Kurtz Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Agree on most, but if the institutional investors buy up these places to rent them out, doesn't that put upward pressure on those remaining for sale to private individuals (less supply etc)? Could put downward pressure on rents though, unless they create a cartel. Now you're just being cynical John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 LONDON'S FALLING - Let's acknowledge that! - and Kensington's cold as ice Mo.: Rt'mov : London : Hometrack %/ Nt'wide H-oldSA Halif.SA Hal.NSA: HNindex : mom : DelusIdx 2011 J. : : 223,122 : 413,259 : 154,300 - 0.5% / 161,211 = n/a = 164,173 161,470 : £161,341 :- 0.33% :138.3% : F. : : 230,030 : 430,680 : 154,000 - 0.2% / 161,183 = n/a = 162,657 161,680 : £161,432 :+ 0.06% :142.5% : M : : 231,790 : 424,307 : ===================================== mom : + 0.8% : - 1.5% : Est.DI: 143.6% /: -0.02%: = n/a = : -0.92% : +0.13% London’s Worst Performers March 2011 London's BOTTOM 5 -------------------- Avg. Price : Mar 2011 / Feb 2011 ================================== : Monthly Change Ealing----------------------------- £397,393 -- £418,898 : -5.1% Bromley-------------------------- £321,739 -- £339,139 : -5.1% Kensington and Chelsea £1,776,895 £1,870,082 : -5.0% Merton--------------------------- £403,916 -- £424,510 : -4.9% Enfield--------------------------- £315,561 -- £331,418 : -4.8% This this info to your London Estate agent, especially if he is trying to sell you a new property in Ealing Dickens Yard, Ealing Broadway Psst! Want to buy some overvalued London property ?? /see: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/developer/branch/St-George/Dickens-Yard-75079.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 http://www.landreg.gov.uk/assets/library/documents/HPI_Report_Feb_11_x1p5cst.pdf Land Reg MOM -0.8% YOY -1.7% And in particular West Midlands MOM -2.7% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Now you're just being cynical John. People in glass houses colonel Land Reg reading -1.7% YOY for whole of uk.. http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/House-prices-fall-0-8-percent-reuters_molt-1199765916.html?x=0 Remembering the lag with land registry (3 or 4 months?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tallim Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Agree on most, but if the institutional investors buy up these places to rent them out, doesn't that put upward pressure on those remaining for sale to private individuals (less supply etc)? Could put downward pressure on rents though, unless they create a cartel. Interestingly a few hours before people unpicked the stamp duty median part of the proposals this post appeared on another thread I follow about UK house prices where a large investor mentions in passing the Stamp Duty on large deals (I can't link direct to the quote, but it's the 7th one down by 'groak'); http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=205&t=919385&mid=0&i=2980&nmt=How+far+will+house+prices+fall%3F+%5BVolume+3%5D&mid=0 boredofmyoldname said: www.rightmove.co.uk%2Fproperty-for-sale%2Fproperty-33122456.html £51,000 ish each, the planned development was for 49 apartments with a £2.6million cost (Partly funded with public money) and retail prices of £48-120k. If that lot makes it's reserve at auction it will be a very brave man who is prepared to put that much money into a block of highly undesirable town centre flats in a town with low rental prices and a wealth of empty property. Either that or it will be a DSS dumping ground for people on HB. Groak said: Ok. let's say it's 35 x 1 bedders. In that particular sheethole they max at £350pcm. So without any void/rent default that's £147k pa. For £1.8M + SD. These days, without any difficulty whatsoever, I would expect to buy at least 70 1 x beds as individual deals (ie no SD) for £1.8M. That's £294k pa without rent default or void. What would YOU rather return for £1.8M.....£147kpa or £294kpa ? At £1M I'd be interested. It's an interesting thread to follow, the site attracts quite a lot of well to do people so you've got city traders, bankers & lawyers mixed in with business owners. Groak in particular rents out lots of places in and around Glasgow, mainly to Local Housing Allowance recipients. It's likely that blocks of flats like this will be affected by the stamp duty median proposals, maybe not so much 'portfolios' of regular houses. I'm undecided if it affects regular owner occupier housing much as these buyers are looking for much greater returns than local BTLers relying on capital growth and as such will probably pay less than open market owner occupier prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meralti Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Agree on most, but if the institutional investors buy up these places to rent them out, doesn't that put upward pressure on those remaining for sale to private individuals (less supply etc)? Could put downward pressure on rents though, unless they create a cartel. These bulk purchases will be for repossed properties from banks and new builds from developers. The market is now stalled and propped up by low interest rates. These bulk transactions will take place at hefty discounts, perhaps as much as 50p on the pound. This will lower prices but may not be fully reported to the indices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 These bulk purchases will be for repossed properties from bank and new build from developers. The market is now stalled and propped up by low interest rates. These bul transactions will take place at hefty discounts perhaps as much as 50p on the pound. This will lower prices but may not be fully reported to the indices. Meantime, UK developers are working to offload their London projects flat-by-flat at premium prices in Hong Kong and the rest of Asia like this one Dickens Yard, Ealing Broadway Psst! Want to buy some overvalued London property ?? /see: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/developer/branch/St-George/Dickens-Yard-75079.