GOLD

[romans holiday]

This is worth a read ...

 

How the PM blogosphere behaves like a cult

 

Yes, cult-like modes of thinking proliferate because the Internet is by its nature shismatic. It is too easy to gravitate to one site with its one simple transparent idea. The message used to be about some kind of orthodoxy, whether rational or religious. But when the medium becomes the message, thinking is moulded by being wedded to it... the medium. Thought used to develop more flirtatiously and more independently, towards a more opaque reality.

 

We are all heterodox today, and choose what we want to believe. The irony is that this together with the broadband tends to lead in practice to the narrowing of thought [which should be universal] to one particular wavelength - or what is worse a complete lobotomy altogether. I mean, just look at all the faces stuck in Facebook.

[G0ldfinger]

It is too easy to gravitate to one site with its one simple transparent idea.

See, that's why I am still posting here despite of having the feeling to have to wade through knee-deep esoterics each time I enter. Gold-wise, thanks to Bubb and a few, it still feels like swimming upstream.

[50sQuiff]

How very cute and smug to describe the PM blogosphere as a cult. I suppose if there actually was a homogeneous entity identifiable as the "PM blogosphere" and cults were founded on historical and monetary analysis then he might have a point.

 

Has he ever met a football fan or been on a football forum? Football is a cult! Has he ever been on a music forum dedicated to a certain band or genre? Music is a cult! A forum dedicated to Macs and Ipods? Apple is a cult! What amazing insight... not.

 

I wonder what this analysis makes mainstream financial media - CNBC, MoneyWeek and the like. Christianity perhaps? I think Christians are batshit insane to a varying degree, so I'm quite content in my gold cult-like surroundings

[Jake]

This is worth a read ...

 

How the PM blogosphere behaves like a cult

 

I first started seriously browsing the PM blog sites at the end of 2010. I'd traded for years (stocks mostly), but was a relative newcomer to the world of investing in gold and silver. I was struck by the huge amount of apparently helpful online advice, charts, and discussion, all dedicated to gold and silver. I'd never had such a resource to draw from when trading the FTSE, so I became something of an avid reader of these sites. A whole new world was opened up to me: one of Turds and talking bears and Keisers and KWNs and Zero Hedges; not to mention Harvey's Organ [sic] and too many others to name.

 

http://screwtapefiles.blogspot.com/2012/02/how-pm-blogosphere-behaves-like-cult.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScrewtapeFiles+%28Screwtape+files%29

 

Some good comments by 'swampfox' there.

The writer coming late to the party 'at the end of 2010' will have run into loads of people devoted to the 'cult' but not half as so many that are unaware they are living in the cult of another sort: fiat money. Maybe 'ignorance is bliss', for a long while, at least.

Look how gold was treated on HPC (banned) and to a lesser extent on GEI recently (B&H are losers compared to my strategy etc). Any polarising group will attract the extremes but the original message remains the same and reflects best the situation we are in.

[drbubb]

BTW, to the average guy that would possibly be better advice than constant buying and selling and buying back.

Do you think?

Perhaps not if he monitors Gold versus "things", not just Gold versus Dollars (or Sterling.) By looking at Gold relative to a number a measures, he can better spot times of overvaluation, and also find "buying windows".

 

Reposted from the "GEI Posting topics" thread:

Gold is certainly not as 'cheap' as it was in terms of purchasing power, but there is a good case that it could get a lot more 'expensive' measured in terms of UK/US houses, DJIA or suits. UK houses for example haven't really even come down much to speak of, in GBP... measured in gold though, a pretty good crash.

Exactly right.

Gold-in-things looks expensive. So will it really be a "good store of wealth" from $1730? Maybe not. Not unless people flood into Gold from things.

 

That's why I like to look at Gold relative to CRB (for example) when seeking buying windows:

 

Here's another Logical indicator (the Ratio of Gold-to-CRB) which has done a good job at pinpointing Buying windows.

 

 

We last saw one at the beginning of 2012 when I started this thread. Gold is now well into the "expensive" region by this measure.

 

Perhaps we will see another buying window in March 2012 when the next Seasonal Low is due.

[drbubb]

...

Look how gold was treated on HPC (banned) and to a lesser extent on GEI recently (B&H are losers compared to my strategy etc). Any polarising group will attract the extremes but the original message remains the same and reflects best the situation we are in.

"banned to a lesser extent" on GEI ???

 

What are you talking about ?

