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Also gold bugs miss that human specie is evolving into a new specie and in 100 years from now we probably will be able to create,destroy or convert the matter as we want to. Somebody said gold was a 5000 years bubble, i bet it is. A barbaric relic that you will see in a museum 200 from now. And if you think you aren't going to live by that time you could be very wrong. A trend in inmortality has already started and it is now your decision how long you will live, but some folks still want to deny the advances of thechnology, digging the ground is the only future they see.

 

lol - now i see why you think gold will fall to $320 - you're crazy.

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i always suspected that, but now i see i am not the only one:

 

"In Bernstein's view, people who advocated the gold standard were "deluded," "intoxicated," "obsessed," and "haunted." He contends that the gold standard was "primitive" and the result of "cupidity and stupidity." Not only does he believe that gold is not useful for anything save adornment, but that dire political and social consequences result from its use as money."

http://www.fame.org/HTM/Book%20Review%20Th...20Bernstein.htm

 

sure will be interesting to read. i also believe that who think we are going to be on gold standard some day are going to be very disappointed. what gold bugs miss to see is that the FOREX system is already a back bone for unified currency system, it just needs to evolve enough to be connected to all the banks and all credit/debit cards of all the citizens in the world. In 20 or 30 year from now, we could have it done and all the hopes for gold standard will be dead completely.

Also gold bugs miss that human specie is evolving into a new specie and in 100 years from now we probably will be able to create,destroy or convert the matter as we want to. Somebody said gold was a 5000 years bubble, i bet it is. A barbaric relic that you will see in a museum 200 from now. And if you think you aren't going to live by that time you could be very wrong. A trend in inmortality has already started and it is now your decision how long you will live, but some folks still want to deny the advances of thechnology, digging the ground is the only future they see.

 

Are we not all supposed to be using flying cars and working a few hours a month by now? That was what I was authoritatively told as a child in the 70's. Where is the trend in immortality starting? Can anyone do it? Is there a refund if it does not work?

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Also gold bugs miss that human specie is evolving into a new specie and in 100 years from now we probably will be able to create,destroy or convert the matter as we want to.

 

If we get to that stage nothing will be worth anything to anyone. If we can create or manipulate matter then everyone will have everything that they need on demand.

 

Money will cease to have a purpose.

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If we get to that stage nothing will be worth anything to anyone. If we can create or manipulate matter then everyone will have everything that they need on demand.

 

Money will cease to have a purpose.

Hang on a sec. Last I checked, evolutionary progress had been put on hold. :lol:

 

Progress is over-rated anyway.... it's all cyclical.

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i also believe that who think we are going to be on gold standard some day are going to be very disappointed. what gold bugs miss to see is that the FOREX system is already a back bone for unified currency system, it just needs to evolve enough to be connected to all the banks and all credit/debit cards of all the citizens in the world. In 20 or 30 year from now, we could have it done and all the hopes for gold standard will be dead completely.

What we really need is a system of freely traded currencies that all compete. Gold would certainly be one of them, if only for the ``gold bugs". As Hayek (Nobel 1976) pointed out already, how can it be that the very backbone (i.e. money) of our oh-so-fee markets shall not be free, but forced upon us by government?

 

Also gold bugs miss that human specie is evolving into a new specie and in 100 years from now we probably will be able to create,destroy or convert the matter as we want to. Somebody said gold was a 5000 years bubble, i bet it is. A barbaric relic that you will see in a museum 200 from now. And if you think you aren't going to live by that time you could be very wrong. A trend in inmortality has already started and it is now your decision how long you will live, but some folks still want to deny the advances of thechnology, digging the ground is the only future they see.

I am looking forward to this Trekkie future. We will need no money anymore when energy should become that abundant.

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If we get to that stage nothing will be worth anything to anyone. If we can create or manipulate matter then everyone will have everything that they need on demand.

 

Money will cease to have a purpose.

That's what I meant.

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lol - now i see why you think gold will fall to $320 - you're crazy.

It's more an RB kind of argument. Large colliders and such.

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"In Bernstein's view, people who advocated the gold standard were "deluded," "intoxicated," "obsessed," and "haunted." He contends that the gold standard was "primitive" and the result of "cupidity and stupidity." Not only does he believe that gold is not useful for anything save adornment, but that dire political and social consequences result from its use as money."

Aimless strings of perjorative adjectives? That's got to be a well balanced and insightful exploration of the complexities of money.

 

Why not read something that challenges your preconceptions rather than searching out works you feel will reinforce them? What value will you have gained by reading it, if you know the conclusions and already wholeheartedly agree?

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Friday 3pm smackdown in progress? Few minutes early....

