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Freespeech, cdswamp, and commercialisation

cdswamp  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it time to welcome back cdswamp?

    • Yes - He?s been suspended for too long
      13
    • Yes ? He?s been suspended for about the right length of time
      12
    • No ? He should stay suspended for longer
      8
    • No ? Never
      19
  2. 2. If longer, How much longer

    • N/A
      43
    • 1 Week
      1
    • 1 Month
      6
    • 3 Months
      2


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I would like to ask those who are concerned that cdswaps 'free speech' is being denied, or that that GEI is limiting 'free speech' to please define more specifically 'free speech' to do 'what'?

 

Free speech to abuse others should be limited to say the least. I didn’t include the option in the poll (perhaps I should have done). I don’t see this as a free speech issue.

 

Would anyone have voted for ‘Yes – The suspension was not deserved?’

 

My point is that the punishment is too severe. 24/48/72 hours to calm down a bit and respond properly. Followed by a longer suspension if the poster returns and continues to be abusive.

 

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Thanks.

 

I expected the thread titles to be edited when I started this thread. I kept words to a minimum because I wasn’t sure how the forum would react and didn’t want to write anything that would antagonise the situation.

 

 

 

We wouldn’t have had the chance to settle our situation if one or both of us had been suspended for months.

 

It’s worth remembering that cdswamp made many well mannered posts in that thread before losing his temper.

 

he did acknowledge this to me privately btw, but he lost his temper because he was singled out, which to be fair he was.

I do also (as I'm sure he would) realise he was/is a controversial poster, he is not an angel & I am not his spokesperson. :rolleyes:

 

I always seem to end up in these sorts of roles even though I have no more right than anyone else on here to comment.

 

Would posters please do me a favour on this thread, tell me exactly what you dislike about me, not the positives (seriously), just the negatives please.

I would like to see what your opinions are of me, be totally honest please, don't pull punches as I am a total realist. :P

 

Who just doesn't like me outright & they just don't know why ? Mrs GOM says I often have this effect. :lol:

 

 

 

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Maybe some of my earlier posts on this thread were a bit OTT (I was angry :angry: ), but I couldn't edit them after quite a short period - a longer editing time would give any user on here time (after a period of reflection or after the red mist had dispersed) to retract what they had said. I don't know if this would help - it's not going to stop the damage done particularly if what is originally posted is quoted/posted by another user before it is changed. At least it gives the user more time and if after the editing period expires and no change to remove offensive/abusive language has been made then it can be deemed that the original poster stands by what he has said.

 

Too late mate, I reported your angry post. I expect you are going to get banned for 2 months :P;) [Joking, honestly]

 

Imagine a situation where you were suspended for several months. You wouldn’t have the chance to retract anything.

 

Would you have learned anything from DrBubb if he was banned from HPC before you arrived?

 

Obviously, DrBubb doesn’t make abusive posts and hasn’t been banned from HPC, but others have. Off the top of my head, Consa, Magpie, mSparks have all been banned from HPC for posting on GHPC.

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And indeed is wren ACTUALLY a wren? :)

No, but I'm legally entitled to use the title Dr. as I have a Ph.D. (not that I ever use the title).

 

But thanks to DrBubb for the explanation which is quite an interesting one. I decided to use the name of an animal and after a moment's reflection decided on "wren".

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...

Would posters please do me a favour on this thread, tell me exactly what you dislike about me, not the positives (seriously), just the negatives please.

...

 

:rolleyes: What are you hoping to achieve?

 

EDIT: I have nothing negative to say.

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'Free speech' is a vague phrase that, on its own, doesn't really say anything. Although it is something most people can seem to agree with in principle. Its just not a very useful statement to make, its like saying 'I support the troops' or 'I support the people in Chicago'

 

The important part missing that would make the phrase into a useful sentence is free speech' 'to do or say what?'

 

I think we can all agree that the following are great examples of free speech that should be encouraged.

 

  • 'free speech' to express you ideas and opinions
  • free speech' to inquire and ask questions
  • 'free speech' to debate your opinion and the opinions of others
  • 'free speech' to question authority

 

I hope we can agree that the following are examples of situations where free speech should be limited.

