GOLD

[nicejim]

Well, that's a suggestive post.

 

1. Infinity

 

2. Unknown, but something greater than zero.

+1 but...

 

For question 1 it depends on what you mean by a Dollar. For example, you might say you can't buy gold with French Francs but an old French banknote or coin still has retail value. Are those still Francs? I have a 26.73 gram coin which is 90% silver and the writing on it tells me it is a United States Dollar. I guess I'll always be able to swap it for gold, but is it a Dollar...or is it $16.04?.

 

So, "Which of these two questions is easier to answer?"

 

Err...neither

[grumpy-old-man]

sorry if its already been posted:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...s-just-shrugged

 

Submitted by Adrian Douglas of GATA

 

Adtlas Just Shrugged

 

On September 15 former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan made a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. Some very interesting comments he made with respect to gold in response to a question were reported in an editorial in yesterday's New York Sun, "Greenspan's Warning on Gold":

 

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/greenspans...g-on-gold/87080

 

On this occasion Greenspan, who has been famous for gobbledygook that leaves the audience guessing what he meant, did not mince his words. He said, "Fiat money has no place to go but gold."

 

 

[romans holiday]

The Wall Street Journal

 

The 10 Biggest Myths About Gold

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...0661947896.html

Gold has been the investment phenomenon of the past decade. It hit a new high of $1,278 an ounce this week. In the past 10 years, investors in gold have made nearly five times their money. Over the same time, Wall Street has gone sideways.

 

But few investments seem to attract more myths and hokum than gold and other precious metals. At the risk of inflaming those on both sides of the issue, here are 10:

 

1. "Gold is overvalued."

 

How can anyone know this? Nobody even knows what gold is worth, so it's impossible to say with any confidence that it's overvalued (or undervalued, for that matter). Some perfectly intelligent people, such as Dylan Grice, a strategist at SG Securities, argue that when compared to the ballooning money supply, gold is still low by historic standards. And even if gold is in a bubble today, it may have a long way to go. As I've pointed out earlier this year, as our accompanying chart shows, at a comparable stage Nasdaq (1998) and real estate (2003) still had a couple of years to run.

 

2. "The smart money got out of gold a long time ago."

 

Really? People have been saying that for at least five years. Yet hedge-fund honcho John Paulson has got nearly $4 billion of his firm's money in the SPDR Gold Trust exchange-traded fund. George Soros has $650 million in the ETF. Every month Bank of America/Merrill Lynch conducts a survey of the world's top fund managers. About six years ago, when gold was around $400 an ounce, I suggested they started asking the money managers about gold. Initially they got few responses. Few cared enough even to venture an opinion. More recently, while interest has risen, the skepticism has remained. For the last two and a half years, apart from a brief moment in early 2009, money managers have pretty consistently told the interviewers that gold was overvalued, and usually by a wide margin. During that time it's risen from around $850 an ounce to nearly $1,300.

.......

 

Check out the cool graphic on the "bubble meter" [you can click on each asset class at the top]. Not that I think gold can get in a bubble....

[grumpy-old-man]

sorry if its already been posted:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...s-just-shrugged

 

Submitted by Adrian Douglas of GATA

 

Adtlas Just Shrugged

 

On September 15 former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan made a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. Some very interesting comments he made with respect to gold in response to a question were reported in an editorial in yesterday's New York Sun, "Greenspan's Warning on Gold":

 

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/greenspans...g-on-gold/87080

 

On this occasion Greenspan, who has been famous for gobbledygook that leaves the audience guessing what he meant, did not mince his words. He said, "Fiat money has no place to go but gold."

 

oh and thanks to cdswamp (swampy) for the link & heads up on that very important GATA post.

[Peace]

oh and thanks to cdswamp (swampy) for the link & heads up on that very important GATA post.

 

 

The fight continues

 

http://news.goldseek.com/GATA/1208758200.php

Thus, the fight over gold and silver as media of exchange is about more than mere money, let alone making money. For it is a fight with only two possible outcomes: either control of their own lives by the people themselves, or control of the people and their lives by political and economic elitists. To achieve the first and avoid the second no price will prove too great to pay.

[Concrete Jungle]

Hmm I wonder what else could end up hidden in the small print / ambiguous wording of this legislation?

 

interesting.....

 

http://seekingalpha.com/article/225579-con...et-gold-hearing

 

"Just as the government is trying to prevent people from investing in anything other than T-Bills by raising taxes on taxable interest and dividends to confiscatory levels, it's also trying to prevent you from parking your wealth in assets, like gold, that compete with the paper dollars issued by the Federal Reserve and the Treasury. A press release from Rep. Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, not yet (as of this instant) posted on Mr. Weiner's Web site, announces that a September 23 hearing of the Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection (a subcommittee of Rep. Henry Waxman's Commerce Committee) will focus on "legislation that would regulate gold-selling companies, an industry who's [sic] relentless advertising is now staple of cable television."

 

From the press release: "Under Rep. Weiner's bill, companies like Goldline would be required to disclose the reasonable resale value of items being sold." That's great. Are Mr. Weiner and Chairman Bernanke also going to agree to print on every dollar the reasonable expectation that its value will be eroded by inflation?"

