Bosworth Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Congrats. And now, don't lose it. No chance. Already poured everything we've currently saved into PMs. I was on a training course a couple of weeks ago and people were lamenting the state of the £. Incredibly, people did not realise you could buy gold so readily. Really hammered it home when I took a lovely shiny maple in the next day... We've all got to do our bit! (edit: clarification) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicejim Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 No chance. Already poured everything we've currently saved into PMs. I was on a training course a couple of weeks ago and people were lamenting the state of the £. Incredibly, people did not realise you could buy gold so readily. Really hammered it home when I took a lovely shiny maple in the next day... We've all got to do our bit! (edit: clarification) Tax affairs and home-storage of valuables are things best kept secret I use a 1/10oz Krug for educational purposes, all the rest is in Zurich...ish. Congrats on the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Mustard Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well I've finally put my money where my mouth is... ...and sold to rent. Completing tomorrow and moving my family into rented, despite ENORMOUS emotional pressure from everyone around me. It's a lonely place being right... Managed to offload a "prime london riverside flat" (2 bed, 2 bath) for a shade under £600k. Feels glorious to be free... A courageous and commendable move. I hope it works out. (I think it will). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorSolar Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well I've finally put my money where my mouth is... ...and sold to rent. Completing tomorrow and moving my family into rented, despite ENORMOUS emotional pressure from everyone around me. It's a lonely place being right... Managed to offload a "prime london riverside flat" (2 bed, 2 bath) for a shade under £600k. Feels glorious to be free... I know precisely how you feel. We sold to rent in April 2008 and there just seems to be this constant under current of expectation that we should be buying soon especially now we have a wee baby daughter. But it was not so much courageous on our part to move really. With the arrival of the baby we needed more space but simply could not afford the mortgage. Renting is MUCH cheaper and we can put the spare cash in to PMs. Until this situation changes we will continue to rent as it simply makes basic financial sense. The price fluctuations in PMs can be stomach churning at times though! Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWIW Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Everyone's situaton is different - just to be clear to everyone that I have never STR'd nor do I plan to. I never liked the idea of being a tenant. Those that have STR'd have much bigger b***s than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barsark Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Returning, to the previous mentions of the new fsa lending guidelines, has anyone here established how existing customers - that did abuse the lax standards at the time - will be treated, upon renewel? Does an existing mortgage holder need to meet new criteria, upon renewal? The ramifications of an environment of harsh treatment of such people, in such numbers as is prevelant, would surely be dire for the already limping market? http://www.moneyweek.com/news-and-charts/e...shes-14671.aspx As the above article points out, returning to three times salary is unworkable given current prices - without some major corrections. Also, there seems to be the potential for a pre 2010 implication rush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrieb Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well I've finally put my money where my mouth is......and sold to rent. Completing tomorrow and moving my family into rented, despite ENORMOUS emotional pressure from everyone around me. It's a lonely place being right... Managed to offload a "prime london riverside flat" (2 bed, 2 bath) for a shade under £600k. Feels glorious to be free... From: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicejim Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 has anyone here established how existing customers - that did abuse the lax standards at the time - will be treated, upon renewel? ... As the above article points out, returning to three times salary is unworkable given current prices - without some major corrections. Also, there seems to be the potential for a pre 2010 implication rush? I think Cgnao has a smillie for that. If their income has improved they might get away with it. ... It's more to do with affordability than income multiples. I suppose this makes sense, because if someone can afford £500 rent they can afford £500 mortgage, nomatter what their income is. This will have to be stress tested for higher interest rates though. http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Commun.../2009/140.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicejim Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 bFDCEVpxW7g If you look closely, he's shouting "Suckerrrrrrr!" whilst running to the nearest gold dealer with £600k in notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barsark Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I think Cgnao has a smillie for that. If their income has improved they might get away with it. ... It's more to do with affordability than income multiples. I suppose this makes sense, because if someone can afford £500 rent they can afford £500 mortgage, nomatter what their income is. This will have to be stress tested for higher interest rates though. http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Commun.../2009/140.shtml .....and what does a £500 mortgage get you these days? So by this, do we have to assume that mortgages will be removed from those unable to afford according to the new rules? Many people stretched their affordability chasing the ellusive property profits or merely trying to keep up with the Jones', I