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I didnt know this :blink:

 

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Philip_Rothschild

 

Nathaniel Philip Victor James Rothschild, born July 12, 1971, is a British financier who is Co-Chairman of Atticus Capital LLC, a 2004 Young Global Leader, and a member of the prominent Rothschild banking family of England.

 

He is the youngest of four children and only son of Jacob Rothschild, 4th Baron Rothschild and Serena Mary Dunn, whose grandfather was the Canadian financier and industrialist, Sir James Dunn. He was educated at Eton and Wadham College, Oxford. He was a member of the Bullingdon Club as an under-graduate.

 

Rothschild began his career in 1994 at Lazard Brothers Asset Management in London, before joining Gleacher Partners, the New York-based mergers and acquisitions (M&A) advisory firm founded by Eric Gleacher, former head of M&A at Morgan Stanley and Lehman Brothers.

 

Rothschild is the co-chairman of Atticus Capital LLC, an international investment management firm established in 1995, that has offices in New York and London. He is also a director of RIT Capital Partners plc, and a director of The Rothschild Foundation. In 2006, he was appointed chairman of Trigranit, a Hungarian developer of which he is a major shareholder.

 

Rothschild is a member of the Belfer Center's International Council at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government and the International Advisory Council of the Brookings Institution. He is also a member of the International Advisory Board of the Barrick Gold Corporation. He was nominated as a "Young Global Leader" by the World Economic Forum in 2005

 

 

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I didnt know this :blink:

 

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathaniel_Philip_Rothschild

 

Nathaniel Philip Victor James Rothschild, born July 12, 1971, is a British financier who is Co-Chairman of Atticus Capital LLC, a 2004 Young Global Leader, and a member of the prominent Rothschild banking family of England.

 

He is the youngest of four children and only son of Jacob Rothschild, 4th Baron Rothschild and Serena Mary Dunn, whose grandfather was the Canadian financier and industrialist, Sir James Dunn. He was educated at Eton and Wadham College, Oxford. He was a member of the Bullingdon Club as an under-graduate.

 

Rothschild began his career in 1994 at Lazard Brothers Asset Management in London, before joining Gleacher Partners, the New York-based mergers and acquisitions (M&A) advisory firm founded by Eric Gleacher, former head of M&A at Morgan Stanley and Lehman Brothers.

 

Rothschild is the co-chairman of Atticus Capital LLC, an international investment management firm established in 1995, that has offices in New York and London. He is also a director of RIT Capital Partners plc, and a director of The Rothschild Foundation. In 2006, he was appointed chairman of Trigranit, a Hungarian developer of which he is a major shareholder.

 

Rothschild is a member of the Belfer Center's International Council at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government and the International Advisory Council of the Brookings Institution. He is also a member of the International Advisory Board of the Barrick Gold Corporation. He was nominated as a "Young Global Leader" by the World Economic Forum in 2005

...and?

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Well, I've been having some 'fun' creating charts using a spreadsheet!

 

Here's my Moving Average chart:

 

 

 

And here's my Bollinger Band chart:

 

 

 

All I have to do is figure out how to interpret them in such a way as to buy and sell at the right time! :lol:

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Silver up 1.5% today and then there is this brewing up...

 

Silver Shortage gets Worse, Price Drops Again!

 

Three more major silver dealers are reported to be out of silver today: The U.S. Mint, Kitco, and Monex. This, on top of the major dealers yesterday, Amark, Perth Mint, CNI Numismatics, and APMEX, all reported sold out. Further, nearly all of Canada is reported to be out of silver, from Vancouver to Toronto.

 

This is unprecedented, and is a perfect case of market manipulation in the paper market at COMEX and other futures exchanges to see silver prices continue to drop down to below $17/oz. today. Paper promises can be created endlessly, but real silver cannot.

 

This is NOT a case of the dealers getting spooked, and selling out to the refiners just in time, at peak prices. This is a case of the public buying up the stock at coin shops across the world ever since gold hit $1000/oz.. That event finally sparked a little of the public's buying of silver and gold. Thus, the typical coin shop flow of silver to the refiners just stopped in the last few weeks, and especially the last two days.

 

This is NOT a case of the public creating a top with 'everyone' in silver, because nobody's in silver yet. In 2006, only $1 billion was spent on investment silver, which is 0.007% of the $13.5 trillion of money in the banks. As I have long reported, the silver market is so small, there is no room for new investor demand, not even 0.1% of money could be spent on silver, because that would be $13 billion, which would push silver prices to $200/oz., and we are seeing only the tiniest beginnings of that.

