GOLD

[alexreeve]

OK here's the deal -

 

Do I re-mortgage a house that is fully paid up and with the sterling buy gold / silver?

 

I know the risks, but the possible upside in precious metals next year (esp. silver) makes me think it is a risk worth taking.

 

opinions please

I have done exactly that with a flat I own. The flat is let out at the moment, and maybe I should have just sold it, but it's big, quiet and really handy for the station. Flat was valued at £200,000 last year, I took £100,000 mortgage and put it into Goldmoney, Dec 07. Mortgage is an offset tracker, 0.8% above base rate, no early redemption penalties.

 

The PMs not really made much profit yet after taking the mortgage interest into consideration, but I am confident enough to run it on for another year or two.

[HPCsoYESTERDAY]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I guess I will await the new year and see what q1 brings (i have been pondering this for a while).

 

If the BoE lower rates again and there is a sell-off in gold (like last march end) then I will be tempted!!!

[marmite]

Wow, what a smack down

[bitbigt]

That question was asked of Jim Puplava in his Q-calls on last weeks show.

 

He gave the answer that he thought it was best to keep your house owned 100%.

I fully agree!!!!!

 

Gold is a way to help preserve the value of ones cash!

 

It should not be used as a speculative investment vehicle, especially on leverage (which is what you'd be doing if remortaging, putting it all in gold, and only paying out the mortgage interest).

 

You could get wiped out, whereas you're currently in a very safe and admirable position.

 

Dont be greedy!!!

[HPCsoYESTERDAY]

I fully agree!!!!!

 

Gold is a way to help preserve the value of ones cash!

 

It should not be used as a speculative investment vehicle, especially on leverage (which is what you'd be doing if remortaging, putting it all in gold, and only paying out the mortgage interest).

 

You could get wiped out, whereas you're currently in a very safe and admirable position.

 

Dont be greedy!!!

 

but, when I listen to the amounts that some people are buying on here, I feel like I'm missing out!

[romans holiday]

but, when I listen to the amounts that some people are buying on here, I feel like I'm missing out!

I do not see a problem with it... just do not get too greedy [10% or so].

 

If, as most here expect, [hyper] inflation/ currency devaluation hits, at some later date, it would be very advantageous to have a small mortgage on your house. then you could sell half your gold and clear the mortgage. The crucial part is to not over-extend and keep it within a comfortable amount, with next to no risk.

 

 

 

the muppets on CNBC keep talking about gold... and currency devaluation... which has to be a good sign.

[bitbigt]

Wow, what a smack down

...yes, due to USD strengthenning in last hour or so.

 

Currencies are on ends of a see-saw, which itself has fallen off a cliff

[bitbigt]

but, when I listen to the amounts that some people are buying on here, I feel like I'm missing out!

I understand, ...and can only say the following:

 

- its your life, and so your decisions

 

- but as 'Romans Holiday' said, might be smart to keep it under control (e.g., 10%) and don't go all in

 

- in my case I'm after a secure (fully paid up) home, and happy family: I'm not chasing great wealth. So since I moved back to UK only recently and house prices are falling, I'm renting and keeping a big chunk of my 'house-cash' in gold, silver, and oil. I am hoping house prices will fall further, and gold will go up more, so I can then get myself into the enviable position you are in!!! If I were in that position today, the last thing I'd be doing is risking my security to place a 'bet' on golds future ...at least not morethan 10% and then only if I felt my job was secure so I could pay back the loan in any case.

 

- what I would do in your position is save and invest, not borrow to invest ...there's always something going up in price, so there will always be some things for you to invest in (other than cash, via a bank account) - and some of that is tax free!

 

 

 

 

[allyjcambo]

Peter Schiff highlighting some obvious parallels between the Madoff scheme and the US economy....

 

 

As the multi-billion dollar Ponzi scheme orchestrated by Wall Street insider Bernard Madoff unravels in the media spotlight, the nation is being presented with a rare opportunity to understand the true nature of many of our most cherished financial structures. Hopefully we have the wisdom to connect the dots.

 

Although the $50 billion loss engineered by Madoff is truly a staggering accomplishment (and was done using old-fashioned fraud rather than the mathematical wizardry that has characterized Wall Street’s recent larcenies) the size of the scheme pales in comparison to the multi-trillion dollar Ponzi structures run by the United States government. In fact, rather than looking to jail Madoff, President-elect Obama should consider making him our new Treasury secretary. If not that, at least make him the czar of something!

 

Madoff’s inspiration came from Charles Ponzi, the Italian-born American immigrant who promoted an investment plan in the early 1900s’ that traded postal coupons. Rather than paying investors from legitimate investment returns, Ponzi hit upon the innovative idea of paying out early investors with money collected from new investors. By creating an illusion of success, interest in his investment plan ballooned. Over time the schemes have become known by many other names, such as chain letters or pyramid schemes. They are united by the fact that they always fail in the end.