 

  • 'free speech' to disrupt in an event or discussion in a manner that prevents the free speech of others
  • 'Free speech' to 'shout fire in a cinema' when you know that there is no fire
  • 'free speech' to knowingly spread false information about a company to gain financial advantage
  • Free speech' to call knowingly make false accusations about people being pedophiles or nazi war criminals
  • 'Free speech' to promote bigotry, racism and anti semitic messages etc...
  • 'free speech' to be abusive towards other people

 

I don't doubt for a minuet that all proponents of 'free speech' in this thread are good honest people who genuinely feel that some travesty is being committed, but 'Free speech' on its own is a vague and meaningless statement, at best its argument by slogan at worst it becomes apologist statement for all sorts of socially and morally unacceptable behavior. I fully support free speech of anyone to do or say things In the first list above, I would like to see limits applied to free speech in situations shown in the second list. Along with the right to free speech go an important responsibilities not to use that right to free speech to Denny and curtail other the rights of others.

 

I would like to ask those who are concerned that cdswaps 'free speech' is being denied, or that that GEI is limiting 'free speech' to please define more specifically 'free speech' to do 'what'?

 

good post enrieb. :)

 

but a lot of those definitions are open to definition......we can't have 'black'n'white' can we ?

We also don't want to become Stepford Posters.

 

I have never sworn at anyone individually in all the years on any site, yet I swear a lot in real life in a joking sense. I would however like the opportunity to swear if needed, it's my right surely BUT in the right context ??

 

So, who decides the context or level of swearword then ?

 

Very Difficult isn't it.

 

I get your main points though & they were well made.

 

** fwiw, I am not trying to form alliances or firends for political gain. I don't really care if people agree or disagree, like or dislike me tbh, not in virtual worlds anyway. In a real world, well I suppose I would be lying if I said I don't like to be liked at all (if that makes sense), I supose we all need to be liked by someone, but I wouldn't sacrifice my beliefs for gain of any sort. I like, no, I actually love to hear opposing thoughts, it opens my mind and

 

Here's an example. Ker's charts ;) There are a few posters (inc me) who have had a pop at him & he has done the same back, albeit he was more professional about it.

Now we have clashed a bit & he doesn't rate me probably because I don't have any sort of background in Technical Analysis, BUT I do have this badge. post-206-1231094252_thumb.png ;)

 

Now if I am wrong & gold crashes, then I WILL apologise to Ker on this very site, will he do the same I wonder if gold shoots up in value $&£ & stays up (is that technical enough I wonder :D )?

 

also, do you all like my badge. If we ever have a meet, I will get one made up specially.

Ker, what do you think ? any comments on the matter ?

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I feel that part of the reason that the moderators changed the title, is that the thread is becoming more of a discussion about what sort of behavior is acceptable on GEI. From the results it looks like at least 70 percent feel that the behaviour shown by cdswap was unacceptable and deserved a ban, although over half also think that he ban should now be lifted.

 

If cdswap were prepared to change the way he interacts with other posters then I would fully support him being allowed to post on GEI agian.

 

Though in his time here the ability to self reflect on his own posing style seemed limited, it was at first hinted that the way he interacted with other posters was 'controversial' and he was politly asked to rethink his posting style many times before eventually other posters began to lose patience.

 

I don't think that cdswap is a bad person or even a troll, but his posting style led him to be percived as a troll. He probably just has a really good sense of humour and many of his insults may have been meant as jokes, but it just doesn't come across that way on an internet forum. Even when reading the work of a skilled writer, indiviudals can take wildly different meaning from a text, we are limited in the way we can comunicate in this evironment so care has to be taken.

 

Internet forums are a weird kind of debating environment, imagine holding a meeting in a room where everyone had a microphone and yet no one was in charge of the speaking order and to complicate things further everyone could only communicate in a monotone fixed manner without the clear intonation, tone, humor that we take for granted in everyday speech. There would no other mechanism for expressing the 'intention' of the information communicated, leaving all expression to be interpreted by the listener and their current frame of mind or feelings towards the person communicating . Worse still, we could only communicate in fixed packets of dialog, without the opportunity to self correct and be corrected real time, giving us the chance to modify our language and really get across to others what we intend to say.