[romans holiday]

The fight continues

 

Thus, the fight over gold and silver as media of exchange is about more than mere money, let alone making money. For it is a fight with only two possible outcomes: either control of their own lives by the people themselves, or control of the people and their lives by political and economic elitists. To achieve the first and avoid the second no price will prove too great to pay.

 

A call to arms and revolution?

[Peace]

A call to arms and revolution?

best to just not be there and avoid them all

[njpurser]

The platform is Maxblue by Deutsche Bank. Many of the (IMO) "sucker" options have been signed by good old RBS. Dt. Bank itself is selling too of course, but I have not yet started looking into the details. For now it seems that the bailouts are limitless, but I prefer to write off the money at the outset and be positively surprised if I make some money.

 

 

As I said, this will be a very small amount, but the idea is to drain some money out of the banking system since I expect much higher prices than any of their models can anticipate. If I buy 10,000 options at $ 0.001 and a strike of $60 for silver, I spend 10 bucks but the return if silver goes to $100 is $400,000. As I said, this will not divert any of my physical investments, but seems a better bet to me than the state lottery. (This was just for illustration, I will have to look more specifically into what I can realistically get.)

 

I've been considering a similar strategy myself for a year.

So I'm in.

 

How do we do this? I think we ought to get going, before "they" cotton on....

 

Nick

[G0ldfinger]

I've been considering a similar strategy myself for a year.

So I'm in.

 

How do we do this? I think we ought to get going, before "they" cotton on....

 

Nick

I have been browsing through potential candidates for this, but it's somewhat tedious work and I am pretty busy with other things right now. I might start with silver and oil calls.

[Errol]

Alan Greenspan spoke at the Council on Foreign Relations earlier today, and what was his advice?

 

Said the former Fed chairman: “If all currencies are moving up or down together, the question is: relative to what? Gold is the canary in the coal mine. It signals problems with respect to currency markets. Central banks should pay attention to it.”

 

http://jsmineset.com/2010/09/17/jims-mailbox-539/

[grumpy-old-man]

Alan Greenspan spoke at the Council on Foreign Relations earlier today, and what was his advice?

 

Said the former Fed chairman: “If all currencies are moving up or down together, the question is: relative to what? Gold is the canary in the coal mine. It signals problems with respect to currency markets. Central banks should pay attention to it.”

 

http://jsmineset.com/2010/09/17/jims-mailbox-539/

 

 

he actually spoke 2 days ago on the 15th, but I put this up earlier Errol:

 

sorry if its already been posted:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...s-just-shrugged

 

Submitted by Adrian Douglas of GATA

 

Adtlas Just Shrugged

 

On September 15 former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan made a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. Some very interesting comments he made with respect to gold in response to a question were reported in an editorial in yesterday's New York Sun, "Greenspan's Warning on Gold":

 

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/greenspans...g-on-gold/87080

 

On this occasion Greenspan, who has been famous for gobbledygook that leaves the audience guessing what he meant, did not mince his words. He said, "Fiat money has no place to go but gold."

[Crashman begins]

QUOTE (grumpy-old-man @ Sep 17 2010, 12:46 PM) *

sorry if its already been posted:

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...s-just-shrugged

 

Submitted by Adrian Douglas of GATA

 

Adtlas Just Shrugged

 

On September 15 former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan made a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. Some very interesting comments he made with respect to gold in response to a question were reported in an editorial in yesterday's New York Sun, "Greenspan's Warning on Gold":

 

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/greenspans...g-on-gold/87080

 

On this occasion Greenspan, who has been famous for gobbledygook that leaves the audience guessing what he meant, did not mince his words. He said, "Fiat money has no place to go but gold." ohmy.gif unsure.gif

 

FIAT COATED WITH 24K GOLD

 

I'll get my coat

[Perishabull]

Looks like a potential topping for gold. Quite comfortable with not owning any.

[G0ldfinger]

Looks like a potential topping for gold. Quite comfortable with not owning any.

Oh-oh, another top caller.

 

It somehow does not look like a top to me.

 

http://gold.approximity.com/since1930/Gold-GDP-Ratio.html

[Errol]

Looks like a potential topping for gold. Quite comfortable with not owning any.

 

Short term, perhaps. Long term the price could go to $5000 +.

[Steve Netwriter]

I keep banging away at the paradigm, but it seems to persist.

 

It doesn't take MORE currency to cause the "gold price" to rise. It only needs a loss of faith in the currency, for the currency to DECLINE.

If you break free of the false currency based paradigm, things become very simple and clear.

 

The "gold price" to $5000? Really? You think the US$ will only DECLINE to 5000 for an oz of gold.

I think that is highly implausible.

If they pull it off, they will really deserve medals. It will be achieving the impossible. I will salute Ben Bernanke and kiss his shoes.

 

[romans holiday]

I keep banging away at the paradigm, but it seems to persist.

 

It doesn't take MORE currency to cause the "gold price" to rise. It only needs a loss of faith in the currency, for the currency to DECLINE.

