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No, not the norm, more in the way of just a temporary fluctuation. Fundamentals in the medium/ long term should see Euro weaken against dollar [imo] and even more against gold.... wait for the next European crisis to rear its head. But due to volatility, things can go anyway in the short term. Every which way but loose... I feel a song coming on. lol

 

As for news, the media is like the eye of Sauron at the moment, frantically looking this way then that for the latest threat to wealth and power. lol

IMO all fiat currencies are depreciating together, some just a bit faster than others.

 

 

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Depends on definitions.

 

You could say gold is neither; it's not a formal currency..... yet. But then, once it is formally monetized, with a gold standard, you could think of it as a super-currency... that which prices currencies.

 

Neither does it makes sense to say gold is money per se. Many things can function as money.... fiat and gold included. Just that gold may function better over the long term and in periods of crisis.

 

Personally, I like to say gold is the strongest symbol of money. This gives gold a premium position [while allowing that money is primarily a general idea, which avoids the theoretical can of worms involved with saying gold IS money]. This is why we tend to go back to gold in crises... and why gold was what modern representative currencies originally represented.

 

That's newspeak. Why make things complicated? Does mankind love making things difficult to understand? Is that why people use financial advisors? Why not just accept the elders of the past knew certain things better than we do, though we think we know more now?

 

Opinions matter to ensure debate proceeds. Facts can end debates.

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That's newspeak. Why make things complicated? Does mankind love making things difficult to understand? Is that why people use financial advisors? Why not just accept the elders of the past knew certain things better than we do, though we think we know more now?

 

Opinions matter to ensure debate proceeds. Facts can end debates.

I prefer to look at it all practically.... I mean money performs primarily a practical function right.

 

But the problem is once you state such things as "gold IS NOT a currency, gold IS money [and usually nothing else]" you are taking it into the sphere of theory by stating exactly what you think gold, money and currencies ARE.

 

The problem is this theory is not too well thought through, and tends just to appeal to those who have already bought into the "parallel universe" of the gold bug.....debate-ending facts. :)

 

 

By leaving it as "gold functions AS money [besides other things]" one can leave it in the practical sphere.

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I prefer to look at it all practically.... I mean money performs primarily a practical function right.

 

But the problem is once you state such things as "gold IS NOT a currency, gold IS money" you are taking it into the sphere of theory by stating exactly what you think gold, money and currencies ARE.

 

By leaving it as "gold functions AS money" one can leave it in the practical sphere.

 

The problem is this theory is not too well thought through, and tends just to appeal to those who have already bought into the "parallel universe" of the gold bug. :)

 

 

For someone who has a position in gold, you have a curiously dismissive attitude to others who hold gold. By using the term' gold bug', you are assuming that all the 'bugs' think alike and as for inhabiting a parallel universe, is that the one that is exactly the same as this one but without you? :lol:

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For someone who has a position in gold, you have a curiously dismissive attitude to others who hold gold. By using the term' gold bug', you are assuming that all the 'bugs' think alike and as for inhabiting a parallel universe, is that the one that is exactly the same as this one but without you? :lol:

Not all who hold gold are gold bugs.... many would just consider themselves gold bulls, as I do.

 

Generally speaking, I think it's safe to say there's such a thing the gold bug worldview, which tends to be anti-government, hyper-inflationary, and quite doom and gloom. I don't really dismiss these views, but I do disagree with them. I'm sure there are other things I'd agree with along with gold bugs. I don't use the word derogatively.

 

I think many would also agree there is a tendency for those with very strident views to create a kind of "parallel universe"... so to speak... which has its own "debate-ending facts" to use D2's interesting phrase.

 

I prefer rational discussion, and to debate the ideas openly and honestly.

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IMO you RH (and many ) think about people who just buy gold and do no trade the markets, who do not follow asset allocation, never look at gold silver ratios are 'gold bugs'. Not only are you wrong, but also you are trying to somehow convince yourself about the safety of dollars you hold. Good luck with whatever happens.

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IMO you RH (and many ) think about people who just buy gold and do no trade the markets, who do not follow asset allocation, never look at gold silver ratios are 'gold bugs'. Not only are you wrong, but also you are trying to somehow convince yourself about the safety of dollars you hold. Good luck with whatever happens.

Well, I might not consider myself a gold bug [not into the far right political stuff], but I can say I have a foot in the gold bug camp.

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Says who?

 

Says me.

 

It's just my opinion. Apologies if I am tipping ove a few sacred cows here, I just like to be realistic about the here and now (as in here and now).

 

'Gold is money' is is a universal fact. It is not an opinion.

 

When someone starts yakking about a 'universal fact' I tend to start heading fro the exits (It's the new paradigm!! This time it's different!!).

 

Mostly this kind of debate about gold being money or not is intellectual ononism in abstraction.

 

Most folks understand 'money' on a gutteral level not on an intellectual one.

 

'What's my money worth. What can I buy with it? How much?'

