GOLD

[halight]

Jim Sinclair: Gold Heading Back Towards A Monetary System

The Legendary Jim Sinclair has just sent an email alert to subscribers discussing the specifics of the end game for gold, how gold will reach full valuation by 2015, and how the Western investment banks will soon invent derivatives to speculate on member's gold value requirements.

 

From Jim Sinclair:

 

The Gold Aficionado's greatest fear is totally without basis. The price of gold will not fall significantly from its points of true standard valuation and the introduction of a new currency system.

Gold is heading back towards a monetary system and not away from it. The producing gold company of the future is the new utility as it dividends a majority of its profits to its shareholders.

The fact that gold is money and not a commodity is the safety latch that opens on its own when all other forms of money close.

Gresham's Law is human nature seeking a standard when all other forms of exchange have mutated to casino chips with national flags on them. Increasing world liquidity multiplies itself in increasing volatility of all things traded until an epic moment when over the top volatility convinces even the most economically ignorant that only a standard that cannot be multiplied by an instant Bernanke helicopter unlimited electronic monetary liquidity system is honest money. It is the flight from the burning values in terms of purchasing power of the casino chips called fiat currency towards a standard that proves Professor Gresham's Law. It is a study of history that repeatedly shows his thesis that good money, honest money, forces out bad money.

 

 

Between now and 2015 gold will meet and, like all markets, exceed its value as a standard of measure. However there will be no repeat of the 1980 to 2001 price adjustment. Of course gold will meet and exceed a number, but its return to that full valuation will be a modest percentage of the total value. Gold is headed to a pendulum point at the introduction of the new virtual Western World Reserve unit for trade settlement.

 

 

I see the new system utilizing a Western World M3, which all member governments will agree to as 100 on the Index of Standard Currency Equilibrium. As this measure rises and falls, governments will agree that the value of their Treasury gold will move in the same direction and percentage according to their GDP ranking

 

Please visit site to read more.

 

http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2012/02/jim-sinclair-gold-heading-back-towards.html?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

 

 

Im not a fan of Sinclair, but i know some of you follow him. There is more to read if you click on the link.

[geisaver]

This might be worth reading to anyone who has mining shares,

 

Link.....http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/gold_mining_020920126

 

New Tax Could Threaten Gold Mining in Tanzania - 9 February 2012

 

 

Mining shares not doing well today. Tax double whammy?

 

This mining tax causing concern and corporation tax loopholes being closed?

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner on Tuesday said the Obama Administration's plan to revamp the corporate tax system will cut "dozens and dozens" of tax breaks enjoyed by business, while keeping a limited number that focus on keeping jobs in the United States.

 

Geithner spoke at the Senate Finance Committee a day after Obama proposed a $3.8 trillion budget plan, including aggressive cuts to corporate tax benefits and steeper taxes on the wealthy

[halight]

Mining shares not doing well today. Tax double whammy?

 

This mining tax causing concern and corporation tax loopholes being closed?

 

 

Anything thats earning money or doing well, they will Tax it. Its as sure as death.

 

All Goverments world wide need the money.

 

Im betting here in the UK that the Goverment will start opening the pits back up

 

 

 

Thinking about it, it dose dont sound a bad idea, I think ill right to my MP about it.

[Carlton]

The producing gold company of the future is the new utility as it dividends a majority of its profits to its shareholders.

This is an intriguing thought that I've seen JS talk about previously. But somehow I doubt that miners will ever have the efficiency, reliability, and stability of conventional utilities. The mining business has risks, surprises, and uncertainties that most utilities don't face. And, of course, the miners are working with non-renewable resources.

 

Also, there is the miners' performance to date versus the metal, which is rather disappointing. If $4500, or some other much higher number comes, I think we'll be better off in the metal than in most miners. Some miners do have the potential to go "to the moon" at $4500 Au, but we still have the issues of nationalization, onerous taxation, and war and terrorism in some places to worry about.

[d2thdr]

Im not a fan of Sinclair, but i know some of you follow him. There is more to read if you click on the link.

 

Why not? A couple of months back when you started posting, you came across as someone who does not know anything. I took almost 2 years to formulate opinions about most financial gurus and now I know whom to listen and whom to avoid.

 

I wonder what was it about Sinclair which turned you off? You can choose to not answer, but I would like to hear your opinions as there may be an angle I have not explored. Thanks in advance.

[malvern hills]

Why not? A couple of months back when you started posting, you came across as someone who does not know anything. I took almost 2 years to formulate opinions about most financial gurus and now I know whom to listen and whom to avoid.

