G0ldfinger Posted June 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Seems Bernanke speek can still unfluence the USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Thyme Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Gold sure is getting hosed . . . Let's see if support holds . . . if not, we're in trouble . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
last_ninja Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Meanwhile there wasn't an effective system for financing capital projects. Which is why usury and the issuing of shares became more prevalent after the middle ages. There's a degree to which these were the financial factors behind the industrial revolution, all that 'token money' which helped to build the railways, canals etc. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jun08/6274 This article talks about the technological singularity that some are expecting as similar to the industrial revolution as a stage in human progress. It mentions that no one thing was responsible for the industrial revolution. Perhaps fiat currency was one of the many necessary things that came as part of the change, just as a further progress will demand an entirely new form of currency again soon. Maybe fiat can only work in an era of small governments and a relatively slow pace of commerce. In a time of globalisation, increasing powerful money issuers, increasing velocity something new may be necessary, technologically advanced enough to reflect the era that demands it. How about bank notes made of nanobots? This way currency might not only represent work, but could also do the work - the ultimate guarantee of value. A chest of drawers would cost ten pounds, because a ten pound note would actually build you a chest of drawers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Seems Bernanke speek can still unfluence the USD. A brief lift in the dollar, brief fall in Gold Look at GDX, as it has recovered the drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marceau Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The miners have barely sold off at all. They certainly don't seem to believe today's drop is for real. I wish I could be as confident, I have a feeling we're going for $850 this week. Dry powder ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/jun08/6274 This article talks about the technological singularity that some are expecting as similar to the industrial revolution as a stage in human progress. It mentions that no one thing was responsible for the industrial revolution. Perhaps fiat currency was one of the many necessary things that came as part of the change, just as a further progress will demand an entirely new form of currency again soon. Maybe fiat can only work in an era of small governments and a relatively slow pace of commerce. In a time of globalisation, increasing powerful money issuers, increasing velocity something new may be necessary, technologically advanced enough to reflect the era that demands it. Interesting - I agree that the fact that fiat was part of the industrial era doesn't mean that it's always the right choice, and that there were many other factors at work. Apart from anything else, fiat and central banking does tend to foster a climate of "perpetual growth" and as we reach the end of oil, that might be fairly calamitous. How about bank notes made of nanobots? This way currency might not only represent work, but could also do the work - the ultimate guarantee of value. A chest of drawers would cost ten pounds, because a ten pound note would actually build you a chest of drawers. Nice idea, but might be a few years off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpig Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK jokes over, can someone please tell the US to STOP knocking down the POG! This is getting boring... It's like coming home after a hard days work to find your house on fire... Are there any current estimates as to how long the supplies will last before they run out of physical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marceau Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Silver is truly deranged today, started selling off well before gold and has now gone in completely the opposite direction again. It's already recovered all of it's earlier losses and is still gaining ground, could it be about to do something special to the upside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConvertedGoldBug Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have a few questions about BullionVault.... just been looking at their website, but need to spend more time reading in-depth... in the meantime, if anyone can give me some quick answers. 1. What country (i.e. Zurich, London, New York) did you choose to hold your gold relative to your own location? If it is different to where you live, why did you choose a different country (this question is more for those who live outside of one of those 3 specified locations). 2. What's the minimum investment amount? 3. I understand you pay by bank transfer... is this the same when you wish to withdraw funds (i.e. can you transfer back directly into your bank account, or do they have to send you a cheque in the post)? 4. Do you invest the full amount, or do you have to leave a small cash holding to pay storage fees/charges? 5. If you wanted to try and time the market, can you sell and hold cash before going back in again, or is it not worth it with dealing charges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 OK jokes over, can someone please tell the US to STOP knocking down the POG! This is getting boring... It's like coming home after a hard days work to find your house on fire... Are there any current estimates as to how long the supplies will last before they run out of physical? Im beginning to see this differently. I think they manipulate the price up and down so as to sell on the highs and buy back on the lows. Then there are the up legs that adjust the price of gold. And then its back to the routine of harvesting profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have a few questions about BullionVault.... just been looking at their website, but need to spend more time reading in-depth... in the meantime, if anyone can give me some quick answers. 1. What country (i.e. Zurich, London, New York) did you choose to hold your gold relative to your own location? If it is different to where you live, why did you choose a different country (this question is more for those who live outside of one of those 3 specified locations). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I chose Zürich as its the most popular so I guess it will be the easiest to sell in. Also there is less chance of the vault being raided by the "police" I got a price for the Brittanias btw. 50 x 2008 Name: Silver coin "Brittannia 1 Ounce 2 Pounds" (Great Britain) (Part No. 20901) Price: 12.50 Pounds VAT: 43.75 Pounds (7%) Quantity: 50 Total: 668.75 Pounds Shipping price: 11.85 Pounds TOTAL: 680.60 Pounds That makes them £13.38 each at todays prices. China pandas are £13.18 each for comparison. I think they are quite "reasonable" so I'm going to buy 50 of them but she said that she can get some more. I ve seen them sell for £13.50 - £17.00 + £1.50 P&P. http://search-completed.ebay.co.uk/search/...o%3D2&fgtp= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malco Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Interesting - I agree that the fact that fiat was part of the industrial era doesn't mean that it's always the right choice, and that there were many other factors at work. Apart from anything else, fiat and central banking does tend to foster a climate of "perpetual growth" and as we reach the end of oil, that might be fairly calamitous. Nice idea, but might be a few years off. So far as I am aware, it is only in the last 40 years that we have gone to an all Fiat money system. Prior to that, currencies were either directly or indirectly held in a gold-based framework. Britain was on the Gold Standard until the First World War. Thus, during most of the hectic phase of industrialisation, gold was the cuurency, not Fiat. I am not making a value judgement here, just a matter of observation. Your graph puts the start of industrialisation as 1600. I think that is a mite early. The real breakthrough came with the first steam engines, at the turn of the C18th, which were used to draw water from mines and allowed deeper mining. Industrialism is basically about the invention and application of fossil-fired mechanical power. This encourages scale, which in turn encourages specialisation, leading to greater efficiency, provided you have the financial and transport system to concentrate raw materials at factories and then distribute them widely and cheaply to Customers. Add in a few other fundamentals like mass production (Marc Brunel and the block factory in the Napoleonic wars) and the thread-cutting lathe (Henry Maudesley, again in the Napoleonic Wars) and you have the basis of magnifying output by many orders of magnitude. All this happen under the Gold Standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lardoon Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Silver is truly deranged today, started selling off well before gold and has now gone in completely the opposite direction again. It's already recovered all of it's earlier losses and is still gaining ground Yes - I noticed that also. I havent run any stats but I regularly watch the Gold/Silver ratio and I find it quite rare to see it go up significantly (from around 53.4 this morning to 52.5 now) in a down day for gold.. could it be about to do something special to the upside? yes pls that'd be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConvertedGoldBug Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I got a price for the Brittanias btw. 50 x 2008 ... That makes them £13.38 each at todays prices. Ouch... that's like a 50% premium over current spot price!! Be nice to get a few, but it seems so much easier (i.e. cheaper) for those in the US to stack silver. I think for us in the UK, silver is better for coin collecting... Think I'll just go with BullionVault for a few grand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 So far as I am aware, it is only in the last 40 years that we have gone to an all Fiat money system. Prior to that, currencies were either directly or indirectly held in a gold-based framework. Britain was on the Gold Standard until the First World War. Thus, during most of the hectic phase of industrialisation, gold was the cuurency, not Fiat. I am not making a value judgement here, just a matter of observation. Your graph puts the start of industrialisation as 1600. I think that is a mite early. The real breakthrough came with the first steam engines, at the turn of the C18th, which were used to draw water from mines and allowed deeper mining. Industrialism is basically about the invention and application of fossil-fired mechanical power. This encourages scale, which in turn encourages specialisation, leading to greater efficiency, provided you have the financial and transport system to concentrate raw materials at factories and then distribute them widely and cheaply to Customers. Add in a few other fundamentals like mass production (Marc Brunel and the block factory in the Napoleonic wars) and the thread-cutting lathe (Henry Maudesley, again in the Napoleonic Wars) and you have the basis of magnifying output by many orders of magnitude. All this happen under the Gold Standard. I know. That's why I started out talking about usury, the issuing of shares and fractional banking. I used terms loosely in that post, but it was all the various kinds of adaptations from a pure system of coinage with no lending and no fractional reserves that I was referring to as underpinning the industrial revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Ouch... that's like a 50% premium over current spot price!! Be nice to get a few, but it seems so much easier (i.e. cheaper) for those in the US to stack silver. I think for us in the UK, silver is better for coin collecting... Think I'll just go with BullionVault for a few grand. They are more to buy than spot but they can also be sold for more than spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Ouch... that's like a 50% premium over current spot price!! Be nice to get a few, but it seems so much easier (i.e. cheaper) for those in the US to stack silver. I think for us in the UK, silver is better for coin collecting... Think I'll just go with BullionVault for a few grand. I'd always recommend holding a stash of silver coins close at hand as they are the ultimate hyperinflation hedge imo. I'm not planning to do any weekly shopping with Krugerrands. Forget about the VAT. Silver is very very good value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConvertedGoldBug Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'd always recommend holding a stash of silver coins close at hand as they are the ultimate hyperinflation hedge imo. I'm not planning to do any weekly shopping with Krugerrands. Forget about the VAT. Silver is very very good value. So