 

Just because they do not accept gold in a supermarket right now in the UK does not make it anything other than money. In most third world countries they would happily accept the gold as money.

 

I don't live in the third world.

 

I live in the UK - the world's 6th largest economy and 5th largest by purchasing power parity.

 

Gold is not accepted as 'money' here (De facto! - The Irony).

 

I cannot (right now) walk into just about any supermarket for example and buy something with my gold.

 

Therefore by my definition of money, it isn't.

 

What's the big deal about saying this? It's just how it is right now - but as ever, everything is subject to change.

 

Besides I thought you guys were never gonna part with your gold anyway?

 

Why would you be giving it to third world shop keepers and the like???

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Says me.

 

It's just my opinion. Apologies if I am tipping ove a few sacred cows here, I just like to be realistic about the here and now (as in here and now).

 

 

 

When someone starts yakking about a 'universal fact' I tend to start heading fro the exits (It's the new paradigm!! This time it's different!!).

 

Mostly this kind of debate about gold being money or not is intellectual ononism in abstraction.

 

Most folks understand 'money' on a gutteral level not on an intellectual one.

 

'What's my money worth. What can I buy with it? How much?'

 

 

 

I don't live in the third world.

 

I live in the UK - the world's 6th largest economy and 5th largest by purchasing power parity.

 

Gold is not accepted as 'money' here (De facto! - The Irony).

 

I cannot (right now) walk into just about any supermarket for example and buy something with my gold.

 

Therefore by my definition of money, it isn't.

 

What's the big deal about saying this? It's just how it is right now - but as ever, everything is subject to change.

 

Besides I thought you guys were never gonna part with your gold anyway?

 

Why would you be giving it to third world shop keepers and the like???

 

 

OK chief, you win.

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OK chief, you win.

 

I'm not trying to win.

 

I just have a point of view and that can and is subject to change.

 

For countries like the UK, at present Gold is not money.

 

Even though UK gold coins are legal tender, no established retail type business (at least to my current knowledge) would accept them, because of many issues, some legit, some less so.

 

Maybe that will change soon - who knows the future?

 

Good Luck.

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I think the use of currency as a medium of exchange and gold as a long-term store of wealth should not be confused. Unfortunately, because of the short attention span of most people, currency is often used to store wealth. With real inflation factored in, ordinary interest bearing savings, dwindle in value but so slowly that most cannot see it - indeed, many think the money is earning them interest!

 

The slowly boiled frog may soon however receive a nasty sudden rise in temperature which may wake him up enough to jump out of the pan!

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I live in the UK - the world's 6th largest economy and 5th largest by purchasing power parity.

 

Gold is not accepted as 'money' here (De facto! - The Irony).

 

I cannot (right now) walk into just about any supermarket for example and buy something with my gold.

 

Therefore by my definition of money, it isn't.

 

What's the big deal about saying this? It's just how it is right now - but as ever, everything is subject to change.

You cannot buy goods with USD or JPY etc in a British supermarket. Therefore by your test they are not money either. Is this really your opinion?

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MasterCard Worldwide is a leading global payments solutions company that provides a family of well-known, widely-accepted payment card brands including MasterCard®, Maestro® and Cirrus® and serves consumers, financial institutions, and businesses in over 210 countries and territories worldwide.

 

Credit is money!

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I'm very interested that gold been uncharacteristically stable for the last two days, barely moving out of the $1290 to $1295 band. You don't think there might be attempts to prevent it from breaking through $1,300?

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Got me some major fiat that I want to be rid of. Probably going to be my final lot (really). Mainly because my salary isn't going to keep up at $1500, 2000, 3000, 4000 etc an oz. The remaining fiat with be just for living expenses. So you can blame me if the Da Boyz jam a clamp on the 'short gold and silver' button within the next few days. Apologies in advance!

Tapped out? May I suggest...Poor mans gold?

:lol:

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All I do is take these funny little rectangular pieces of paper or those electronic digits that appear on my computer screen that our zombie banks and governments call money and I turn them into silver and gold. The medieval alchemists never even go close to that miracle! I am turning paper into gold, it's awesome! We should be thanking the collective boneheads who make this magic possible.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I like that sig!

 

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I like that sig!

Except he's not turning paper into gold. He's converting one method of payment deferral (debt) into another (gold).

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Gold holds near record high on currency fears

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE67F05920100923

"In its Sept 12 meeting, the FOMC indicated that the current sub-par U.S. economic growth needs to improve, re-iterating its commitment to further quantitative easing if this was not the case," said BNP Paribas analyst Anne-Laure Tremblay.

 

"The FOMC announcement was positive for gold, and by extension silver, with both metals rising sharply.

 

"If gold could dip on short-term profit taking, its outlook remains strong in light of QE implications in terms of dollar weakness and longer term inflation expectations," she said.

 

......

"Heightened fears of the currency debasement that could result from an expanding Fed balance sheet, the potential for the Bank of England to follow suit, and last week's yen intervention all compound gold's medium-term allure," said UBS analyst Edel Tully in a note.