 

I wonder what was it about Sinclair which turned you off? You can choose to not answer, but I would like to hear your opinions as there may be an angle I have not explored. Thanks in advance.

 

 

I can understand why some don't like Sinclair. The 'Dear extended family' bit comes across creepy.

But you can't take away the fact that he made an almost unbelievable call on gold $1650 from ten years out. Ok, he was a few months amiss , but anything could have happened in a decade.

I for one think he knows what he is on about, even though I might not like his communication style.

[halight]

Why not? A couple of months back when you started posting, you came across as someone who does not know anything. I took almost 2 years to formulate opinions about most financial gurus and now I know whom to listen and whom to avoid.

 

I wonder what was it about Sinclair which turned you off? You can choose to not answer, but I would like to hear your opinions as there may be an angle I have not explored. Thanks in advance.

 

 

Im not sure mate, Its just somthing about him. I dont mind reading his stuff i find some very good info in there. But when i hear hime on podcasts there is just something about him i dont really like. Like i say im not really sure whta it is.

Im not going to stop reading what he writes. For me any info is worth reading. I belive that you need to look at all things from each side and view point. Thats why i like this site, there are many views and each one is worth reading.

[halight]

I can understand why some don't like Sinclair. The 'Dear extended family' bit comes across creepy.

But you can't take away the fact that he made an almost unbelievable call on gold $1650 from ten years out. Ok, he was a few months amiss , but anything could have happened in a decade.

I for one think he knows what he is on about, even though I might not like his communication style.

 

 

I belive that he did it twice. He called the top of the market in 1980 too, (i think i may have read that on this site, not sure now) Iv read that some people over the years have gotten badly burnt in the Gold market. He seems to have made a load of money in the 70s-early80s got out of the market, And then called time to get back in. This shows that he dose his homework on the market.

[halight]

Why not? A couple of months back when you started posting, you came across as someone who does not know anything. I took almost 2 years to formulate opinions about most financial gurus and now I know whom to listen and whom to avoid.

 

I wonder what was it about Sinclair which turned you off? You can choose to not answer, but I would like to hear your opinions as there may be an angle I have not explored. Thanks in advance.

 

 

And your right about me not knowing anything when i

first started posting. I only knew basic stuff. (some would say i still do)

But thanks to the posters on here, i now know a lot more and im more at ease about about putting over what i feel,think on a topic.

 

im still learning, I learn something new everyday. My thourts on matters also change the more i learn.

[halight]

This is an intriguing thought that I've seen JS talk about previously. But somehow I doubt that miners will ever have the efficiency, reliability, and stability of conventional utilities. The mining business has risks, surprises, and uncertainties that most utilities don't face. And, of course, the miners are working with non-renewable resources.

 

Also, there is the miners' performance to date versus the metal, which is rather disappointing. If $4500, or some other much higher number comes, I think we'll be better off in the metal than in most miners. Some miners do have the potential to go "to the moon" at $4500 Au, but we still have the issues of nationalization, onerous taxation, and war and terrorism in some places to worry about.

 

 

Im sure on one of FBBs podcasts, Dom said somthing about a miner that were going to be paying a divi with gold bullion. It was quite a few months back and iv only just given it any thourt, Anyone else remember anything of this ?

[halight]

If Greece defults on there bonds i belive that this will send the markets into freefall. The ECB,FED,BoE will then flood the markets with next to free loans to stop any runs on on any of the banks and prop them up. The fallout from all of this will then hit us in the real world in a matter of a few weeks. Orders will go down, jobs will be lost and Europe, the UK and to a lesser amout the rest of the world will then enter a deflation hole as money and credit drys up. This i beliv ewill hit the price of gold hard. With quite a sell off. Maybe as much as 30% ~? To stop the deflation the worlds CBs will push the printing press buttion. Large amounts of new money will then hit then hit the world. Goverments will try to help out by spending some of this new money in any way they can think of. This new money, which lets not forget is on top of other new money which in turn is on top of even more new money will within a few months turn into light inflation. This new money will be good for Gold. which i belive could then hit $2500 (anyone know what that is in £s)

 

Now trusting taht i dont lose my job with many others. I shall be buying gold when the deflation starts. This for me will be the same as i do with many other investments, it will be a buy and hold play.

