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I would point this out to the mod directly on HPC, who obviously can't spend much of his time on the main forum, but my account has been de-activated for wanting to leave.

 

Brendan McLoughlin doesn't have very much to do with the day-to-day running of HPC. I used to post there under a different name and was barred because someone suggested, during a rather heated debate, that I was a troll. I'd made the best part of 900 posts over a year but the mods refused to reinstate me. I complained to Mr McLoughlin who, to his credit, asked the moderator to reinstate my posting privileges. They didn't and despite further exchange of emails, he simply threw in the towel and concurred that the moderators were, indeed, "a law unto themselves".

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So... donning my "naive cap" for a moment. Why does the government want to medicate us all with fluorine / fluoride?

I remember from GCSE science that the stuff's horrible and will kill you in an instant ... but that it has uses in preventing tooth decay.

 

WTF would they put it in the water supply if it's already in toothpaste?

Because some ppl use fluoride free toothpaste or don't brush their teeth. Cant have the sheeple miss out on their medicine.

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Bringing this thread back On Topic, can I ask why the Dow to Gold ratio is significant?

 

Surely if the Dow goes down further than Gold goes down, then yes, the ratio narrows, but both have still fallen, so what's the big deal?

 

Isn't the idea to make money by Gold going up in value?

 

The dow/gold ratio is significant as it highlights inflation and identifies how the one true currency is beating paper based fiat currencies and fiat finacial instruments (equities).

 

It also acts as an indicator as to when the dow is cheap and gold is expensive, in the last bull a 1:1 ratio is the best it achieved - in a global fiat world this ratio is infinite 1:?

 

The ratio does not necessarily need to be plotted against the dow, it could be plotted against the S&P or the FTSE 100.

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So, presumably, when this graph hits its next trough (or a little before), would be the end of gold's bull run, and the dawn of a new era where, once again, even money carelessly invested in stocks will do reasonably well?

If history repeats itself that might be the case. However, I'm worried about global energy supplies, peak oil in particular - we seem to be at about peak now, give or take a couple of years. The economic ramifications could be unprecedented.

 

Notice that the modern troughs were at ratios of about 2 and about 1 and are pretty sharp. However, if you look at gold versus houses the trough is not so sharp. Basically I'm saying (if history repeats) that if you are trying to time when to get out of gold, there could be a period of a couple of years which is highly favourable - it's not a matter of a couple of months unless you're trying to be really greedy.

 

It's interesting that the very widest swings are the most modern, since the US$ ceased to be gold-backed domestically in the USA (1933).

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Moves in the dollar today quite baffling. I can only assume that many haven't made the link between increased money supply and inflation, as the rise in the dollar and subdued nature of gold seem so contradictory with the fed, ecb and boe liquidity injections announced this morning.

 

Dollar and equities rebound will be short lived in my opinion.

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Brendan McLoughlin doesn't have very much to do with the day-to-day running of HPC. I used to post there under a different name and was barred because someone suggested, during a rather heated debate, that I was a troll. I'd made the best part of 900 posts over a year but the mods refused to reinstate me. I complained to Mr McLoughlin who, to his credit, asked the moderator to reinstate my posting privileges. They didn't and despite further exchange of emails, he simply threw in the towel and concurred that the moderators were, indeed, "a law unto themselves".

 

And look what happens, hpc.co.uk's Alexa ranking has fallen to 52,356 from around 30,000 since the gold thread's removal. That's nearly 20k places off the 3 month moving average!

 

With mods like that who needs trolls?

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From axstone's thread at goldismoney forum.

just about sums it all up. :blink:

Not be long for loads of rocket pictures.