 

Right on the Low (at $1550?) the beginning of the Year, I started a thread entitled:

Gold Charts look Bullish as we start 2012

 

Before that, I had encouraged people to be cautious on Gold after it parabolic move up to over $1800-1900.

 

ENCOURAGING PEOPLE away from expensive Gold and towards buying cheap Gold is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a ban. That's intelligent monitoring of the valuation, which should greatly help those who want to be long gold, and use it to store their wealth effectively. Suggesting that Gold is always a good buy, could waste people's wealth in the long run (if they get sucked in at high prices, and get frightened out at low prices.)

[romans holiday]

Reposted from the "GEI Posting topics" thread:

 

Exactly right.

Gold-in-things looks expensive. So will it really be a "good store of wealth" from $1730? Maybe not. Not unless people flood into Gold from things.

 

That's why I like to look at Gold relative to CRB (for example) when seeking buying windows:

There's a flaw in your argument here... no, the whole argument is flawed. You are still failing to think of gold as a currency. Rather than a thing which is priced, it could instead be what prices all things. Go on, be adventurous and take this Copernican leap of imagination.

[drbubb]

There's a flaw in your argument here... no, the whole argument is flawed. You are still failing to think of gold as a currency. Rather than a thing which is priced, it could instead be what prices all things. Go on, be adventurous and take this Copernican leap of imagination.

???

"failing to think of gold as a currency"

 

Not at all.

I swap back in forth from HK$ to C$ (just as I swap back in forth from Gold/GLD.) I usually get it right, bit not always. I also use GBP and A$, to a lesser extent as "stores of value" from time to time.

 

Do you sit on one currency all the time? If so, which one?

 

Remember: Gold generates no interest income. In fact, it costs money to store it.

 

 

I WANT GEI people to use Gold as a Tool, not behave like a "Gold holders support group."

 

 

Here's what that Screwtape letter said about some Gold holders acting like a cult:

 

"I always felt like there was a dark side.

And I'm not talking about Blythe and JPM here. I was kicked off numerous blogs for asking reasonable questions. The venom I received in April 2011 for pointing out the silver RSI had prompted me to sell my stash (and advising others to do the same) was remarkable.

 

I switched from participant to observer, and started to pay closer attention. Every psychological tool in the book was being employed: confirmation bias, creation and deployment of memes, use of single sources to imply many sources, aggressive trampling of contrary opinions, herd mentality, isolation of 'us' from 'them'. The works."

 

We have had that sort of nonsense on GEI too. I fought it, and so did some others here.

 

Do you really want GEI to be part of a cult?

[romans holiday]

???

"failing to think of gold as a currency"

 

Not at all.

I swap back in forth from HK$ to C$ (just as I swap back in forth from Gold/GLD.) I usually get it right, bit not always. I also use GBP and A$, to a lesser extent as "stores of value" from time to time.

My point was that if you are looking for gold to be "over-valued" against commodities then you are not thinking of gold as a currency.... that which does the valuing. Instead you see gold and commodities valuing each-other, and potentially in an on-going "see-saw" pattern. There is an important macro-economic point here that you are missing. Here's your quote here:

 

Exactly right.

Gold-in-things looks expensive. So will it really be a "good store of wealth" from $1730? Maybe not. Not unless people flood into Gold from things.

 

That's why I like to look at Gold relative to CRB (for example) when seeking buying windows:

The way I see it the error lies in thinking of it as another commodity, or asset... as a store of wealth instead of a store of value [one of the functions of a currency].

 

 

Do you sit on one currency all the time? If so, which one?

 

Remember: Gold generates no interest income. In fact, it costs money to store it.

]

Nope. Core sit and hold in gold, trade silver/ dollar in order to hedge.

 

We have had that sort of nonsense on GEI too. I fought it, and so did some others here.

 

Do you really want GEI to be part of a cult?[/b

As you must well know, I'm no gold bug. And critical of cultish thinking. But I am a fully paid up member of the fully hedged gold bull club.

[drbubb]

My point was that if you are looking for gold to be "over-valued" against commodities then you are not thinking of gold as a currency.... that which does the valuing. Instead you see gold and commodities valuing each-other, and potentially in an on-going "see-saw" pattern. There is an important macro-economic point here that you are missing. Here's your quote here:

 

The way I see it the error lies in thinking of it as another commodity, or asset... as a store of wealth instead of a store of value [one of the functions of a currency].

