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seizure - i think this is unlikely, but some people recommend physical gold and look after it yourself for this reason.

I don't do this because

1. i don't want to store gold in my home or in a deposit box

2. if you do want to sell quickly, it might be more difficult with physical.

 

BullionVault.com - you can buy gold in their New York, London and Zurich vaults - many people go for Zurich due to it being the least likely to be seized. I have some in both London and Zurich.

 

When to buy/sell I think we all worry about that, also the % of your wealth to allocate the gold?

The worst case scenario of a massive collaspe in the POG, I *hope* would only happen after an obvious bubble like growth.

 

Thinking of owning some gold as an insurance policy against eveything going tits up gives me some comfort.

 

Think James Turk said in some interview that he thinks there will be a fundamental change to the monetary system soon and the new system will in some way involve gold, so there wont be a need to sell it.

Not taken by this seizure argument. I think it UK gold seizure will be clearly public i.e. not under the guise of money laundering companies before the Swiss join in. not sure how they would make gold illegal? Surely they can't confiscate gold jewellery and newly minted commemorative gold coins etc. Well we shall see.

 

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Is this the Big One today? Where's the PPT? What's the volume? Why don't my charts work? Waahahaha.

 

 

If the DOW drops below 12000 again all of this 'strong dollar' nonsense will disappear immediately. I'm still not sure what the Fed and the treasury were trying to achieve with all of those hollow words. As Jim Sinclair said, Bernanke has backed himself into a corner and set himself up to look very foolish indeed.

 

The DOW is on life support and its supposed buddy Bernanke starts talking about cutting off the interest rate power supply that keeps the machine going. What did he expect to happen here? Did he really think the market was now strong enough to go it alone without his bailouts and artificially low rates? If so he is even more of a halfwit than I originally thought he was.

 

I really do hope they talk gold down to $850 now, it will be the buy of the decade as far as I'm concerned.

 

Edit: Chances of $850 diminishing already, gold back over $880 with some strength. Looks like buying the 'v' (or fishing line) has worked again.

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If the DOW drops below 12000 again all of this 'strong dollar' nonsense will disappear immediately. I'm still not sure what the Fed and the treasury were trying to achieve with all of those hollow words. As Jim Sinclair said, Bernanke has backed himself into a corner and set himself up to look very foolish indeed.

 

The DOW is on life support and its supposed buddy Bernanke starts talking about cutting off the interest rate power supply that keeps the machine going. What did he expect to happen here? Did he really think the market was now strong enough to go it alone without his bailouts and artificially low rates? If so he is even more of a halfwit than I originally thought he was.

 

I really do hope they talk gold down to $850 now, it will be the buy of the decade as far as I'm concerned.

 

Edit: Chances of $850 diminishing already, gold back over $880 with some strength. Looks like buying the 'v' (or fishing line) has worked again.

 

They are desperate. I have no doubt. Paulson is not doing anything, that is why Bernanke spoke about the dollar (which the Fed never does) and then the top dog Bush is even parroting on about a strong dollar. Higher interest rates are not an option - at least in the Anglo countries.

 

The perfect storm is upon us.

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Thxs guys. Level-headed, non-ramping, deep thought from all. Appreciated.

 

It will take a couple to weeks to get the gold accounts opened, so I hope nothing takes off just yet.

FYI, opening a GoldMoney account is slightly more of a pain than opening a BullionVault account because GoldMoney require the proof of identity documentation you supply to be certified by a lawyer / some other types of professional. I use both; they each have their pros and cons. GoldMoney enables you to buy silver as well, pays interest on cash deposits and offers a choice of fiat currencies to hold your cash in. BullionVault have an interesting 'internal market' which as i understand it (in theory) allows you achieve a lower spread between buy and sell prices, should be interesting in trading gold rather than following a buy&hold strategy. Both have vaults in UK and CH.

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Oil taking off once more. Quick Ben, start talking like Volker again! What do you mean it's not working? Talk harder!

 

At this rate they'll have to broadcast Paulson and Bernanke jawboning to the masses 24 hrs a day via a network of specially build cartel minarets.

 

On second thoughts, why bother, they already have 24 hr dollar propaganda on CNBC.

