Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Arn

Wind Turbine investment

Recommended Posts

This to me creates a win win situation

 

Farmer small cash flow now (even repaying their capital investment in Year 1)

Investor/Fund rasier in years 0-10

Society - cleaner energy

 

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/05/news/compa...sion=2007090511

 

I could even securitse the income to secure the debt in a Tax Friendly way:-)

 

Negatives to manage: -

Maintenance bills

Length of service

Planning Permission

Rate at which electricity sold back to the grid (don't want to see prices drop below the needed cash flow requirement here)

 

Arn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all depends on how the equipment holds up, and cost of maintenance. I'd be wanting to see maintenance costs for similar existing equipment on a year by year basis over a twenty to thirty year period - possibly difficult to get hold of.

 

A lot of industrial equipment is written off after 10 years, or less, even with regular maintenance. Sounds like the subscribers could be lumbered with the equipment just as it becomes an expensive liability, and would also be liable for decommissioning failed turbines. During this time, they'll also be paying back on a pretty massive loan, though this could be reduced, the initial stake looks like chicken feed at $10k. Interesting business model, though.

 

TLM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are independent consultants you can hire to check assumptions.

 

Largest one is: Garrard Hassan, I believe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.spiegel.de/international/german...,500902,00.html

WUTHERING HEIGHTS The Dangers of Wind Power

By Simone Kaiser and Michael Fröhlingsdorf

Wind turbines continue to multiply the world over. But as they grow bigger and bigger, the number of dangerous accidents is climbing. How safe is wind energy?

It came without warning. A sudden gust of wind ripped the tip off of the rotor blade.............more

and dont forget to look through the photos - we're not talking about camerons toy windmill here!

oh, and dont forget you'll be dependendant on subsideis for profit which could be removed at a stroke; also if its at all profitable you'll be taxed until its barely profitabel

insurers regard it as a risky sector, i note

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.spiegel.de/international/german...,500902,00.html

WUTHERING HEIGHTS The Dangers of Wind Power

By Simone Kaiser and Michael Fröhlingsdorf

Wind turbines continue to multiply the world over. But as they grow bigger and bigger, the number of dangerous accidents is climbing. How safe is wind energy?

It came without warning. A sudden gust of wind ripped the tip off of the rotor blade.............more

and dont forget to look through the photos - we're not talking about camerons toy windmill here!

oh, and dont forget you'll be dependendant on subsideis for profit which could be removed at a stroke; also if its at all profitable you'll be taxed until its barely profitabel

insurers regard it as a risky sector, i note

 

 

this is karen carty, i think i replied to you last night, but may have not registered, please go to:

 

www.bluenergy-ag.net

 

look at their Bluenergy SolarWind Turbine....solves many inherent problems with Solar AND Wind, completely next generation, please see my topic

Next Generation SolarWind Co. seeks Investor/s.

 

I am representing them for investor/s, please email me at:

 

karencarty@aol.com for much further info.

 

thanks

 

karen carty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

more windy woes!

http://www.theherald.co.uk/search/display....er_collapse.php

Three wind farms shut after collapse DAMIEN HENDERSON November 12 2007

Engineers were working over the weekend to investigate the collapse of a wind turbine which led to three Scottish wind farms being shut.

The 200ft turbine at the Beinn an Tuirc wind farm in Argyll and Bute "bent in half" during heavy winds last week............................................more i wonder if they were insured?

just as well it didnt happen when this occurred!

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=145612007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

Set back on FAU's infastructure of the Ocean Energy project till February 08'. Even though experimental only, apparently regulatory problems over jurisdiction. Go figure.

 

Our small but scalable watermill prototype is now completed.

 

Estimated 300 to 350 lbs of power at 35 to 40 rpm in a 5 knot current.

 

How do we test this design to see what RPM provides the greater power? I'm of the understanding that with increased resistance, the amount of the power should increase to a certain level. Much like testing the horsepower of a combustion engine. In this case, we would be trying to determine the greatest torque at the most efficient RPM.

 

I'm not an engineer so I hope I stated that correctly.

 

I'm still just under a provisional patent and under capitalized so I've been reluctant to speak to very many people about the specific design.