 

 

The view from another Bill:

 

To all; I woke up this morning and saw the $ a little firmer, Gold and Silver softer, and stock futures about unchanged. With the news of this past weekend, I wonder, how is any of this possible? The Dollar should be in freefall, along with equities, and the metals should be "up limit". The Fed puts an emergency $200 Billion into the banking system, JP Morgan says the banks are facing a "systemic margin call", Ambac raised a whopping $1.5 Billion, 70% of ARM munis failed last week, and Fannie and Freddie have had their credit quality questioned, resulting in Billions being dumped on the market. This is not the recipe for disaster, IT IS DISASTER! On what planet do we live? Planet Orwell? It is OVER. I don't know when the masses will realize this fact, but they will. Very shortly! What we have directly ahead is what I call a "garden hose" market. We will see $trillions trying to get out of all things paper, ie $s, bonds, stocks, you name it. This same money will then seek to enter the safe haven of the precious metals markets. The problem will be the "garden hose" syndrome. What is this syndrome you ask? It is the belief that with the push of a button, you can get out, or in. Trying to put Niagara falls through a "garden hose" just won't work! Mathematically impossible. In today's markets the doors out of paper and into the metals are small, and getting smaller everyday. Listening to CNBC, Bloomberg, etc., I can only shake my head. I'm hearing " buy the housing and finance stocks, they led us in, they'll lead us out". Or how about this one. An analyst this morning who touted the "goldilocks" or "soft landing" scenario until a week ago said, "this recession will be mild and over by June". Wouldn't it have been nice if he had given us a little notice ahead of time, warning of a recession? THIS IS SYSTEMIC! Don't listen to me, don't listen to Bill Murphy, listen to JP Morgan! They know. They created, along with other rocket scientists, this game. They have told us the banks face a systemic "margin call". Why shouldn't we believe them? Wall Street firms have the reputation of putting lipstick on pigs, painting pretty pictures, etc.. How bad must the banking system really be if they tell us of a systemic margin call? Are they being square with us, or is the systemic margin call a rosy scenario?

The point is, we are on the cusp of "shock and awe". The average person who listens to financial news and does not dig for the truth will truly be shocked and awed. I issued a Crash Alert to my clientele this past Saturday. I see no other avenue at this point. I pray I'm wrong. Regards, Bill H.

 

from

www.lemetropolecafe.com

Mar 10, 2008

__________________

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Quantum's Jim Rogers says US 'out of control'

From Times Online

February 28, 2008

Leo Lewis, Asia Business Correspondent

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle3451136.ece

 

Jim Rogers - who co-founded the now closed Quantum Fund with George Soros - told 750 global fund managers in Tokyo today that, America is “completely out of control”, there will be a 20-year bull market in commodities and that prices will be in turmoil.

 

And he also warned that it “made sense” if global competition for resources ended in armed conflict.

 

Mr Rogers told delegates to the CLSA investment forum that the prices of all agricultural products would “explode” in coming years and that the price of gold, which hit an all-time high of $964 an ounce yesterday, will continue its surge to as much as
$3,500 an ounce
.

 

Gold would continue to rise, the analyst Christopher Wood told fund managers, “because it is the exact opposite of a structured finance product”.

 

In a blistering attack on US monetary policy and the “helicopter cash drop” responses of the Federal Reserve, Mr Rogers described the American dollar as a “terribly flawed currency”.

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And look what happens, hpc.co.uk's Alexa ranking has fallen to 52,356 from around 30,000 since the gold thread's removal. That's nearly 20k places off the 3 month moving average!

 

With mods like that who needs trolls?

No wonder they have reopened it, wonder if they'll be moving it back to the main page or whether a new one will be "tolerated":

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70455

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Central banks plan emergency cash

Last Updated: Tuesday, 11 March 2008, 15:38 GMT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7289815.stm

 

Central banks have announced another round of co-ordinated auctions to provide more cash to financial markets.

 

Shares have risen on the news from the US Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank (ECB), and central banks of the UK, Canada and Switzerland.

 

They follow on from similar emergency auctions in December and January.

 

The aim is to cut the cost of lending between banks, which has been inflated by the credit crunch. New York's Dow Jones average rose 1.8% on the news.

 

The central banks are concerned that credit is still freezing up because banks don't want to lend to each other.

 

This could affect consumer spending, company investment and the housing market.

 

In the UK, mortgage lenders announced a sharp slowdown in the number of home loans approved due to difficulties in raising funds on commercial markets.

 

The authorities are worried that the credit crunch shows few signs of easing, eight months after the crisis began

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No wonder they have reopened it, wonder if they'll be moving it back to the main page or whether a new one will be "tolerated":

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70455

 

They want to stop posters talking about Gold but they can't. Houses are crashing, and sterling will not be far behind. HPC is housing bearish and sterling bullish. Being bearish on both is beyond the comprehension of the mods, and therefore unacceptable.

