Pluto Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Pluto! Good to see you! AIG wanted 20B last week, then it raised this number to 40B a few days later. The Fed looked at its books over the weekend and realized they need 80B. The 80B is also wrong. The final number will make grown men cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitbigt Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 As an avid reader of the gold thread on HPC and now on here, I'm writing my first post in a state of panic. Just checked my leveraged silver ETC expecting to find a huge increase and found all trading has been suspended. It transpires these are by not backed by physical, but by the ropey, teetering on the verse of bankrupty AIG! Anyone else got ETC's? Horse - don't worry. It all OK The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile. And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexreeve Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Anyone care to make a prediction about whether gold blows through 850 or falls again? I can't quite see what event caused the sudden spike, and it seems rather too precipitous to be a general combination of things. Sounds like serious upheavals in Russia, could this be the cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horse Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Yes, I'm hoping they will start trading again tomorrow, I'm not sure how long that FED loan will last, especially with the big increase in gold and silver combined with a lot of people wanting to cash in their ETCs I should have really known better, I'd always planned on getting out of ETCs into physical when things started going really pear shaped, just hope I'll still have that option. We will see tomorrow! Horse - don't worry. It all OK The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile. And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwizzie Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Horse - don't worry. It all OK The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile. And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!! leveraged silver is i'm afraid I have natural gas which i only bought on the 3rd! I assumed it was part of the energy and backed by shell, its only when something like this happens that you learn to look for the small details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creditcrunch Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Blimey gold shooting right past $850!! $1000 before the sunsets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitbigt Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Horse - don't worry. It all OK The silver ETF is not part of the AIG debacle, there is a general lockdown in ETFs just now, whilst the markets are so volatile. And even if it was (e.g., like the AIG commodity ETF/Cs) that also will settle down in new few days as market makers get back to trading those securities now that AIG has been baled out The only thing you might worry about according to some on this board (but let me state: I also have a lot in silver ETFs and am not worried) is whether there is real silver backing those ETFs. If I am to worry about anything, it would be the question of who legally 'owns' that silver. If its you - then everything is really OK. But if it is Barclays (who I believe holds the silver) then should Barclays go bankrupt you (and I) would be considered unsecured creditors and we'd loose the lot ..if Barclays goes bankrupt As always, DYOR, as I'm not an expert!!! SORRY - I NEED TO CHANGE AND CLARIFY THIS.... I just noticed you referred to a "leveraged" silver ETC. That places it in the same category as the AIG backed commodities ETFs, but its still no cause for concern (for the reasons I gave) To make 110% sure of all this, I've just come off the phone with Nigel Phelan from ETF Securities (one of their top guys) The main points to come out of that discussion were: - Now that AIG has been made stable (at least for a year or two) ETF Securities has been able to reach an agreement with the market makers such that normal trading will resume tomorrow morning - That trading will be based upon the price of the underlying commodity or index, regardless of whatever pannick selling might take place - Had AIG gone bust, investors would have lost all the money that was backed by AIG. ETF Securities is now restructuring the basis of their AIG backed ETFs such that the investor would not loose the money should AIG ever go bust in the future - Nigel is one of the few people that has been privaledged enough to actually see the silver that DOES EXIST and which backs their unleveraged silver ETF. - That silver belongs to the investors, and so even if the banks that stores it should go bust, then its value will be returned to the investors EDIT: I wish to add how impressed I am with the professionalism of ETF Securities. They have had top people phone me back twice these last two days, and on each occasion given clear and complete answers to my various questions. Shame they can't be put in charge of the government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan van der Smut Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 $853, says The Bullion Desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexreeve Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Anyone care to make a prediction about whether gold blows through 850 or falls again? I can't quite see what event caused the sudden spike, and it seems rather too precipitous to be a general combination of things. Sounds like serious upheavals in Russia, could this be the cause? Oh, just went to 855. Mental! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieSays Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 - Nigel is one of the few people that has been privaledged enough to actually see the silver that DOES EXIST and which backs their unleveraged silver ETF. - That silver belongs to the investors, and so even if the banks that stores it should go bust, then its value will be returned to the investors Thanks for that, explains a lot, i was always thinking that it the physical play might be a very small fraction of the real thing, and then filled up with air or something. BTW just noticed one of Dr's markers being sailed through. Bye Bye 850, lets hope it holds now, once the presidents club or whatever they are called come back from turning on the printing press they will get back to their daily smackdown. From total despair yesterday to today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexreeve Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Not much of a fan of rocket imagery, but +$81 (so far) in one day, that pic is totally warranted. EDIT: Particularly nice rocket BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 hehehehe! lift off!! Hang on...... Doooh. I wanted to buy some more coins before they went up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narco Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 This is crazy! Gold moved up so fast without any movement in the dollar. Maybe some large entities knows something big is set to blow up... imminently? Slightly worrying, yet pleasing. Silver has now broken out also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Not much of a fan of rocket imagery, but +$81 (so far) in one day, that pic is totally warranted. EDIT: Particularly nice rocket BTW Yeah, great rocket pic. 858.50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgleeson Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 - That silver belongs to the investors, and so even if the banks that stores it should go bust, then its value will be returned to the investors If the silver belongs to the investor, what security is used to obtain the leverage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitbigt Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Honest to God... At mid-day today my mother in law bought 1kg of gold intending it to ultimately be a gift for my kids. To buy and make this gift was her decision, but to buy at these prices was based on advice that my wife and I gave her yesterday. I am so glad she didn't wait a few more days When we phoned to tell her what had happened this afternoon, she didn't believe us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 I go on a little walk, and what happens? THIS IS IT! The Cartel will be considering what they can do against it RIGHT NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creditcrunch Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 something big is set to blow up... imminently? Slightly worrying, yet pleasing. Mark that comment, you may be right. I won't dare guess whats about to blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexreeve Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Mark that comment, you may be right. I won't dare guess whats about to blow. US Treasuries??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixel8r Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Let's reserve that one for the +$100 days. We are almost there, so far $84.50 up today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakachu Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 oh alright then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwizzie Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Mark that comment, you may be right. I won't dare guess whats about to blow. goldman + morgan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitbigt Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 If the silver belongs to the investor, what security is used to obtain the leverage? The silver belongs to the investor in the case of the unleveraged ETFs The leveraged and inverse ETFs are simply tracking indexes produced by AIG. Investors in those would have lost all their money should AIG not have been baled out. But as I mentioned, ETF Securities is now going to change the relationship with AIG (or perhaps move to another partner) so that risk is eliminated in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgleeson Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 goldman + morgan? GS are long gold now no?, they'll be laughing all the way to the bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now