 

When the influx of new investors inevitably slows to the point where distributions to current investors can no longer be maintained, investors look to withdraw funds. When this happens, the entire structure falls apart. The profits received by those who “invested” early as well so any funds skimmed off by the promoter, are offset by all the losses of those who came late to the party.

 

To a large extent, the same concept has driven the major asset bubbles of the last decade. Given the ridiculously high valuations that were assigned to tech stocks and real estate during their respective booms, the only way the bubbles could be perpetuated was if newer “investors” could be found to pay even more outrageous prices (the greater fool). But when these new buyers balked, the whole structure crumbled. Although there was no Ponzi or Madoff to orchestrate these manias, the entire financial and economic apparatus of the country had successfully convinced the public that “investments” in tech stocks and condominiums were bullet proof and that the supply of new buyers was endless.

 

Unfortunately, the Ponzi economy doesn’t stop there. A chain letter is no more viable when run by governments than when run by private citizens. However, government orchestrated pyramids have the advantage of required participation. As a result, they can maintain the illusion of viability for several generations. But the longer such schemes operate the larger will be the losses when they ultimately collapse.

 

The Social Security Administration runs its “trust funds” with precisely the same methods used by Madoff and Ponzi. As money is collected by from current workers, the funds are then dispersed to those already receiving benefits. None of the funds collected are actually invested, so no investment returns are ever generated. Those currently paying into the system are expected to receive their returns based on the “contribution” made by future workers. This is the classic definition of a Ponzi scheme. The only difference is that Ponzi didn’t own a printing press.

 

The United States Government runs its own balance sheet based on the Ponzi principal as well. Our national debt always grows and never shrinks. As existing debt matures, proceeds are repaid by issuing new debt. Interest payments on existing debt are also made by selling new debt to investors. The whole scheme depends on an ever growing supply of new lenders, or the willingness of existing lenders, to continue to roll over maturing notes. Of course, as was the case with Madoff, if enough of our creditors want their money back, the music stops playing.

 

In Madoff’s case, the rug pulling was provided by the huge financial losses suffered by some of his clients in other non-Madoff investments. When enough of these clients looked to sell some of their apparently well-performing Madoff assets to help offset such losses, the scam collapsed. The same thing could befall the United States Government. Now that China and our other creditors are looking to spend some of their U.S. Treasury holdings to stimulate their own economies, look for a similar outcome with even more dire implications.

 

The main difference is that while Madoff took elaborate steps to conceal his scheme, the U.S. government operates in broad daylight. It truly is amazing how faith in government is so pervasive that many can believe that politicians will succeed where private individuals fail, and that governments are somehow immune to the economic laws that govern the rest of society. Like those unfortunate to have been duped by Madoff and Ponzi, the world is in for a rude awakening.

 

[G0ldfinger]

Very nice: the Cartel is striking back now.

 

Keep in mind: Dan Norcini said the markets would trade quite thinly around this time of the year. So, anyone who wants to smack the metals will do it now.

 

Time to buy some, IMO.

[G0ldfinger]

This will propel gold to the moon:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment...g-your-way.html

And life will start getting rather peculiar. It is not inconceivable that banks could start charging customers to hold their money – after all, their business model is predicated on positive interest rates.

Because why would anyone put money in a turd like, say, HBoS, only to have some credit risk and even have to pay for it? Much better to put money into gold then, with services like BV or GM.

[nicejim]

Did someone here predict gold would be kept below EUR600? Looking good at the moment.

[grumpy-old-man]

This will propel gold to the moon:

 

it's not done to badly over the last 50 years mind has it GF:

 

"Okay, let's go back 50 years. Below is a what would have happened if your bought an ounce of gold in 1958:

 

First bit is price of an ounce of gold in $;

Second is price of an ounce of gold in £;

Third is value of the equivalent dollar cash value of the ounce of gold held in cash and adjusted with respect to the US CPI;

Fourth is the equivalent sterling cash value of the ounce of gold held in cash and adjusted with respect to the British RPI:

 

 

Gold($)

1958: $35.10

2000: $273.60

2008: $876

 

Gold(£)

1958: 12.49

2000: 180

2008: 584

 

Cash($)

1958: 35.10

2000: 209

2008: 251.65

 

Cash(£)

1958: 12.49

2000: 137.5

2008: 167.77

 

It's clear what monetary store of value has performed the best over the last 50 years. "

 

taken from the poster pistis original link

is this anyone from here ?

[Pixel8r]

Madoff’s inspiration came from Charles Ponzi, the Italian-born American immigrant who promoted an investment plan in the early 1900s’ that traded postal coupons. Rather than paying investors from legitimate investment returns, Ponzi hit upon the innovative idea of paying out early investors with money collected from new investors. By creating an illusion of success, interest in his investment plan ballooned. Over time the schemes have become known by many other names, such as chain letters or pyramid schemes. They are united by the fact that they always fail in the end.