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No wonder they have reopened it, wonder if they'll be moving it back to the main page or whether a new one will be "tolerated":

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70455

 

Even if they did, does anyone here care any more?

 

The Doc's hospitality as been exemplary and as a bonus, he even contributes in a knowledgeable manner, so why go back to a place where we're not especially welcome and are continuously flamed by the mods in various guises?

 

Furthermore, why go back to a site that has changed beyond all recognition and has very little to say for itself apart from the usual "I hate the world 'cos I can't be bothered to better myself, so I shall just blame everyone else for my woes."

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Moves in the dollar today quite baffling. I can only assume that many haven't made the link between increased money supply and inflation, as the rise in the dollar and subdued nature of gold seem so contradictory with the fed, ecb and boe liquidity injections announced this morning.

 

Dollar and equities rebound will be short lived in my opinion.

 

Merryn Somerset Webbs recent editorial in Money Week revealed an interesting stat last week. The FTSE 100 last week was trading at the same level as in 1998...

 

Compare this then over the water. On 11 March 1998 the DOW JIA closed at 8706.... :blink:

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Even if they did, does anyone here care any more?

 

The Doc's hospitality as been exemplary and as a bonus, he even contributes in a knowledgeable manner, so why go back to a place where we're not especially welcome and are continuously flamed by the mods in various guises?

 

Furthermore, why go back to a site that has changed beyond all recognition and has very little to say for itself apart from the usual "I hate the world 'cos I can't be bothered to better myself, so I shall just blame everyone else for my woes."

 

Agreed, this is a much better site. Just thought a lot of HPC refugees would find their apparent U-turn amusing.

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Even if they did, does anyone here care any more?

 

The Doc's hospitality as been exemplary and as a bonus, he even contributes in a knowledgeable manner, so why go back to a place where we're not especially welcome and are continuously flamed by the mods in various guises?

 

Furthermore, why go back to a site that has changed beyond all recognition and has very little to say for itself apart from the usual "I hate the world 'cos I can't be bothered to better myself, so I shall just blame everyone else for my woes."

 

I agree completely, it is much better here, no trolls and no unusual moderator decisions.

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I have a couple of questions for you all. These being the things I constantly think about :blink: : -

 

1) Do you consider gold as real money ?

 

2) Do you think the financial system is on the verge of collapse and if so what do you think that means ?

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Anyway, I will be quite busy the next few days, not much time to watch the price of gold.

"A watched pot never boils"......$1000 here we come then :blink:

 

 

I'm posting this from BBC Midland News about the public selling off jewellery. It highlights the trade in one jeweller in Dudley, an ordinary Midland town. Some interesting quotes and figures..

 

“Jeweller David Johnson has paid out £250,000 for gold in the last three weeks”

“We have had queues for the last three weeks literally coming out of the door in the Dudley shop. We have bought a lot of gold”

“I’ve sold some jewellery that was just lying in the drawer at home….. towards a holiday in Spain”

 

Source: BBC Midlands "Gold rush as prices double"

< http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/p...wm=1&nbwm=1 >

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I have a couple of questions for you all. These being the things I constantly think about :blink: : -

 

1) Do you consider gold as real money ?

 

2) Do you think the financial system is on the verge of collapse and if so what do you think that means ?

 

1) Yes, Gold is real money. That is why the central banks have it their vaults and not anything else.

2) Yes, the capitalist fiat monetary system is on the verge of collapse. Ultimately WW III with be the outcome, just like WWII was the outcome of Wiemar Republic.

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Agreed, this is a much better site. Just thought a lot of HPC refugees would find their apparent U-turn amusing.

 

Indeed, and I for one will be ROTFLMAO if they ever decide to reinstate the gold thread back to the main forum, as I was the one who originally said that they hadn't the balls...

 

PS. Anyone see Andy Jones' new gold thread (which has now been moved also) entitled 'I Want To Buy Gold'?

 

I've been in Town today and had lunch with an old University friend who is now a currency trader. I now want to buy Gold. Sterling is going to be toast against the Dollar by the end of 2008 and I know someone willing to make a three hundred million pound bet on that being the case..