If you break free of the false currency based paradigm, things become very simple and clear.

 

The "gold price" to $5000? Really? You think the US$ will only DECLINE to 5000 for an oz of gold.

I think that is highly implausible.

If they pull it off, they will really deserve medals. It will be achieving the impossible. I will salute Ben Bernanke and kiss his shoes.

That may be because not all gold bulls buy into the hyper-inflation paradigm Steve. There really is more than just one or two paradigms/ interpretations about.

[grumpy-old-man]

September Surprise

 

"For several months there have been constant rumors that the financial markets would be clobbered by some kind of unexpected horrible development in September. Several commentators have referred to this expected coming bad news as the “September Surprise.” The expected result of this bad news is that the prices of gold and silver would soar while the value of paper assets plummeted.

 

Well, we have gone more the first half of the month without such an exciting development. Jim Willie, who writes the Hat Trick Letter, has information from his sources that the September Surprise could happen as early as next week."

[d2thdr]

That may be because not all gold bulls buy into the hyper-inflation paradigm Steve. There really is more than just one or two paradigms/ interpretations about.

 

But there does not need to be hyperinflation for gold to reach 5000$/oz or 50000$/oz. There is a higher chance of hyperinflation the higher the gold climbs. There is a very little chance of deflation with rising gold prices.

[romans holiday]

But there does not need to be hyperinflation for gold to reach 5000$/oz or 50000$/oz. There is a higher chance of hyperinflation the higher the gold climbs. There is a very little chance of deflation with rising gold prices.

Gold can double, triple or even quadruple from here without hyper-inflation involved OR even inflation involved. The best representation of this is Exter's reverse liquidity triangle. Notice in the triangle, monetary value moves from the higher tranches to the lower. The dollar strengthens relative to the assets above [deflation in asset prices] while gold at the same time strengthens against the dollar. To internationalize this, most other currencies would be above the dollar in the triangle [you could call this deflation of currencies against gold; "hyper-deflation"].

 

The focal point of the triangle is gold, not the dollar. This puts quite a diiferent slant on the usual inflation/ deflation debate, which tends to be currency/price-centric; most people are looking for CPI to tell them whether we have inflation or deflation. But if monetary value is eroding from a currency then we should be looking beyond the numbers/ prices.... because the stick being used to measure - the currency - is itself in flux. A fixation on prices [and units of currency] is classic money illusion.... an idea that many have lost sight of.

 

The triangle is more subtle than this. Instead of price-centricity, it is value-centric. Inflation/ deflation is understood in terms of monetary value, and that value is measured in terms of gold. Currencies, are also measured in terms of gold. Thus it makes sense to say we have deflation in monetary value from all monetary assets as measured by gold.

 

 

 

[Pixel8r]

But there does not need to be hyperinflation for gold to reach 5000$/oz or 50000$/oz. There is a higher chance of hyperinflation the higher the gold climbs. There is a very little chance of deflation with rising gold prices.

I disagree there have been times when there has been rising gold prices and deflation in the 1930's.

[Carlton]

Looks like a potential topping for gold. Quite comfortable with not owning any.

This is what we hear in powerful bull markets that repeatedly set new highs - over and over, a top, a top.

[romans holiday]

This is what we hear in powerful bull markets that repeatedly set new highs - over and over, a top, a top.

As they say, bull markets climb a wall of worry.

 

The wall this gold bull will climb is deflation concerns due to the conventional opinion that deflation is negative for gold.

[grumpy-old-man]

link from Strongman Shelford this guy is a fantastic poster, lived through the Argentinian Hyperinflation & is very humble.

 

his post on glp said:

 

 

"CANADA MAINSTREAM MEDIA CANCELLED INTERVIEW ABOUT GOLD SUPPRESION

Quote

 

sO BASICALLY NOw, silver is exploding. Gold is making new record highs.

it is said that JPMORGAN is closing short positions.

(check my previous threads)

They are getting ready for more inflation? war? Why gold and silver are going now?

 

 

There is a GOLD SUPPRESSION SCHEME in the financial markets.

 

Your local mainstream media won`t tell you about it!

 

Look what has just happened in Canada!

 

Strongman Shelford

 

 

In the space of a few hours last week, Canada's Business News Network invited GATA Chairman Bill Murphy to be interviewed at its headquarters in Toronto during the Toronto Resource Investment Conference next weekend and then withdrew the invitation on the grounds that GATA is "too controversial." GATA is unaware of anything it did in those few hours to become particularly more controversial than when the invitation was made, and so people may wonder whether BNN has fallen victim to pressure from outside sources that don't want the gold price suppression story to be reported even in a major gold-mining nation. Canadians who would like to see Murphy interviewed on BNN anyway can express themselves to the network here:

 

http://www.bnn.ca/contactus.aspx

 

Of course being anything except polite will not help.

 

Murphy discusses the BNN invitation's issuance and withdrawal in commentary posted today at GoldSeek, "Lack of Free Press in Canada," here:

 

http://news.goldseek.com/LemetropoleCafe/1284937260.php

 

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer

Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

 

Source: http://www.gata.org/node/9030"