Just visited the local for my monthly purchase and did something entirely unlike me. I bought a piece of jewellry. Yes Jewellry.

I mean this thing took my eye like no other. I can only describe it as a piece of art. It's an antique french brooch sculpted to a bird of paradise. 18ct, set with emeralds across it's back and emeralds and rubies in the tail. In fact, I think i'm going to add a photo so you can see what i mean.

 

It weighs nearly an ounce but it's good to remind yourself occasionally of the beautiful things man can make when he puts hs mind to it. Every time I look at it, it takes my breath away. God knows what the OH will think of it!

 

SV100627-small.jpg

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what gold bugs miss to see is that the FOREX system is already a back bone for unified currency system, it just needs to evolve enough to be connected to all the banks and all credit/debit cards of all the citizens in the world.

 

what you have missed is that the FOREX system is completely detached from actualities; therefore is devoid of price-signals; therefore it will continue to misallocate capital until the system completely implodes.

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As spotted on JSMineset.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=a2eu6WpDGEEc

Gold a ‘Good Choice’ for Boosting Global Use of Yuan (Update2)

...

May 28 (Bloomberg) -- China’s trade in yuan-denominated gold investment products moves the currency closer toward global acceptance and the country should develop more of them, a central bank official said.

Pricing commodities in the currency “helps China’s goal to internationalize the yuan,” Wang Zhenying, deputy director- general of the Department of Financial Management at the Shanghai office of the People’s Bank of China, said today. “Gold is a good choice to have yuan trading.”

 

Gold consumption in China, the world’s biggest producer, may double within the next 10 years as supplies fail to keep pace with demand from investors and the jewelry industry, the World Gold Council said in March.

...

“Although the gold market only accounts for about 1/400- 1/500 of China’s financial markets, the meaning of it is going to be significant,” Wang said. “A currency’s international status depends on its being accepted in trade and settlement and having certain financial products priced in that currency.”

...

Full internationalization of the yuan will take 15 to 20 years, Dai Xianglong, chairman of China’s National Council for Social Security Fund, said last month. This doesn’t mean the currency will displace the dollar, which will remain dominant in the global currency system, he said.

 

“We have more than 30 trillion yuan worth of savings in deposits and the lack of investment products have contributed to Chinese investors going into mungbeans and garlic lately,” the central bank’s Wang said. “We can develop more gold products to attract investor demand.”

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Friday 3pm smackdown in progress? Few minutes early....

A 'failed smackdown' pattern, although the peak-to-trough is smaller than previous intraday 'failed smackdown' patterns at around $10. Sounds quite positive for next week, but 3 days is a long time at the moment given all the bearish news around.

 

Next market trading day is officially June of course - so was are now in doldrums season. The times to lighten up gold exposure for seasonality followers are as far as I know March (conservative) or May (more bold).

 

I must admit to not buying the past few months at these prices, and to sitting on a growing pile of savings cash. Prior to the general election, I moved this cash into USD and CHF , expecting a hung result and a (short-term at least) fall in sterling, but will be looking for a gold price dip in these currencies over the summer to average in with more physical for my core position.

 

Experience had taught me never to buy into strength, and while I appreciate the 'buy same time every month - its a 20 year bull run' argument, this never works for me as I tend to naturally buy at interim tops unless I act disciplined and buy into weakness. A disciplined series of buys before early September seems my likely next move.

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A rather nice article appearing in The Times about the demand for British gold sovereigns in Greece.

 

May 25, 2010

 

Greeks give new meaning to idea of sovereign wealth

 

They were parachuted in during the Second World War to fund local resistance to the Germans and now, with a population mired deep in another — if very different — crisis, British gold sovereigns once again are the foreign currency of choice in Greece.

 

Once again, too, they are offering a tangible sense of security amid turbulent uncertainty. In the 1940s, as the only reliable currency available, much of it was hoarded in trunks, under floorboards and buried in gardens. Any respectable girl’s dowry included a cache of sovereigns.

 

Now they are being used as a physical hedge against fears that Greece may leave the eurozone. For weeks buyers have been queuing patiently in the central bank’s main downtown Athens office, prepared to shell out nearly €273 per piece, up from €243 at the start of May and €180 last July. Persistent worries that Greece could default at least partly on its debts are emptying the Bank of Greece’s vaults of at least 700 gold coins a day, giving a whole new meaning to the term sovereign debt.

 

“The public’s renewed interest in sovereigns as an asset started with the collapse of Lehman Brothers,” the daily Kathimerini wrote. Central bank officials estimate that while Greek demand for the distinctive bullion has been rising by 10 per cent a year since 2008, its price has been soaring by more than 50 per cent.

