Jump to content
drbubb

The Breakthrough - Human thinking is changing

Recommended Posts

Forget ISAs. For you dear JD I present the IPS: The Individual Polarity Shift account.

Ideal for those still seeing everything as totally three-dimensional; & black & white :D

 

Not at all Laura, how closed-minded of you, I expected more from you, tut tut.

 

You're just a beginner, us physicists are already up to 13 dimensions! ;)

 

You don’t need mumbo jumbo to see the wonders of the universe, including those beyond most people comprehension.

 

Following the principles of the scientific method, it appears that, as weird as it sounds, fact really might be stranger than fiction.

 

Of course, as always, the difference is that we have evidence of our way out theories :D

 

 

 

 

(That said, if you can get me better than 4%, I might be tempted by your IPS :rolleyes: )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dammit JD. I can't argue with any of that! -

 

Thread derailing mode on: How about 7.25%?

 

As a valued client, I wanted to offer you the opportunity to invest in the new Caxton FX Bond.

 

Over the years, we have grown successfully on the loyalty and support of our clients and when it came to deciding how best to fund the next stages of our growth, I made a very deliberate decision to find a way of giving a return to our valued customers and involving them more closely in the continuing growth and success of the business.

 

To achieve this we have created the Caxton FX Bond, a simple investment product that will provide investors with a better rate of return on their savings than UK high street banks currently offer and provide us with the working capital to accelerate our growth.

 

The Caxton FX Bond is a non-convertible non-transferable four-year initial fixed term investment of between £2,000 and £50,000 per bondholder, which will offer bondholders a 7.25% (gross) annual return on their investment.

 

Subscriptions of a minimum of £2,000 and thereafter in multiples of £1,000 – maximum investment £50,000

4 year initial term – the Caxton FX Bond maybe redeemed in full upon the Bondholder giving 6 months notice prior to the fourth anniversary or any subsequent anniversary

7.25% (gross) per annum – interest paid every 6 months

For full details on the Caxton FX Bond Issue and to download our Bond Invitation Document and application form please go to www.caxtonfxbond.co.uk

 

Thread derailing mode off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dammit JD. I can't argue with any of that! -

 

Thread derailing mode on: How about 7.25%?

 

As a valued client, I wanted to offer you the opportunity to invest in the new Caxton FX Bond.

 

Over the years, we have grown successfully on the loyalty and support of our clients and when it came to deciding how best to fund the next stages of our growth, I made a very deliberate decision to find a way of giving a return to our valued customers and involving them more closely in the continuing growth and success of the business.

 

To achieve this we have created the Caxton FX Bond, a simple investment product that will provide investors with a better rate of return on their savings than UK high street banks currently offer and provide us with the working capital to accelerate our growth.

 

The Caxton FX Bond is a non-convertible non-transferable four-year initial fixed term investment of between £2,000 and £50,000 per bondholder, which will offer bondholders a 7.25% (gross) annual return on their investment.

 

Subscriptions of a minimum of £2,000 and thereafter in multiples of £1,000 – maximum investment £50,000

4 year initial term – the Caxton FX Bond maybe redeemed in full upon the Bondholder giving 6 months notice prior to the fourth anniversary or any subsequent anniversary

7.25% (gross) per annum – interest paid every 6 months

For full details on the Caxton FX Bond Issue and to download our Bond Invitation Document and application form please go to www.caxtonfxbond.co.uk

 

Thread derailing mode off.

 

Thread derailing............ perhaps, board re-railing, definitely :D

 

But 4 years? Even I'm not sure they'll keep the charade going 4 years :unsure:

 

Still, heho, in 6 years we'll be off to explore Mars!!

 

Mars express

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think humans used before the "tyranny of scientists"?

 

It was a mixture of:

+ Experience (& anecdotal evidence)

+ Religion

+ Inherited tradition (including: historical experience, folklore, & some superstition)

 

AND Missing from this list is : "Intuition" (or one might say: "knowledge of the heart")

 

I am fairly sure you will be unhappy with this - especially "intuition", but what we are finding is some elements of Psychic knowledge, are slowly being validated by science. For example, the success of Remote Viewing in solving missing persons cases is fairly well known. What is less well-known is the use of RV in military and other applications. If you look at the work of Courtney XX, you will see how the scientific method is being applied to RV techniques.

 

"The tyranny of scientists". What tyranny? Scientists are underpaid, largely ignored and have no particular social standing in many countries, especially the more anti-intellectual countries.

Scientists, when they dare to speak up usually get whacked hard or ignored.

Recent examples of this:

UK Government advisor Dr. David Nutt vs. Alan Johnson. Nutt got sacked for daring to publicly speak about facts on the drug-policy and the relative drugs harms. Johnson didn't like what he heard, so he booted Nutt out.

Professor Edzard Ernest got nearly pushed out of a job for laying into princes Charles as a purveyor of quack medicine.

 

References:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/oct/30/drugs-adviser-david-nutt-sacked

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jul/30/edzard-ernst-homeopathy-complementary-medicine

 

 

Experience, religion, intuition and tradition are merely amateur attempts at providing explanations/theories about the world.

Once you become a bit more intellectually rigorous and intellectually honest, you end up with the scientific method. This doesn't mean that scientists are saints. I know plenty, most of their work is a joke and nothing more than an exercise in staying employed and getting grant money. But they're not the real practitioners of science, just people that work in academia doing cargo-cult science. The public (and funding bodies) is too ignorant to tell the difference.