 

CONTINUE >>>

 

"This message has been placed on KITCO's buying board in large red letters. TT

 

IMPORTANT: Due to the volatility of the market, we are experiencing a significant increase in the volume of products that are being sold to Kitco. Although Kitco and HSBC Bank are working hard to stay on top of this, you may experience a delay in your package being processed. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, and appreciate your patience and understanding."

 

bulliondirect says:

 

High Activity Market Alert

The precious metals industry is experiencing a substantial surge in activity which may increase the possibility of logistical delays; including customer service response time and product processing (incoming and outgoing). Our goal is to keep our prices competitive while still delivering an exceptional transaction experience.

 

:o:D:lol:

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OK I am now ready to buy my first coins. I do not really know whether it will be gold and/or silver and which ones. For that, I still have a few questions and I was hoping you may be able to help on that.

I have been through the whole thread already finding out about it a bit more and got quite a few tips already especially from ConvertedGoldBug who was asking many relevant questions.

 

1-Someone mentioned an allowance for CGT of £9300, is that an allowance for gold and/or silver or all my investments?

 

2-On the delivery side, I am not confident in getting my coins deliveries at home to be honest. Can you get the first delivery at work for instance. What do you usually do?

 

3-Did you add your physical PM as part of your contents insurance? Is it expensive? Is it worth it?

 

4-I always hear about the same coins: sovereigns, britannias, maples, eagles and krugs. Why are you only mentioning these ones? What makes them so valuable to you? What about the Napoleon or Wilhelm ones for example? How do you make your choice? Do you tend to buy more of the ones from the country you live in?

 

5-I noticed that the silver eagle 1oz 2007 is slightly cheaper than the 2008 one. Does that mean my coins may lose value every year after a new version is printed?

 

6-I read that the krugs are the most common ones therefore easier to sell and cheaper. Well, I just had a look on COININVESTDIRECT and the krugs are at $976 against $967 for the maples and eagles so not quite true then...?

 

7-What makes you buy coins rather than bullion (some 1oz are available)? What if some specific coins get depreciated? Do you think coins tend to gain more value over time or is it simply for the joy of owning a specific coin like you own a nice stamp?

 

I think that's it. I cannot think of anything else for now :rolleyes:

Many thanks in advance.

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Woo! I'm on a roll now! ;)

 

Here are the silver versions of the gold charts I posted above, Moving Averages first:

 

post-1176-1206135268_thumb.jpg

 

And Bollinger:

 

 

 

The Bollinger ones are still a bit of a mystery (I clearly have some reading to do about interpreting Bollinger Bands), but something I did find interesting was, despite the difference is size of 'correction' of gold and silver, how similar the movement of gold and silver prices are with respect to their moving averages: both seem to have corrected to just below their 50-day moving average.

 

Sorry if this is Noddy Makes His First Charts, but it's interesting to discover this sort of thing the long-winded way via calculating my own charts... :P

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Sign Of More Market Trouble: S&P Downgrades Goldman Sachs (GS) And Lehman (LEH)

After a week in which the market finally seemed to vote that big financial companies will be OK, S&P took the holiday to slam Goldman Sachs (NYSE:GS) and Lehman Brothers (NYSE:LEH). No one was even on the floor of the NYSE to react.

 

According to Reuters S&P revised its outlook to "negative" from "stable" on Goldman's "AA-minus" and Lehman's "A-plus" long-term credit ratings, suggesting a possible downgrade in one to two years.

 

If the call is proactive, the agency obviously believes that a great deal more bad news lies ahead in falling revenue and further write-offs.

 

The market open next week just gained a bit of drama.

http://www.247wallst.com/2008/03/sign-of-more-ma.html

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1-Someone mentioned an allowance for CGT of £9300, is that an allowance for gold and/or silver or all my investments?

 

All Investments

 

3-Did you add your physical PM as part of your contents insurance? Is it expensive? Is it worth it?

 

Sort of - Tried to with Hiscox, but they would not/could not insure for anything reasonable at the end. M&S Home Insurance is unlimited though so have gone with them. Have not declared PMs as high value items to them as individually none of my coins or coin sets are £4k or more and they are not a collection (as per M&S terms) Just ensure you have proved ownership. Also it could be prudent to spread the stash using safety deposit boxes which come with their own insurance.

 

4-I always hear about the same coins: sovereigns, britannias, maples, eagles and krugs. Why are you only mentioning these ones? What makes them so valuable to you? What about the Napoleon or Wilhelm ones for example? How do you make your choice? Do you tend to buy more of the ones from the country you live in?

