SILVER

[nicejim]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. 3 kilos though! You must have been doing this a long time, or are you going out on raids? The ratio of old coins will fall as new ones are minted but also those who are allowed to melt them down for scrap will do so.

 

1997 2p is also copper.

Are you sure? I've only got 3 but they all make a very different noise to a 1988 coin when tapped and allowed to reverberate. They sound much more like a 2000 coin.

[electroweak]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. 3 kilos though! You must have been doing this a long time, or are you going out on raids? The ratio of old coins will fall as new ones are minted but also those who are allowed to melt them down for scrap will do so.

Yes, about two years, I guess!! I think it was this story which inspired me about an indian chap who was banged up for melting down the old 1 rupee steel coins to make razor blades for 35x face value!

Plus all the guys and gals at work know I'm an eccentric nutter, so some of them save pre-92 coins for me! ( we don't work handling cash, far from it!)

 

EDIT: I think i'm going a bit mad- I woke up this morning intending to buy a 1 oz gold maple, but ended up buying a silver kilo, plus twenty Silver eagles! It just seemed to me that it was a huge bargain!! - am I mad!?

 

 

Sharp practice of melting coins

Subir Bhaumik, BBC

Millions of Indian coins are being smuggled into neighbouring Bangladesh and turned into razor blades. And that's creating an acute shortage of coins in many parts of India, officials say.

 

Police in Calcutta say that the recent arrest of a grocer highlights the extent of the problem. They seized what they said was a huge coin-melting unit which he was operating in a run-down shack. The grocer confessed to melting down tens of thousands of Indian coins into razor blades which were then smuggled into Bangladesh, police said.

 

"Our one rupee coin is in fact worth 35 rupees, because we make five to seven blades out of them," the grocer allegedly told the police. "Bangladeshi smugglers take delivery of the blades at regular intervals."

 

Police say that initially the smugglers took coins into Bangladesh and then melted them down, but as the scale of the operation has increased, more and more criminals in India are melting them down first, and then selling them as razor blades. ..

(26 Jul 2007)

[ziknik]

...

Are you sure? I've only got 3 but they all make a very different noise to a 1988 coin when tapped and allowed to reverberate. They sound much more like a 2000 coin.

 

Sorry, it is some of the 1998 2pence coins according to Wikkipedia. I’m not with my collection right now so I can’t check for certain.

 

Copper is not magnetic. Whereas the copper coated steel coins are magnetic. It’s very quick and easy to sort through a bag of coins using a magnet.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_pence_(Br...h_decimal_coin)

The coin was initially minted from bronze, but since 1992 it has been minted in copper-plated steel except for a few months in 1998 when bronze was used again. As copper-plated steel is less dense than bronze, post-1992 coins have been slightly thicker. The coin weighs 7.12 grams and has a diameter of 25.9 millimetres.

 

 

[nicejim]

Darn, I'll have to look through my bag again. I'll get a magnet this time though.

[id5]

Sorry, it is some of the 1998 2pence coins according to Wikkipedia. I’m not with my collection right now so I can’t check for certain.

...

It is the 1998 and I read somewhere that the production run of copper coins accounted for about 55% of the mintage fof 2p coins during hat year.

[azazel]

Need to tarnish some silver? Hard boil an egg, and put the item in the egg white whilst hot. You can reheat in the microwave and repeat.

 

I got a silver crown on ebay that was polished, but in very nice condition for the price. I tarnished it with the egg and it looks how it should.

 

Compleatly trivial, like all my posts but I thought Id share it all the same

 

 

 

Also, some interesting images of a Chineese counterfeit silver coin operation.

 

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Ch...oin-Minting.htm

[ziknik]

Me too! I have around £2 so far

 

1997 2p is also copper.

 

In respose to a PM I got

 

It’s not worth it to be honest with you. 1000 2pence coins have a face value of £20 and an intrinsic value of £20.61 (today’s prices). This is a loss making position if I include the cost of the melt.

 

I tend to take the coppers out of my pocket and keep them in a jar anyway…. so all I am doing is putting some coins in a separate jar.

 

The strategy will only work for me if we get hyperinflation. The copper 1pence and 2pence should retain 100% of their purchasing power. In fact, the coins should gain in purchasing power in this scenario.

 

Ignoring hyperinflation, I don’t foresee a scenario when I can sell the coins for profit so I have no exit strategy. I’ll probably end up leaving the whole lot to my grandchildren. These coins could be worth a fortune to them in 100 years time.

 

When I was a child, my neighbour showed me a box of 3pences he’d been collecting ever since coming to the UK between the world wars. After he died, his children pilfered his belongings and put his house on the market. My parent’s bought the house as a buy2let. I went into the house and found the box of coins was still there in the cellar. BUT, I knew the coins were not accepted as money so I left them. Tenants came and went; nobody touched the box of coins. Later, my parent’s sold the house. The box of coins was still in there.

 

Assuming this box was 50% pre 1947 and 50% pre 1920. The box of coins is worth around £30 grand right now. I’m soooo kicking myself for not taking the coins. The coins could still be in the house right now.