 

You may think that I'm dismissing experience, religion, intuition - and you're right.

At best, these nothing more than a stepping stone for exploring an interesting phenomenon in a more rigorous fashion with the best tool humans have - the scientific method.

"In my experience, the world appears flat. Therefore it is."

Surely not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that's not exactly true in the US of A...

 

From my "Huge Holes in Pockets, Part 2" article:

 

Health care and Life Expectancy

 

Some will object to my comments, and say that lives are being prolonged by improved healthcare, and that advanced healthcare is inherently more expensive, as technology improves. Indeed, we have seen healthcare costs creep up as a share of GDP across the world, although to lower levels than in the US. The statistics show an improvement in the expected lifespan of individuals in the entire world, where the current world average life expectancy is 67.2 years, according to Wikipedia. In the US, the expected lifespan at birth has gone up from 68.2 years in 1950, to 73.7 years in 1980, and up to 78.3 years in 2010. That's a meaningful improvement, but if you look more deeply you will see that nearly all of that improvement is due to a reduction in mortality amongst infants and young children. More people make it 10, 20 or 30 years than they did in 1900, 1950 or 1980. But life expectancy beyond the age of 50 has improved very little*. In fact, we are more prone to fall prey to certain "modern" diseases, (such as cancer, diabetes, and HIV-AIDS.) The rise of these diseases have come with changes in our diet, lifestyle, and living arrangements. If expensive healthcare were rationed, as it is being done in other countries, people would need to take on more responsibility for their own wellness, and not expect the medical care system to bail them out from poor dietary and lifestyle choices.

 

You might expect that longevity would decline in hard times, but that has not been the case:

 

"The relationship between economic circumstance and life expectancy is not clear-cut, however. A study by José A. Tapia Granados and Ana Diez Roux at the University of Michigan found that life expectancy actually increased during the Great Depression, and during recessions and depressions in general. The authors suggest that when people are working extra hard during good economic times, they undergo more stress, exposure to pollution, and likelihood of injury among other longevity-limiting factors." (source)

 

Also, even with our advanced medical technology, and supposed top notch healthcare, the US is nowhere near the top in Life Expectancy at birth. According to the UN, that honor belongs to Japan at 82.6 years. Hong Kong is second (82.2 years), and Iceland is third (81.8 years.) In the UN data, the US comes in at number 36 (78.3 years.) And that's below the US Virgin Islands (#20, at 79.3 years), and Puerto Rico (#31. at 78.7 years.) Apparently, although Americans pay the most per capita for their healthcare, they are getting a much lesser result than countries that spend less.

 

The whole notion of healthcare needs to be changed in the US. The industry now gets paid when people fall ill and require treatment. This often means prescribing expensive branded drugs, because physicians have been "educated" about their benefits, rather than cheaper generic drugs, or herbal medicines which are little mentioned in medical education. There is little emphasis on prevention of disease. Americans eat a poor diet, get little exercise, and expect their doctors to prescribe a handful of pills when they are unwell. This is an expensive, wasteful and unsustainable health regime...

 

/source: http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/dr-bubb/2011/08/31/america-has-huge-holes-in-its-pockets-part-2

 

Dumbed down, and brain-washed,

Americans pay too much for their healthcare, as the Doctors get rich,

and the pharmaceutical makers prosper.

 

American health care suffers from political & policy problems and business exploits it. That's not a reason to dispair nor is it the fault of science, just the jerks that exploit it.

There's still reason for optimism, humanity is doing ever better and solving more and more problems. That certain countries are failing to maximize the benefits from it, is a different problem, usually a because of political and cultural (the idiots that keep voting for the idiot politicians) stupidity.

If policy were made on a rational basis, we'd all be better off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, some of the more scientifically valid (i.e. theory understood well, and so really just engineering hurdles to overcome) like hot fusion (i.e. ITER of laser fusion for example), which offer potentially limitless safe clean energy, are being funded right now by multiple counties.

I have attended a talk given by the head of that effort (XX)

 

What I heard about was a massively expensive effort, that will take many years before anything can come from it.

Meantime, there are loads of reports of cheaper successful inventions that were bought out and shut down,

or where people were visited by nasty thugs and told not to do any more work.

 

I cannot vouch for the validity of this homemade technology (surely, some of it doesn't work), but I find

it interesting that these reports persist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

American health care suffers from political & policy problems and business exploits it. That's not a reason to dispair nor is it the fault of science, just the jerks that exploit it.

There's still reason for optimism, humanity is doing ever better and solving more and more problems. That certain countries are failing to maximize the benefits from it, is a different problem, usually a because of political and cultural (the idiots that keep voting for the idiot politicians) stupidity.

If policy were made on a rational basis, we'd all be better off.

The problem is that it is driven by political patronage and lobbyists, not rationality

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bubb, thanks for posting this. Due to time issues I normally just focus on the financial related topics on GEI. A bout of insomnia last night (and this night too) meant I could have a look at the video and make some comments here. I've only watched half so far but it triggered memory of a very important experience I had when I was much younger. I am now fairly sure that the experience I had was what is known as a Kundalini awakening, a form of spiritual awakening. I feel very fortunate indeed that I had this experience since there are many people who actively seek to bring about a Kundalini awakening through yoga and they spend time searching for it, trying to trigger it and it doesn't happen.