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Oil taking off once more. Quick Ben, start talking like Volker again! What do you mean it's not working? Talk harder!

 

At this rate they'll have to broadcast Paulson and Bernanke jawboning to the masses 24 hrs a day via a network of specially build cartel minarets.

 

On second thoughts, why bother, they already have 24 hr dollar propaganda on CNBC.

Media opinion can turn on a sixpence. Official inflation figures are already being treated as comedy fiction when only a few months ago they were regarded as undeniable truth

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FYI, opening a GoldMoney account is slightly more of a pain than opening a BullionVault account because GoldMoney require the proof of identity documentation you supply to be certified by a lawyer / some other types of professional. I use both; they each have their pros and cons. GoldMoney enables you to buy silver as well, pays interest on cash deposits and offers a choice of fiat currencies to hold your cash in. BullionVault have an interesting 'internal market' which as i understand it (in theory) allows you achieve a lower spread between buy and sell prices, should be interesting in trading gold rather than following a buy&hold strategy. Both have vaults in UK and CH.

 

Maybe I'm lazy - but I was more than happy with the due diligence carried out by others on this (and other) boards, so opted to use Bullionvault. I found the process extremely simple - opened my account online, transfered (via BACS) some cash and bought gold in the Zurich vault within 3 days of opening. I then uploaded proof of identity a week or so later (took pics of passport and bank statement using digital camera). Very easy. Would recommend.

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Gloomberg:

HBOS Falls Below 4 Billion-Pound Rights Offer Price (Update1)

 

By Jon Menon

 

June 11 (Bloomberg) -- HBOS Plc, the U.K.'s biggest mortgage lender, fell below the price of its 4 billion-pound ($7.9 billion) rights offer in London trading amid concern a slowdown in the real estate market may erode earnings.

...

The Edinburgh-based bank's offer is fully underwritten by Morgan Stanley and Dresdner Kleinwort Ltd.

 

Too bad, really. What now? :o

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It will take a couple to weeks to get the gold accounts opened, so I hope nothing takes off just yet.

Did I see right & future prices are not alarming?

You might like to consider some silver also.

 

I regard silver as a speculation. It may at some stage do extraordinarily well, but maybe not.

 

As far as I know, silver confiscation has never occured. ;)

 

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Gloomberg:

 

 

Too bad, really. What now? :o

 

Copy of my post from one of cgnao's threads, HBOS are going to reveal an awful lot about their current situation by what they do next:

 

Closed at 260p, well below the issue price. Looks like HBOS have screwed this up massively. Good. Serves them right for trying to fool the market for so long. If they hadn't been in complete denial that there was even a problem they may have been able to complete this issue at a far better price earlier in the year. As it stands they are now going to struggle massively to get any kind of financing from existing shareholders.

 

It's alright though, according to their board they don't need this money at all! Well we shall see if that's true over the next few weeks, when their new plans reveal just how far they are prepared to go to get this cash.

 

I see the media are still harping on about insider dealing and wicked bear-raiding speculators being to blame. Funny how those 'wicked' bear raiders that hit HBOS a couple of months ago (of which I suspect many on here played a part, I certainly did) were actually acting on the fundamentals after all.

 

HBOS' bluff has been called by the market. Now we get to see what's in their hand.

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Media opinion can turn on a sixpence. Official inflation figures are already being treated as comedy fiction when only a few months ago they were regarded as undeniable truth

...and the current headline (in a very large font) on Google Finance is:

BMO's Askari sees dollar recovery limited

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The dollar's recent recovery is set to stumble as it becomes clear the Federal Reserve will not raise U.S. interest rates to curb inflation this year because of the troubled housing sector, a top trader said on Wednesday....

 

:lol:

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Has anyone read Nadler's kitco 'analysis' today. It's particularly obnoxious and asinine even by his standards.

 

It reaches the peak of stupidity in the second half, where the crux of his argument for gold to go down is based on the fact that gold newsletters and forums are still too bullish on gold in the face of this correction. Taking his argument to its logical conclusion gold will continue to fall as long as gold bulls are bullish. Yes, it's just as idiotic as it sounds.