know bank managers, doctors and people who, in no other field of life lie, but did so to remain in the property game, all of these would be ruined The results would be horrific, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No6 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Land Registry job cuts. The Land Registry wants to axe 1,500 posts - about 25% of its workforce - as part of a five-year plan to cut costs. The registry believes the closure of offices in Croydon, Peterborough, Portsmouth, Stevenage and Tunbridge Wells will also help save £92m a year. The proposals will make the registry "fit for the future", it says. The Public and Commercial Services (PCS) union said the proposals had left staff "shocked and angry", and that the plans could damage services. A statement on the Land Registry website said the "reorganisation and transformation... will cut its costs significantly and put it in the best possible position to deliver the services its customers demand". The government body, which registers all land ownership transactions in England and Wales, is funded by fees charged for its services and receives no taxpayers' money. The property market downturn in the recession led to a loss in 2008-9, with another loss predicted this year. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8320286.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It happens we might buy a house soon for a number of personal reasons. Running through the sums though, I can see that once back in the UK we could happily spend my salary on normal living even before we paid any sort of mortgage - I don't mean extravagant living, but just 'living' - food, heat, light, council tax, clothes, sink fund for house repairs, car depreciation. I increasingly don't understand how most people get buy in the UK unless they put no money aside for repairs etc; or live on credit. Either way, I sense something will go 'bump' for the vast majority of people. I also believe this sixth quarter of recession will strike home as a concept and puncture some of the recent ebullience. (I hope so - I'm short most indices!). I'm considering, if we do decide to buy, whether to load up with a sizeable mortgage (2.5 - 3 times my sole income) on the basis this would give us funds to invest e.g. keep some of my gold intact, or just go 'all-in' and not take on debt. I realise that buying a house isn't a wealth-maximising solution. But we've previously made good money on houses and so in some ways don't mind if we have to lose on a house if it gives us security of tenure (we're global gypsies and my employer can move us at a stroke when we are overseas, so this is important to our family when we are back in the UK). Any views on this? (not on the buy/don't buy question, I know most people's views on that here). On a related point, so I get a feel for where you all come from, what percentage/multiple of salary saved up and invested in things tangible (not houses) would people feel they'd need to feel comfortably 'protected' against inflation? I suspect some people's gold stashes on here are several x income, but others are just a few % - and this affects how to interpret what people are saying on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It happens we might buy a house soon for a number of personal reasons. Running through the sums though, I can see that once back in the UK we could happily spend my salary on normal living even before we paid any sort of mortgage - I don't mean extravagant living, but just 'living' - food, heat, light, council tax, clothes, sink fund for house repairs, car depreciation. I increasingly don't understand how most people get buy in the UK unless they put no money aside for repairs etc; or live on credit. Either way, I sense something will go 'bump' for the vast majority of people. I also believe this sixth quarter of recession will strike home as a concept and puncture some of the recent ebullience. (I hope so - I'm short most indices!). I'm considering, if we do decide to buy, whether to load up with a sizeable mortgage (2.5 - 3 times my sole income) on the basis this would give us funds to invest e.g. keep some of my gold intact, or just go 'all-in' and not take on debt. I realise that buying a house isn't a wealth-maximising solution. But we've previously made good money on houses and so in some ways don't mind if we have to lose on a house if it gives us security of tenure (we're global gypsies and my employer can move us at a stroke when we are overseas, so this is important to our family when we are back in the UK). Any views on this? (not on the buy/don't buy question, I know most people's views on that here). On a related point, so I get a feel for where you all come from, what percentage/multiple of salary saved up and invested in things tangible (not houses) would people feel they'd need to feel comfortably 'protected' against inflation? I suspect some people's gold stashes on here are several x income, but others are just a few % - and this affects how to interpret what people are saying on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarus Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 It happens we might buy a house soon for a number of personal reasons. Running through the sums though, I can see that once back in the UK we could happily spend my salary on normal living even before we paid any sort of mortgage - I don't mean extravagant living, but just 'living' - food, heat, light, council tax, clothes, sink fund for house repairs, car depreciation. I increasingly don't understand how most people get buy in the UK unless they put no money aside for repairs etc; or live on credit. Either way, I sense something will go 'bump' for the vast majority of people. I also believe this sixth quarter of recession will strike home as a concept and puncture some of the recent ebullience. (I hope so - I'm short most indices!). I'm considering, if we do decide to buy, whether to load up with a sizeable mortgage (2.5 - 3 times my sole income) on the basis this would give us funds to invest e.g. keep some of my gold intact, or just go 'all-in' and not take on debt. I realise that