you don't reckon you'd be able to spend SAE's in a UK shop? Surely silver is silver, though... hmm, I guess we're back to my original question from last week. Maybe 1/4oz Krugerrands for a monthly shopping trip? But these aren't UK coins either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 So you don't reckon you'd be able to spend SAE's in a UK shop? Surely silver is silver, though... hmm, I guess we're back to my original question from last week. Maybe 1/4oz Krugerrands for a monthly shopping trip? But these aren't UK coins either... The entire economic landscape will have changed a lot by then. I'd imagine most of our favourite retailers would be non existant by then. But silver eagles will be ideal in barter situations as would any recognised silver bullion coin... Gold is limited for these kind of transactions unless you are bartering for large items such as cars or real estate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have a few questions about BullionVault.... just been looking at their website, but need to spend more time reading in-depth... in the meantime, if anyone can give me some quick answers. 1. What country (i.e. Zurich, London, New York) did you choose to hold your gold relative to your own location? If it is different to where you live, why did you choose a different country (this question is more for those who live outside of one of those 3 specified locations). 2. What's the minimum investment amount? 3. I understand you pay by bank transfer... is this the same when you wish to withdraw funds (i.e. can you transfer back directly into your bank account, or do they have to send you a cheque in the post)? 4. Do you invest the full amount, or do you have to leave a small cash holding to pay storage fees/charges? 5. If you wanted to try and time the market, can you sell and hold cash before going back in again, or is it not worth it with dealing charges? The minimum investment amount is 1 gram which they give you free anything above that. £20? Bank transfer in and out of same bank account. Fees charged and taken when you sell I worked out that if you sell and the price of gold drops $150 you covered the fees. Am I right about this?? Anything more than that is profit although I have not done it yet! Planning to give it a go. Who is Thod in HPC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsta Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Please tell me that Gold and Silver's little sulk isn't down to the markets liking what they heard from Bernanke yesterday in Spain!? I haven't read the full transcript of his speech (I'm on holiday, after all!) but this dissection by Market Oracle makes great (but worrying) reading: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4939.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Netwriter Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Sorry, very little time for posting at the moment ! I suggest the original Mike Shedlock article, as you can also read the comments http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...or-housing.html Up to 97 so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Netwriter Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I could not bring myself to watch the whole program, too many 'soon to be hero's despite them being down trodden / persecuted / involved in mistakes that killed people before (delete as appropriate)' and not enough DISASTER ! And boy, don't FEMA look really cool and efficient, evacuating all of Hawaii in hours, having real time thermal imaging of anywhere in the US. I wonder why they didn't use that office and those workers in New Orleans? On a slightly different note, I saw the other day that you said in NZ we have a greater need for 4wd vehicles than elsewhere due to the crappy driving abilities of others and the more common 'mettalled' roads around. I have been thinking about that and would argue that the vaste majority of people only ever drive around town here and could easily get smaller cars. And if they all had smaller cars then there would be no need to worry about them crashing in to you (well any more than if everyone has 4x4's)! Just a thought. Sorry, shouldn't hijack the gold thread, keep up the good work all guru's out there, very interesting discussions as always and although I have very little background in PM's I think we might be building up energy for a big push up. $1000 by end of July, rest there till Sep then onwards and upwards. I watched the whole thing. I deserve a medal The list of bad scenes/plot bits is so long........ I agree if everyone got small cars we'd all be able to use them - safely. There is quite a bit more 4x4 use down here though (well I assume). Many times I wish we had one when we come to a river access that's not good enough for us. I think you can tell the real 4x4s from the school run ones. The real ones are dirty, a bit bashed about, and look properly built for the job. The others are just big shiny metal boxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marceau Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Please tell me that Gold and Silver's little sulk isn't down to the markets liking what they heard from Bernanke yesterday in Spain!? I haven't read the full transcript of his speech (I'm on holiday, after all!) but this dissection by Market Oracle makes great (but worrying) reading: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article4939.html I think PMs took a hit precisely because of that speech. We all know there isn't a cat in hell's chance that Bernanke will raise rates, but for the time being the market still seems to be buying in to all of his empty rhetoric (how many times can he cry wolf before the markets finally start to ignore him) and that, i'm afraid could spell short term trouble for gold, silver and particularly oil. Bullshit it may be, but the market seems to love it. The biggest mystery is why stocks held up so well, surely the prospect of Bernanke forcing a bit of interest rate 'cold turkey' should have sent them diving, but no. The market will use any excuse to bash commodities at the moment, but can't bear to look at the real problems facing the economy and their precious indices. The elephant in the room is still there and still growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelybin Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 The precious metal getting ever more precious.... From Money Week http://www.moneyweek.com/file/48194/the-pr...e-precious.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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