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As an avid reader of the gold thread on HPC and now on here, I'm writing my first post in a state of panic.

 

Just checked my leveraged silver ETC expecting to find a huge increase and found all trading has been suspended. It transpires these are by not backed by physical, but by the ropey, teetering on the verse of bankrupty AIG!

 

Anyone else got ETC's?

Horse - don't worry. It all OK

 

The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile.

 

And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out

 

The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt

 

As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!!

 

 

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Anyone care to make a prediction about whether gold blows through 850 or falls again? I can't quite see what event caused the sudden spike, and it seems rather too precipitous to be a general combination of things. Sounds like serious upheavals in Russia, could this be the cause?

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Yes, I'm hoping they will start trading again tomorrow, I'm not sure how long that FED loan will last, especially with the big increase in gold and silver combined with a lot of people wanting to cash in their ETCs

 

I should have really known better, I'd always planned on getting out of ETCs into physical when things started going really pear shaped, just hope I'll still have that option.

 

We will see tomorrow!

 

 

Horse - don't worry. It all OK

 

The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile.

 

And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out

 

The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt

 

As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!!

 

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Horse - don't worry. It all OK

 

The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile.

 

And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out

 

The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt

 

As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!!

leveraged silver is i'm afraid

I have natural gas which i only bought on the 3rd!

I assumed it was part of the energy and backed by shell, its only when something like this happens that you learn to look for the small details

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Horse - don't worry. It all OK

 

The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile.

 

And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out

 

The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt

 

As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!!

SORRY - I NEED TO CHANGE AND CLARIFY THIS....

 

I just noticed you referred to a "leveraged" silver ETC. That places it in the same category as the AIG backed commodities ETFs, but its still no cause for concern (for the reasons I gave)

 

To make 110% sure of all this, I've just come off the phone with Nigel Phelan from ETF Securities (one of their top guys)

 

The main points to come out of that discussion were:

 

- Now that AIG has been made stable (at least for a year or two) ETF Securities has been able to reach an agreement with the market makers such that normal trading will resume tomorrow morning

 

- That trading will be based upon the price of the underlying commodity or index, regardless of whatever pannick selling might take place

 

- Had AIG gone bust, investors would have lost all the money that was backed by AIG. ETF Securities is now restructuring the basis of their AIG backed ETFs such that the investor would not loose the money should AIG ever go bust in the future

 

- Nigel is one of the few people that has been privaledged enough to actually see the silver that DOES EXIST and which backs their unleveraged silver ETF.

 

- That silver belongs to the investors, and so even if the banks that stores it should go bust, then its value will be returned to the investors

 

 

EDIT: I wish to add how impressed I am with the professionalism of ETF Securities. They have had top people phone me back twice these last two days, and on each occasion given clear and complete answers to my various questions. Shame they can't be put in charge of the government :)

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Anyone care to make a prediction about whether gold blows through 850 or falls again? I can't quite see what event caused the sudden spike, and it seems rather too precipitous to be a general combination of things. Sounds like serious upheavals in Russia, could this be the cause?

Oh, just went to 855. Mental!

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- Nigel is one of the few people that has been privaledged enough to actually see the silver that DOES EXIST and which backs their unleveraged silver ETF.

 

- That silver belongs to the investors, and so even if the banks that stores it should go bust, then its value will be returned to the investors

 

Thanks for that, explains a lot, i was always thinking that it the physical play might be a very small fraction of the real thing, and then filled up with air or something.

 

 

BTW just noticed one of Dr's markers being sailed through. Bye Bye 850, lets hope it holds now, once the presidents club or whatever they are called come back from turning on the printing press they will get back to their daily smackdown.

 

From total despair yesterday to today.

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Honest to God...

 

At mid-day today my mother in law bought 1kg of gold intending it to ultimately be a gift for my kids. To buy and make this gift was her decision, but to buy at these prices was based on advice that my wife and I gave her yesterday. I am so glad she didn't wait a few more days :)

 

When we phoned to tell her what had happened this afternoon, she didn't believe us :lol:

 

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If the silver belongs to the investor, what security is used to obtain the leverage?

The silver belongs to the investor in the case of the unleveraged ETFs

 

The leveraged and inverse ETFs are simply tracking indexes produced by AIG. Investors in those would have lost all their money should AIG not have been baled out. But as I mentioned, ETF Securities is now going to change the relationship with AIG (or perhaps move to another partner) so that risk is eliminated in the future.

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