 

IF cdswap is willing to change his posting style or at least reconsider is in the light of the limitations we face, then I would be the first to support his ban being lifted. If he is unwilling to change or think about his posting style then he should remain banned.

 

I think that the thread is becoming much more than an issue about one individual poster, its about the kind of behaviour that we accept on GEI and how it should be dealt with. I would also support a 3 strikes and your out policy, with fast tracking for serious cases.

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:rolleyes: What are you hoping to achieve?

 

EDIT: I have nothing negative to say.

 

the fact that no-one will say anything, until they are backed into a corner & feel they have to. I believe they call it 'fight or flight'. If people aired their grievences more freely & openly, they may find that they all get on much better & also don't get offended so easily. ??

 

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I think that the thread is becoming much more than an issue about one individual poster, its about the kind of behaviour that we accept on GEI and how it should be dealt with.

 

agreed

 

I would also support a 3 strikes and your out policy, with fast tracking for serious cases.

 

 

what if a poster has web-tourettes™ ?

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good post enrieb. :)

 

but a lot of those definitions are open to definition......we can't have 'black'n'white' can we ?

We also don't want to become Stepford Posters.

 

I have never sworn at anyone individually in all the years on any site, yet I swear a lot in real life in a joking sense. I would however like the opportunity to swear if needed, it's my right surely BUT in the right context ??

 

So, who decides the context or level of swearword then ?

 

Very Difficult isn't it.

 

I would say that the onus is on person writing a piece of text to think about how it comes across and to remove any phrases that could be considered ambiguous leading to misunderstanding. This is also dependent on the context of the discourse and the environment and world view of the majority consensus view where the discourse is taking place as well as past interactions with other posters. When some one has a negative interaction with another poster they are more likely read a negative meaning into following posts even if the original poster is not intending to be negative.

 

An example would be on a Christian Internet chat forum, if a new poster did not believe in god and wished to debate this with other forum members then the onus would be on the poster to modify their language so that it did not cause offense. Its perfectly possible to argue about the existence, or non existence, of god with people with strong beliefs as long as you word the subject carefully. If the poster were to simply state that 'god did not exist' and anyone who believe in god is brain washed then they should expect a negative reaction.

 

In real life joke swearing is identified verbally from real swearing by intonation. Real swearing usually has a flat intonation like a statement, whereas joke swearing will have a rising intonation at the end or a rising and falling intonation or even a silly voice. Facial expression and body language will also help to communicate the intent of the swearing as well the social situation, power relationships of the actors involved and previous events and interactions.

 

 

On the Internet all we have to communicate intent is smilies :D and the skill of the writer :( . I have terrible spelling, lack grammer skills, poor sentence structure and prose (whatever prose is again I forgot, gonna have to look it up) I find that I because I have limited writing skills it forces me to post in a very formal manner.

 

I have been trying to learn and improve my writing ability and I'm not really very confident that I use similes correctly so I tend out leave them out for the moment. It takes me a long time to write a post, because I have to re read it and check the spelling and think about how it reads to others, is it offensive? is it condescending? or mere gibberish?

 

Sometimes it takes ages for me to put a post together only to realize that it does not really communicate what it is that I am trying to say, so I end up scraping it. Most of the time I start post and give up half way through or don't bother commenting in thread because I cannot get my thoughts to make sense in writing. Sometimes I find that I am more likely to post or get involved in an Internet argument after a few drinks which is almost always a terrible mistake, because I lack the ability to proof read my posts properly and to read other posts impartially.

 

The onus to think about the words and style used to get across a concept or argument falls most heavily on the writer and the situation than on the reader, although sometimes that internal voice you have when you read can put a different spin on the most carefully thought out piece of writing. If someone does feel that they are developing a dislike to a poster, then sometimes it can be helpful to move the web page slightly off screen to the left to hide the name of the poster to read a post without prejudice.

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good post enrieb. :)

 

but a lot of those definitions are open to definition......we can't have 'black'n'white' can we ?