 

When the influx of new investors inevitably slows to the point where distributions to current investors can no longer be maintained, investors look to withdraw funds. When this happens, the entire structure falls apart. The profits received by those who “invested” early as well so any funds skimmed off by the promoter, are offset by all the losses of those who came late to the party.

 

You could describe what has just happened in the UK housing market as a giant Ponzi scheme, amazing similarities.

 

 

 

[id5]

They'll be protected with a foam coin between them, but all the cases/wallets are becoming a pain. I'll keep looking thanks anyway.

 

For gold coins and short term storage of silver coins buy yourself zip lock plastic baggies from eBay, the thicker the better. For medium term storage of silver use thick paper envelopes, the small wage slip type is ideal. For long term storage you have to use airtight containers as the salts and oils in the air will in the end send them black.

[Pixel8r]

Gold US $ 856.30 - 1.30%

 

Gold UK £ 572.40 + 2.49%

 

Silver US $ 11.06 - 2.71%

 

Silver UK £7.39 +1.08%

 

What a strange day, good for any UK holders.

[HPCSucks]

Gold US $ 856.30 - 1.30%

 

Gold UK £ 572.40 + 2.49%

 

Silver US $ 11.06 - 2.71%

 

Silver UK £7.39 +1.08%

 

What a strange day, good for any UK holders.

You can't complain at 37% for the year can you.

[njpurser]

I wish I had bought more yesterday... Only managed 20 oz... I am on a buying spree!

Decided on a plan then-good man.

 

Thought I'd screwed up buying 5 grands worth when BS blew up:$940.

 

However, have made 20% in GBP terms in 9 months. The one year chart on BV also shows a very sharp uptrend as turdling (spec' GF) tanks.

 

It is on.

 

Nick

[nicejim]

Decided on a plan then-good man.

 

Thought I'd screwed up buying 5 grands worth when BS blew up:$940.

 

However, have made 20% in GBP terms in 9 months. The one year chart on BV also shows a very sharp uptrend as turdling (spec' GF) tanks.

 

It is on.

 

Nick

There's nearly always a better performing investment you could have made. Cocoa for instance, or ultrashort oil! But for quality of sleep there's nothing to match gold this year, which is what it's all about for me.

[Wanderer]

Time to take some profits in Sterling gold?

[Pixel8r]

Time to take some profits in Sterling gold?

 

The biggest error an investor might make in the burgeoning third phase of the gold bull market is thinking the boat has been missed after new price territory is reached. Limiting your gains by trading in and out of the physical is insanity. Physical gold should only be considered if you plan to hold on to it for years, not months. Transportation, storage and security issues will chew up short term gains.

 

From: Risky Opportunity Awaits in Junior Gold Sector

 

Or are we talking paper gold here?

[G0ldfinger]

WHY do people try and trade THIS:

 

http://gold.approximity.com/since2006/Gold_GBP.html

Makes no sense at all IMHO.

[marceau]

WHY do people try and trade THIS:

 

http://gold.approximity.com/since2006/Gold_GBP.html

Makes no sense at all IMHO.

 

Totally agree. Coincidentally, I just posted this in the mining section about SLW:

 

For what it's worth though, I think frequent trading in this market is a recipe for disaster, it's time to hoard and hold. One wrong step in trading could see you lose 10% in a single day at the moment - and that's without leverage. A bit too much risk for my appetite, given the current circumstances.

 

Why risk it? As old JS says - Do you really want to be the guy who went broke trading gold, during the greatest gold bull market in history?

[Ret45]

 

Also trying to decide whether to buy more gold at the moment. Bought some on BV back in September during the dip. I am euroland so pog has remained fairly static for the last month or so. I had planned to buy when the price dipped again but no sign of that happening. I intend to hold my gold. Have some cash in the bank but not sure whether to keep it there in case i want to take a chunk off the mortgage - mortgage is at about 2 times gross salary and its on an ECB tracker of about 3.2%. Job is very secure.

 

Any advice? - I suppose the obvious answer is to buy a certain amount every month, but I think I would get caught up in trying to time my purchase every month. Re the 10% guide - is that 10% of gross assets, including your house, or 10% of liquid assets?

 

 

[warpig]

I came across coin capsules last night, so for my gold coins this in a tube looks like the solution I was after. Thanks anyway.

 

For gold coins and short term storage of silver coins buy yourself zip lock plastic baggies from eBay, the thicker the better. For medium term storage of silver use thick paper envelopes, the small wage slip type is ideal. For long term storage you have to use airtight containers as the salts and oils in the air will in the end send them black.