romans holiday Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1325523600.php Since this chart was published, according to Richard Russell via a blog post on King World News (I don't subscribe to Market Vane, so I'll take Sir Richard and King World News at their word), the number has dropped further down to 56%. As the chart above shows, major bottoms in Gold have been formed in the 50s range on this sentiment indicator. We are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1325523600.php Since this chart was published, according to Richard Russell via a blog post on King World News (I don't subscribe to Market Vane, so I'll take Sir Richard and King World News at their word), the number has dropped further down to 56%. As the chart above shows, major bottoms in Gold have been formed in the 50s range on this sentiment indicator. We are there. (see below) The New Year is starting well for holders of Precious Metals Gold : $1586.60 +$19.20 Silver : $28.39 + $0.53 .. Gold is back above the 252d-MA (near $1,575) suggesting the action at year-end was a false break. I have circled in red two similar looking patterns in prices. If the historical pattern continues to trace out, then Gold is headed higher in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 David Wilcocks claims there is an additional 1,880,000+ MT of gold held out of the markets by the BIS & the FED to protect the fiat (non-gold backed) system and the Chinese want it back. He goes further and says he was told there is a hall, a mile long with rooms either side of the hall, the size of basket ball gymnasiums, stacked floor to ceiling with gold bricks. This is classic unified conspiracy nonsense, where every [suspicious|unprovable] activity for the last 66 years is connected to the story, to include JFK's assassination, September 11th and the collapse of building 7. To top it all off, David Wilcock's source in all of this is the insane Benjamin Fulford. You couldn't make this up... actually they did. i agree - conspiracy theory nonsense from a nutcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 "David Wilcocks claims there is an additional 1,880,000+ MT of gold held out of the markets..." i agree - conspiracy theory nonsense from a nutcase. Is this guy a nutcase too... for talking about Gold reserves of 2mn or 2.5mn MT's? I found a report which gives some revised estimates... How Much Gold Stock is There Really? Posted by Philip Barton on Oct 21, 2011 The current estimate for the amount of gold stock in the world is in the region of 170,000 tonnes. As the very first step, it needs to be acknowledged that an estimate is all that is available. Running a worldwide survey on how much gold people own is rather pointless. Even in good times, people are noticeably reluctant to discuss their true wealth. In troubled times, such as now, that becomes an unwillingness to even be interviewed. Nevertheless, it also needs to be emphatically stated that 170,000 tonnes is far too low an estimate and that it is time for a revision. Every single media outlet repeats this same figure, or similar, as though it is gospel. Included in this 170,000 tonnes is the 10,000 tonnes estimated as being the total amount of gold mined in the history of the world prior to the Californian gold rush of 1848. This was simply a guess. ‘David Guyatt, in his article “The Spoils of War”, commented that prior to the Californian Gold Rush of 1848 the amount of gold believed to be in existence was about 10,000 tonnes, i.e. it was “the sum total of gold mined throughout the world during the preceding 5,850 years, for which mining records exist.” In correspondence with the World Gold Council in 1998, Guyatt says that the WGC admitted that this figure was just an “industry estimate”, although as he says: “Nevertheless, this estimate has been incorporated into current day official mining figures and punched out as actual fact.”’ The Thunder Road Report The “industry estimate” of the amount of gold mined in that 5,850 years works out to be 1.7 tonnes a year. The assumption that underpins the idea that not much gold was mined prior to the Californian gold rush is essentially, that if it takes modern methods a whole year to extract 2,400 tonnes then it would take far, far longer for more primitive cultures to extract the same amount of gold. The huge, gaping flaw in the modern versus primitive technology theory is that it assumes that all else was equal. It unequivocally was not. The further back into history we travel, the more accessible and plentiful gold was, just as it will be far less plentiful in the future than it is now. Our ancestors mined all the easy to access gold in the world. The Mesoamericans pulled chunks of it out of rivers with their hands it was so plentiful. Today we are mining the residual leftovers – the sparse remnants of what was once plentiful. . . . Somewhere between 1,200,000 tonnes and 2,500,000 tonnes would seem to be a reasonable and conservative estimate. Obviously it could go way beyond 2,500,000 tonnes. What is beyond doubt is that 170,000 tonnes barely represents the tip of the iceberg of the world’s gold stock. Let us be rid of this figure once and for all. It is a folly to keep repeating an obvious error as though it were fact. /source: http://www.goldstandardinstitute.net/2011/10/how-much-gold-stock-is-there-really/ “Gold is so plentiful that no one who did not see it could believe it”. Marco Polo reporting on gold in Lokak (Siam or Malaya) “in great abundance because it is found there in measureless quantities”… “so much indeed that the ruler of the island has a very large palace entirely roofed with fine gold, just as we roof our churches with lead” Marco Polo reporting on gold in Japan “Gold dust is found in the rivers, and gold in bigger nuggets in the lakes and mountains”. Marco Polo reporting on gold at Karajang (Chinese province of Yunnan which is still a gold mining area today) Think about all the Chinese Tea, Chinese Silks, Chinese porcelain, and spices too that