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I don't think this is old news, the big story is that JP Morgan & HSBC are both being sued currently and also that Bart Chilton at the CFTC is explaining something needs to be done finally.

If it's old news, it's only old to a very small minority of people, imo. Many of them hang around here, that is all!

As the story gains more credibility and gets more press (and the POS goes up and up) it will dawn eventually on the public at large. That has not happened yet.

 

For me, it is simply obvious that silver has to reach a price at which it is economical to recycle at some point. That price is far higher than it is now. Shorting and manipulation just give us more time to accumulate, and increase the violence of the eventual overshoot.

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James Turk - Silver $30 in Less Than 18 Days

 

With gold and silver strong today, King World News interviewed James Turk out of London. When asked about silver specifically Turk commented, “I like this flag pattern because when you breakout to the upside you reach your target in half the time it takes the flagpole to form. The flagpole formed over 36 trading days, so the next leg up to $30 will be over in less than 18 trading days.”

 

Turk continues:

 

“The other thing Eric is that this time frame is not too far off from the three to four weeks window that I mentioned would take place when silver pierced $21.

 

We have been saying it is different this time because the ongoing accumulators of physical metal are right underneath the market. This aggressive buying is one of the key reasons why prices are poised to explode.

 

What I expect to see is a strong close today, and follow through tomorrow. That scenario requires more short covering tomorrow which is likely to happen anyway going into the weekend.

 

Even though silver is continuing to lead, gold will continue higher as well. Gold will eventually take out the previous high of $1,400. $1,400 is a pit stop on the way to $1,500.”...

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I don't think this is old news, the big story is that JP Morgan & HSBC are both being sued currently and also that Bart Chilton at the CFTC is explaining something needs to be done finally.

 

IMO we will be seeing "price discovery" on silver very soon. JPM have been increasing their shorts to control the market for years, they are not going to be able to operate in the same way, especially as they are being investigated.

 

All I was really getting at, the manipulation story(or wheeze if you are a skeptic :lol: ).

 

Following Chris ct's line though, it's still only on the P.M bull boards you get any sense of acceptance, so in that sense you are quite right it is big; just need the red tops to start printing it ;)

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All I was really getting at, the manipulation story(or wheeze if you are a skeptic :lol: ).

 

Following Chris ct's line though, it's still only on the P.M bull boards you get any sense of acceptance, so in that sense you are quite right it is big; just need the red tops to start printing it ;)

GATA made it into forbes today;

 

Traders Accuse HSBC, JPMorgan Of Silver Manipulation

 

Parmy Olson, 10.28.10, 10:35 AM EDT

 

Lawsuits allege banks manipulated futures trading by amassing 'enormous short positions.'

 

LONDON -- Two traders have accused HSBC and JPMorgan Chase of manipulating the price of gold's smaller cousin, silver, in separate lawsuits filed in a Manhattan federal court Wednesday.

 

The suits allege that the two banking giants amassed "enormous short positions," and follow an investigation by the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) ongoing since 2008.

 

...

 

CFTC's own reports of November 2009 showed HSBC and JPMorgan Chase ( JPM - news - people ) held 43% of the commercial net short position in gold and 68% of the commercial net short position in silver, according to a letter to the Commission from William Murphy, chairman of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee. He adds that in gold the two banks were short 123,331 contracts but long only 523 contracts, and in silver they were short 41,318 contracts and long only 1,426 contracts.

 

He added: "It has been possible to extrapolate that the two banks that hold these large manipulative short positions on the Comex are JPMorgan Chase and HSBC because of their huge positions in the OTC derivatives market, whose regulator, the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, does not provide anonymity when it publishes market data."

 

 

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The ratio is still falling. Will it go back under the medium term trend line, or will it bounce off the bold line? :) It's possibly Bernanke who will call the shots on the short term. However, the HSBC/JPMorgan lawsuit could also become a stronger (silver bullish) influence.