 

My thinking is that within 5 years the bond market are going to go after Japan. They can not keep borrowing off there own people for ever. Many are now getting on in years and very well may start to need there money taht they have saved, There are quite a few younger people in the country but like in the west they dont have the saveing habit like older folks do. When Japan need to borrow big off the world bond market i belive taht they will find it hard to keep on borrowing the amout they need with the debt levels taht they have. 200% and growing ! This will be bed for the people of Japan. And yes i will feel sorry for them. But in turn it should be good for Gold. Like the banks in 08/09 no one knows who is a safe bet and who is not, the same is now true upto a point with countrys. Were do you park your money? were is safe ? all good for the price of gold.

 

 

 

All that remains to be seen is, if im right.

 

 

I posted the above on the Deflation thred. But i also feel it belongs here too. So i have reposted it here aswell. Please for give me if you end up reading it twice

[warpig]

I think we're all in this boat.

 

im still learning, I learn something new everyday. My thourts on matters also change the more i learn.

 

 

[drbubb]

(The "Momentous Year" interview was mentioned and listened to by some on AsiaXpat ):

. . .

Beyond Ed's fears of economic catastrophes, I worry about a currency meltdown in a world where people have lost morality. Pete Peterson in a fascinating interview with Camelot has expressed these concerns well.

 

You can jump in here at about one hour in 1:03 Hours in :

 

 

He talks about Urban Survival, and how very difficult it is in this day and age.

 

Potentially backing up the 9th Shock in the Frisby interview, Peterson talks about what he discovered when looking closely at human DNA. That is about 24 minutes in.

Pete Peterson: about 1:20 in

====

"Store and Save food. It will save you money, and it may save your life. Owning Gold will just get you killed."

 

"If you own gold, for goodness sakes, buy some Silver." It is something you will be able to spend safely, and it can save your life (too.)

[G0ldfinger]

"Store and Save food. It will save you money, and it may save your life. Owning Gold will just get you killed."

Most retarded thing I read in a long time. Especially if you subscribe to the thought that gold will be worthless and food will be all that counts (so the bad guys will try and get it from you).

[drbubb]

Most retarded thing I read in a long time. Especially if you subscribe to the thought that gold will be worthless and food will be all that counts (so the bad guys will try and get it from you).

You should try listening to the man, instead of prejudging him !

 

He is speaking about an Urban environment in a crisis, and he's completely correct.

 

If you "flash your gold" to buy Food, someone may follow you home and shoot you to get the rest. On the other hand, if you stay at home and out of site, you can survive a long time on stored food. If you need to go out, better to have a small amount of silver and a gun

[G0ldfinger]

Also, why are the paper bugs always losing all their marbles at once and expect total Armageddon?

 

You should try listening to the man, instead of prejudging him !

 

He is speaking about an Urban environment in a crisis, and he's completely correct.

 

If you "flash your gold" to buy Food, someone may follow you home and shoot you to get the rest. On the other hand, if you stay at home and out of site, you can survive a long time on stored food. If you need to go out, better to have a small amount of silver and a gun

[halight]

You should try listening to the man, instead of prejudging him !

 

He is speaking about an Urban environment in a crisis, and he's completely correct.

 

If you "flash your gold" to buy Food, someone may follow you home and shoot you to get the rest. On the other hand, if you stay at home and out of site, you can survive a long time on stored food. If you need to go out, better to have a small amount of silver and a gun

 

 

I live in a urban area. If i go a few miles one way i hit the country side. If i go the other way i hit a very poor area, there are also some poor people that live near me, as they have there rent paid for them and choose to live in a nicer home. Now if we go all mad max all them poor folk are going to need food. They dont have any extra income to buy more each week than they need. They dont have the income to buy silver or Gold, (i will say some do seem to wear quite a bit of the stuff) Now every week my wife buys more food than we eat. She always likes to keep the cubards full, so we can always offer a meal to anyone that visits, or as a just in case we can not get any shopping one week. this dose happen as we dont have a car and if we have not done a internet shop that week we soimetimes think stuff it. And dont bother going out anywere to get anything. Now with this extra food taht we have. If we are carefull with it we could last a few weeks. Before we need to bring more in. I have a air rifle, So we can shoot a few Rabbits over in the woods/filds not far from out house if need be too. we have killed and eaten out own food before. Can not do it at the moment as i dont have anywere that i have rights to shoot. Apeart from my Garden. So we could last out a few weeks.

But what about all them poor folk ? They will soon run out of there food. When there money off the Goverment dose not turn up they wont be able top get any more, So as they say "we will just go out on the rob, no what i mean" Well best place to get get free food, Local shops

So they will hit them first.(Along with the rich old folk who have run out of gin!) After they have used all of that food up, it will be on to other peoples homes. The old will get hit first. They will put up less of a fight. But soon it will be anyone who they feel might have food. And afer all anyone who is not out on the streets with them looting must have food.