 

We'll be able to attach what every mechanism that we decide upon to a direct drive from the watermill so any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Skip Robinson

Enless Energy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Skiprob, So what’s happened with the super efficient windmill you invented on the other thread, and has it morphed into a water powered device?

 

Anyway, if you're spending money on this some cautions are in order. “Not being an engineer” is fine, but you need to learn the differences between forces/moments, speed, and power, and even then it would be good idea to build a small scale model and measure the performance. At least you'd get some idea of whether the general concept was a runner or not.

 

Tech stuff: if it has a rotary output, measure the Torque and RPM for a range of different rotational speeds while keeping the water flow constant - the power is proportional to Torque * RPM, although you’ll need to do a bit of scaling to get the units properly consistent. You'd characterise the system with two graphs: the Torque versus RPM curve, and the Power versus RPM curve; the Torque curve will typically start high and fall as the RPM is increased; the Power curve will start low, have a peak somewhere in the middle, and then fall away again. Ideally, you'd choose to operate the device at an RPM close to the maximum power point. The efficiency is given by the power measured on the shaft (see above) as a proportion of the power available in the water flow, usually something like 0.5 * water_density * swept_area * flow_speed _cubed and expressed in the appropriately consistent units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.spiegel.de/international/german...,500902,00.html

WUTHERING HEIGHTS The Dangers of Wind Power

By Simone Kaiser and Michael Fröhlingsdorf

Wind turbines continue to multiply the world over. But as they grow bigger and bigger, the number of dangerous accidents is climbing. How safe is wind energy?

It came without warning. A sudden gust of wind ripped the tip off of the rotor blade.............more

and dont forget to look through the photos - we're not talking about camerons toy windmill here!

oh, and dont forget you'll be dependendant on subsideis for profit which could be removed at a stroke; also if its at all profitable you'll be taxed until its barely profitabel

insurers regard it as a risky sector, i note

 

All those 19,000 wind turbines in Germany - which have in many cases spoiled what were once beautiful, still highland scenes far from motorways and air routes - only generate just 5% of Germany's electricity. This is at some expense to the effectiveness of the installed plant, which has to be compromised to make way for the wind turbines when the wind conditions are actually right. I doubt they have made any net contribution to the economy of Germany.

 

For large scale base load wind turbines are a con, they are a false market created by subsidy by a political class that don't have the guts to say a) sorry you have to use less power, and b ) we need more nuclear. Wind turbines look impressive and when they spring up all over the place they create nice warm feelings that something is being done when in fact it is not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Spline,

I'm not spending very much money. A couple of thousand so far. But I have to try. I morphed to the watermill because of the unexpected opportunity with FAU in addition to less engineering costs to built a prototype that is scalable. The windmill is going to require some technical hydraulics enginneering that I do not have the money for. I've stopped trying to raise any money nor have I excepted any money until such time as I believe I have something worth investing in. I've been involved in the financial markets to long as an investment banker, mtg broker and currency trader and I don't like scams. I have a couple of friends who are waiting for me to tell them when I'm ready for investment capital.

 

I have a couple of engineers who are following my progress so I have some "unpaid" expertize at my disposal.

 

No one as of yet has given me the specifics of how to test this thing. Not one single lead. The 350 +/- lbs of force at 5 knots at 38+/- rpm are calculations by one of the engineers using a formula from a engineering book and my son & I for the estimated rpm with a guess at the resistance. I've used aerodynamic tubing to decrease drag. rounded edges, etc. But truly a guess.

 

I'm really reluctant about showing pictures over a large international blog like this due to the level of differentials in design of other U.S. patents.

 

We've even contemplating putting the watermill on a dock in the inlet, since the FAU setback. Probably less RPM but as the tide goes in and out we will be able to test at different current speeds which I see as an actual plus.

 

If there is anyone out there who has an inexpesive way to test this thing please call or e-mail

 

Skip Robinson

561-691-9870 and skiprob@comcast.net

 

 

Hi Skiprob, So what’s happened with the super efficient windmill you invented on the other thread, and has it morphed into a water powered device?