 

What an utter buffoon Nadler is. A truly unpolishable turd of a man.

 

Read it and weep:

 

Kitco's Chief Gold 'Analyst' Working Hard to Support his Employer's Primary Product as Usual

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That's an interesting distinction. I'm not convinced that a system of equity shares would have been sufficient to create the industrial revolution and the modern age, or that a fixed money supply is the solution to all financial folly, but I do agree there are slightly different moral aspects to the two forms of lending, and that usury demands an extra level of concern and attention.

 

I'd just see that as an argument for regulating banks strongly in their capital requirements. If you have stringent capital requirements, and don't allow any off-balance sheet malarkey, then you have the advantages of a flexible money supply, but far less incentive for insane short-termism on the banks part.

 

The central bank's role as lender of last resort only makes sense if the central bank/government also makes it clear that this only applies to banks who comply with strict rules of behaviour. What we have seen in the last decade is an abdication of this responsibility by government, who fell for the ludicrous theory that only bankers know how they should be regulated.

Sorry, a long weekend got in the way of replying to you on this. Hopefully nobody minds my revisiting these philosophical discussions... :)

 

I'd certainly agree with you that mechanisms for efficient and effective lending of capital for productive purposes are necessary, but I don't see that much evidence however that fractional reserve banking has achieved this in practice.

 

The deliberate confusion of money with IOU's, as encouraged by bankers for centuries, has resulted in an efficient system of exchange of goods and services (money) being hijacked by banks for investment purposes (as capital for usurious lending), much to their benefit and to the detriment of everyone else. This was recognised by the Glass-Steagall Act, requiring separation between investment and commercial banking activities, which was unsurprisingly repealed after much lobbying by banks.

 

By advertising checking accounts as being a form of bailment (where the account holder has legal possession) by using such words as 'deposit' and 'banknote', but actually entering the account holder into an investment contract (where the bank has legal possession), the banks are committing fraud IMO (at least morally). This is only further confirmed by governments then 'guaranteeing' that such depositors won't lose their money in the event of a bank run. Easy access to such a flood of capital then results in inappropriate investment decisions, especially when coupled with the lack of care taken if one can lend it out on usurious terms. Instead of concentrating investment in productive activities it hugely dilutes it with massive asset speculation, and resulting misery for the general population. Even worse, since the introduction of central banks, every business cycle the banks are bailed out by the central banks printing more money (with the banks' dodgy overpriced assets as collateral), and every cycle this effect gets bigger.

 

As for governments/central banks curbing the excesses of the banking industry, well that's a laugh as they are the worst offenders of the lot :P. Central banking allows the state easy access to money, through legalised counterfeiting, to invest in non-productive activities such as bureaucracy and warfare. By raising money by printing yet more of it (with our future taxes as collateral) the state can hide its profligate ways because as it no longer has to raise taxes (always unpopular) but can instead hide behind inflation, and blame the whole thing on 'those nasty speculators and producers restricting supply and raising prices'. It's just an evolution of the old trick of currency debasement practiced by countless governments, except these days they don't even need to pay for the lead to mix in with the gold (too expensive now!), and with PFI they've even stolen a trick or two from the bankers ('off-balance sheet malarkey').

 

I'm not saying that gold as money is the solution to all this, but IMHO the problem is not one of too little capital available to invest but too much. The main effect of the banking system as it is set up at the moment is to rob the poor to pay the rich, without the poor noticing.

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Repeat after me:

There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no ...

 

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=272211

June 6, 2008

 

MEMORANDUM TO ALL

AMERICAN EAGLE

AUTHORIZED PURCHASERS

 

FROM: Cathy Laperle

Team Lead, Bullion Program

United States Mint

 

SUBJECT: American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin Update

 

The United States Mint has been informed by its silver blank vendors that the volume of blanks they will be shipping to us in the coming weeks will be significantly reduced.

 

Specifically, the quantities they will ship to us during the week of June 9 are expected to be less than half the quantities they shipped to us during the week of June 2. Our vendors, however, expect to be able to make incremental increases in supplies each week thereafter. In the mean time, the significant reduction in the number of blanks they supply to us will, of course, directly affect the quantity of coins we can make available for allocation to our Authorized Purchasers.