 

The fact that I find it slightly awkward to even post this is really symptomatic of the science dominated society we are living in today. I have never told anyone before that I had this experience, and in some way, that is an unfortunate reflection of the society we live in. As far as the experience I had, it cannot be measured by an instrument, nor tested, therefore in the eyes of a scientist, presumably they would conclude that the phenomena doesn't exist. I will fully admit that prior to the experience, if someone had recounted a similar experience to me, I would have inwardly denied that they had had such an experience, since it was not something that could be logically or rationally explained. Although I tend to be rather sceptical, I am open minded, although when I was younger I was very much more sceptical and if something couldn't be rationally explained, then in my eyes, it didn't exist. That in itself is perhaps a reflection of the way we are taught to think whilst in our formative years.

 

I prefer not to recount my personal experience in detail (perhaps another time), but found a description that captures the essence of it quite well (at http://www.livestrong.com/article/40521-kundalini-awakening-symptoms//)

 

 

 

"

87584453_XS.jpg

 

 

Kundalini Awakening Symptoms

 

 

 

The awakening of Kundalini energy at the base of your spine can be a dramatic experience that is said to profoundly shift your level of consciousness. Kundalini awakening symptoms vary a great deal from person to person. Some people experience intense physical symptoms. Others might have mostly psychological or emotional symptoms. Kundalini awakenings involve your unresolved physical or emotional situations coming to surface so that you can resolve and release them.

 

 

Involuntary Movements

As Kundalini energy moves through your body to clear away your physiological blocks, you might experience intense involuntary jerking movements of your body. These movements can include vibrations, shaking, muscle spasms and contractions. You might re-access emotions and memories connected to past injuries and traumas.

 

Yogic Phenomenon Some Kundalini awakening symptoms involve people performing yogic postures or mudras (hand gestures) that you have never learned or could not perform in a regular state of consciousness. Additional symptoms include having an awareness of inner sound or music, tones or mantras. You might also have unusual breathing patterns that are slow or very rapid. You might not even breathe at all for an extended period of time during Kundalini awakening.

 

 

Physiological Symptoms

Kundalini awakening can cause strange physiological activity as the movement of energy helps release toxins from your body. Physiological symptoms can include pains in your spine and head, nervous system problems, heart problem and gastrointestinal disturbances. Internal symptoms may include burning sensations, hyperactivity or lethargy, greatly increased or decreased sexual desire, and even spontaneous orgasms. These symptoms might come and go without response to medical treatment.

 

 

Emotional Upheaval

You might experience an emotional roller coaster with feelings of guilt, depression, anxiety, joy, compassion, love accompanied by uncontrollable crying. These unexplainable emotional shifts are the result of the Kundalini energy helping you clear away your unresolved issues. The confusion and imbalance that accompanies these changes is normal.

 

 

Extrasensory Experience

Kundalini awakening symptoms can include unusual visual phenomena such as symbols or visions of lights. You may also hear voices, inner sounds, music or mantras. Symptoms include smelling incense, rose or sandalwood. You might also feel bigger than your body or out of your body with an accompanying sense of disorientation and confusion.

 

 

Psychic Ability

Kundalini awakening symptoms include psychic abilities like precognition (knowing something before it happens), telepathy, healing abilities and awareness of auras."

 

 

 

 

 

 

My experience included elements of all the above apart from the last category "Psychic ability" - I didn't experience anything mentioned in that category. Also from my research there appears to be two situations where it occurs, those when it happens spontaneously such as in my case, and those where it is triggered through the practice of yoga.

 

 

 

There is a description of a personal experience found at http://www.dharma-ha...as/kundrise.htm, overall it sounds far more dramatic than my experience.

 

This quote was interesting;

 

"Often the "main event" of the rising is preceded by a series of "precursor dreams" and by the experience of strong, but unstable energies. The dreams are usually symbolic of the sudden movement of vast energies - such as tidal waves, earthquakes, burning heavens, et cetera"

 

Although my experience was 8 years ago, I remember very vividly having a dream some days beforehand of an enormous tidal wave moving towards me and an intense sense that I was about to die.

 

 

 

It certainly produced a positive change in my thinking. I think it's natural for human thinking to evolve, but this is quite severely hampered by the straight jacket of science, and also because people are generally directed by society to lead lives focussed on seeking an increase in status, personal wealth and material goods. Lives that mainly benefit corporations and feed into people's desire for status, wealth and material goods.

 

We've seen an uprising of the people this year, through the Arab Spring and protests throughout Europe, perhaps one day we will see a movement of spiritual awakening grow and develop throughout society, one that could lead to better solutions for maintaining health, and living positive lives within societies that are for the benefit of all, and don't impact negatively on others.

 

Many think fiat currencies won't survive unless at some point there is a link to Gold. Since politicians don't generally like to admit they are wrong, it may well take a collapse in currencies before such a solution is introduced. If a dramatic event like that happens, if fiat money "dies", it will cause untold poverty across the board. Although, if such a scenario develops it could very well sow the seeds to a new mode of thinking that is needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that interesting post, PD.

 

Can you say anything more about:

 

+ What might have triggered the experience?

 

+ How has it changed you, and your way of thinking?

("My experience included elements of all the above apart from the last category, Psychic ability")

Have you tested your psychic ability? Perhaps it helps in trading.

