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Then again, if there is no order, you could just as easily go forward and read Heraclitus. :)

 

I think there is an important difference between the metaphysical concept of temporal order and the pragmatic experience of temporal order (e.g., summer follows spring, spring follows winter etc.). Even if there is no justification for assuming some absolute temporal order, this does not mean that the therefore arbitrary sequence of events (flux) is chaotic or meaningless. Negation does not imply its opposite!

 

In any case ... back to Silver.

 

Well yes, but the point of the graph was to suggest that time has already been telling us something ... but I guess time will tell ;)

Silver does look relatively weak here and is perhaps signalling that the "flood of easy money liquidity" narrative is limited.

 

I am sticking with my 30% because even though it could dip shortly, all is flux in the short term and who "knows" what it will do. That said, I don't see silver as a gamble, as I have a larger macro [meta] view of where it is going. Heraclitus meet Plato. :)

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Silver does look relatively weak here and is perhaps signalling that the "flood of easy money liquidity" narrative is limited.

That's what I'm thinking.

 

I am sticking with my 30% because even though it could dip shortly, all is flux in the short term and who "knows" what it will do. That said, I don't see silver as a gamble, as I have a larger macro [meta] view of where it is going. Heraclitus meet Plato. :)

Does that mean you envision Silver decoupling from the "industrial" trade at some point in the future?

 

PS: How about Protagoras? :)

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You mean the Gold:Silver ratio? I agree it is a bit early to tell for sure, but in my experience, divergences often indicate internal weakness. This is why I find it surprising that while stocks continue higher, gold is making new highs, silver is struggling to gain ground, and the gold:silver ratio is struggling to break down. But perhaps i am speaking too soon and Silver is about to catch up. We will see :)

Silver is easier for the cartel to manipulate at the moment than gold, that is all that is going on. Watch over the next couple of weeks, before making judgement. The Gold/Silver ratio is just about to break lower IMO.

 

 

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Does that mean you envision Silver decoupling from the "industrial" trade at some point in the future?

That is the joy of silver it is always an industrial metal but at times also a monetary metal. That time is coming again, especially with the chinese now promoting it.

 

When there is a short squeeze on silver the industrial users will push it up as they make sure they have stock, the price really isn't that important.

 

Remember that CFTC position limits could be imposed towards the end of November.

 

 

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That is the joy of silver it is always an industrial metal but at times also a monetary metal. That time is coming again, especially with the chinese now promoting it.

 

When there is a short squeeze on silver the industrial users will push it up as they make sure they have stock, the price really isn't that important.

 

Remember that CFTC position limits could be imposed towards the end of November.

 

The glitter of silver is history i think. When silver was special because it was so silver it was worth something but aluminium is used in many mirrors and stainless steel makes for a more useful shiny cutlery item.

 

Yes it does have unique properties but its value to humans as something to dream of seems majorly devalued to me with the arrival of other materials. The same devaluation must be also true of gold where goldness is not necessarily gold anymore and plastics can match the maleability and workableness of gold. For investors there are many precious metals.

 

Only in a total collapse of economies will gold be the king again and if that happens some bugger will steal all of your gold anyway unless you are the meanest SOB in town.

 

Silver trading almost seems like a scam where coins get minted but you cant sell those same coins back to dealers for anything like what you pay for as far as i know. Perhaps somebody can correct me on that if i am wrong. For example the silver dealer sells you a silver coin and you arrive later with a thing that could be a silver coin. He sees the risk in the trade and marks down accordingly.

 

On the other hand silver was 5 and it is now 17 but property was 30k and it is now 300k.

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The glitter of silver is history i think. When silver was special because it was so silver it was worth something but aluminium is used in many mirrors and stainless steel makes for a more useful shiny cutlery item.

 

Yes it does have unique properties but its value to humans as something to dream of seems majorly devalued to me with the arrival of other materials. The same devaluation must be also true of gold where goldness is not necessarily gold anymore and plastics can match the maleability and workableness of gold. For investors there are many precious metals.

The industrial use of silver has been in an increasing trend lately not decreasing. Although photography used to be the major use for industrial silver and has been in rapid decline, new uses are taking up the slack. Also supply has been decreasing.

 

Demand and Supply in 2008

 

Demand

 

Total global silver fabrication slipped a modest 0.9percent in 2008 to 832.6 Moz. Even though industrial demand dipped slightly by 1.4 percent to 447.2 Moz, the 2008 performance was the second only to 2007, with most of the loss occurring in the 4th quarter of 2008. Jewelry fabrication dropped by 3.2 percent to 158.3 Moz in 2008, the product of weaker off-take in Italy and Thailand. Growth in this sector was most pronounced in India, China and Russia. Silverware demand fell by 2 percent in 2008 to 57.3 Moz, as losses in western markets were partially offset by gains in India, which witnessed a 7 percent rise, as well as Russia, which also enjoyed growth in consumption last year.