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Do you see a PATTERN here ? (threads from HPC): + "Property Levies To Reduce Income Tax" / Top end...a start + Those Who Benefitted The Most Should Contribute The Most + Why Do Newbuilds Suck? There's a BIG RISK (of tax rises) for anyone buying expensive new property in London now, but no one is talking about it. BTLers are (eventually) going to be a target. Look at this cigarette butt and think: BTL: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazza Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Do you see a PATTERN here ? (threads from HPC): + "Property Levies To Reduce Income Tax" / Top end...a start + Those Who Benefitted The Most Should Contribute The Most + Why Do Newbuilds Suck? There's a BIG RISK (of tax rises) for anyone buying expensive new property in London now, but no one is talking about it. BTLers are (eventually) going to be a target. Look at this cigarette butt and think: BTL: These would piss me off. Having been off the generation where i havent 'benefitted' from rising property prices and having to pay a princely sum for a family home now. I wonder how they will evaulte who has beenfitted from the rise, or in fact, they will just tax everyone living in more expensive houses. Living in the commuter belt I will probably fall into that net. So I will have a double wammy: (i) having to pay an exorbitant price for a family home due to governemnt errors and poor policy and then (ii) having to pay again in more taxes for the privelege of buying an expensive home. Doesnt make sense. If this comes in I will be looking at tax avoidance measures. I have always paid full tax. However this will be the final straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yes. I can understand being p-ssed off. But it is likely, isn't it. Living in the commuter belt I will probably fall into that net. So I will have a double wammy: (i) having to pay an exorbitant price for a family home due to governemnt errors and poor policy and then (ii) having to pay again in more taxes for the privelege of buying an expensive home. Doesnt make sense. If this comes in I will be looking at tax avoidance measures. I have always paid full tax. However this will be the final straw. Homeowners and property investors have enjoyed certain tax benefits. Isnt it likely that such benefits would be rescinded at some stage? And even more taxes added, by a revenue-hungry government? If you wait to buy, then you would see prices fall, making it more affordable to buy, and that would be a positive benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazza Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yes. I can understand being p-ssed off. But it is likely, isn't it. Homeowners and property investors have enjoyed certain tax benefits. Isnt it likely that such benefits would be rescinded at some stage? And even more taxes added, by a revenue-hungry government? If you wait to buy, then you would see prices fall, making it more affordable to buy, and that would be a positive benefit Yes I agree it is likely. Fixed assets and all that. I guess the fairness thing pisses me off. I wouldnt mind so much if I had benefitted from the market. I guess one of the things that gets me the most is that the government keeps the market high to protect itself, its taxes and the banks and then says how good it is for the public..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I have never understood why the council tax for a multi-million pound property in a lovely area is at most only about two or three times that charged for a poxy little flat in a crap area. The old rates system was far fairer. I liked Harrisons land tax idea too, take away the income tax and replace with land tax. Don't know if it could work in reality though, it would probably need a revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yes I agree it is likely. Fixed assets and all that. I guess the fairness thing pisses me off. I wouldnt mind so much if I had benefitted from the market. I guess one of the things that gets me the most is that the government keeps the market high to protect itself, its taxes and the banks and then says how good it is for the public..... Political motivations become transparent, when you become cynical - Don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I have never understood why the council tax for a multi-million pound property in a lovely area is at most only about two or three times that charged for a poxy little flat in a crap area. The old rates system was far fairer. I liked Harrisons land tax idea too, take away the income tax and replace with land tax. Don't know if it could work in reality though, it would probably need a revolution. What if that multi-million pound house has one old lady living in it about 70 and then the poxy terrace house has about 10 people living in it which include a few children going to school. Who is using more of the services being provided by the local council? No doubt about it,any fairer council tax would take account of amount of people in the residence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffian Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 What if that multi-million pound house has one old lady living in it about 70 and then the poxy terrace house has about 10 people living in it which include a few children going to school. Who is using more of the services being provided by the local council? No doubt about it,any fairer council tax would take account of amount of people in the residence. That's true, but tax isn't designed to be fair is it? I mean if we all paid tax equivalent to the services we use then there would be no need for tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 That's true, but tax isn't designed to be fair is it? I mean if we all paid tax equivalent to the services we use then there would be no need for tax. It's fair a to point, otherwise your would have total social break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 What if that multi-million pound house has one old lady living in it about 70 and then the poxy terrace house has about 10 people living in it which include a few children going to school. Who is using more of the services being provided by the local council? No doubt about it,any fairer council tax would take account of amount of people in the residence. You need a bit of both: + Property value, and + Number of people The old POLL TAX aimed for that, but it was terribly