 

goldsilverratioguess281.png

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The ratio is still falling. Will it go back under the medium term trend line, or will it bounce off the bold line? :) It's possibly Bernanke who will call the shots on the short term. However, the HSBC/JPMorgan lawsuit could also become a stronger (silver bullish) influence.

The HSBC/JPM cases have got to mean that they will need to cover their shorts sooner IMO. They are not going to be able to use the same obvious techniques they have been using to take the market down while all eyes are focused on them.

 

JPM & HSBC the two largest shorts in silver.

 

20100918-p68prjg2n8m8hxsia7rp4brugm.jpg

 

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Are you sure its made from silver, the replica coin?

 

Crowns tend to be overpriced. I have been buying 50% half crowns for a bargain price recently from some guy I know of. I will be back to buying pre 1947 again on ebay soon and pre 1920 if the price is right.

 

Received today and my gamble paid off - it weighs, looks and sounds like pure silver.

 

Is buying 50% silver coins worth it? I read elsewhere about US silver half-dollars from 1965-1968. They are only 40% silver so if you were to sell them for smelting they would cost so much to process it makes them worth rather less than the value of the silver within them. Since reading that I've stuck to sterling silver UK coins, 90% US coins and occasional francs and guilders 80%+

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Received today and my gamble paid off - it weighs, looks and sounds like pure silver.

 

Is buying 50% silver coins worth it? I read elsewhere about US silver half-dollars from 1965-1968. They are only 40% silver so if you were to sell them for smelting they would cost so much to process it makes them worth rather less than the value of the silver within them. Since reading that I've stuck to sterling silver UK coins, 90% US coins and occasional francs and guilders 80%+

 

 

Yes, it is worth it. As a half crown between 1920 and 1946, it is 7.05 grams of silver, it needs no certificate of authenticity as it is one. I bought them as silver, not for smelting, and I'm sure there will be many people who will buy them from me for the same purpose.

 

I have bought over 2000 of them at £360 a kg for the silver content whilst the spot price is £495 kg. I got my last lot today. The guy I got them from, his granny had a shop in the 1950s, and she seperated the silver half crowns from the CuNi ones and hoarded them. (much like people will seperate the 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, from the steel copies). She pased them on to her son and then the grandson who sold them cheap IMO.

 

Intrestingly, in 1921 when some of them were in circulation, a 50 hour weeks wages would have been 13 of them. I paid £32.50 for 13. I wouldnt work a week for £32.50! In 1946 for a 48 hour week you would get paid 32 of them, I paid £80. At that point it was decided that silver was too valuable and it was removed from the coinage.

 

http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~alan/family/N-Money.html

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I’ve noticed a change in sentiment on ebay. Commemorative coins such as the one in the link used to sell for about £12 and now they are selling for over £20. They seem to be going for the same price as a bullion coin now, where before they went at scrap value, which is daft as they are nicely made proof coins with some history. I know silver has gone up a bit but not that much.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-OUNCE-SILVER-PROOF...utorefresh=true

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Still ignoring this then DrBubb? I guess you have been saying for years that Ted Butler & Bill Murphy were full of it! Best not to say anything as it will probably just go away again.

 

Could this be it?

 

By David Bond, Publisher | October 29, 2010 | Silverminers.com

 

Wallace, Idaho - Two guys on our Christmas card list this year will be Ted Butler and Bill Murphy. Butler has been chasing the silver manipulation story since 1990; Murphy's Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) has been chasing the gold side of the manipulation story for just about as long.

 

It only took two decades, guys, but finally a regulator returned a phone call. Last week, CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton described "repeated" and "fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control" silver prices, according to the Wall Street Journal.

 

"I believe that there have been repeated attempts to influence prices in the silver markets," Chilton, a Bush appointee reappointed by Obama, said. Chilton's remarks may be read in full here.