 

Supply

 

The net supply of silver from aboveground stocks dropped by a robust 14 percent in 2008 to 151.7 Moz. The decline was mainly due to lower net government sales and a drop in scrap supply. Scrap volumes fell to an 11 year low of 176.6 Moz. De-hedging reduced the overall producer hedge position by 5.6 Moz last year.

 

A further decline in Russian disposals, as well as the absence of any sales from China and India, resulted in a 27 percent fall in government sales in 2008 to 30.9 Moz.

 

demand09.jpg

 

I think investment demand for silver will see a big increase when the 2009 figures get added.

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The glitter of silver is history i think. When silver was special because it was so silver it was worth something but aluminium is used in many mirrors and stainless steel makes for a more useful shiny cutlery item.

 

Yes it does have unique properties but its value to humans as something to dream of seems majorly devalued to me with the arrival of other materials. The same devaluation must be also true of gold where goldness is not necessarily gold anymore and plastics can match the maleability and workableness of gold. For investors there are many precious metals.

 

Only in a total collapse of economies will gold be the king again and if that happens some bugger will steal all of your gold anyway unless you are the meanest SOB in town.

 

Silver trading almost seems like a scam where coins get minted but you cant sell those same coins back to dealers for anything like what you pay for as far as i know. Perhaps somebody can correct me on that if i am wrong. For example the silver dealer sells you a silver coin and you arrive later with a thing that could be a silver coin. He sees the risk in the trade and marks down accordingly.

 

On the other hand silver was 5 and it is now 17 but property was 30k and it is now 300k.

 

If you really want to understand the value of gold buy your wife some plastic jewlery for christmas. I'm sure she will be able to explain why gold is better than plastic in a way that you will understand. Anyone who ever bought their fiancée a plastic enganement ring will also know all about gold's value.

 

On the topic of silver's many and varied uses, has anyone tried x-static clothing yet? I hear it's quite good.

 

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If you really want to understand the value of gold buy your wife some plastic jewlery for christmas. I'm sure she will be able to explain why gold is better than plastic in a way that you will understand. Anyone who ever bought their fiancée a plastic enganement ring will also know all about gold's value.

 

On the topic of silver's many and varied uses, has anyone tried x-static clothing yet? I hear it's quite good.

 

At some point the investors will see there is no value in holding gold and they will sell to buy something useful which could be plastic or whatever is useful to them. Meanwhile other investors are investing in plastic already

 

My point was that the world is different and we do value things differently today than when there was a gold standard.

 

Gold has to be useful to have value. A certain amount goes to jewelry, in dentistry gold is still the most valueable material for a crown in terms of biting ability and durability. Gold is fantastic for electrical contacts and as wires in tiny integrated circuits. Etc. Etc. For sure it is valueable. But it still has to compete with other valueable materials and there seem far more of them today than in former times.

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At some point the investors will see there is no value in holding gold and they will sell to buy something useful which could be plastic or whatever is useful to them. Meanwhile other investors are investing in plastic already

 

My point was that the world is different and we do value things differently today than when there was a gold standard.

 

Gold has to be useful to have value. A certain amount goes to jewelry, in dentistry gold is still the most valueable material for a crown in terms of biting ability and durability. Gold is fantastic for electrical contacts and as wires in tiny integrated circuits. Etc. Etc. For sure it is valueable. But it still has to compete with other valueable materials and there seem far more of them today than in former times.

Useful you say? - well, not to mention its industrial uses,

How about evasion of capital gains tax (in inflation, v. useful!)

Evasion of capital controls -(yes really, there was a time when you could only take £25 out of the country)...

I could go on...

Evasion of means testing for benefits/care etc.

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The cartel still has a good grip on silver, wonder how long it is going to be till they lose it.

 

The bomb carries on tick, tick, ticking.......

 

Bet the chinese are loving this, but at least we have god on our side :P

 

 

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At some point the investors will see there is no value in holding gold and they will sell to buy something useful which could be plastic or whatever is useful to them. Meanwhile other investors are investing in plastic already

From:

 

The older man is telling Benjamin that there is a great future in the plastics industry. It's funny as the man is taking himself far too seriously and as Benjamin's reaction shows, being rather ridiculous.

 

Plastics represents everything that's fake in the world, everything the main character hates and wants to get away from.
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At some point the investors will see there is no value in holding gold and they will sell to buy something useful which could be plastic or whatever is useful to them. Meanwhile other investors are investing in plastic already

 

My point was that the world is different and we do value things differently today than when there was a gold standard.

 

Gold has to be useful to have value. A certain amount goes to jewelry, in dentistry gold is still the most valueable material for a crown in terms of biting ability and durability. Gold is fantastic for electrical contacts and as wires in tiny integrated circuits. Etc. Etc. For sure it is valueable. But it still has to compete with other valueable materials and there seem far more of them today than in former times.

 

but silver is incredibly useful and its use is increasing year on year, out striping mining output.

The superior electrical conductivity of silver is unsurpassed and plastics will never be able to beat that.

 

more many industrial applications there is no substitute to silver.