So stock pileing food could very well also get you killed.

My plan if we do get all mad max is to get the hell out of here! Right out deep into the countryside. About 10 miles from here my mom and dad have a hoilday place out in the country. Its only small but it will do. I also have friends that live near there too. And there is some safty in numbers. But this still is not far enough out for me. By the holday place there is a smmall market town as more and more people start to leave the built up areas they will head out to the county. Small towns like this will be over run. I would probley only stop there a few days. tHe little town sits right on one of the UKs big rivers. It would be my plan to get a boat.(may need to steal one. If no one will sell one) I would then head out on the river to get deeper out into the country side.

What will i do after that ? Not a clue.

But i do know that owning a boat could get you killed too. Anything thats of worth to someone else in a mad max world could get you killed.

[geisaver]

Tax free:

 

EXEMPTING GOLD, PRECIOUS METALS FROM GST

 

Singapore will exempt investment-grade gold and other precious metals from goods and services tax (GST) to facilitate the development of gold trading. The change is aimed at meeting strong demand for investment-grade gold in Asia.

 

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/highlights-singapores-2012-13-budget-102050314.html

 

Is that like their VAT? What about CGT?

[halight]

Gold Bulls Expand as Paulson Says Buy

 

 

Gold traders are getting more bullish after billionaire hedge-fund manager John Paulson told investors it’s time to buy the metal as protection against inflation caused by government spending.

 

Twelve of 22 surveyed by Bloomberg expect prices to gain next week and five were neutral. Paulson & Co. is already the biggest investor in the SPDR Gold Trust, the largest exchange- traded product backed by bullion, with a stake valued at $2.9 billion, a Securities and Exchange Commission filing Feb. 14 showed. Investors have 2,389.7 metric tons in ETPs, within 0.2 percent of the record reached in December and more than all but four central banks, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

 

Speculators in U.S. gold futures are now their most bullish since September after the Bank of England and Bank of Japan said they will buy more assets and the Federal Reserve said it was considering purchasing more bonds. Central banks are also expanding their bullion reserves, adding 439.7 tons last year, the most in almost five decades. They may buy a similar amount in 2012, the London-based World Gold Council said yesterday.

 

“The appalling state of fiscal finances of most industrial nations does lead to concerns about the possibility of inflation,” said Mark O’Byrne, executive director of Dublin- based GoldCore Ltd., a brokerage that sells everything from quarter-ounce British Sovereigns to 400-ounce bars. “Gold is a crucial diversification given the various risks out there.”

 

 

Please visit site to read more http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-17/gold-traders-get-more-bullish-as-billionaire-paulson-says-buy-commodities.html

[callmejoe]

I live in a urban area. If i go a few miles one way i hit the country side. If i go the other way i hit a very poor area, there are also some poor people that live near me, as they have there rent paid for them and choose to live in a nicer home. Now if we go all mad max all them poor folk are going to need food. They dont have any extra income to buy more each week than they need. They dont have the income to buy silver or Gold, (i will say some do seem to wear quite a bit of the stuff) Now every week my wife buys more food than we eat. She always likes to keep the cubards full, so we can always offer a meal to anyone that visits, or as a just in case we can not get any shopping one week. this dose happen as we dont have a car and if we have not done a internet shop that week we soimetimes think stuff it. And dont bother going out anywere to get anything. Now with this extra food taht we have. If we are carefull with it we could last a few weeks. Before we need to bring more in. I have a air rifle, So we can shoot a few Rabbits over in the woods/filds not far from out house if need be too. we have killed and eaten out own food before. Can not do it at the moment as i dont have anywere that i have rights to shoot. Apeart from my Garden. So we could last out a few weeks.

But what about all them poor folk ? They will soon run out of there food. When there money off the Goverment dose not turn up they wont be able top get any more, So as they say "we will just go out on the rob, no what i mean" Well best place to get get free food, Local shops

So they will hit them first.(Along with the rich old folk who have run out of gin!) After they have used all of that food up, it will be on to other peoples homes. The old will get hit first. They will put up less of a fight. But soon it will be anyone who they feel might have food. And afer all anyone who is not out on the streets with them looting must have food.

So stock pileing food could very well also get you killed.

My plan if we do get all mad max is to get the hell out of here! Right out deep into the countryside. About 10 miles from here my mom and dad have a hoilday place out in the country. Its only small but it will do. I also have friends that live near there too. And there is some safty in numbers. But this still is not far enough out for me. By the holday place there is a smmall market town as more and more people start to leave the built up areas they will head out to the county. Small towns like this will be over run. I would probley only stop there a few days. tHe little town sits right on one of the UKs big rivers. It would be my plan to get a boat.(may need to steal one. If no one will sell one) I would then head out on the river to get deeper out into the country side.