 

Nope. Core sit and hold in gold, trade silver/ dollar in order to hedge.

 

As you must well know, I'm no gold bug. And critical of cultish thinking. But I am a fully paid up member of the fully hedged gold bull club.

Gold can get overvalued as a commodity, and it can also get overvalued as a currency.

We should look at it both ways - maybe there will be times where's it usefulness as a currency allows it to stay overvalued as a commodity for a long time, but I may not welcome that day... as much as some of the Buy-and-hold Gold bulls may. What will I thne use as a store of value?

 

BTW, I don't want GEI to join the Gold cult, or any other cult. I do not want to see GEI readers duped by anyone: Neither the Gold cult, nor the Facebook cult, as this posting will show:

 

WSJ asks a KEY question about FB:

 

"Can the social network extract enough money from its members to justify a $100 Billion price?"

 

(Duped FB users may buy it, but will they make money?)

/source: Facebook thread

[azazel]

LOL, the anti gold bias is in full swing, even suggesting that those who own it are in a cult, to discourage others from joining this "cult" by owning some themselves.

 

The same thing happened over at HPC when the controllers, the moderators, decided that all this talk about gold was dangerous and was to be discouraged. Some still talk of their regret of not listening as they feel they missed the boat on gold. So it turns out that the controllers at HPC were wrong as gold did appreciate against houses and the crash came when valued in gold not GBP. So, who do they think they are, deciding how people should think? Surely a forum is a place for people to come and think not come to be told how to think.

 

The thing is, gold is not like owning google shares or barclays shares. Owning gold can be a way of rejecting the system. Its removing your wealth from the banks, rejecting fiat money as a means of saving. If the system collapses, financially speaking, owning gold may prove to be the best defence.

 

Bubb says, "I WANT GEI people to use Gold as a Tool, not behave like a "Gold holders support group." You say "post more and post what interests you", (which is like the psychiatrist saying lye down here and tell me how you feel) but who do you think you are telling any one of us how you want us to behave?

 

I say again, is this place some sort of a clinic where sick people come to be treated by the good DrBubb for the affliction of not thinking in the way that the Dr see best? You will drive away all those who do not want to be one of your "GEI people", who want to think differently to you.

 

May I suggest a new name for the site, "Gold Enthusiasts Institution, where goldbugs can be healed from their sickness"

 

Good luck with that then.

[drbubb]

LOL, the anti gold bias is in full swing, even suggesting that those who own it are in a cult, to discourage others from joining this "cult" by owning some themselves.

 

The same thing happened over at HPC when the controllers, the moderators, decided that all this talk about gold was dangerous and was to be discouraged. Some still talk of their regret of not listening as they feel they missed the boat on gold. So it turns out that the controllers at HPC were wrong as gold did appreciate against houses and the crash came when valued in gold not GBP. So, who do they think they are, deciding how people should think? Surely a forum is a place for people to come and think not come to be told how to think.

 

The thing is, gold is not like owning google shares or barclays shares. Owning gold can be a way of rejecting the system. Its removing your wealth from the banks, rejecting fiat money as a means of saving. If the system collapses, financially speaking, owning gold may prove to be the best defence.

 

Bubb says, "I WANT GEI people to use Gold as a Tool, not behave like a "Gold holders support group." You say "post more and post what interests you", (which is like the psychiatrist saying lye down here and tell me how you feel) but who do you think you are telling any one of us how you want us to behave?

Now you are being ridiculous ! - I am far from anti-Gold. I am long it, and have been long for a long, long time. But I simply do not think everyday is a "Buy Window." Nor do I abuse people who think it is smart to take some profits (on some or all) of their gold holding from time-to-time.

 

I understand that some people may not want to TRADE gold, but holding some and trading some makes perfect sense to me.

 

If you really are comfortable owning gold, why should you need to surround yourself with a mindless Jimmy-One-Note support group. Just own it, as I do, and help others to spot the good buying and selling windows for those who are willing to trade a part of their portfolio, or simply want to add to their holdings in a good buying window.

 

"Gold is not like owning google shares or barclays shares. Owning gold can be a way of rejecting the system. Its removing your wealth from the banks."

 

There are plenty of ways of "removing your wealth from the Big bank system." One is to put your cash into smaller local banks, away from the Too-Big-To-Fails. Another would be to buy Land or even properties you can rent, to earn income. You might also invest in shares, what's wrong with that? If you think Wall Street profits too much, you can invest in private Ventures run by friends or family.