 

Anyway, if you're spending money on this some cautions are in order. “Not being an engineer” is fine, but you need to learn the differences between forces/moments, speed, and power, and even then it would be good idea to build a small scale model and measure the performance. At least you'd get some idea of whether the general concept was a runner or not.

 

Tech stuff: if it has a rotary output, measure the Torque and RPM for a range of different rotational speeds while keeping the water flow constant - the power is proportional to Torque * RPM, although you’ll need to do a bit of scaling to get the units properly consistent. You'd characterize the system with two graphs: the Torque versus RPM curve, and the Power versus RPM curve; the Torque curve will typically start high and fall as the RPM is increased; the Power curve will start low, have a peak somewhere in the middle, and then fall away again. Ideally, you'd choose to operate the device at an RPM close to the maximum power point. The efficiency is given by the power measured on the shaft (see above) as a proportion of the power available in the water flow, usually something like 0.5 * water_density * swept_area * flow_speed _cubed and expressed in the appropriately consistent units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Skipbob,

The testing is slightly involved and probably best done with one of your engineering mates. You’ll probably need to beg, buy, or borrow some sort of rotary torque transducer (something like one of these, but obviously depending a lot on your setup) that can measure the torque applied to a shaft and it’s rotational speed – then you connect some sort of brake via the torque transducer to the output of your device and set everything going.

 

Keep the flow velocity constant and measure pairs of torque and speed at various settings of the brake, i.e. at various rotary speeds of the device, and plot the graph of torque versus RPM. Then plot another graph with torque multiplied by RPM versus RPM – this is proportional to the power output and will have a peak somewhere in the middle; that’s the best operating point, i.e. maximum power for that particular flow speed. You’ll also need to convert from RPM * ft-lbs into your favourite power unit, kW, HP, etc. You would repeat the exercise at different flow speeds to build up a set of performance graphs.

 

Another way of testing is to load the device with an electrical generator and resistive load - generally the voltage will be proportional to the RPM and the torgue to the current, so that mechanical power (torque times RPM) transmitted along the shaft roughly tracks the electrical power (volts times current) coming out coming out of the generator. This sort of test is easier to set up and do, but more tricky to interpret as some power usually gets 'lost' in various places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Spline,

Thank you for your input.

Another Gentleman who works for a major dyno retailer hear in the U.S. mentions the torque transducer. I'll be meeting with Florida Atlanitc University hopefully next week to discuss various ideas in relation to testing. One of their sales reps also mentioned adapting a dyno is some manner. Your information will surely assist in giving them some idea of what needs to be done. I want them to pay for the testing and a torque transducer sounds like a good method. The mission statement of their project is to assist and test prototypes. They have not seen the prototype yet so it will be interesting to get their reaction. They've only seen the very small wind model. The water prototype is much more interesting from an engineering standpoint due to size. I'll let you know what transpires at the meeting.

 

Thank you again.

 

Skip Robinson

 

 

Hi Skipbob,

The testing is slightly involved and probably best done with one of your engineering mates. You’ll probably need to beg, buy, or borrow some sort of rotary torque transducer (something like one of these, but obviously depending a lot on your setup) that can measure the torque applied to a shaft and it’s rotational speed – then you connect some sort of brake via the torque transducer to the output of your device and set everything going.

 

Keep the flow velocity constant and measure pairs of torque and speed at various settings of the brake, i.e. at various rotary speeds of the device, and plot the graph of torque versus RPM. Then plot another graph with torque multiplied by RPM versus RPM – this is proportional to the power output and will have a peak somewhere in the middle; that’s the best operating point, i.e. maximum power for that particular flow speed. You’ll also need to convert from RPM * ft-lbs into your favourite power unit, kW, HP, etc. You would repeat the exercise at different flow speeds to build up a set of performance graphs.

 

Another way of testing is to load the device with an electrical generator and resistive load - generally the voltage will be proportional to the RPM and the torgue to the current, so that mechanical power (torque times RPM) transmitted along the shaft roughly tracks the electrical power (volts times current) coming out coming out of the generator. This sort of test is easier to set up and do, but more tricky to interpret as some power usually gets 'lost' in various places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×