 

The full article: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/busi...icle7135543.ece

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Hang on a sec. Last I checked, evolutionary progress had been put on hold. :lol:

 

Progress is over-rated anyway.... it's all cyclical.

 

Augustine was wrong God does move in circles , nothing is linear, nothing, you just need to know history to be able to see it.

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A 'failed smackdown' pattern, although the peak-to-trough is smaller than previous intraday 'failed smackdown' patterns at around $10. Sounds quite positive for next week, but 3 days is a long time at the moment given all the bearish news around.

 

Next market trading day is officially June of course - so was are now in doldrums season. The times to lighten up gold exposure for seasonality followers are as far as I know March (conservative) or May (more bold).

 

I must admit to not buying the past few months at these prices, and to sitting on a growing pile of savings cash. Prior to the general election, I moved this cash into USD and CHF , expecting a hung result and a (short-term at least) fall in sterling, but will be looking for a gold price dip in these currencies over the summer to average in with more physical for my core position.

 

Experience had taught me never to buy into strength, and while I appreciate the 'buy same time every month - its a 20 year bull run' argument, this never works for me as I tend to naturally buy at interim tops unless I act disciplined and buy into weakness. A disciplined series of buys before early September seems my likely next move.

Good call on the election and you are probably right on timing of gold purchase...but I am more concerned about gold being there when you want to buy-if it is physical you are talking about. Already we have seen some big dealers depleted of supplies and a rush to gold bythe Europeans and I read yesterday the Americans too. Will the gold be there when you want it? I am not advocating buying every top, just pick up on the dips.

 

My favored dealer in Japan does have gold now but silver is another story. I have been told that supplies of US junk silver coins have been depleted, and the bullion coins are all out. Closest I could get was a 30kg block! As I had the push chair, I declined and filled up on fractional gold instead. :lol:

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Augustine was wrong God does move in circles , nothing is linear, nothing, you just need to know history to be able to see it.

"What, then, is time?" Augustine asks. "If no one asks of me, I know; if I wish to explain to him who asks, I know not."

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Just visited the local for my monthly purchase and did something entirely unlike me. I bought a piece of jewellry. Yes Jewellry.

I mean this thing took my eye like no other. I can only describe it as a piece of art. It's an antique french brooch sculpted to a bird of paradise. 18ct, set with emeralds across it's back and emeralds and rubies in the tail. In fact, I think i'm going to add a photo so you can see what i mean.

 

It weighs nearly an ounce but it's good to remind yourself occasionally of the beautiful things man can make when he puts hs mind to it. Every time I look at it, it takes my breath away. God knows what the OH will think of it!

 

Wow beautiful :D

 

=================

 

Has anyone heard of FOFOA (as in ANOTHER and FOA) ?

 

Anyone interested in some deep thinking about prospects, you may find this unexpected discussion of interest:

 

http://www.neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2921

 

It's caused me a certain amount of thinking.

 

FOFOA mentions Goldfinger in passing ;)

 

 

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Wow beautiful :D

 

=================

 

Has anyone heard of FOFOA (as in ANOTHER and FOA) ?

 

Anyone interested in some deep thinking about prospects, you may find this unexpected discussion of interest:

 

http://www.neuralnetwriter.cylo42.com/node/2921

 

It's caused me a certain amount of thinking.

 

FOFOA mentions Goldfinger in passing ;)

From that link:

 

So, the way I have started looking at this, from a macro perspective, is; What will market forces do to fix the problem? And the answer is that the market will recapitalize itself through the gold base, just as it has done for thousands of years. This is a free market force I am talking about. It will not be resisted by those in power when it happens because they have bigger problems to worry about than trying to restrain the value of their only true reserves below market value

 

There is a tendency to reify the "free market" today, where the idea of the market is turned into some ontic reality, which exists over and above, or outside of, society. The reality is actual free markets exist only within the context of society, government, institutions and law. Given this, "market forces" can not really fix the problem, all they can do [insofar as they are the sum of investor behaviour] is exacerbate the problem [and perhaps for good reasons]. As the financial market becomes more unstable, money will increasingly run into gold. From an economic/ social perspective this is disastrous with gold representing a gigantic sun in which existing monetary values start to lose their orbit being caught in a strengthening and ultimately destructive gravitational pull.