 

Yes - Sovereigns are best bet for UK due to lowest premium for CGT exempt coins. Possible to go for Napoleons, etc but harder to sell in UK IMHO and you'll get less due to lower demand.

 

5-I noticed that the silver eagle 1oz 2007 is slightly cheaper than the 2008 one. Does that mean my coins may lose value every year after a new version is printed?

 

First rule - Try to minimise the premium you pay. Due to increasing metal prices, the mints inflate their prices so you get this sort of situation.

 

6-I read that the krugs are the most common ones therefore easier to sell and cheaper. Well, I just had a look on COININVESTDIRECT and the krugs are at $976 against $967 for the maples and eagles so not quite true then...?

 

So in this case, stock up on the others :) If I spot Britannias or Pandas for only a bit more than the more 'common' coins I tend to pay the extra for the additional CGT benefits / resale value.

 

7-What makes you buy coins rather than bullion (some 1oz are available)? What if some specific coins get depreciated? Do you think coins tend to gain more value over time or is it simply for the joy of owning a specific coin like you own a nice stamp?

 

More universally accepted. Much easier to fake a bar for some fictictious assayer. Saying that, some of the old Rothschild gold bullion bars have huge premiums due to rarity.

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1-Someone mentioned an allowance for CGT of £9300, is that an allowance for gold and/or silver or all my investments?

 

I don't know the full details about CGT, but I do know that sovereigns and Britannias are exempt from CGT because they are classed as currency coins: legal tender. I think it depends on how much you sell and profit from in one year but others can explain it better and these links give more info. I personally will get round the issue by using friends and family to sell gold for me when it gets to a high enough level so that I do not go over my CGT limit. Also I am not sure that I trust the government will uphold CGT exemption on sovereigns and Britannias should gold become even more valuable, so I only own a small amount of Britannias and sovereigns atm.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/cg4manual/CG78308.htm

 

http://reviews.ebay.com/CGT-Capital-Gains-...000000001593758

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/customsexcise701-21.html

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalW...tyType=document

 

2-On the delivery side, I am not confident in getting my coins deliveries at home to be honest. Can you get the first delivery at work for instance. What do you usually do?

 

I always buy from the shop in person, I enjoy the trip out and it helps to build up some sort of relationship with my bullion dealer, I feel better knowing where the shop is located and the faces of the people I deal with.

 

3-Did you add your physical PM as part of your contents insurance? Is it expensive? Is it worth it?

 

I do not have mine insured, but I do have them stored at a few different safe and secure locations, I probably should get them insured to be honest.

 

4-I always hear about the same coins: sovereigns, britannias, maples, eagles and krugs. Why are you only mentioning these ones? What makes them so valuable to you? What about the Napoleon or Wilhelm ones for example? How do you make your choice? Do you tend to buy more of the ones from the country you live in?

 

The advantage that the well know bullion coins have over less well know coins and buillion bars is that they are easier to sell, the only thing that may be more harder to find than a rare or obscure coin is a buyer for it. People feel more comfortable buying and selling things that they recognize like Kruggers, sovs, maples and eagles.

5-I noticed that the silver eagle 1oz 2007 is slightly cheaper than the 2008 one. Does that mean my coins may lose value every year after a new version is printed?

 

Perhaps the 2008 coin has so far been minted in limited numbers than the 2007 and gains a market premium because people who own 2005, 2006, 2007 coins would like to add a 2008 coin. A coin will not lose its bullion value as long as it is looked after. Proof coins are made to a higher standard and fetch a premium and a small scratch or bag mark could lower its premium value, but gold always has its bullion value. A badly damaged coin such as a sovereign recovered from jewelery may at worst case scenario still get its gold scrap value of 75% of spot price.

6-I read that the krugs are the most common ones therefore easier to sell and cheaper. Well, I just had a look on COININVESTDIRECT and the krugs are at $976 against $967 for the maples and eagles so not quite true then...?

 

Goldline has some maples at £494 and the krugs at £493, I expect on ebay the krugs could get a slightly higher premium due to demand, but the maples are a much more attractive coin being 24 carat compared to the 22 carat krugs, although due to maples being 24 carat they are more easily damaged whereas the krugs are a tougher coin because of the extra copper. Another reason I like to buy in person is that I get the chance to inspect the coins for damage.

 

http://www.goldline.co.uk/bullionCoinsPage.page

 

7-What makes you buy coins rather than bullion (some 1oz are available)? What if some specific coins get depreciated? Do you think coins tend to gain more value over time or is it simply for the joy of owning a specific coin like you own a nice stamp?