showed up in Europe and America. What did the West use to pay for it? It wasn't all opium. There must have been a steady flow of Gold and Silver : bars and coin to China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Zipangu (Japan) "The Land of Gold": http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia45/en/feature/feature02.html “Zipangu” was actually a land of silver, not gold! In 1397, the Muromachi Shogun Ashikaga Yoshimitsu had the Temple of the Golden Pavilion constructed in the Japanese capital, Kyoto. Much of the three-story pavilion was covered in glittering gold leaf, making it not just a gorgeously decorated Buddhist building, but also a symbol of Japan as a land of gold. . . By the time the Portuguese arrived in Japan in the mid-1500s, there was very little gold left in the Oshu region. On the other hand, Japan had by then become one of the world’s top producers of silver, much of it from mines at Iwami Ginzan and Ikuno Ginzan. Some reports ranked Japanese silver production at one-third of global totals. The Japanese archipelago became known as the Islas Platareas (Islands of Silver), and actually, Japan used some of that silver to buy large quantities of gold from Ming China! The Portuguese and others must have asked themselves whatever happened to all that gold in “Zipangu.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Is this guy a nutcase too... for talking about Gold reserves of 2mn or 2.5mn MT's? Think about all the Chinese Tea, Chinese Silks, Chinese porcelain, and spices too that showed up in Europe and America. What did the West use to pay for it? It wasn't all opium. There must have been a steady flow of Gold and Silver : bars and coin to China. baseless supposition - there is no evidence of all this gold, just talk on the internet, and talk is cheap. as for paying for all the stuff we got from china - we offered a lot - our own texiles, technology, drugs, weapons. historical trade is not all about gold and silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Zipangu (Japan) "The Land of Gold": http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia45/en/feature/feature02.html “Zipangu” was actually a land of silver, not gold! In 1397, the Muromachi Shogun Ashikaga Yoshimitsu had the Temple of the Golden Pavilion constructed in the Japanese capital, Kyoto. Much of the three-story pavilion was covered in glittering gold leaf, making it not just a gorgeously decorated Buddhist building, but also a symbol of Japan as a land of gold. . . By the time the Portuguese arrived in Japan in the mid-1500s, there was very little gold left in the Oshu region. On the other hand, Japan had by then become one of the world’s top producers of silver, much of it from mines at Iwami Ginzan and Ikuno Ginzan. Some reports ranked Japanese silver production at one-third of global totals. The Japanese archipelago became known as the Islas Platareas (Islands of Silver), and actually, Japan used some of that silver to buy large quantities of gold from Ming China! The Portuguese and others must have asked themselves whatever happened to all that gold in “Zipangu.” gold leaf is so thin it can be transparent (gold is actually green when you look through it - interesting fact there). covering a building in gold leaf requires very little. (just look at the number of books etc with gold leaf on them - it all adds up to only a small amount). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 baseless supposition - there is no evidence of all this gold, just talk on the internet, and talk is cheap. as for paying for all the stuff we got from china - we offered a lot - our own texiles, technology, drugs, weapons. historical trade is not all about gold and silver. The mainstream estimates of Gold at 170,000 MT are way too low. Everyone in the industry knows the official Gold production figures are too low, especially for countries like Mongolia which have plenty of gold, and a high government royalty. And as the Thunder Road report states Gold was much easier to find and mine in historical times. I find it possible to believe that there are vast quantities of "secret" gold held from Medieval times and some of the sources I found about this are on a thread in the Fringe section, which I started well before the lawsuit was out: Tracking the Missing Gold: http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=15617 It is the second time I have looked into this, and I could give you links into an earlier thread too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 gold leaf is so thin it can be transparent (gold is actually green when you look through it - interesting fact there). covering a building in gold leaf requires very little. (just look at the number of books etc with gold leaf on them - it all adds up to only a small amount). Howabout- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marceau Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Terrible news everyone - it looks like Bubb was right: The plentiful hidden gold starts to emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatesy Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Terrible news everyone - it looks like Bubb was right: The plentiful hidden gold starts to emerge. GF You really ought to be more careful with your luggage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatesy Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Gold, Silver Gain After Reports That Iran Made First Nuclear Rod January 02, 2012, 1:01 PM EST Jan. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Gold and silver gained after reports that Iran produced its first nuclear fuel rod, spurring investors to buy the precious metal as a haven. http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-02/gold-silver-gain-after-reports-that-iran-made-first-nuclear-rod.html Ridiculous : "Gold climbed to the highest level in a week".... newsworthy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatesy Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 GF You really ought to be more careful with your luggage... ....it couldn't have been yours after all as you wouldn't be that careless to have bought this stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patito Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Is this guy a nutcase too... for talking about Gold reserves of 2mn or 2.5mn MT's? Think about all the Chinese Tea, Chinese Silks, Chinese porcelain, and spices too that showed up in Europe and America. What did the West use to pay for it? It wasn't all opium. There must have been a steady flow of Gold and Silver : bars and coin to China. Hm. Coudn't the question about the total amount of gold be answerend by a mathematician pulling out the the bag of tricks of statistics?!? E.g. like people estimated the number of words Shakespeare had in his spoken vocabulary. 1) Observe random independent samples of gold out there. 2) Observe how much of it was mined in a location with a well known output. 3) Conclude it's some kind Poisson-Distributed (or whatever...). 4) -> Numbers Practically it might not be so easy to collect the random samples :-), but I'd say there's surely a way to sqeeze out some pretty good numbers I'd have more confidence in than anything from random lunatics (or anything official...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hm. Coudn't the question about the total amount of gold be answerend by a mathematician pulling out the the bag of tricks of statistics?!? E.g. like people estimated the number of words Shakespeare had in his spoken vocabulary. 1) Observe random independent samples of gold out there. 2) Observe how much of it was mined in a location with a well known output. 3) Conclude it's some kind Poisson-Distributed (or whatever...). 4) -> Numbers Practically it might not be so easy to collect the random samples :-), but I'd say there's surely a way to sqeeze out some pretty good numbers I'd have more confidence in than anything from random lunatics (or anything official...). You can do that going back a few decades, but not centuries. To get a useful answer you would need information from organisations like: The Vatican, The Templars, very wealthy families... and there may be organisations outside the WEst that you have never heard of that hold gold. The mainstream solution has been to ignore what is not easily counted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvester Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 The mainstream estimates of Gold at 170,000 MT are way too low. Everyone in the industry knows the official Gold production figures are too low, especially for countries like Mongolia which have plenty of gold, and a high government royalty. And as the Thunder Road report states Gold was much easier to find and mine in historical times. I find it possible to believe that there are vast quantities of "secret" gold held from Medieval times and some of the sources I found about this are on a thread in the Fringe section, which I started well before the lawsuit was out: Tracking the Missing Gold: http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=15617 It is the second time I have looked into this, and I could give you links into an earlier thread too. The two questions that leap into my head regarding a hoard of hidden gold revolve around 'why?' Why would the illuminati or Chinese or Mongolians etc. hold on to massive amounts of gold for many many generations? I think I'd use it during my lifetime because once I am gone, who cares? Unless they have discovered the elixir of life, I can't see any reason why someone would hold on to (and not use) some store of wealth just in case my great great great great great grand kids need it. My great great great great great grand kids might be little buggers so why should I risk it? Hitler's great great great great great grandparents were probably nice people after all! Secondly, if I do have a massive amount of gold stored somewhere, why would I dump it onto the market now? I've kept it hidden for the last few hundred years through a lot of strife so my reasons for holding it must be pretty big. And if I did dump it onto the market, how does that help? I will immediately wipe out most of its worth as the gold market is now flooded. It's not as though I could even use it in financial warfare. Can I bring down the USA by revealing another billion tons of gold? Nope, not if they are not on a gold standard. Maybe I am missing something but even if the extra gold exists, I can't see it affecting us in our lifetimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patito Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 You can do that going back a few decades, but not centuries. Well, a random sample would of course include gold from museums, churches, banks, coins, teeth, ... so it's not really limited to a certain period. The beauty of statistical weaponery is that you don't have to count everything to get reasonable numbers. To get a useful answer you would need information from organisations like: The Vatican, The Templars, very wealthy families... and there may be organisations outside the WEst that you have never heard of that hold gold. The mainstream solution has been to ignore what is not easily counted. So partially I'd agree with the mainstream here. In science only the observable universe counts (museum, church, jewelery, ...)... everything else simply doesn't belong into a sample for a scientific estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hm. Coudn't the question about the total amount of gold be answerend by a mathematician pulling out the the bag of tricks of statistics?!?. 1) Observe random independent samples of gold out there. 