 

[nicejim]

I'm just going for a rummage in my cellar

[nicejim]

Silver holding up better than gold at the moment. g:s ratio is 64.25!

[romans holiday]

Silver holding up better than gold at the moment. g:s ratio is 64.25!

Say we get the ratio down to 50 odd on the risk/commodity trade. Makes a lot of sense to sell silver for gold around that level in case we get another period of deleveraging. .... then buy silver again when the ratio is 90.

 

I am not buying into the story of 1:1 silver/gold..... not for now anyway.

[id5]

Need to tarnish some silver?

...

 

Also, some interesting images of a Chineese counterfeit silver coin operation.

...

Bleach also has an effect on silver but not as strong as egg, it turns it more a light grey, the commercial product Patinol will turn it completely black. If you want to clean silver use citric acid, slow but gets there in the end, or best of all any of the commercial products named Safety Pickle.

[HPCsoYESTERDAY]

Say we get the ratio down to 50 odd on the risk/commodity trade. Makes a lot of sense to sell silver for gold around that level in case we get another period of deleveraging. .... then buy silver again when the ratio is 90.

 

I am not buying into the story of 1:1 silver/gold..... not for now anyway.

 

 

 

who said anything about 1:1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

16:1 here we come

[ziknik]

who said anything about 1:1

...

16:1 here we come

 

1:16 here we come

 

I believe this to be a more imporant chart. It shows the amount of above ground gold and silver in ounces since 1900.

 

 

Use the chart to extrapolate the amount of above ground silver in 2020 and then tell me what you believe is going to happen to the price of silver.

 

image from

 

http://www.bullionmark.com/2008/12/how-muc...r-is-there.html

 

 

A roll of photographic film contains about 1/100 of an ounce of silver. Film is not recycled after use. The low price of silver makes recycling uneconomic, so much of the silver used in industry is lost forever. From the same web page I took the chart -

 

'The first chart shows that 1 billion ounces of gold existed in 1900 versus 5 billion ounces today in 2008. This makes sense. Gold is valuable, therefore hoarded and its industrial uses are largely reclaimed through recycling. Roughly new mine supply adds to the ounces in existence.

However 12 billion ounces of silver existed in 1900 but only 1 billion remain in 2008. Yes thats right less than 1 billion ounces and there is 5 times more gold available than silver! Why is this so? Well silver has far more industrial uses than gold. It is critical to electronics, whitegoods, medical technology, solar technology, industrial equipment, water purification, photography, nano technology, military weapons etc etc. Silver is critical in our daily lives. However the low price of silver makes recycling uneconomic, so silver used is silver consumed and lost forever. Secondly, silver is mined as a bi product of other metals such as zinc, lead, copper and gold. Silver is scarce in the earth and very expensive to mine. World silver mine supply could decline substantially in the next 2 years as economic conditions worsen around the globe. Silver mines themselves are going bust (ie Macmin silver in Australia) but also the base metal miners who mine some silver as a bi product have now become uneconomic and closing at an accelerated pace. Peak silver is with us!'

 

Some facts about silver -

 

 

'# Silver has superior bactericidal qualities. Small concentrations of silver or silver salts kill bacteria by chemically affecting the cell membranes, causing them to break down. Bacteria do not develop resistance to silver, as they do to many antibiotics.

 

# Silver is the best conductor of heat of all elements. Its uses in solar panels and automobile rear window defoggers take advantage of this quality.

 

# Silver is the best conductor of electricity of all elements. In fact, silver defines conductivity - all other metals are compared against it. On a scale of 0 to 100, silver ranks 100, with copper at 97 and gold at 76. Silver is commonly used in electrical circuits and contacts. Silver is also utilized in batteries where dependability is mandatory and weight restrictions apply, such as those for portable surgical tools, hearing aids, pacemakers and space travel.

 

# Silver has the highest degree of optical reflectivity of all elements. A silver mirror can reflect about 95% of the visible light spectrum. (most mirrors are silver). Besides vanity uses, mirrors are important components in telescopes, microscopes and solar panels.

 

# Silver is more ductile than any element except gold. One ounce of silver can be drawn into 8,000 feet of thin wire.

 

# Silver is more malleability than any element except gold. One grain of silver can be made into a sheet one hundred and fifty times thinner than a piece of paper.'

 

From http://www.silverusersassociation.org/silver/facts.shtml

 

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

>$15/oz.t

 

f*** yeah!

[Pixel8r]

A roll of photographic film contains about 1/100 of an ounce of silver. Film is not recycled after use. The low price of silver makes recycling uneconomic, so much of the silver used in industry is lost forever. From the same web page I took the chart -

Just to correct this for the second time.

 

The silver in a roll of film is recycled, it is removed by the processing chemicals which the labs have picked up for recycling. I know this is true as I have worked in the photographic industry for 20 years. Also these days less and less silver is used in film, as photography is rapidly moving to the digital formats.