 

Coins are also classed as bullion, its just that the smaller bars have a novelty value but can be harder to sell compared to the coins which are made to a consistent standard that makes identification more straight forward.

 

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/coinsorbars.html

 

 

Here is some more basic info on gold coins and bars.

 

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/goldbullion.html

 

http://search.reviews.ebay.co.uk/members/c...atZ11116QQuqtZg

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Bubb,

 

you posted a chart of gold silver riding the rails, i think it was the upper bolinger, can you update please?

It would be very welcome.

 

I donlt care what anyone else says on any forum anywhere, errol. you are tight you also called a correction.

 

I have bought, a lot!

 

Now i'm gonna do what JPuplava suggest, go kick a football somewhere, relax, forget it. turn off the screen.

 

the fundamentals are in tact, we know that, gold and silver are going higher we know that.

 

the dollar is going lower we know that.

 

fiat currencies depend on the dollar in one way or another and are using the same techniques as dollar manipulators - thus gold will rise in all currencies, we know that.

 

if gold/silver drops more - fine.

 

I am accumulating ready cash for a takedown in the summer - it may appear it may not, my recent purchase was an insurance policy.

 

you all know the strategy, proven for long term investors time and again, buy and hold, buy on dips.

relax.

 

 

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As Olivia Newton John once advised everyone "Let's get physical". Sage investors should heed her advice.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXECBdPgEA

 

 

Silver Stock Report

by Jason Hommel, March 20, 2008

 

Three more major silver dealers are reported to be out of silver today: The U.S. Mint, Kitco, and Monex. This, on top of the major dealers yesterday, Amark, Perth Mint, CNI Numismatics, and APMEX, all reported sold out. Further, nearly all of Canada is reported to be out of silver, from Vancouver to Toronto.

 

This is unprecedented, and is a perfect case of market manipulation in the paper market at COMEX and other futures exchanges to see silver prices continue to drop down to below $17/oz. today. Paper promises can be created endlessly, but real silver cannot.

 

This is NOT a case of the dealers getting spooked, and selling out to the refiners just in time, at peak prices. This is a case of the public buying up the stock at coin shops across the world ever since gold hit $1000/oz.. That event finally sparked a little of the public's buying of silver and gold. Thus, the typical coin shop flow of silver to the refiners just stopped in the last few weeks, and especially the last two days.

 

This is NOT a case of the public creating a top with 'everyone' in silver, because nobody's in silver yet. In 2006, only $1 billion was spent on investment silver, which is 0.007% of the $13.5 trillion of money in the banks. As I have long reported, the silver market is so small, there is no room for new investor demand, not even 0.1% of money could be spent on silver, because that would be $13 billion, which would push silver prices to $200/oz., and we are seeing only the tiniest beginnings of that.

 

$13 billion would be almost enough to buy all the silver produced by the mines in one year, which would leave nothing for industry. It would essentially double demand, but supply would remain the same.

 

Furthermore, this is not a top because the public continues to get to the coin shops, and is now getting on waiting lists for silver. The public is not yet in, so how can the price drop?

 

This is a case of price fixing and manipulation, like communism. Sausage is reported to cost 1 link per ruble, but there is no sausage. Silver price is quoted, but there is little to no silver.

 

Shortages are evidence of price fixing. Price fixing results in shortages. They are price fixing silver at a below market price over on the paper exchanges in New York and around the world.

 

How long can it go on? Until people stop trusting the paper exchanges, which could be after they default and fail to deliver silver. Or we could see a severe backwardation, as people refuse to trust and buy futures contracts, which would thus sell at a discount to real silver. Then, the spot price will really go up, maybe about double or more very quickly.

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...

 

Shortages are evidence of price fixing. Price fixing results in shortages. They are price fixing silver at a below market price over on the paper exchanges in New York and around the world.

 

How long can it go on? Until people stop trusting the paper exchanges, which could be after they default and fail to deliver silver. Or we could see a severe backwardation, as people refuse to trust and buy futures contracts, which would thus sell at a discount to real silver. Then, the spot price will really go up, maybe about double or more very quickly.

It's quite interesting. We have to wait until a few bigger players start taking delivery. Now that physical demand goes up, this could happen sooner rather than later.

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FGIC, Bond Insurer Unit Ratings May Be Cut by S&P (Update2)

 

By Bryan Keogh

 

March 21 (Bloomberg) -- FGIC Corp. and its bond insurance unit may have their ratings cut again by Standard & Poor's because of doubt about their ability to raise capital and take on new business.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

 

Oops. They'll do it again.