buying a house isn't a wealth-maximising solution. But we've previously made good money on houses and so in some ways don't mind if we have to lose on a house if it gives us security of tenure (we're global gypsies and my employer can move us at a stroke when we are overseas, so this is important to our family when we are back in the UK). Any views on this? (not on the buy/don't buy question, I know most people's views on that here). On a related point, so I get a feel for where you all come from, what percentage/multiple of salary saved up and invested in things tangible (not houses) would people feel they'd need to feel comfortably 'protected' against inflation? I suspect some people's gold stashes on here are several x income, but others are just a few % - and this affects how to interpret what people are saying on the forum. Good luck, dude. Can't offer you much advice. Once you've weighed up everything carefully you've got to do what seems right for you. Maybe it will work out wonderfully or maybe you'll lose your cash. If it goes wrong don't beat yourself up for the choice you made. You did what seemed right at the time. On the other hand, if you make a lot of cash don't let it go to your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 It happens we might buy a house soon for a number of personal reasons. Running through the sums though, I can see that once back in the UK we could happily spend my salary on normal living even before we paid any sort of mortgage - I don't mean extravagant living, but just 'living' - food, heat, light, council tax, clothes, sink fund for house repairs, car depreciation. I increasingly don't understand how most people get buy in the UK unless they put no money aside for repairs etc; or live on credit. Are you winding us up: "We might buy soon... don't understand how most people buy" Surely, you can hold off a few months, and see if we get a renewed slide before the end of Q1! I think prices may be AT LEAST 20-30% lower by year-end 2011. Isnt that worth waiting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I would probably go somewhere halfway, i.e. take on some mortgage but keep back a useful amount of cash/gold etc. Is it really not possible for you to get a good place to rent including some security of tenure, say for 2 years? That's what I would try to get, but I think the hpc is still on, at least in gold terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I will buy next year but not before renting for a few months. I'm living overseas as well but there is no way I will buy without being confident that I will be happy living there for a long time. I really don't know much about good commuting areas for London but I'm thinking Cambridgeshire looks decent value with a reasonable commute time. I also wonder about whether to go cash or leverage up. I think I will just go 3 - 3.5x mortgage, keep the gold as insurance and stick 300k down as payment and go for 250k mortgage. The alternative is cash buying a new build as the builders need cash flow and are less deluded than the average Joe. I've gone off this idea, although the idea of being debt free is appealing I'd probably look to move to a non-estate location so perhaps it's better to make the move in one go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Thanks all, Alas Dr B., I'm not winding you up. I know that a slide is very probable, which is why I'm railing against buying - especially after the considerable bounce UK housing has had following the start of the slide. I know it isn't economically 'rational'. But things are complicated because (a) there are specific reasons for wanting to settle e.g. ill relatives we need to look after ( we've three children and you would not believe how difficult it is to get kids into a reasonable state school in the SE of England - but we've done this (hurray!) © UK tenancy arrangements are horrendously short term (1 year only) which isn't really compatible with stability for the kids - especially when we spend half our live overseas and (d) there is nothing, nothing on for rent in our village. Finally, we don't really want to be rich, but we want to have 'enough': 'Better a little with the fear of the LORD than great wealth with turmoil' (Ps.37:16) and 'Be content with what you have' (Heb 13:5). I know this might sound odd to some, and it certainly isn't meant as preaching. But, if we buy, we will be lucky to have a decent house we can call our own, not owing money to anyone if we choose that. Much of which is due to advice gleaned on this site (so thanks!). And that will put us in a very privileged minority. Sideshow, sounds like we are in virtually identical situations. We're looking Kent, in the villages outside Paddock Wood/Tonbridge/Maidstone. We too may do the hold some back, slap it in gold (actually keep some of the gold we have) options. I'd like to keep some of my S&P shorts running too. But then see para above..., maybe we'll just keep it simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I know this might sound odd to some, and it certainly isn't meant as preaching. But, if we buy, we will be lucky to have a decent house we can call our own, not owing money to anyone if we choose that. Much of which is due to advice gleaned on this site (so thanks!). And that will put us in a very privileged minority. Does sound odd to me at all I am also in a privileged position and hope to buy without owing money to anyone.... don't want to be a debt slave anymore. I am renting but am looking to buy 2011. Went to view a house the other day (which was overvalued) and has been chasing the market down for 3 years. Vendor told me they bought a new build house at peak prices before it was built and they have just moved into it. Their new neighbour with the exact same house just bought it for 150k cheaper than them! The market here has dropped nearly 40%. I viewed the house beside them a while ago. The vendors need to downsize for financial/work reasons because they too bought at the peak. BUT, I don't feel it is my job to bail these people out, and indeed in most cases the surveyor wouldnt even value the houses at the amounts they need to sell