We also don't want to become Stepford Posters.

What about that shade of grey called 'reasonable'?

Difficlt to define, but I'm sure most of us would know

it when we see it.

ABB

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I would say that the onus is on person writing a piece of text to think about how it comes across and to remove any phrases that could be considered ambiguous leading to misunderstanding. This is also dependent on the context of the discourse and the environment and world view of the majority consensus view where the discourse is taking place as well as past interactions with other posters. When some one has a negative interaction with another poster they are more likely read a negative meaning into following posts even if the original poster is not intending to be negative.

 

An example would be on a Christian Internet chat forum, if a new poster did not believe in god and wished to debate this with other forum members then the onus would be on the poster to modify their language so that it did not cause offense. Its perfectly possible to argue about the existence, or non existence, of god with people with strong beliefs as long as you word the subject carefully. If the poster were to simply state that 'god did not exist' and anyone who believe in god is brain washed then they should expect a negative reaction.

 

In real life joke swearing is identified verbally from real swearing by intonation. Real swearing usually has a flat intonation like a statement, whereas joke swearing will have a rising intonation at the end or a rising and falling intonation or even a silly voice. Facial expression and body language will also help to communicate the intent of the swearing as well the social situation, power relationships of the actors involved and previous events and interactions.

 

 

On the Internet all we have to communicate intent is smilies :D and the skill of the writer :( . I have terrible spelling, lack grammer skills, poor sentence structure and prose (whatever prose is again I forgot, gonna have to look it up) I find that I because I have limited writing skills it forces me to post in a very formal manner.

 

I have been trying to learn and improve my writing ability and I'm not really very confident that I use similes correctly so I tend out leave them out for the moment. It takes me a long time to write a post, because I have to re read it and check the spelling and think about how it reads to others, is it offensive? is it condescending? or mere gibberish?

 

Sometimes it takes ages for me to put a post together only to realize that it does not really communicate what it is that I am trying to say, so I end up scraping it. Most of the time I start post and give up half way through or don't bother commenting in thread because I cannot get my thoughts to make sense in writing. Sometimes I find that I am more likely to post or get involved in an Internet argument after a few drinks which is almost always a terrible mistake, because I lack the ability to proof read my posts properly and to read other posts impartially.

 

The onus to think about the words and style used to get across a concept or argument falls most heavily on the writer and the situation than on the reader, although sometimes that internal voice you have when you read can put a different spin on the most carefully thought out piece of writing. If someone does feel that they are developing a dislike to a poster, then sometimes it can be helpful to move the web page slightly off screen to the left to hide the name of the poster to read a post without prejudice.

 

yes, I rank communication (verbal & body language) skills amongst the highest or most useful skills needed in life.

In many of roles over the years, I have used my excellent communication & non-judgemental, non-generalising skills to interact/liaise between the dopey chavs on the shop floor & the greedy fookw1t managers that rule them. ;)

 

In all seriousness though, your post was very good indeed. I quite often ditch posts that took many minutes to write without posting them, so imagine what I would have been posting. :o:D

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What about that shade of grey called 'reasonable'?

Difficlt to define, but I'm sure most of us would know

it when we see it.

ABB

 

 

 

agreed, & a very reasonable post indeed ABB. :)

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Would posters please do me a favour on this thread, tell me exactly what you dislike about me, not the positives (seriously), just the negatives please.

Who just doesn't like me outright & they just don't know why?

Mrs GOM says I often have this effect. :lol:

OK, you asked for it. Sit down and brace yourself...

 

...3

...2

...1

 

...you're too insecure!!!!!

 

Tell Mrs GOM to get off your case and start boosting your confidence: you're arguably one of the most humorous and pleasant posters on this forum :) ...I'm sure she didn't only marry you for the size of your wallet :lol:

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Another pointless thread about CDS. Makes no difference to me. Although I am enjoying the peace n quiet !!

 

If/when he comes back can we make it a condition that he posts a link to/mention of source please. Thats my only gripe, most of his stuff was copied and pasted in great bulk with no mention that it was not his own work.