 

You last paragraph:

 

"Many think fiat currencies won't survive unless at some point there is a link to Gold. Since politicians don't generally like to admit they are wrong, it may well take a collapse in currencies before such a solution is introduced. If a dramatic event like that happens, if fiat money "dies", it will cause untold poverty across the board. Although, if such a scenario develops it could very well sow the seeds to a new mode of thinking that is needed."

 

Is very interesting, since many people in Alternative circles are talking about how an economic collapse, may precede a period of spiritual enlightment. It is fascinating how being wealthy increases you chances of being "caught up in Karma", and interested mainly in holding onto and increasing the wealth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have attended a talk given by the head of that effort (XX)

 

What I heard about was a massively expensive effort, that will take many years before anything can come from it.

Meantime, there are loads of reports of cheaper successful inventions that were bought out and shut down,

or where people were visited by nasty thugs and told not to do any more work.

 

I cannot vouch for the validity of this homemade technology (surely, some of it doesn't work), but I find

it interesting that these reports persist.

As do reports of new perpetual motion machines.

 

E.g remember the Irish one a few years back (magnetic system)?

 

Yep, when scrutinised, it (unfortunately) didn’t work. Indeed, turned out to be a publicity stunt for a marketing company AFAIR.

 

That’s actually worse than those who actually believe they have discovered something important.

 

Of course, nowadays if someone truly believed they had found a new energy source, they would have it known around the world in seconds.

 

Would you be scared off? Tell people you had been scared off? Or just quietly send it around the world to the universities and companies that could look at it (as they indeed do when something looks promising or even interesting.)

 

As for ITER, a potentially limitless, clean energy source, it is costing several of the largest economies about a billion each. Small change really compared with say, bailing out a bank! (or a few hundred wind turbines, which even combined will never produce anywhere near the output of a new fusion reactor). Or, dare I say the Edinburgh tram system (1£B and rising). The potential returns from fusion surely make it an atractive investment as well.

 

Speaking of fusion Power, I see today the UK have just joined the US NIF laser fusion project (the other hot fusion method as opposed to ITER).

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14842720

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many think fiat currencies won't survive unless at some point there is a link to Gold. Since politicians don't generally like to admit they are wrong, it may well take a collapse in currencies before such a solution is introduced. If a dramatic event like that happens, if fiat money "dies", it will cause untold poverty across the board. Although, if such a scenario develops it could very well sow the seeds to a new mode of thinking that is needed.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evnIE-qahI&

 

06:29

 

We get to the level of crisis within two years.

 

06:44

 

there is no way out of this mess

 

07:16

 

Casey: The elephant in the room is China.

 

 

07:30

China is at the peak of a bubble primarily driven by real estate. That Chinese real estate market is a huge accident waiting to happen, bigger than what happened here in the United States. And when that bubble breaks it's going to bring down the Chinese banks and all those prudent Chinese that have been saving 50% of their income are going to wind up with nothing and be really really unhappy. Then what's going to happen?

 

08:45

 

Casey: All of the currencies of the world are likely to be destroyed over the next decade and this is a catastrophe of the first order. This is almost as bad as World War III.

 

09:15

 

It's just starting and my reference to WW3 wasn't just a toss away because when things start getting bad, governments in particular like to blame somebody else. I think we're sitting on a military powder keg around the world too so batten down the hatches.

 

00:10:12

 

Casey: "You need to abolish all these government agencies. You need to cut military spending, not by 20% or 30%. You need to cut it by 90%. You can abolish the income tax. You certainly need to abolish the federal reserve and commodity should be used as money again. The trouble is there's nobody talking about principles, they're all talking about suggestions on the margins. This is serious enough that you've got to talk about basic philosophical principles.

 

00:13:45 Galland

 

"there's actually no hope of a solution"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that interesting post, PD.

 

Can you say anything more about:

 

+ What might have triggered the experience?

 

 

I started a thread in the Fringe section some time ago that alludes to that element of it.

 

+ How has it changed you, and your way of thinking?

("My experience included elements of all the above apart from the last category, Psychic ability")

Have you tested your psychic ability? Perhaps it helps in trading.

 

I think I have a far greater sense of awareness than I had before (eg in terms of the emotions of others) and more developed intuition. It's like the intuition was already there but the experience activated it somehow (?), but that it was only gradually over time that I began to comprehend this.

 

I'm very much more open-minded, that may be a reaction to the fact that to go through an unusual, unknown experience in a sudden way, afterwards is quite shocking, especially when beforehand I was very dismissive of anything that couldn't be explained by logic or reason. To suddenly be forced to try and comprehend an experience you don't understand.

 

In terms of psychic ability I've never really looked into that however I would think that if I had some form of ability in that way I would know about it...

 

You last paragraph:

 

"Many think fiat currencies won't survive unless at some point there is a link to Gold. Since politicians don't generally like to admit they are wrong, it may well take a collapse in currencies before such a solution is introduced. If a dramatic event like that happens, if fiat money "dies", it will cause untold poverty across the board. Although, if such a scenario develops it could very well sow the seeds to a new mode of thinking that is needed."

 

Is very interesting, since many people in Alternative circles are talking about how an economic collapse, may precede a period of spiritual enlightment. It is fascinating how being wealthy increases you chances of being "caught up in Karma", and interested mainly in holding onto and increasing the wealth.