 

A day later, two traders, in separate lawsuits, alleged that HSBC and J.P. Morgan-Chase were the culprits. According to Forbes, quoting Murphy, who was citing CFTC reports, the two banksters together controlled 43 percent of the net short commercial position in gold and a staggering 68 percent of the short interest in silver last November. It's difficult not to infer a conspiracy here.

 

One of the traders filing suit alleges that the banksters colluded on the silver futures market and let each other know about large trades, placing "spoof" trading orders in order to suppress the price.

 

At this point these are allegations, but they should be taken seriously, considering their sources. Murphy and Butler were ridiculed for two decades for figuring out what, finally, regulators are waking up to: Something is rotten in Denmark...

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An interesting article about silver which includes:

 

 

....the US Mint is expected to release a new five-ounce silver bullion coin this year, the first ever. The coin will be three inches in diameter and have a composition of .999 fine silver.

 

I've read the five-ounce bullion coins will be near-exact replicas of the America the Beautiful quarters. There will reportedly be five different designs, and the mint plans to produce 100,000 of each. I can't wait to see them.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/232995-mor...llish-on-silver

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They sound nice, I'll keep my eye out for these.

 

An interesting article about silver which includes:

 

 

....the US Mint is expected to release a new five-ounce silver bullion coin this year, the first ever. The coin will be three inches in diameter and have a composition of .999 fine silver.

 

I've read the five-ounce bullion coins will be near-exact replicas of the America the Beautiful quarters. There will reportedly be five different designs, and the mint plans to produce 100,000 of each. I can't wait to see them.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/232995-mor...llish-on-silver

 

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America-the-Beautiful-Silver-Bullion-Coins-510x296.jpg

 

The 500,000 mintage will be spread equally between the Hot Springs National Park Silver Coin, Yellowstone National Park Silver Coin, Yosemite National Park Silver Coin, and the Mount Hood National Forest Silver Coin. The respective representing states are Arkansas, Wyoming, California, Arizona and Oregon.

 

http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Soon-U...-28492-3-1.html

 

ARIZONA, USA (Commodity Online): The U.S. Mint will release its first ever five-ounce .999 fine silver bullion coins later this year.The coins will bear the same designs as the new legal-tender quarters of the America the Beautiful Quarters Program. The first quarter in the program, honoring Hot Springs National Park in Arkansas, was released into the banking system April 19, 2010. Four more quarters will be released this year, with five quarters being released annually through 2021, concluding with the final quarter in 2022. The new quarters will commemorate 56 national parks and sites.
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I’ve noticed a change in sentiment on ebay. Commemorative coins such as the one in the link used to sell for about £12 and now they are selling for over £20. They seem to be going for the same price as a bullion coin now, where before they went at scrap value, which is daft as they are nicely made proof coins with some history. I know silver has gone up a bit but not that much.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-OUNCE-SILVER-PROOF...utorefresh=true

 

I've noticed the same thing. Competition is getting a bit more fierce and bargains are becoming few and far between. Interestingly I've been checking some of the other European ebay sites for old silver coins and it looks like they are paying even higher premiums than UK bidders. Especially on ebay.fr. British/Indian silver rupees are getting pretty high prices on ebay India. I was picking these up for around £3 for ages up until a couple of months ago. Lovely coins too. Still getting some good results on 50's, 60's and 70's silver though. Got a bucket load of 1966 500 Lire coins now all purchased at a fair amount below bullion value.

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Silver's had enough and is leaving that chart now.

 

I bl00dy hate this 'correction'.

 

Where's my cheap silver?

 

Correction my @r$e.

 

Call me Silverfinger.

 

silver.gif

I'm not really wanting/expecting a silver correction, other than as a buying opportunity, but may I remind you similar feelings were rampant about 2 years ago and silver corrected violently from 21 to 8. I don't see that on the cards but neither did I then...

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I'm not really wanting/expecting a silver correction, other than as a buying opportunity, but may I remind you similar feelings were rampant about 2 years ago and silver corrected violently from 21 to 8. I don't see that on the cards but neither did I then...