 

EDIT: Wrote the pointless bit as I only bothered to read the first page, life is too short

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he did acknowledge this to me privately btw, but he lost his temper because he was singled out, which to be fair he was.

I do also (as I'm sure he would) realise he was/is a controversial poster, he is not an angel & I am not his spokesperson. :rolleyes:

 

He was singled out by his singular posting style.

I thought that Steve was doing him a kindness (not an injustice) by starting the thread.

I saw it as both a WARNING and an attempt to solicit the opinions of others. I really saw no evidence of him being

abused or mal-treated until he lost his temper and began to abuse others.

 

Enreib's post about free-speech makes the point eloquently about the sort of free speech that I want to encourage here.

 

Since you know Swampy, GOM, I will make the following offer:

 

If he wants to be reinstated before Obama's inaugural, then I would be happy for him to post a message here,

through your good help in including it in one of your postings, or in a PM to me, why we should move that timeframe

forward.

 

Note: if the posting contains abuse about the website or the moderators, it is unlikely to help his case. And there is

a chance it could harm it. On the other hand, if he accepts the points that have been made by many here about the

sort of freespeech that is welcome, I may consider removing the ban before the one month that I chose arbitrarilly.

 

I feel that part of the reason that the moderators changed the title, is that the thread is becoming more of a discussion about what sort of behavior is acceptable on GEI.

 

Yes, I was hoping to open up the discussion to more than this particular incident with Swampy.

Thanks for that posting on types of freespeech

 

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He was singled out by his singular posting style.

I thought that Steve was doing him a kindness (not an injustice) by starting the thread.

I saw it as both a WARNING and an attempt to solicit the opinions of others. I really saw no evidence of him being

abused or mal-treated until he lost his temper and began to abuse others.

 

Enreib's post about free-speech makes the point eloquently about the sort of free speech that I want to encourage here.

 

Since you know Swampy, GOM, I will make the following offer:

 

If he wants to be reinstated before Obama's inaugural, then I would be happy for him to post a message here,

through your good help in including it in one of your postings, or in a PM to me, why we should move that timeframe

forward.

 

Note: if the posting contains abuse about the website or the moderators, it is unlikely to help his case. And there is

a chance it could harm it. On the other hand, if he accepts the points that have been made by many here about the

sort of freespeech that is welcome, I may consider removing the ban before the one month that I chose arbitrarilly.

 

 

 

Yes, I was hoping to open up the discussion to more than this particular incident with Swampy.

Thanks for that posting on types of freespeech

 

ok, I will mail him.

 

as concrete jungle says, the ball is in his court now. :)

 

ps - that was a very good post by Enrieb.

 

pps - it's tough being a website owner/moderator isn't it ? ;)

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pps - it's tough being a website owner/moderator isn't it ? ;)

LOL. I'll survive. Humor helps make it easier. Thnx for yours

 

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...

I find that I because I have limited writing skills it forces me to post in a very formal manner.

 

I have been trying to learn and improve my writing ability and I'm not really very confident that I use similes correctly so I tend out leave them out for the moment. It takes me a long time to write a post, because I have to re read it and check the spelling and think about how it reads to others, is it offensive? is it condescending? or mere gibberish?

...

 

You need to learn yourself how to write good like what I does. :P;)

 

Seriously, I think you're one of the best posters I have come across. Your efforts really shine through in your posts :)

 

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I’d prefer not to see images of burning mutilated dead body(s) posted on GEI.

 

I think a link with a suitable warning is OK.

 

What do others think?

 

mSparks - I’m not having a go at you or your post. Just voicing my opinion.

 

Warning: Disturbing Image.

http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....ost&p=87102

 

I agree a warning should be attached, there are no age restrictions to this site.

 

 

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Just thought I'd add my tuppence.

 

I think the Good Docter is a saint to even consider letting cdswamp back considering the abuse. I for one would not be upset if cds took his postings about mini nukes in 911 to another website and not here. If he wants to play nicely, then fine come back,.. but if he wants to do all the conspiracy nut stuff and abuse.. no ta, keep him banned.

 

Cheers

 

Q

 

 

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