 

Accordingly, the United States Mint will continue allocating American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins per the process initiated on April 21, 2008.

 

As you know, in the first six months of 2008 production, the United States Mint produced more American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins (10.07 million) than we did during the entire 12-month period of 2007 (9.03 million). The United States Mint stands ready to continue this high level of production as additional blanks become available from our suppliers.

 

The United States Mint is making every effort to increase its acquisition of silver bullion blanks that meet the specifications and requirements of the law. In our efforts to meet unprecedented demand, the United States Mint is again preparing a request for proposals for additional silver blank suppliers. Additionally, we are not using incoming supplies of silver blanks to produce numismatic versions of these coins (American Eagle Silver Proof and Uncirculated Coins); all incoming inventory is being used solely for silver bullion coins during this reduced supply period.

 

Thank you for your patience and your continued support of the United States Mint American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin Program.

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Repeat after me:

There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no shortage of physical silver. There is no ...

 

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=272211

Hmmm

 

are we closer to the end game than i was thinking

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Moneyweek $8500 gold?, bonds in a bubble.

 

Link

 

EDIT: oops should read who wrote that...

 

more and more people are calling for multiple thousand gold, heres one from dailywealth I received today

 

20,000 gold:

http://www.dailywealth.com/archive/2008/jun/2008_jun_11.asp

 

since the last year, the highest top i seen announced for oil was 1,000 and for gold 50,000 , there seem to be no top to hard assets

 

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Hi, no time for a long answer, but a few quick points:

 

The deliberate confusion of money with IOU's, as encouraged by bankers for centuries, has resulted in an efficient system of exchange of goods and services (money) being hijacked by banks for investment purposes (as capital for usurious lending), much to their benefit and to the detriment of everyone else. This was recognised by the Glass-Steagall Act, requiring separation between investment and commercial banking activities, which was unsurprisingly repealed after much lobbying by banks.

 

I agree the repeal of Glass Steagall was a scandal.

 

Even worse, since the introduction of central banks, every business cycle the banks are bailed out by the central banks printing more money (with the banks' dodgy overpriced assets as collateral), and every cycle this effect gets bigger.

 

Not convinced by the idea it gets worse every cycle. The 1970s was pretty awful - some of the fall-out depends on other conditions. but this is an awful one largely because governments (and the electorates and media who should monitor them) have been unusually supine in the face of banking power.

 

Central banking allows the state easy access to money, through legalised counterfeiting, to invest in non-productive activities such as bureaucracy and warfare. By raising money by printing yet more of it (with our future taxes as collateral) the state can hide its profligate ways because as it no longer has to raise taxes (always unpopular) but can instead hide behind inflation, and blame the whole thing on 'those nasty speculators and producers restricting supply and raising prices'. It's just an evolution of the old trick of currency debasement practiced by countless governments, except these days they don't even need to pay for the lead to mix in with the gold (too expensive now!)...

 

Some truth in that, although I'm less bothered by it than some. I think state spending and modest inflation can be perfectly acceptable as I don't regard protecting rich people's wealth as the most important aim of society. But the danger of allowing deficit spending and inflation is that it does tempt politicians to abuse the opportunities it creates.

 

and with PFI they've even stolen a trick or two from the bankers ('off-balance sheet malarkey').

 

Totally agree with that though - it's the Enronisation of government.

 

I'm not saying that gold as money is the solution to all this, but IMHO the problem is not one of too little capital available to invest but too much. The main effect of the banking system as it is set up at the moment is to rob the poor to pay the rich, without the poor noticing.

 

I think this is the key point for me - there is no perfect solution. Whatever system we have, we need to aim to restrain the worst excesses of bankers, governments, the ruling class, whatever. I'd argue that the main effect of almost any political system is for the ruling classes to protect their own interests regardless of the costs to the poor or non-ruling class. The modern system is a bit more subtle in the way it achieves this than aristocracy or monarchy, and better at placating the underclass, but the basic drive is the same.

 

It's not the monetary system itself which is corrupt but the people who administer it. There were plenty of corrupt and awful states who had gold coinage, after all.

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