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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

Rubin Calls for Urgent Government Action to Stem Foreclosures

 

By Rich Miller

 

March 21 (Bloomberg) -- Former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin called for quick government action to tackle the rising level of home foreclosures and he indicated taxpayer money will have to be used.

 

``There is a strong need for urgent action,'' Rubin, who is chairman of Citigroup Inc.'s executive committee, said. ``I would be very, very seriously considering the possibility of using public funds in one form or another.''

 

Yeah. Just use the taxpayers' money. Plenty there.

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It's quite interesting. We have to wait until a few bigger players start taking delivery. Now that physical demand goes up, this could happen sooner rather than later.

 

I have always believed that the PM sector would only really take off when the masses demand physical. That way they can be certain their investment exists, their is no counter party risk, and it is not being shorted or leased.

 

Paper or Digital gold are both oxymora.

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Well, I've been having some 'fun' creating charts using a spreadsheet!

 

Here's my Moving Average chart:

 

 

 

And here's my Bollinger Band chart:

 

 

 

All I have to do is figure out how to interpret them in such a way as to buy and sell at the right time! :lol:

 

If the blue line goes below the cyan line..............Buy heaps :lol:

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This past Tuesday the DOW rallied over 400 points as the Fed cut rates and people made the bet that Bear would be the only big bank to collapse thanks to Fed action. But the very next day panic once again returned to the bond market as 3-month Treasury bill rates dropped sharply. This is not a sign of a Fed that has all of a sudden fixed everything, but a sign of a market still very concerned about the credit markets and worried that the Fed bailouts are going to fail. The move in T-bills began right as the market opened in the green and continued all day long. Now we have to wonder what they were so fearful yesterday.

 

Much of the selling in gold was due to a giant macro hedge fund that had to sell positions in order to meet investor redemptions. John Meriwether, who if you remember was the guy who set up the Long-Term Capital hedge fund that blew up in 1998, apparently faced huge redemptions yesterday in a group of billion dollar hedge funds. His Relative Value Opportunity fund suffered a 24% loss in its fixed income fund. He also has a billion dollar macro hedge fund down around 9% this year. It is likely that he had to sell gold and commodity positions in this fund to meet redemptions or get off margin.

 

http://www.safehaven.com/article-9737.htm

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Much of the selling in gold was due to a giant macro hedge fund that had to sell positions in order to meet investor redemptions. It is likely that he had to sell gold and commodity positions in this fund to meet redemptions or get off margin.

 

http://www.safehaven.com/article-9737.htm

My concern here is how many other positions are there going to be to unwind / cover for these reasons, and thus how long will this downward pressure on gold and silver last?

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My concern here is how many other positions are there going to be to unwind / cover for these reasons, and thus how long will this downward pressure on gold and silver last?

yes, and i don't mind losing some of the upside if I can be more confident that there isn't another correction on the cards for a while (particularly in silver).

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This past Tuesday the DOW rallied over 400 points as the Fed cut rates and people made the bet that Bear would be the only big bank to collapse thanks to Fed action. But the very next day panic once again returned to the bond market as 3-month Treasury bill rates dropped sharply. This is not a sign of a Fed that has all of a sudden fixed everything, but a sign of a market still very concerned about the credit markets and worried that the Fed bailouts are going to fail. The move in T-bills began right as the market opened in the green and continued all day long. Now we have to wonder what they were so fearful yesterday.

 

Much of the selling in gold was due to a giant macro hedge fund that had to sell positions in order to meet investor redemptions. John Meriwether, who if you remember was the guy who set up the Long-Term Capital hedge fund that blew up in 1998, apparently faced huge redemptions yesterday in a group of billion dollar hedge funds. His Relative Value Opportunity fund suffered a 24% loss in its fixed income fund. He also has a billion dollar macro hedge fund down around 9% this year. It is likely that he had to sell gold and commodity positions in this fund to meet redemptions or get off margin.

 

http://www.safehaven.com/article-9737.htm

 

So are we not too worried about golds fall in price? Will it recover back to above $1000 quickly?

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My concern here is how many other positions are there going to be to unwind / cover for these reasons, and thus how long will this downward pressure on gold and silver last?

 

Hmm, my worry is more about missing the rocket upwards when people rush for the safe haven.

Haven't we been expecting a potentially huge dip when the **** hits the fan.

And for that to be potentially quite short-lived, and followed by a very fast rise.

 

I'd rather be well insured during a firestorm.

 

Maybe my view is tainted by the fact NZ and Aus banks do not have any deposit protection scheme !

This is not the UK or US.

 

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