 

Could you point out some links regards the alternative circles? And your last comment regarding wealth, you're referring to a spiritual wealth (?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had started to post this a day or so back, but didn't get to finish at the time. Since then I see the conversation has moved on a huge amount. Two points that I picked up since that was PD's post which I look forward to reading properly when I get a chance, and your reply where you mentioned a scientific education may be obsolete. I think that is why there is such hostility towards fringe topics from those with more conservative views. Science is still relatively new and has achieved a huge amount in 400 years or so, but all this is built on human understanding and could be lost in a generation. Science seems under attack both from old fundamentalist religious ideas and from disillusioned new age views. If there is a widespread growth in consciousness this does not mean the knowledge and understanding we have built up of the physical world need be disgarded.

 

 

 

My question to you is: What will it take to "widen" the filter you use?

If you wait for a really big shock, it may be too late. Cgnao had a function on HPC of delivering periodic shocks that got people to think about other risks. But here his posts function more like cheerleading, spurring on the already-converted to celebrate their gold holdings. That's why I occasionally dispute his posts, which here are a little like "Rocket" images on the Gold thread. They shock no one here, and bring no awakening to the already converted.

 

I don't feel I need to widen the filter, if anything I would be better to focus more on ideas which are relevant and practical to my life at the moment. My goal is to have enough of an awareness of whats going on around me and to react to whatever changes actually do take place, but to spend most of my energy dealing with the world as I see it now. There is certainly a place for preparation, I make the preparations and leave it at that, I certainly would not celebrate when seeing difficulties felt by those who do not.

 

 

The changes coming in our thinking, and in our world, have the promise to blow away "the best laid plans of mice and men" in the financial world. If we do not explore this greater world, then people may find all their efforts in finding better investments suddenly come to nothing - if they wake up one day to discover "there are some risks that Gold cannot hedge", and all the risks they were ignoring prove more important that the ones they were focused upon.

 

I agree with you this far, change is a constant and for a variety of practical reasons the world of the next fifty years will be unable to continue as it has for the last fifty, but for me there are better guides to the greater world than the ones I've seen in this thread. I don't think the world will change physically, but if it does so be it. If a change is happening I think it is people's minds and in society as a whole. For some the changes may be catastrophic, for many they may not even realise they can no longer do things they took for granted now, but looking back in history it may just be another bend in the road. In the past times of major upheaval often seem to be accompanied by apocalyptic thinking. As I said I simply aim to be able to realise what is changing and how, and to react appropriately.

 

 

I mostly listen to podcasts, rather than watch videos.

This keeps my hands free, and I can take them with me o eand listen when I am jogging, or riding the tube... or just doing my research looking at charts or browsing articles.

 

I generally prefer to read than listen or watch videos, mainly because what might take an hour to narrate can usually be read properly in a few minutes and skimmed more quickly again, but also because narrators tend to use Jedi-type mind tricks to make their argument seem more convincing, which usually puts me in a defensive frame of mind or just irritates me. I think David Wilcock in particular is guilty of this.

 

 

If you go the the Fringe section, you will find that a few people are beginning to change their thinking, and respond positively to some of these topics - but not all. It will be a slow process for most. AND THEN, some breakthrough will come, and many more people will see that this is a time of major change, which may be life-threatening for some. I just hope it does not take a catastrophic event to do that - I genuinely thought at the beginning of the year that Earth changes would get people to see the World is changing. I predicted a "tough year for the planet" in my 2011 predictions for FBB, and we have certainly seen that this year. But most people seem to have not allowed this to serious effect their world views. I wonder how far the changes will need to go...?

 

But why do you assume our world view needs to change? The group here is surely on the open minded end of the scale already. I do hate talk about sheeple, and the assumption from some groups that they can see so much better than the population as a whole, but I do suspect that people here more than elsewhere will change their world view if and when it becomes necessary.

 

You seem to believe that changes and greater awareness of deeper truths are not what is spreading, only "popular enthusiasm" is growing - without a genuine understanding driving that popularity.

 

As I mentioned I do think there may be a widespread change in people's thinking, but I think it is better developed in cognitive science for example than in what I've seen of these fringe groups. My readings in this area are still very limited but my instinct is that here I can get a more complete picture, and have more hope of finding practical applications of what I learn.

 

Funnily enough, commercial interests appear to want to block the increasing interest on the Fringe. Military contractors do not want to see people challenge military spending. Drug companies do not want you to know your can find cheaper remedies, or avoid sickness altogether by eating the right diet. Monsanto does not want people sharing perennial seeds, when they can sell seeds that are good for only one season.

 

Most of the people presenting these ideas on the Fringe, are not getting rich from them - they are just trying to spread the truth - and many are locked into near-poverty conditions, or are fortunate enough to have a pension or other assets to live off.

 

Bob Dean discusses this ...

"A millionaire? I lost my shirt doing this... I have nothing to sell."

 

(Note: Wilcock is younger, has no military pension to fall back upon, and needs to make a living somehow. Still, many criticise him for being too promotional, and seem to be disturbed by the fact that he obviously thrives on the attention he is getting. Is that a bad thing? Would he give so much if he did not like the attention?)

 

I don't think they are are frauds or looking to get rich quick, but they do not draw a clear distinction between spiritual experiences and physical reality. What they say seems based around some core truths, but for me there are better explanations from more established religions that have struggled with similar questions for centuries.

 

Project Camelot's videos with people like: Bob Dean, David Wilcock, Pete Peterson and others were very influential in getting me to take these topics more seriously. Later, I moved on to listen to most of the key public and member interviews on: http://www.VeritasShow.com - as podcasts, they were more accessible.