 

I still think silver is running out though, just not because it is being used up in photographic film

 

To back up what I mentioned above you might want to have a look at this link;

 

"The largest component of recycled silver comes from spent photographic film, paper, and solutions."

 

Silver Recycling in the United States in 2000

 

 

 

[notanewmember]

Silveris a chemical elementof symbol Ag — from the Latin Argentum — and atomic number47.

 

This metal is the third non-renewable resource set to disappear thanks to intensive exploitation by mankind.

 

Remaining workable deposits are estimated at between 270,000 and 383,000 tonnes.

 

June 2008: at current rates of production, 20,500 tonnes per year, deposits will last 13 years.

 

Extractable deposits of this metal will therefore disappear for good in 2021.

 

Note that the figures cited in our study are contested by a source claiming that silver reserves will last another 15 to 20 years and that this element will therefore be exhausted between 2023 and 2028. Another source refers to reserves of 29 years, which would see us through to 2037.

 

Links: http://news.silverseek.com/and http://environment.newscientist.com

 

Silver is used in jewellery, mintage, silver-ware and photography (59%). It is also used in industry (in electrical and electronic applications and in brazing, welding and other alloys: 41%)

However problems arising from its disappearance will start to make themselves felt well before any of these fateful dates. Other deposits are less concentrated, or smaller, or extraction of the metal from the ore is harder.

This precious metal was created when a star exploded and the Sun and the Earth were formed from the debris, over five billion years ago.

 

You cannot produce it artificially and there is no substitute. The Moon and the asteroids do not contain the metal in an extractable form. And just imagine the energy it would take to bring some back from Mars or Venus!

 

There will still be recycling but demand, which will keep growing exponentially with the development of the emerging economies, will far outstrip supply.

 

Poland has 20% of current known reserves, Mexico 14% and Peru 13%.

 

To learn more about silver, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver

 

http://terresacree.org/argentanglais.htm

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

This metal is the third non-renewable resource set to disappear thanks to intensive exploitation by mankind.

 

what were the first two?

[wren]

Just to correct this for the second time.

 

The silver in a roll of film is recycled, it is removed by the processing chemicals which the labs have picked up for recycling. I know this is true as I have worked in the photographic industry for 20 years. Also these days less and less silver is used in film, as photography is rapidly moving to the digital formats.

 

I still think silver is running out though, just not because it is being used up in photographic film

Good that you point this out.

 

For investors the fact that it is mostly recycled is good news. It means that the reduced demand from photography owing to the increasing popularity of digital cameras is less than would otherwise be.

 

I wonder how much silver goes into digital cameras?

 

Somebody on this site said that 70% of silver used in traditional photography is recycled. Maybe it was you?

 

[Compounded]

what were the first two?

 

I wondered that too a google came up with this list

 

http://terresacree.org/feranglais.htm

 

[notanewmember]

what were the first two?

 

terbium and hafnium - not the easiest metals to purchase.

 

http://terresacree.org/argentanglais.htm - follow the link - each element is explained.

[wren]

what were the first two?

Terbium and hafnium it seems. From another thread:

http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....ic=6744&hl=

 

which provides this link:

http://terresacree.org/argentanglais.htm

 

[notanewmember]

'Terre Sacrée' is a non-profit making french association which defends the lives and causes affected by our technological civilization. It informs about the state of health of the planet on a daily basis.

[wren]

Snap, snap, snap.

 

Hope you got enough links.

[Pixel8r]

Good that you point this out.

 

For investors the fact that it is mostly recycled is good news. It means that the reduced demand from photography owing to the increasing popularity of digital cameras is less than would otherwise be.

 

I wonder how much silver goes into digital cameras?

 

Somebody on this site said that 70% of silver used in traditional photography is recycled. Maybe it was you?

I am unsure as to the exact amount of silver recycled in photography, but I know it is a high percentage. 70% seems about right.

 

Total recycling of silver stood at 32% in the year 2000, from the link I posted above;

 

In 2000, the global silver supply deficit (the difference between mine and scrap supply and silver demand) was more than 3,000 metric tons. U.S. silver demand for photographic applications alone was nearly equal to annual U.S. silver production. Until 1968, the U.S. silver deficit was filled by withdrawals from the U.S. Treasury reserves. In 2000, the deficit was filled by destocking, imports, and recycling. Photographic wastes, spent catalysts, and electronic scrap are the major sources of materials for silver recycling. Nearly 1,800 metric tons of silver contained in these materials were available for recycling in 2000. Other recyclable silver-bearing materials include dental alloys, jewelry, and silverware. In 2000, an estimated 1,700 tons of silver were recovered from secondary sources in the United States. The U.S. recycling efficiency for old scrap was calculated to have been 97 percent in 2000; the recycling rate was estimated to be 32 percent.

 

 

[Crashman begins]

They are lucky in the US where precious metal coins can be found in circulation. The bank staff appear to be oblivious when they can themselves make some easy money with zero risk. They must have thought he was an old fool collecting old coins for their dates.

 

Has there ever been any UK coins that have been gold / silver in the UK ?