 

I have to laugh, since you sound like a paid-up-member of the Gold-Only Cult, and you do not even realise it. What a great job of brainwashing the Gold-owning Illuminati (like JS) have done on you.

[azazel]

Here is a great post from Sir Harold M at HPC that sums it up nicely

 

I don't like the way this country has been run. I can see the flaws.

I do not cry about my personal circumstances because I can take action to hedge against mistakes.

 

We all know our currency is being devalued . Stop whinging that your 50k or whatever savings you have are being inflated.

 

By retaining in cash you are deliberately, wilfully, and explicitly accepting a counterparty whose credibility you doubt.

 

You are no different than a sub prime investor.

 

If you don't like the monetary policy of your fiat issuer short them or move your cash to gold .

 

This forum is full of people who were banging on about their pile of savings this time last year and how they hated chopper and merv and how qe was destroying their savings.

 

Did any of you keep it in Gbp despite your knowledge? Then stop whinging! You took a gamble and now you blame someone else for a decision you knew was wrong!

 

If you had 100k for a 50 pc deposit this time last year and you had switched it to gold, ( with a bit of quanto ) you could now almost buy your house . One year to buy half a house? How much more of a ******in crash do you want?

 

If you didn't move to gold ( I didn't) then you chose the wrong currency to invest in, proably because you didn't want to ! Your choice, your outcome, not my fickin problem !

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=174795

[drbubb]

Here is a great post from Sir Harold M at HPC that sums it up nicely

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=174795

There's nothing wrong with being aware of the dangers of a fiat currency - which is what that post speaks to.

 

But not all are like that. There are some stronger currencies (of which Gold could be one). And even the US dollar has been worth owning at times, just not all the time. And neither the US dollar, nor Sterling, look like safe places to park wealth for the long term, for all the familiar reasons.

 

Let's be honest about this:

The Gold cultists are not thinking of Gold as a "safe place to store wealth." Most want and expect their gold holdings to GAIN in spending value over time. You can see this in the brief discussion that I had with Romans Holiday and others just above (posts#28,502 - 28,514.) He is not content that Gold holds its own against the CRB index, and against Home prices etc. He wants to see Gold go on rising against those other measures of wealth. He wants to see gold valued as a currency (where the sky is the limit), rather than against other commodities.

 

I suppose that is why the Gold and Silver cultists get upset when people talk about selling their holdings after run-ups. They feel like the "gold movement" is therefore losing troops. They do not like to see people sell and value gold as a normal coomodity, since that undermines the fantasy that God can constantly go on increasing in value, because it is "the ultimate currency" and maybe therefore has some magical properties.

 

Unfortunately, I am too old to think that way. I have seen too many ups and down, including ups and downs in Gold prices. Shame on JS and JD (Dines). They are old enough to be able to speak sense on Gold, but have somehow been recruited into the Gold cult as leaders of this upcycle. Indeed, they also played that role in the last cycle, and did get out not too many miles from the top. Have they bought into thr dream too much this time, to achieve that feat a second time? Time will tell. They are certain "Pumpers", and only future history will show if they time their "Dump" properly and get themseleves and their supporters out before Gold begins the next major slide in value. A drop of almost 50% in Silver prices (without them calling a top near $50, as I and others did), suggest there is a real possibility that they will miss the top. Perhaps they have missed it already.

[azazel]

And Crashman Begins

 

Agree

 

Certain people on this site pleaded with everyone to understand what was going to happen. TO PROTECT THEMSELVES

 

A fair 50% crash was due, but they decided that it would be best to crash the system so hard that they could move the goal posts.

Youve got to keep up with how this is playing out.

 

An idea / plan from 2004 is not going to work in 2012

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=174795&st=60

[azazel]

I dont know why you have such a problem with those who want to own some gold. Of course you will say you dont but the things you say prove otherwise.

 

You never ever accept any of the criticism. You ask "what changes are needed?" I foolishly thought you meant changes to the website but clearly its "changes to the thinking of the GEI people" you are referring to.

[Plastic Elastic]

[...]A drop of almost 50% in Silver prices (without them calling a top near $50, as I and others did)...

Dave Morgan did. So did Bob Moriarty (321gold). They have certainly risen in my estimation by doing so.

 

On the other hand I'd like to point out that it seems a bit strange to me when you label certain things as 'cultish', given the threads you post on various conspiracies and New Age ideas.