unpopular But forcing the old lady to move into a smaller space by raising her tax seems like necessary "tough love" to me. She did little to build up the infrastructure which made her area so attractive to live : Density and other taxes did that/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 You need a bit of both: + Property value, and + Number of people The old POLL TAX aimed for that, but it was terribly unpopular But forcing the old lady to move into a smaller space by raising her tax seems like necessary "tough love" to me. She did little to build up the infrastructure which made her area so attractive to live : Density and other taxes did that/. That was my point, a bit of both. The poll tax was each person regardless of value of property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TestIcicle Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 The poll tax was each person regardless of value of property. Indeed. It was a fundamentally regressive flat-rate tax on individuals only, ignoring the properties altogether. Very unpopular! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Charge I like the idea of old-style rates if implemented fairly. That was apparently based on property valuations... imagine if that had been the case during the noughties boom! Perhaps it can be said that BOTH the Poll Tax and Council Tax have paved the way for mega-HPI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Some banks taking major losses now on repossessions in and around my area. Infact on closer inspection i'm suspecting mortgage fraud to the point where the buyer and the vendor where friends. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28856296.html Last sold in 2005 for £135,000 which was even 10% higher than any peak price of 2007 for the road. A very un-desirable road http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&street=WILTON+ROAD&locality=ERDINGTON&town=BIRMINGHAM&cCode=EW&year=All&house_style=All&house_age=All&search_radius=15&outcode=B23&incode=6UA&eastingToSearch=41100&northingToSearch=29200 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32970347.html Sold today at auction for £112,000, last sold in 2008 for £245,000 and sold in 2007 for £145,000 the mortgage provider was Bradford & Bingley(don't laugh),considering the property was leasehold was god knows how much over the peak price. Now this i read the legal pack from the auction, the house was repossessed within a year and the buyer never paid any of the ground rent. Needs some serious work now and was in no way a refurb job in 2007. A very desirable road. http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&street=PLANTS+BROOK+ROAD&locality=SUTTON+COLDFIELD&town=SUTTON+COLDFIELD&cCode=EW&year=All&house_style=All&house_age=All&search_radius=15&outcode=B76&incode=1HG&eastingToSearch=41370&northingToSearch=29260 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-26361088.html This one sold in 2005 for £185,000, 6 months after being bought for £119,000. Now ive viewed it and no way was it a refurb job in 2005 because it's in a fairly bad condition. £185,000 was at least 10% over the peak price of 2007 for the street and it's leasehold. A fairly desirable road. It's been marketed for over 2 years at various prices and SSTC at various times the last being £110,000 http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&locality=BIRMINGHAM&town=BIRMINGHAM&street=EDWARDS+ROAD&year=All&house_style=All&house_age=All&house_type=All&search_radius=15&northingToSearch=29190&eastingToSearch=41130&cCode=EW&outcode=B24&incode=9HB&order=&start_limit=20&curPage=2 http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-32039453.html Last sold in 2006 for £158,000 http://www.nethouseprices.com/index.php?con=sold_prices_street_detail&street=BOUNDARY+ROAD&locality=BIRMINGHAM&town=BIRMINGHAM&cCode=EW&year=All&house_style=All&house_age=All&search_radius=15&outcode=B23&incode=6GN&eastingToSearch=41010&northingToSearch=29160 Now i know you get stupid buyers willing to buy at stupid prices but the second property especially the intention was evident in the legal pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 What if that multi-million pound house has one old lady living in it about 70 and then the poxy terrace house has about 10 people living in it which include a few children going to school. Who is using more of the services being provided by the local council? No doubt about it,any fairer council tax would take account of amount of people in the residence. Yep, number of occupants should also be taken into account as the same argument could apply in an even worse case, where it's an old lady (about 70) living in the poxy little flat and ten living in the mansion (with obviously more room(s) each, and better neighbours). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Doe Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Bellway on the up too. Spring bounce?? Homebuilder Bellway expects its profits this year to grow by a third after a strengthening spring market gave encouragement for an increase in sales. http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Housebuilder-Bellway-sees-reuters_molt-4270721141.html?x=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Bellway on the up too. Spring bounce?? http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Housebuilder-Bellway-sees-reuters_molt-4270721141.html?x=0 Are the Nationwide numbers out yet? They should make interesting reading - and we may get a hint of the size of the "bounce" this Spring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Bellway on the up too. Spring bounce?? http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Housebuilder-Bellway-sees-reuters_molt-4270721141.html?x=0 http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hDI8Wi804q7G8BioP6kmytI_ZVOg?docId=N0301811301480664573A Rate rises coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil324 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Are the Nationwide numbers out yet? They should make interesting reading - and we may get a hint of the size of the "bounce" this Spring Tentative tomorrow, Halifax been moved already to coincidence with the BOE next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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