the long run...and right now, the best way to own gold is through graded pre-1933 U.S. gold coins. Your downside is limited, as they've fallen closer to their melt value than they've ever been.

 

And if gold keeps going up, I expect these will go up even more. In the last two coin bull markets, we saw prices rise 665% (in 1987-89) and a whopping 1,195% (in 1976-80). (Those are the returns of the PCGS 3000 rare-coin index.)"

 

...more: http://www.howestreet.com/articles/index.p...article_id=3565

 

= = =

 

how do you buy them??

 

This is an area in which i do not have much experience.

Does anyone on GEI know how to buy them without getting ripped off?

 

Where does Steve S's price series come from?

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I would also like to know where to buy these rare gold coins, below is an example of the "current state of play" on ebay

 

 

http://goldprice.org/buying-gold/2006/11/u...-gold-coin.html

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=130066066336

 

Well over the current gold price in my opinion to the tune of approximately £25 per 1/4oz and thats not even including any carriage charges

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I don't normally buy rare coins and I would NEVER buy on ebay, the premiums they add on can be so high and the chance of getting scammed is great.

 

Most of these ebay sellers are resellers and get them from the trade companies like ATS / Baird & co (aka goldline.co.uk) so I would email one of these reputable coin dealers that have been going for years and ask them first before risking it with some cowboy. I think the main reason the larger companies often don't seem to push the Numismatics is 'cos they prefer trade and don't want the hassle.

 

But as I say I don't like Numismatic coins so I'm biased...

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I'd heard this too, from Frizzer's experiences related in the first Minesite podcast; seems that they just prefer to deal with the trade.

 

 

TLM

 

hahaha. yes I've been there too... it's solely a trade counter so not for the likes of us. better off going to their stratford branch where the staff are far more polite

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There is a UK fund Avarae Global Coins (AVR.L) which holds a portfolio of rare coins. It seems to be carving out a bottom in a similar way that junior mining shares are. If gold really takes off like the juniors it could also do very well.

 

*Disclosure - I bought into this share very recently, so I'm biased :) *

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Seems that rare gold coins may be very different to a gold junior and therefore not so comparable.

 

Rare gold coins mainly valued on rarity and collectability, with a base value according to gold content.

 

Gold juniors are a leveraged play on gold.

 

 

Is there really any correlation between the charts ??

 

. :unsure::unsure:

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Seems that rare gold coins may be very different to a gold junior and therefore not so comparable.

 

Rare gold coins mainly valued on rarity and collectability, with a base value according to gold content.

 

Gold juniors are a leveraged play on gold.

 

 

Is there really any correlation between the charts ??

 

. :unsure::unsure:

 

True I think that on balance many juniors are probably a better bet overall. However in a huge bull market in gold (if we get it) which includes broad public participation, then rare coins will probably start getting valued at significant premiums over their metal content. But it is a big if...

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...

Does anyone on GEI know how to buy them without getting ripped off?

...

Where does Steve S's price series come from?

 

You can buy them from most numismatic dealers, in the UK have a look at http://www.bnta.net/ for a list of dealers, there are loads and the coinage does not have to be gold, in fact some of the rarer and more expensive ones are not gold. Like anything rare the price increases but only when there are buyers who have the cash to buy them. Keep away from them unless you want to be a collector as there are better things around to waste your money on. If you think that the financial markets are rigged then you just would not believe the antique market.

 

Bairds are not numismatic dealers they are bullion dealers, even though they sell coin it is in the main bullion and not collector quality. Physical bullion is a different business, if it is rare you can't melt it so you do not really want anything to do with numismatic quality coin and you just want to pass it on for as much as you can get.

 

I do not know of the series that Steve S has shown it looks like it is from the US PCG, I think the spike was due to a short period in history when people in the financial areas were being paid in anything but real money before the taxman worked out he was being conned. Old cars and vintage wineswent up to silly prices as well at the same time.

 

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