 

 

Finally, I would like to get you to reconsider your comment that "90% of the ideas do appear to be nonsense." Think deeply about why you accept 10%, and reject 90%. What assumptions are you making? And what assumptions would you need to shift your acceptance level to 20%? 30%? Or higher?

 

I've checked some videos on Camelot, skimmed David Wilcock's, and listened to most of Bob Dean. They are interesting, sometimes entertaining but not important to me right now. When they try to clothe their ideas in supporting scientific theories or try to reject good science is when they lose me. There are quite a few useful links coming through on this thread though.

 

 

I couldn't describe all the assumptions I make when I decide if something is worth taking the time to investigatte, but I'm reasonably well educated, and am comfortable and confident in my spirituality, so I'm happy to work with whatever bag of assumptions that gives me. I'm well aware that this puts me in a minority on a global scale, I could just as easily have been brought up on creationism instead of science, or barely educated at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Mercury.

 

Another fine and thoughtful post.

It deserves a longer response than I have time to make right now.

 

Just one point: I see science and the scientific method as a very useful tool, but not a master or a suitable religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A scientist looks at 911 :

 

book-wood.jpg : Customer Reviews of the book on Amazon

 

Dr Judy Wood is a former university professor with essential and relevant background to examine the destruction of the Towers at the World Trade Center. She has conducted an independent investigation, and her work raises many troubling questions.

 

Principally, what happened to the towers?

How did they "dustify" into micro and nano-particles, without leaving behind massive depris?

Did the towers come down faster than was scientifically possible? Or did they turn into dust on the spot?

Why wasn't the site superhot from the other supposed explanations?

 

Dr Judy Wood interviewed by Mel Fabregas on Veritas

 

MP3 : http://radio.veritasshow.com/VS-110909-jwood-j3w-low.mp3

 

This interview jumps around a bit and is a little hard to follow, because it is the third in a series, and they seem to assume that listeners have heard the previous two.

 

I liked the comment from one of the first-responder survivors:

"We looked up and saw blue sky above us. And asked: 'What happened to 100 floors of Tower above us?'"

 

Link: http://www.veritasshow.com/guests/2011/09sep/VS-110909-jwood.php

 

On this tenth anniversary of 9/11, Dr. Wood returns to Veritas to discuss the book’s reception thus far, and her hopes for the future.

 

“I’d like to empower the reader to understand what happened. I want them to trust themselves, their own judgment, rather than what they’ve heard.” Of course, one has to read the book. Those that do often return to buy another five or so, she says.

 

During this discussion we hear a recording of Governor Jesse Ventura lauding Dr. Wood’s work to a skeptical Alex Jones. “It was some sort of microwave weapon. It wasn’t a controlled demolition.” We hear a recording of self-proclaimed 40-year hurricane expert Geraldo Rivera say, “Too bad there wasn’t a hurricane on 9/11.”

 

Ah, but there was a hurricane on 9/11. The public was never warned. Nor were pilots.

 

On 9/11/2001, a category-three Hurricane Erin stood menacingly off the shore of Long Island and Cape Cod for four days, Woods explains. Just after the towers disintegrated, it made a 90-degree turn away from the continent.

 

Free energy weaponry apparently requires a highly-charged, controlled atmosphere.

 

Wood laments that the truth movement has been derailed by distracting misinformation alluding to controlled demolition, radiation, bombs, thermite, molten metals, and more.

 

She says that surviving recordings reveal silence during the demise of the buildings. “The towers did not burn up, nor did they slam to the ground. They turned to dust in mid-air.”

 

She mentions that there is no evidence any steel, or other tower remains, was shipped off to China.

 

Toasted cars blocks away, spontaneous combustion, papers flying while solids “dustified…” Wood’s 800-pages of findings beg to be read. And bring on the skeptics.

 

“Just look at my book. There is no denying the evidence of directed, free-energy technology. This technology is not a secret anymore. Think of what knowing this will change.”

 

So far no one has disputed any of the evidence presented in her book.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A scientist looks at 911 :

book-wood.jpg : Customer Reviews of the book on Amazon

EXCERPT of Customer Review from J. Moore "Yogi" (San Diego, CA)

What many of us have only guessed at--"Isn't that debris pile too small?!"--the brilliant Dr. Wood proves beyond a shadow of doubt: The Twin Towers never hit the ground!

 

In her elegant 500-page text book, Dr. Judy Wood guides us through all anomalous phenomena of the WTC complex, focusing solely on "what happened" that morning, in a careful consideration of all observable physical/photographic evidence--after effects including seismic signals, magnetometer readings, unto the virtually unknown Category 3 hurricane off the eastern seaboard that very morning. She shows us the direct correlation of this startling evidence as it mirrors The Hutchison Effect--energy-field effects born out of the early 20th century scientist Nikola Tesla's experiments and inventions--discoveries of a free-energy, not kinetic, activated via interferometry: the interference of various beams, energy fields, or electromagnetic waves. Dr. Wood resurrects to his rightful place Nikola Tesla, the true father of alternating current, wireless communication, and the rotating magnetic field. Though Dr. Wood does not name the exact device responsible as the mechanism of destruction on 9/11, she expertly delineates "the extraordinary effects that can result from electromagnetic interference."