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The glitter of silver is history i think. When silver was special because it was so silver it was worth something but aluminium is used in many mirrors and stainless steel makes for a more useful shiny cutlery item.

 

Yes it does have unique properties but its value to humans as something to dream of seems majorly devalued to me with the arrival of other materials. The same devaluation must be also true of gold where goldness is not necessarily gold anymore and plastics can match the maleability and workableness of gold. For investors there are many precious metals.

 

In the era of cosmetic dentistry, gold still is the king. nothing will last longer ever. Scientists have tried with white fills etc, but gold is gold.

 

So dont rule out gold yet.

 

P.s. This is not my work, but done by a colleague.

 

 

 

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The glitter of silver is history i think. When silver was special because it was so silver it was worth something but aluminium is used in many mirrors and stainless steel makes for a more useful shiny cutlery item.

 

Yes it does have unique properties but its value to humans as something to dream of seems majorly devalued to me with the arrival of other materials. The same devaluation must be also true of gold where goldness is not necessarily gold anymore and plastics can match the maleability and workableness of gold. For investors there are many precious metals.

 

Only in a total collapse of economies will gold be the king again and if that happens some bugger will steal all of your gold anyway unless you are the meanest SOB in town.

 

Silver trading almost seems like a scam where coins get minted but you cant sell those same coins back to dealers for anything like what you pay for as far as i know. Perhaps somebody can correct me on that if i am wrong. For example the silver dealer sells you a silver coin and you arrive later with a thing that could be a silver coin. He sees the risk in the trade and marks down accordingly.

 

On the other hand silver was 5 and it is now 17 but property was 30k and it is now 300k.

 

 

you must ask yourself (post the US selling off their silver supply), do you believe there are still large concentrations of silver held by Govt.s / Central Banks (i.e in 'fewer hands') or whether the prevalence of silver is now more widespread (i.e. in greater hands).

 

if you conclude the answer is that silver is now held in greater hands (e.g. think India), you may then ponder what element of control over the silver market really exists

 

silver remains a store of wealth because of its scarcity and versatility (the sideline argument about it's relative worth in gold is a distraction here)

 

and please don't forget that silver in the ground is not silver on the table

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The glitter of silver is history i think. When silver was special because it was so silver it was worth something but aluminium is used in many mirrors and stainless steel makes for a more useful shiny cutlery item.

 

Yes it does have unique properties but its value to humans as something to dream of seems majorly devalued to me with the arrival of other materials. The same devaluation must be also true of gold where goldness is not necessarily gold anymore and plastics can match the maleability and workableness of gold. For investors there are many precious metals.

 

Only in a total collapse of economies will gold be the king again and if that happens some bugger will steal all of your gold anyway unless you are the meanest SOB in town.

 

Silver trading almost seems like a scam where coins get minted but you cant sell those same coins back to dealers for anything like what you pay for as far as i know. Perhaps somebody can correct me on that if i am wrong. For example the silver dealer sells you a silver coin and you arrive later with a thing that could be a silver coin. He sees the risk in the trade and marks down accordingly.

 

On the other hand silver was 5 and it is now 17 but property was 30k and it is now 300k.

 

:lol: You know next to nothing! Silver and Gold have hundreds if not thousands of years of history behind them as a store of value. Houses have but a few decades.

Some coins get minted and are worth today many multiple thousands of pounds more depending on their rarity alone. Please do some research before you start spouting rubbish. Uses of silver are many and most of it is used up in industry, the price of recycling it (at todays price) uneconomical. When we all realise that silver is far more precious than as we esteem it to be now, the price will adjust accordingly. For gold, most of mined gold is still around above ground and for that honor is accustomed its worth and value. Gold is like no other. Nor likely to be.

Like it or lump it the pair will not for a long time, lose their 'glitter', in fact, just the opposite. Still you go ahead and ignore it, if you dare. Put your faith in bricks or plastics its all the same to me.

 

'Only in a total collapse of economies will gold be the king again..' - Have you been sleepwalking through the last few years? Alive and kicking? You might be 'dead and buried' rather.

 

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:lol: You know next to nothing! Silver and Gold have hundreds if not thousands of years of history behind them as a store of value. Houses have but a few decades.

Some coins get minted and are worth today many multiple thousands of pounds more depending on their rarity alone. Please do some research before you start spouting rubbish. Uses of silver are many and most of it is used up in industry, the price of recycling it (at todays price) uneconomical. When we all realise that silver is far more precious than as we esteem it to be now, the price will adjust accordingly. For gold, most of mined gold is still around above ground and for that honor is accustomed its worth and value. Gold is like no other. Nor likely to be.

Like it or lump it the pair will not for a long time, lose their 'glitter', in fact, just the opposite. Still you go ahead and ignore it, if you dare. Put your faith in bricks or plastics its all the same to me.

 

'Only in a total collapse of economies will gold be the king again..' - Have you been sleepwalking through the last few years? Alive and kicking? You might be 'dead and buried' rather.

 

I assume you have heard of platinum

 

 

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