 

TECHNICAL PICTURE FIRM

 

From a technical perspective, gold remains firm after hitting record highs for five consecutive sessions to Wednesday.

 

Technical analysts at Barclays Capital said in a note: "$1,300 should be a pivot and natural area for the market to take profits but overall, the all-time new highs are holding, as is our bullish bias and focus."

 

They added: "$1,258/71 should now be support."

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ouo.gif

 

 

Thought this was of some interest. Compared to good gains in gold, oil has only increased 10% this past year... and is threatening to go lower if the US GDP figures are down-graded; a lower GDP figure, lower demand for oil.

 

Many who see gold doing well in the future, also see commodities doing well... and are essentially commodity bulls. Listening to James Turk latest podcast* is interesting where he states commodities will do well due to " money looking for a home". Looking at the example of oil, the commodity par excellent, this idea of excess money going into commodities is hardly being confirmed.

 

imo gold is in a league of its own here.

 

 

*

http://radio.goldseek.com/nuggets.php

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You cannot buy goods with USD or JPY etc in a British supermarket. Therefore by your test they are not money either. Is this really your opinion?

 

They are not money within this defined territory (the UK). US Dollars are money in the US and wherever you can readily exchange them for goods in a 'routine' transaction.

 

If someone gave me some US Dollars, I'd get shot of them sharpish and turn them into something I could spend or invest.

 

Gold to me is Insurance against meddling, crises etc and a store of wealth.

 

Sometime in the future it may be accepted as money in the non-intellectual 'man in the street' sense.

 

Until that time....

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Sometime in the future it may be accepted as money in the non-intellectual 'man in the street' sense.

 

Until that time....

I doubt gold will ever exchange hands that way.

 

A renewed standard would enable countries to exchange goods and services of equal value, or to make good the difference with gold.

 

I reckon the man in the street will still be using the currencies we have today.

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They are not money within this defined territory (the UK). US Dollars are money in the US and wherever you can readily exchange them for goods in a 'routine' transaction.

Well if you genuinely don't think US Dollars, Euros etc. are money if you happen to be in the UK, or that Sterling is not money once you're more than halfway through the channel tunnel, then I can see why you would not think gold is money either. I don't think the "man on the street" would cease to regard a £20 note as money simply because he is on holiday in Ibiza.

 

The argument of whether gold is money is distinct from any argument as to whether gold is a local currency.

 

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I do not know where I should post this

 

link

 

But today, after 120 years of mining, the gold is disappearing, hundreds of mine shafts have been abandoned, and Johannesburg is facing a nightmare of biblical proportions: a vast tide of poisonous water rising inexorably toward the foundations of the city itself.

 

The problem is known as “acid mine drainage” and it has affected mining regions around the world, including Canada. With nearly 6,000 abandoned mines across the country, South Africa is more endangered than any other. But no metropolis is as threatened as Johannesburg, and the situation here offers a glimpse of what might some day happen in parts of Canada if the problem is not properly managed.

 

More than a century after the first gold boom, South Africa’s miners are digging deeper and deeper to find the remaining bits of gold in their waning industry. Some of their mine shafts now extend nearly four kilometres below the earth’s surface – the deepest in the world. As the minerals disappear, thousands of mines have been abandoned by their owners, leaving the government to struggle with the drainage threat.

 

Does printing press cause environmental damage?

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I do not know where I should post this

 

link

 

 

 

 

 

Does printing press cause environmental damage?

Compare and contrast with Bob Moriarty, who thinks Spanish nimbyists should not be allowed to prevent Bob Moriarty making a fortune whilst providing a few jobs for the locals. He'll be on a golf course far from the destruction by the time the acid mine drainage starts.

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/moriarty...arty092210.html

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Well if you genuinely don't think US Dollars, Euros etc. are money if you happen to be in the UK, or that Sterling is not money once you're more than halfway through the channel tunnel, then I can see why you would not think gold is money either.

 

I didn't say 'think' - that is your word, not mine. I said they are not money (within this defined territory).

 

I don't think the "man on the street" would cease to regard a £20 note as money simply because he is on holiday in Ibiza.

 

Exactly. Each nation of people regards their own money as 'real' (to them). And thinks in those terms.

 

Hence when you are trying to work out what something is in dollars to pounds, you think in terms of your local money (currency).

 

The argument of whether gold is money is distinct from any argument as to whether gold is a local currency.

 

That's ononistic intellectualism - this sort of thing means nothing to most people, it's a circle jerk abstraction.

 

If Gold is money - go into Tesco's now and offer to pay for your shopping with it.

 

Will they accept it - No?

 

Then it's not (currently regarded as) money (cash), here and now. Certainly gold is regarded as being valuable - but that's obviously different.

 

Most people think of money as cash. "What can I buy with it?" "What's it cost?" etc.

 

What you or I think (or whether we think that is fair or natural), is irrelevant.

 

It is what is, that is most important now and not what could or may be.

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