[Pixel8r]

If you really are comfortable owning gold, why should you need to surround yourself with a mindless Jimmy-One-Note support group. Just own it, as I do, and help others to spot the good buying and selling windows for those who are willing to trade a part of their portfolio, or simply want to add to their holdings in a good buying window.

A lot of us have been around long enough to remember the "Be careful gold may be done here" thread that you started when gold was under $1000. I argued with you in that thread for sometime that it wasn't and that when we broke through $1000 next time that we wouldn't be back. You were very insistent that it was not a good time to buy but history has taught us different, so excuse me if many don't want to listen to your sage advice.

 

If only history was actually as easy to erase as certain threads.

 

"Just own it, as I do" or not as is more probable, do you actually own any physical metal or is all your ownership wrapped up in some ETF?

[drbubb]

I dont know why you have such a problem with those who want to own some gold. Of course you will say you dont but the things you say prove otherwise.

 

You never ever accept any of the criticism. You ask "what changes are needed?" I foolishly thought you meant changes to the website but clearly its "changes to the thinking of the GEI people" you are referring to.

??

I have no problem whatsoever with people who want to hold Gold. (Are you reading my posts, or just REACTING to what you think I wrote?) I own gold, and in early Jan when the price was near $1,550, encouraged those who wanted to add to their holdings, to buy at the "low" price then.

 

I listen to and respond to criticism all the time. That other thread is full of many threads disagreeing with me. I generally respond positively and politely, even to some occasional hostile postings.

 

BTW, Have you read the DEFINITION OF A CULT from the other site? Here are the first two points:

 

Key Characteristics of a Cult (adapted from the research of Janja Lalich and Michael Langone and of Marcia Rudin)

 

1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. The leader is not accountable to anyone.

 

2. Rational thought, questioning and dissent are discouraged or forbidden.

 

/source: http://screwtapefiles.blogspot.com/2012/02/how-pm-blogosphere-behaves-like-cult.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScrewtapeFiles+%28Screwtape+files%29

 

=== ===

 

No one here sees me as a leader to a Gold cult. (And I certainly would not encourage that, though I do think people can benefit sometimes from the trading ideas I post on DrBubb's Diary and elsewhere here.) But many here do see Jim Sinclair as a Cult leader. The gold cultists never question him. And I get an earful ("an eyeful"? in posts) when I dare to question him, or GATA, or any of the other Buy-and-Hold gurus.

 

I think that my postings, and those of others like RH, are sensible and rational, but they are not treated that way by the Gold Purists. The Purists got very upset merely by the PRESENCE of a "Beating Buy and Hold" thread on the Main board. Rather than attracting those who wanted to learn from what I was doing, the thread proved to be a magnet for those who wanted to rubbish the idea of my daring to trade Precious metals. Eventually, I gave up, and moved the thread elsewhere. I also stopped updating it every week. Over 6-9 months, I believe I proved someone with a technical system could beat buy and hold by spotting trading windows, even when I stuck to a strong Long bias.

 

There simply wasn't enough constructive posting on the thread, so I decided "why bother with this?" and stopped wasting my time keeping it up to date. If that wasn't responding to the demonstrated wishes of GEI posters, what do I need to do ?

[drbubb]

A lot of us have been around long enough to remember the "Be careful gold may be done here" thread that you started when gold was under $1000. I argued with you in that thread for sometime that it wasn't and that when we broke through $1000 next time that we wouldn't be back. You were very insistent that it was not a good time to buy but history has taught us different, so excuse me if many don't want to listen to your sage advice.

 

If only history was actually as easy to erase as certain threads.

 

"Just own it, as I do" or not as is more probable, do you actually own any physical metal or is all your ownership wrapped up in some ETF?

Okay.

I don't get it right all the time. And saying "be careful" (and keeping some of my longs) is very, very different than telling people to "GO SHORT!" - which I never did.

 

Also, you are not being fair to me, since I later identified buying window which was only a few dollars higher than where I said "be careful."

 

You also fail to mention the many times since then that I declared "Buying Windows" on exact lows, or within a few dollars of the low.

 

Do you know anyone who has called the market better? Many Gurus that you respect say repeatedly: "You cannot beat buy and hold." I proved over many months that it was possible to do so, and I beat B&H by about 50%.

 

Please tell me: Where can I go to find better market calls on precious metals? I am very happy to learn from others, whether or not they post here. So this is a genuine request to know where someone can find good trading ideas on PM's.