What will i do after that ? Not a clue.

But i do know that owning a boat could get you killed too. Anything thats of worth to someone else in a mad max world could get you killed.

 

 

I saw something just a day or 2 ago about what the UK government is planning to do in such a situation. I didn't post it as I didn't wish to contribute to the fear. But it was on the lines of the government's plans on rounding up people. If I stumble across it again, I might PM you with it (if I remember)

[halight]

I saw something just a day or 2 ago about what the UK government is planning to do in such a situation. I didn't post it as I didn't wish to contribute to the fear. But it was on the lines of the government's plans on rounding up people. If I stumble across it again, I might PM you with it (if I remember)

 

 

Hi mate, Yes if you do see it again, then id like to have aread of it.

[Errol]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umSZOKNHY-M&feature=player_embedded

[drbubb]

Gold Bulls Expand as Paulson Says Buy

 

Gold traders are getting more bullish after billionaire hedge-fund manager John Paulson told investors it’s time to buy the metal as protection against inflation caused by government spending.

 

Twelve of 22 surveyed by Bloomberg expect prices to gain next week and five were neutral. Paulson & Co. is already the biggest investor in the SPDR Gold Trust, the largest exchange-

Let's treat this with a bit a skepticism, shall we not !

=== ===

 

(here's where I am coming from. I am not a Gold Bear, just a would-be-realist):

 

Forgive my incredulity, but the GEI gold bear case often revolves around the 'Dragon family' fighting a war with the Rothschild Illuminati over hordes of secret gold. This isn't healthy scepticism - it's utter bollocks and should be dismissed accordingly.

Don't be ridiculous Quiff.

 

There are plenty of other arguments to be skeptical of the bullish arguments put up by Gold bulls.

 

Here's one of the most obvious, that never gets mentioned by the Bulls:

 

 

+ A few years ago, when gold was truly cheap, you used to hear that through centuries : a gold ounce... "would buy you one good man's suit", and they said: Gold should hold its purchasing power over time. They did not talk about Gold outperforming everything for years and years to come.)

 

Now when Gold would buy one man's suit, or less than one man's suit, you would hear that. Now that a gold ounce can buy 3 or 4 good man's suit, we never hear that.

 

What the Gold cult wants, but never admit is:

 

+ They want and expect Gold to outperform inflation. (it has been doing that since about 2008-9.)

 

How can that happen?

 

1/ Those who hold gold can be persuaded not to sell it, whatever the price

2/ Gold can become a currency, even the preferred currency, and so its value will be set by seigneurage (sp?) that is by gold's usefulness as a medium of exchange

3/ Desperate governments might be persuaded to link their currencies to gold, so then those lucky holders can unload it at/near the top, and take their profits without worrying about triggering a price slide. Back in 1980, after gold hit its peak, the price fell from $850 all the way back to $250 (that's -xx%). The gold bulls always inflate the $850 price, but rarely speak of the subsequent decline

 

You have to ask yourself, who would benefit from a huge price rally in gold, and protection from a subsequent decline?

 

The big beneficiaries are not going to be gold-bug individuals of the type who post on this thread, it would be institutions that control 1,000's or 10,000's of MT. And if there are institutions out there that control 100,000's of MT of Gold, then they would be the huge beneficiaries.

 

Personally, I don't find it hard to believe that such institutions have already compromised some (even most) of the gold gurus leading the gold cult. I believe that GEI would be "on the side of the angels" if it fights that pernicious influence.

[Perishabull]

pernicious

 

How can you frame it as being so when the conclusion hasn't yet been reached?

 

Perhaps the angels are a freudian slip as opposed to a calculated manipulation.

 

The suit argument has always been pure nonsense since there are many orders of magnitude between a cheap "good" suit and an expensive one, since one's value judgement is likely to be referenced by his financial disposition and the perception of what constitutes a "good" suit is likely to be highly variable.

[romans holiday]

Personally, I don't find it hard to believe that such institutions have already compromised some (even most) of the gold gurus leading the gold cult. I believe that GEI would be "on the side of the angels" if it fights that pernicious influence.

Moralism on both sides of the debate about gold needs to be dropped. The case for or against gold should be looked at cooly and rationally, without prejudice and without emotion. Rational investors look at what is and what is becoming, not at what ought to be.