 

/more: http://www.amazon.com/Towers-Evidence-Directed-Free-energy-Technology/product-reviews/0615412564/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

(In the interests of presenting both sides, here's a critical review):

 

Judy Woods Ignores the Evidence, July 9, 2011 (note how debunkers are fond of misspelling)

/ By Robert L. Baker :

Dr. Woods seems to ignore considerable evidence of explosions in favor so some whacko theory about space based weapons, HAARP etc. All you need to know about Dr. Judy Woods can be found in a very brief but revealing interview. Go to google video and search for "Dr. Greg Jenkins Interviews Dr. Judy Wood"

 

==== ==== ====

 

INSPIRATION ...from the end of Mel's interview : The Wayseers song

 

 

I reckon we need both Wayseers and Scientists on GEI.

Wouldn't it be great if they could look for common ground, and engage in a respectful dialog,

rather than trying to anihalate each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THE UNSCIENTIFIC WORK of Scientists ... (when we see it) is often just a battle of egos, or a payday for someone.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dl8CHF-Dho

 

In this video I question Richard Gage in Rotterdam on 24-6-2011 about Judy Wood's DEW hypothesis. What struck me most is his last words in answering my question.

 

Richard Gage is a respected, if not the most respected researcher of the 9/11 attacks and founder of AE911Truth. His work supports the hypothesis that the towers were brought down by explosives. This presentation summarizes his work:

 

 

Judy Wood on the other hand is another great researcher. Her observations support the hypothesis of a so called directed energy weapon. Here's her presentation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGsuzNmfdOI

 

Gage does not include Wood's work in his research, all though her observations are very clear and need to be included in the investigation. Gage is sure that the work of Wood denies his evidence. My personal opinion is that's not the case.

 

This is the response of AE911Truth to Wood:

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/505-ae911truth-faq-6-wh...

 

"Truth is the daughter of time, not of authority." - Sir Francis Bacon

 

==== ==== ====

 

Ultimately, if you want Truth, you may have to do your own work, as this comment reminds us:

 

Be careful of following large 9/11 Truth organizations. Read the research on 9/11 from all the researchers, including Dr. Judy Wood. Take the information you researched and make an informed judgement. Too often, I find truthers parroting what the big 9/11 Truth organizations are putting out and not taking time to do their own research. I use to belong to all the big 9/11 truth organizations and I left everyone of them to be an independent 9/11 Truth researcher. Dr Judy Wood research is real.

 

nausmr 1 hour ago (on the above Youtube Video)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Experience, religion, intuition and tradition are merely amateur attempts at providing explanations/theories about the world.

Once you become a bit more intellectually rigorous and intellectually honest, you end up with the scientific method. This doesn't mean that scientists are saints. I know plenty, most of their work is a joke and nothing more than an exercise in staying employed and getting grant money. But they're not the real practitioners of science, just people that work in academia doing cargo-cult science. The public (and funding bodies) is too ignorant to tell the difference.

 

You may think that I'm dismissing experience, religion, intuition - and you're right.

At best, these nothing more than a stepping stone for exploring an interesting phenomenon in a more rigorous fashion with the best tool humans have - the scientific method.

"In my experience, the world appears flat. Therefore it is."

Surely not.

This thread is polarized. One is either all for science and only science.... or one is anti-science, and all for alternatives. I'd ask why it has to be either/ or.

 

Science is science, philosophy is philosophy, religion is religion, and whackoism is whackoism... everything is what it is, and not another thing.. Once the distinctions are drawn, and the particular approach of each defined, there is no problem.... or polarization. The problem seems to be arising from narrow-mindedness, where one sphere has to gobble up all the others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is very interesting, since many people in Alternative circles are talking about how an economic collapse, may precede a period of spiritual enlightment. It is fascinating how being wealthy increases you chances of being "caught up in Karma", and interested mainly in holding onto and increasing the wealth.

Not sure about collapse, but a good old-fashioned extended depression will do wonders for the moral character of the nations. Good bye to decadent consumerism and all that,. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, from the initial video in the opening post, this caught my eye.

 

 

"Group Meditation Reduces Terrorism"

 

"A new book by U.S. Army Col. Brian Rees entitled "Terrorism, Retaliation and Victory: Awaken the Soul of America to Defeat Terrorism Without Casualties" discusses a study published in the Journal of Offender Rehabilitation showing 72% reduction in international terrorism using Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Invincible Defense Technology. The remarkable findings show that large groups of peace-creating meditation experts decrease international conflicts, including deaths and injuries due to terrorism. The study reports that group practice of the Transcendental Meditation™ and TM-Sidhi program by 7,000 people decreases terrorism and international conflicts worldwide.

 

On three different occasions during 1983-1995, groups of approximately 7,000 meditators were formed for periods lasting from 8 to 11 days, twice in the United States and once in Holland. The effects were studied using terrorism data collected completely independently by the Rand Corporation, the renowned California think tank. Five days after the assemblies started, terrorist activities in the world calmed down, the study reports. The study also found that warfare due to national and international conflicts decreased by approximately 30%. Assessment of the effects on warfare came from reports appearing in the New York Times and London Times."

 

 

 

 

There may well be a science to this, but since it can't be explained by science, it can't be framed by science, therefore most scientist's first instinct would be to try and disprove it, rather than prove it.

 

 

 

 

Prem Rawat is someone doing invaluable work to bring a message of peace, seeking to bring about a change in thinking throughout the world. The world needs more like him.

 

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyoOu4L-Wlk

 

 

more on Prem Rawat at http://maharaji.net/index.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excuse me for having an opinion different from YOURS !