 

"Do you actually own any physical metal or is all your ownership wrapped up in some ETF?"

 

I have already made millions being long PM stocks: the "Gold stock trade" from the year 2000 was the main thing that allowed me to achieve financial independence and escape the work-a-day life. So I have nothing to prove.

 

Why should you are anyone else care if I own physical metal? In fact, Gold etfs have so far been just as good as gold. And GLD has been LESS RISKY than owning Gold futures (thru a firm like MFG.)

[dunker1]

This is worth a read ...

 

How the PM blogosphere behaves like a cult

 

I first started seriously browsing the PM blog sites at the end of 2010. I'd traded for years (stocks mostly), but was a relative newcomer to the world of investing in gold and silver. I was struck by the huge amount of apparently helpful online advice, charts, and discussion, all dedicated to gold and silver. I'd never had such a resource to draw from when trading the FTSE, so I became something of an avid reader of these sites. A whole new world was opened up to me: one of Turds and talking bears and Keisers and KWNs and Zero Hedges; not to mention Harvey's Organ [sic] and too many others to name.

 

http://screwtapefiles.blogspot.com/2012/02/how-pm-blogosphere-behaves-like-cult.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScrewtapeFiles+%28Screwtape+files%29

 

Oh dear !!!

I have been wasting my time - standing in the back garden late at night, peering into the night sky, waiting for Messrs Turk, Sprott and Morgan to arrive in a solid silver rocket, then to be whisked off to that golden moon we have all been promised.

[Pixel8r]

Okay.

I don't get it right all the time. And saying "be careful" (and keeping some of my longs) is very, very different than telling people to "GO SHORT!" - which I never did.

 

Also, you are not being fair to me, since I later identified buying window which was only a few dollars higher than where I said "be careful."

 

You also fail to mention the many times since then that I declared "Buying Windows" on exact lows, or within a few dollars of the low.

 

Do you know anyone who has called the market better? Many Gurus that you respect say repeatedly: "You cannot beat buy and hold." I proved over many months that it was possible to do so, and I beat B&H by about 50%.

 

Please tell me: Where can I go to find better market calls on precious metals? I am very happy to learn from others, whether or not they post here. So this is a genuine request to know where someone can find good trading ideas on PM's.

 

"Do you actually own any physical metal or is all your ownership wrapped up in some ETF?"

 

I have already made millions being long PM stocks: the "Gold stock trade" from the year 2000 was the main thing that allowed me to achieve financial independence and escape the work-a-day life. So I have nothing to prove.

 

Why should you are anyone else care if I own physical metal? In fact, Gold etfs have so far been just as good as gold. And GLD has been LESS RISKY than owning Gold futures (thru a firm like MFG.)

The difference is that you don't own or accumulate real physical gold or silver you trade it. You say you have made millions out of trading stocks, well good on you but the difference is between you and most 'normal' humans is that you already came from a banking background and have a large sum to play with. Many of the people who are buying gold currently have had virtually nothing to do with trading, they are purely trying to see their way through this financial crisis.

 

You say that owning GLD has been less risky than owning gold futures, talk about stating the bleeding obvious! I have never said that owning any sort of paper gold trading vehicle is a good idea. The less risk that you talk about in an ETF is nowhere near the zero counterpart risk of owning physical metal.

 

Pouring scorn and insults on to those that have had the foresight to take themselves out of the corrupt fiat currency system just makes you look like a banker, which is going to make you very lonely on this site as selfish bankers are what the world is revolting against currently.

 

Categorising those that are accumulating physical metals as members of a cult is daft, exactly the same could be said about the day trading fanatics.

[Plastic Elastic]

Playing devil's advocate here Gold measured in S&P 500 just bounced off a resistance line.

[G0ldfinger]

... but not half as so many that are unaware they are living in the cult of another sort: fiat money.

Yes, yes, yes. We even have a thread on it: http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=8312

[G0ldfinger]

Do you think?

Perhaps not if he monitors Gold versus "things", not just Gold versus Dollars (or Sterling.) By looking at Gold relative to a number a measures, he can better spot times of overvaluation, and also find "buying windows".

That is already the advanced stage, and all my writing circles around pointing out when was a good time to buy gold (it still is; this is where we disagree and have disagreed in the past (gold "done" below $1,000 etc.)), and when to possibly sell it a few years out. All the charts, measures and stuff I post here is on exactly this topic, while avoiding to do the manic short term trading that just costs nerves and might go horrendously wrong.