Yup, if markets remain volatile and uncertain, this is sure to be reflected to both the upside and downside in silver. Full of excitement, but a cruel mistress at times. I'd rather be married to gold.

 

So what do you think will be a good buying op this time? :)

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I'm not really wanting/expecting a silver correction, other than as a buying opportunity, but may I remind you similar feelings were rampant about 2 years ago and silver corrected violently from 21 to 8. I don't see that on the cards but neither did I then...

2008 was a once/twice/thrice in a lifetime financial panic; I don't think we'll see that again, and if we do I doubt that the PMs will be affected to the same extent.

 

There seems to be significant physical demand at or right below the current market prices, that's going to limit the downside.

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2008 was a once/twice/thrice in a lifetime financial panic; I don't think we'll see that again, and if we do I doubt that the PMs will be affected to the same extent.

 

There seems to be significant physical demand at or right below the current market prices, that's going to limit the downside.

I would agree with you that people are waiting to pick up PMs at cheaper prices if they are lucky and I hope silver goes to 200/oz but I think we will see (are overdue actually) a few more lifetime panics. How it all pans out is anyones guess, especially considering silvers 'volatility' I am just mindful of excessive sarcasm/hubris along the way.

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Yup, if markets remain volatile and uncertain, this is sure to be reflected to both the upside and downside in silver. Full of excitement, but a cruel mistress at times. I'd rather be married to gold.

 

So what do you think will be a good buying op this time? :)

Well, not the dollar...at least not for me. Life is easier choosing between gold and silver. Right now I'd say silver, but gold for the long(er) term. I might swap my silver for gold in the future but you know the thing about mistresses...they keep seducing you back for more. :lol:

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I'm not really wanting/expecting a silver correction, other than as a buying opportunity, but may I remind you similar feelings were rampant about 2 years ago and silver corrected violently from 21 to 8. I don't see that on the cards but neither did I then...

The drop from $21 to $8 in '08 was a once only gift those who were in the know bought loads then. It was caused by JP Morgan taking over Bear Sterns and their market manipulations. Now we have JPM under investigation so they won't be able to pull the same sort of stunt, we are more likely to see the having to start covering their shorts in a rising market forcing $30 over the next few weeks.

 

I don't think we will ever see silver below $20 again. It feels good to be a silver bull at times like this :D

 

 

 

 

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The drop from $21 to $8 in '08 was a once only gift those who were in the know bought loads then. It was caused by JP Morgan taking over Bear Sterns and their market manipulations. Now we have JPM under investigation so they won't be able to pull the same sort of stunt, we are more likely to see the having to start covering their shorts in a rising market forcing $30 over the next few weeks.

 

I don't think we will ever see silver below $20 again. It feels good to be a silver bull at times like this :D

Maybe it was a once only gift, as was platinum, palladium, etc etc. All the charts look identical. Gold fell the least because it had risen the least. If we see a similar bout of deleveraging I'm sure the sell off will be similar, if not as severe, with gold selling off the least and maybe physical metals not selling off at all. Pixel, I agree it is good to be a silver/gold bull, it is always to be cautious though, too. Wed/thurs/fri we'll all be glued to the charts to see how QE goes and the ramifications for the metals.

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Maybe it was a once only gift, as was platinum, palladium, etc etc. All the charts look identical. Gold fell the least because it had risen the least. If we see a similar bout of deleveraging I'm sure the sell off will be similar, if not as severe, with gold selling off the least and maybe physical metals not selling off at all. Pixel, I agree it is good to be a silver/gold bull, it is always to be cautious though, too. Wed/thurs/fri we'll all be glued to the charts to see how QE goes and the ramifications for the metals.

 

I agree it could go either way really. I kind of think the stock market will react well to more QE as it has in the past and am unsure how much has been already priced in as this graph shows quite clearly.

 

10-04-10-SP500_Quantitative_Easing-3.gif

 

Time to pump up the jam....

 

 

 

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