at. This is why I have decided to wait till I buy, hopefully things will be a bit more normal by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziknik Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 It happens we might buy a house soon for a number of personal reasons. ... On a related point, so I get a feel for where you all come from, what percentage/multiple of salary saved up and invested in things tangible (not houses) would people feel they'd need to feel comfortably 'protected' against inflation? I suspect some people's gold stashes on here are several x income, but others are just a few % - and this affects how to interpret what people are saying on the forum. I might buy a house soon too. It's going to be a small house, 2 times joint earnings. I'm going to buy it with maximum mortgage and minimum deposit. i.e. sell the minimum amount of gold. I hope to buy a bigger house in 2 to 5 years time. My PM stash is 25% of our joint earnings. How does this affect the way you interpret my view btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I might buy a house soon too. It's going to be a small house, 2 times joint earnings. I'm going to buy it with maximum mortgage and minimum deposit. i.e. sell the minimum amount of gold. I hope to buy a bigger house in 2 to 5 years time. My PM stash is 25% of our joint earnings. How does this affect the way you interpret my view btw? Thanks Ziknik. Allow me to try to explain. I think this site comprises a fantastic and constructive range of people with a range of background and wealths. Dr B, for instance, clearly owns several HK properties outright and a good stash in the bank. Others are hard-up. The wealthier person's motives might be wealth maximisation. The less fortunate are simply seeking to avoid being toasted by the financial crisis. Most are in-between. Some of those saying 'protect yourself, buy physical', might be very wealthy and/or assume others are too. Or they might be harder up and making the same assumption about others. This affects how we should interpret their advice. For example, if someone has only a little wealth, they might want a greater percentage of it in bullion for wealth preservation etc. Hence the fear of nickels/steamrollers. Others who are wealthier and better equipped to shunt money around swiftly might have only a smaller proportion in metals - but still a vastly greater quantity than those who have a larger percentage of their (smaller) wealth in bullion. This also affects attitude to debt/houses. If you can buy a house outright, you might not maximise your wealth by doing it now, but you may not be at too much risk if you can do this and still some some 'stash' left over. And so you might be open to the idea. If you are harder up, or even perhaps much wealthier and can afford several houses, you might think right now is the stupidest time to buy because you either can't afford to make a mistake when borrowing money to buy a house or because (in the latter case), you have one already and simply don't see the rush to buy your 3rd, 4th, 5th house if that was your intention. Been revising for an exam today, so brain is addled. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 If you can buy a house outright, you might not maximise your wealth by doing it now, but you may not be at too much risk if you can do this and still some some 'stash' left over. And so you might be open to the idea. If you are harder up, or even perhaps much wealthier and can afford several houses, you might think right now is the stupidest time to buy because you either can't afford to make a mistake when borrowing money to buy a house or because (in the latter case), you have one already and simply don't see the rush to buy your 3rd, 4th, 5th house if that was your intention. Been revising for an exam today, so brain is addled. Does that make sense? Sure. And the bears might be wrong too, which is enough reason, if you can afford it. As you said earlier, Enough is enough, and if you can afford it, and really want it, go ahead. But be prepared to see the value tumble. If you dont really care about that because the money is trivial, then definitely go ahead if you like it. Personally, I might look for a place that I like (to rent), and try to sign an 18 month, or 24 month lease. I have heard of such things. I believe Financial Planner did that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogwild Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Here are some anecdotals from Allsop & Co ( no!! definately NOT Kirsty!!!) Residential Auction Sale - 29th October 2009 Please note that the following guide prices have been significantly reduced; Lot 172 91 The Causeway, Oxford Street, Woodstock, Oxfordshire OX20 1TL £100,000 to £125,000 (previously £130,000 to £150,000) Lot 203 Flat 5, 2-3 Heene Terrace, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 3NW £80,000+ (previously £100,000 to £110,000) Lot 227 9 Grosvenor Road, Wanstead, London, E11 2EW £1.2 million+ (previously £1.3 to £1.5 million) Lot 244 Ivybank, Wellington Road, Temple Ewell, Dover, Kent, CT16 3DB £200,000 to £250,000 (previously £300,000 to £350,000) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electroweak Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Wanderer, For info, I am a home owner no mortgage. My PM stash is about 1.5 x gross earnings as valued at the moment. Age 35, no children. I am VERY debt averse, so I would get a home within means and little/no debt; saving some PMs and adding to that as much as possible with earnings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziknik Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 ... Been revising for an exam today, so brain is addled. Does that make sense? Yes it does and I understand why you want to buy a house too. I should add to the above, I have a 10% cash deposit too at the moment and I hope this will be enough to secure a mortgage without selling any gold or silver. EDIT: And I should also add: We're planning a family at the moment so we will hopefully be down to one wage this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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