 

The solution will then have to be governmental. In order to halt the economic collapse, government will be forced to restore some kind of gold standard, that is, recapitalize and stabilize the currencies. From a "free market" perspective this would be a fixing of the gold price. From another perspective, this will just mean the re-institutionalization of gold [and the death knell of market fundamentalism] as our monetary bedrock..... with our currencies being fixed/ priced to it... not gold to our currency. This is the end game imo and will solve trade/ currency imbalances/ instabilities at the same time by fixng currencies at the appropriate levels to gold. This will also allow money/ trade to find an equilibrium between nations as it finds its natural level due to gold serving as a kind of natural "ballast" to trade. Hume's theory is good here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_specie_flow_mechanism

 

For those that have a bias against government for whatever reason, consider that a gold standard is a natural restraint on what governments can and can not do. They will only restore a gold standard very reluctantly and to avoid complete economic collapse. Probably the fix will come by a capping of the price when a "tipping point" threatens, with money increasingly being caught in gold's pull.. draining the life-blood out of the economy. I imagine the price could be somewhere betwen US $2000/ 3000. Currencies would be fixed to gold, and a lot of debt default would occur though economic activity could get going again on a sounder footing. Creditor nations would take a haircut on their reserves, but like any creditor will be relieved to see the bulk of those reserves guaranteed by the new international system.

 

If a few thousand dollars an ounce doesn't seem a lot compared to the other guesstimates around, consider that asset prices will most likely continue to slowly decline. Gold stabilized currencies will continue to become more valuable against assets, with the new era characterized by deflation expectation and the saving of money as the last was by inflation expectation and spending. Even though the numbers might be fixed, the relative value [behind the numbers] of gold/ currency to assets will continue to increase. With the classic functions of money restored, where savings should counter-balance spending, the economy would then again grow... and if more slowly at least on a more sustainable basis.

 

edit

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Good call on the election and you are probably right on timing of gold purchase...but I am more concerned about gold being there when you want to buy-if it is physical you are talking about. Already we have seen some big dealers depleted of supplies and a rush to gold bythe Europeans and I read yesterday the Americans too. Will the gold be there when you want it? I am not advocating buying every top, just pick up on the dips.

 

My favored dealer in Japan does have gold now but silver is another story. I have been told that supplies of US junk silver coins have been depleted, and the bullion coins are all out. Closest I could get was a 30kg block! As I had the push chair, I declined and filled up on fractional gold instead. :lol:

 

 

Jake,

 

I was in Japan for years and will be back there one day. What do most people do for gold and silver investment there? Are there BoJ gold and silver coins? Or bars etc? Do people buy online or at stores? Are there many people interestsed in gold there?

 

Also, was talking to a US friend today about gold. Where could he buy gold coins in the US? Anyone know any reputable dealers online in the US?

 

Wanderer

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There is a tendency to reify the "free market" today, where the idea of the market is turned into some ontic reality, which exists over and above, or outside of, society.

 

there is a tendency amongst statists to use elaborate wordings and vague collectivist terms, any old crap really, to attempt to mask the fact that all government intervention means forcing people to do stuff using violence.

 

The reality is actual free markets exist only within the context of society, government, institutions and law.

 

you cannot refuse governments' offers, therefore gov't intervention is not compatible with free market methodology (see sig).

 

Given this, "market forces" can not really fix the problem, all they can do [insofar as they are the sum of investor behaviour] is exacerbate the problem [and perhaps for good reasons].

 

market methodology was in the process of working through solutions, but the banksters and politicos didn't like the answer (because it didn't involve them), so they intervened.

 

The solution will then have to be governmental. In order to halt the economic collapse, government will...

 

:rolleyes: you are advocating solving an economic problem caused by gov't intervention with yet more gov't intervention.

 

genius.

 

From a "free market" perspective this would be a fixing of the gold price.

 

it would be extorting gold from people under threats of kidnapping and locking up. that's what a gold standard is.

 

This is the end game imo and will solve trade/ currency imbalances/ instabilities at the same time by fixng currencies at the appropriate levels to gold.

 

if you think countries on a gold standard don't have trade imbalances, you need to recheck your history.

 

subjective.

 

This will also allow money/ trade to find an equilibrium between nations as it finds its natural level due to gold serving as a kind of natural "ballast" to trade.

 

illogical to expect something to find a 'natural' (doesn't that sound lovely) level when you're forcing people to use it at gunpoint.

 

For those that have a bias against government for whatever reason, consider that a gold standard is a natural restraint on what governments can and can not do.

 

:lol: what planet are you on?

 

look around you. do you see any national currencies backed by gold?

 

no, you don't. that means every gov't that was ever on a gold standard simply abandoned the gold standard when it 'got in the way'.

 

gov't is a violent monopoly and they will do whatever the hell they want, so long as their extortion efforts fund their operations.

 

and there's nothing natural about it.

 

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market methodology was in the process of working through solutions, but the banksters and politicos didn't like the answer (because it didn't involve them), so they intervened.

Amen.

 

And for currencies, we simply need FREE markets and free competition. That would put things on checks and balances.

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