 

There are various ways to buy gold. I have 150k in Sterling that I would like to move into gold in the safest and easiest way possible. Would some of you gold bugs please give me some succinct advice on what the options and merits are please?

 

Many thanks,

 

ANDY

 

 

ps I STR'd a year ago and todays economic news is right at the upper end of my expectation curve. I do actually believe now that we will see 30% nominal value drops in the next 2 years and although I've long expounded the view I always had secret doubts that we might see small nominal falls and prolonged stagnation. No more. The economy is screwed and what is happening in the USA is going to happen here later this year. Big time.

 

CONTINUE >>>

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"A watched pot never boils"......$1000 here we come then :blink:

 

 

I'm posting this from BBC Midland News about the public selling off jewellery. It highlights the trade in one jeweller in Dudley, an ordinary Midland town. Some interesting quotes and figures..

 

“Jeweller David Johnson has paid out £250,000 for gold in the last three weeks”

“We have had queues for the last three weeks literally coming out of the door in the Dudley shop. We have bought a lot of gold”

“I’ve sold some jewellery that was just lying in the drawer at home….. towards a holiday in Spain”

 

Source: BBC Midlands "Gold rush as prices double"

< http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/p...wm=1&nbwm=1 >

 

The masses are being herded out of their only possessions of any value - and the BBC are showing the way.

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This is a better article by bloomberg about the $200 billion cash injection by the Fed

 

Fed to Lend $200 Billion, Take on Mortgage Securities

By Scott Lanman

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

March 11 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve, struggling to contain a crisis of confidence in credit markets, will for the first time
lend Treasuries in exchange for debt that includes mortgage-backed securities.

The Fed said in a statement in Washington it plans to make up to $200 billion available through weekly auctions, and officials told reporters the program may be increased as needed. The Fed coordinated the effort with central banks in Europe and Canada, which plan to inject up to $45 billion into their banking systems.

 

U.S. stocks rallied the most in six weeks on optimism the initiative will help avert a wider credit crunch.Treasuries fell, while the premiums investors demand for debt backed by home loans guaranteed by Fannie Mae remained near a 22-year high.

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This is a better article by bloomberg about the $200 billion cash injection by the Fed

 

Fed to Lend $200 Billion, Take on Mortgage Securities

By Scott Lanman

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

March 11 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve, struggling to contain a crisis of confidence in credit markets, will for the first time
lend Treasuries in exchange for debt that includes mortgage-backed securities.

The Fed said in a statement in Washington it plans to make up to $200 billion available through weekly auctions, and officials told reporters the program may be increased as needed. The Fed coordinated the effort with central banks in Europe and Canada, which plan to inject up to $45 billion into their banking systems.

 

U.S. stocks rallied the most in six weeks on optimism the initiative will help avert a wider credit crunch.Treasuries fell, while the premiums investors demand for debt backed by home loans guaranteed by Fannie Mae remained near a 22-year high.

 

200 Billion. First we were talking in millions, then billions, then tens of billions, now hundreds of billions. How long before we are talking in trillions. The Fed Reserve are hyperinflating away the US dollar, woe to those who misunderstand what is really going on.

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1) Yes, Gold is real money. That is why the central banks have it their vaults and not anything else.

2) Yes, the capitalist fiat monetary system is on the verge of collapse. Ultimately WW III with be the outcome, just like WWII was the outcome of Wiemar Republic.

Thank you. I agree with both of those responses. I just don't want to believe the second :(

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Merryn Somerset Webbs recent editorial in Money Week revealed an interesting stat last week. The FTSE 100 last week was trading at the same level as in 1998...

 

Compare this then over the water. On 11 March 1998 the DOW JIA closed at 8706.... :(

This is probably mainly due to dollar inflation. I don't know the exchange rate then but a pound bought fewer dollars. Priced in euros the DOW doesn't look pretty. Not to mention the price in ounces of gold.

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200 Billion. First we were talking in millions, then billions, then tens of billions, now hundreds of billions. How long before we are talking in trillions. The Fed Reserve are hyperinflating away the US dollar, woe to those who misunderstand what is really going on.

 

 

I dont understand why Gold didn't go through the roof at this announcement.

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