2) Observe how much of it was mined in a location with a well known output. "How much was mined... where and when?" I don't think that works. If you pick up a bar randomly, it will be very hard to know where it comes from, and when it was mined. Also, I think you will find that all the most "interesting" gold will remain secret and hidden. There are some examples of statistical techniques used in mainstream estimates on my Fringe thread: Some market researchers have produced charts like this: /source: http://news.goldseek.com/Dani/1273767071.php (2) Cumulative Gold Production in metric tonnes (1835-2006) /source: http://www.goldsheetlinks.com/production2.htm /USGS--: http://minerals.usgs.gov/ds/2005/140/ (3) /source: http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/looking-at-gold-price-trends/ Note that: production was DECLINING from above 5mn oz. pa, around the time when the chart started. But they seem to ignore some facts: + In earlier times, Gold was monay, and there would have been a scramble to find it + Very rich grades of gold would have existed, and been exploited for thousands of years But I think these estimates are full of holes, as the Thunder Road paper has pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philder Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 The issue I have with claims that there's x tonnes of secret gold somewhere out is that they do nothing to explain where it all came from. If there's that much more gold than thought, and gold is formed at the same time and by the same processes as other elements, there ought to be more of those elements as well, unless our theories are wrong. They may well be, but in that case, the "there's much more gold" proponents then need to offer a new method by which all this extra gold came into being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d2thdr Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 The issue I have with claims that there's x tonnes of secret gold somewhere out is that they do nothing to explain where it all came from. If there's that much more gold than thought, and gold is formed at the same time and by the same processes as other elements, there ought to be more of those elements as well, unless our theories are wrong. They may well be, but in that case, the "there's much more gold" proponents then need to offer a new method by which all this extra gold came into being. If you do not take Bubbs thesis on gold seriously and read his stories for fun, it is a tortous way to spend time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manual labourer Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 The issue I have with claims that there's x tonnes of secret gold somewhere out is that they do nothing to explain where it all came from. If there's that much more gold than thought, and gold is formed at the same time and by the same processes as other elements, there ought to be more of those elements as well, unless our theories are wrong. They may well be, but in that case, the "there's much more gold" proponents then need to offer a new method by which all this extra gold came into being. "proponents then need to offer a new method by which all this extra gold came into being." Ah that's easy !!!!! The sky lizards brought it and dropped it off in their secret time travel space ship !!!!!!!!! :huh: :lol: HNY TO EVERYONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPepper Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 "How much was mined... where and when?" I don't think that works. If you pick up a bar randomly, it will be very hard to know where it comes from, and when it was mined. Also, I think you will find that all the most "interesting" gold will remain secret and hidden. There are some examples of statistical techniques used in mainstream estimates on my Fringe thread: But I think these estimates are full of holes, as the Thunder Road paper has pointed out. Hi with goldbugs anything that threats their faith, is heresy, however gold has performed well although it does not pay a reward for holding/s, besides capital gain, the reward is crap unless you cash in. Now that gold is heading south in value one has to question regardless of hedge protection against currencies (forgive my grammar) gold is/or poor as an investment class as it does not pay a dividend. this issue of hyper-inflation is bullshit, it will not happen look at Australia, tell me where it will occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walktothewater Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 gold has performed well although it does not pay a reward for holding/s, besides capital gain, the reward is crap unless you cash in. Cash in and get -5% from bank account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I have it on good authority it will happen here. Hi with goldbugs anything that threats their faith, is heresy, however gold has performed well although it does not pay a reward for holding/s, besides capital gain, the reward is crap unless you cash in. Now that gold is heading south in value one has to question regardless of hedge protection against currencies (forgive my grammar) gold is/or poor as an investment class as it does not pay a dividend. this issue of hyper-inflation is bullshit, it will not happen look at Australia, tell me where it will occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 "proponents then need to offer a new method by which all this extra gold came into being." Ah that's easy !!!!! The sky lizards brought it and dropped it off in their secret time travel space ship !!!!!!!!! :huh: It is easy to ridicule Wilcock and Fulford's argument, except + The lawsuit of Keenan's is reportedly headed to an out-of-court settlement. Why? + Thunder Road also comes up with a large number near 2Mn MT using an unrelated process So the ridicule bears no force, if you keep an open mind. The close-minded here have missed so many opportunities (like trading and learning opportunities)*, and I reckon they will be blind-sided in a major way by their enthusiasm to believe the wild ideas of the Bill Murphy's of the world, which have less credibility than some BF/DW ideas *As shown in the statment: "You cannot beat B&H": what utter nonsense that has proven to be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now