 

I think I would say:

YOU are the one who has failed to: "hypothesise, test, record, evaluate" the available vast amount of material on these subjects.

 

You refuse to look at the evidence - and you know next to nothing of the subject. While I have spent countless hours examining the anecdotal evidence through various interviews and podcasts available on the web.

 

Do you claim to be more of an "expert"? :

That's funny, you are one who knows next to nothing on the subject, and you think that refusing to examine any of it makes you an "expert on logic" or some such nonsense. This exhibits the worst sort of blindness and stubborness.

 

Also: you have failed to muster a single point in favor of your argument, as I have requested you to do.

 

Why waste your time (and ours) posting on the thread, when you clearly have no interest in advancing the discussion?

 

I have not only read the article I have also read many others, one of the first I ever read back in 70’s was Daniken’s ‘Gods from Outer Space’, it got me interested in many things. I found out later that it like most of this type of material was based on a few facts surround by unsubstantiated ‘what ifs’, misdirection’s and outright lies that the author had to be aware of in order to write the book or article.

 

Your assumption – I haven’t read the material – Wrong

Your assumption – I know nothing of the subject – Wrong

Your belief that I am not advancing the discussion on the thread – Wrong, it’s just not what you wish to hear

 

My advancement to the thread is not about the points in the article but about points in the thread brought up by WiseBear on the article being ‘Total rubbish’ and JD’s on scientific and philosophical theories. It advances these points but not yours, it is detrimental to your belief in the validity of the article and so you deride it.

 

You have always asked for lurkers to be more active and that posters than have gone away to return and tell you why. I did and I have, you disliked it with venom and responded to polite thread conversation with hostility.

 

What’s next, if posters do not follow your belief then they get banned like the anti-gold believers did in HPC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, from the initial video in the opening post, this caught my eye.

 

"A new book by U.S. Army Col. Brian Rees entitled "Terrorism, Retaliation and Victory: Awaken the Soul of America to Defeat Terrorism Without Casualties" discusses a study published in the Journal of Offender Rehabilitation showing 72% reduction in international terrorism using Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Invincible Defense Technology. The remarkable findings show that large groups of peace-creating meditation experts decrease international conflicts, including deaths and injuries due to terrorism.

I wonder if it can also work against "False Flag" incidents

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not only read the article I have also read many others, one of the first I ever read back in 70’s was Daniken’s ‘Gods from Outer Space’, it got me interested in many things. I found out later that it like most of this type of material was based on a few facts surround by unsubstantiated ‘what ifs’, misdirection’s and outright lies that the author had to be aware of in order to write the book or article.

 

Your assumption – I haven’t read the material – Wrong

Your assumption – I know nothing of the subject – Wrong

Your belief that I am not advancing the discussion on the thread – Wrong, it’s just not what you wish to hear

 

My advancement to the thread is not about the points in the article but about points in the thread brought up by WiseBear on the article being ‘Total rubbish’ and JD’s on scientific and philosophical theories. It advances these points but not yours, it is detrimental to your belief in the validity of the article and so you deride it.

 

You have always asked for lurkers to be more active and that posters than have gone away to return and tell you why. I did and I have, you disliked it with venom and responded to polite thread conversation with hostility.

 

What’s next, if posters do not follow your belief then they get banned like the anti-gold believers did in HPC.

 

After trying to add some checks and balance (sanity and realism) to this thread, I have, reluctantly, come to the conclusion that you, and others like you, are wasting your time.

 

I refer you to a post (probably the most profound and insightful post on this thread) made at the beggining of this thread. :rolleyes:

 

You would be wasting your time WiseBear, they cannot understand the difference between a scientific theory and a philosophical theory, empirical data or logic means nothing to them and they just create another philosophical idea to ameliorate the empirical or logical, that philosophical idea then becomes a truth to them. You are arguing against belief.

 

This dogmatic following of belief is the reason that I rarely post here. I lurk occasionally for the few financial posts that remain, picking up the odd tip and occasionally dipping in the posts on current affairs. Originally like others I came from HPC following Bubb, CG, GF, etc to get a better understanding of finance, its implications and how I should protect myself financially. I learnt how to begin to do that on this site and I thank all for that education.

 

It’s Bubb’s site, it’s his playground and if he wants to turn it into a conspiracy site because that is his religion then so be it and those that are here for finance will continue to drift away.

 

This worries me too and I know of people that I have directed to this site that find it hard to take it seriously. This is a real shame as there is a vast amount of useful info and discussion disseminated here.

 

May I suggest, for those that feel this way, that you look on No.6's thread (and others on the blog board), as that is a "non-fringe" investment area (at present).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John why are you trying to hold back the tide

 

Peace, why are you trying to push it in? :rolleyes:

 

 

Perhaps it is because this board is seen by many as an investment board, not the fringe board.

 

Like it or not, many of the points on this thread are not scientific, not mainstream, not really anything to do with investment and are, therefore, better discussed on the fringe board.

 

 

Prediction is hard, especially about the future.
Neils Bhor.

 

I wonder if those that believe all these way out, nonsense (non-science?) predictions about major changes in 2012, will actually be big enough to admit they have all been taken for gullible fools once 2013 arrives and everything hasnt changed?

 

I am guessing, (actually, Im pretty certain) that, just like all those that told us the same thing before the millennium, (and at multiple points throughout history) they will just quietly disappear and move onto the next mumbo jumbo train.

 

I would love to be proved wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×