Perishabull Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Surely gold has been a currency a lot longer than Jim Sinclair has been alive!! It is 38 years since the gold standard backed paper was dropped I believe, yet when our finest and bravest boys where sent into Iraq behind emeny lines was it gbp the western governments gave them for emergencies or gold coins? Regards ML Currency |ˈkərənsē; ˈkə-rənsē| noun ( pl. -cies) 1 a system of money in general use in a particular country : the dollar was a strong currency | travelers checks in foreign currency | figurative he was rich in the currency of love. 2 the fact or quality of being generally accepted or in use : since the Gulf War, the term has gained new currency. • the time during which something is in use or operation : no claim had been made during the currency of the policy. Gold is a currency, and therefore a currency is a system of money in general use? When you obtain currency for travel abroad why does your local money exchange service not offer gold coins? It's because gold is not a currency. Unless you own a goldmine then of course you want people to lap up "Gold is a currency" like a dog drinks water. Jim Sinclair posts pictures of himself playing with puppies on his website. It's an amazing metaphor, he really is an amazing MOPER. It's certainly true that 95% of people are docile and led around by the nose by the other 5% Think for yourself If gold is insurance when do you sell it? Answer - Never, therefore what's the point in having it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methinkshe Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 - I really am laughing out loud! I wondered how long it would be before someone came along with that predictable response. I do not have gold fever. I trust my guts more than I trust anything else. Of course I have the ability to reason - and do so but only a fool ignores the wisdom of countless generations. BTW, Do you have any idea where this 'gold fever'comes from? It comes from nurturing a love of money (in whatever form) and seeking to possess it as opposed to utilise it. The emotional entanglement with gold which you describe as a "visceral" response has nothing to do with accepting the wisdom of countless generations and everything to do with your personal emotional response to feeling and touching and holding a lump of gold that represents super-condensed monetary worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy-old-man Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Sadly, not much looks cheap. I am nibbling at a few Uranium shares, while thinking they may get hit if stocks selloff. And I have a similar idea about some food stocks and Corn and Wheat. Natgas maybe, but there's good reason for it to be cheap. Land and property in Detroit, but I'm not so sure it will come back in 1-2 decades how are your property purchases doing in Germany btw ? the ones you bought as part of a consortium in 2007 iirc ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans holiday Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 It comes from nurturing a love of money (in whatever form) and seeking to possess it as opposed to utilise it. The emotional entanglement with gold which you describe as a "visceral" response has nothing to do with accepting the wisdom of countless generations and everything to do with your personal emotional response to feeling and touching and holding a lump of gold that represents super-condensed monetary worth. Ouch. Don't be too harsh on us mere mortals. "Gold is tried by a touchstone, and men by gold". some ancient greek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Can't argue with that. Same goes for tulips, myrrh, glass beads, etc... We've been through this before. Yawn. Very few things have the properties suitable to make them useful as money. Gold is one of those things. I can't be bothered to go through the list again as it's been done ad infinitum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Answer - Never, therefore what's the point in having it Why not ask the bankers/Nations who are currently big buyers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methinkshe Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Ouch. Don't be too harsh on us mere mortals. "Gold is tried by a touchstone, and men by gold". some ancient greek. "A love of money is the root of all evil" - more ancient Greek! (Or might have been Aramaic. If not, Koine Greek). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Gold is a currency, and therefore a currency is a system of money in general use? When you obtain currency for travel abroad why does your local money exchange service not offer gold coins? It's because gold is not a currency. Depends which country you are in. In Vietnam, for instance, gold is in current use. Items in shops are frequently priced in gold and you can get gold denominated mortgages. In India and many other countries gold is available over the counter in highstreet banks. Gold is instantly recognised in almost every country and people are prepared to accept it in payment. Gold is the oldest form of money - hard currency - whether you like it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schaublin Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 It comes from nurturing a love of money (in whatever form) and seeking to possess it as opposed to utilise it. The emotional entanglement with gold which you describe as a "visceral" response has nothing to do with accepting the wisdom of countless generations and everything to do with your personal emotional response to feeling and touching and holding a lump of gold that represents super-condensed monetary worth. I think we may be entering the nature vs nurture arena here and that argument never goes anywhere. I am quite aware of the foolishness of expending time and energy to extract gold from the earth - only to lock it up again - but men are foolish and untrustworthy and as long as they are, gold will be money. In a world of perfect men, there would be no prostitution because the sexual urge would be restrained until a loving partner was found and women would not sell themselves. I cannot see prostitution disappearing anytime soon. I am reminded of a Soviet joke about a Westerner in Moscow who asked a policeman what was going on - regarding many women being put into police vans. The man asked if the women were prostitutes. The policeman replied 'in the Soviet Union, the unjust capitalist system that forces women to sell themselves does not exist - we have created a truly just society where men and women share equally in the building of a socialist paradise.' 'But who are these women then?' asked the Westerner. 'Oh, just some whores we are taking in as part of a crack down on prostitution' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manual labourer Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Currency |ˈkərənsē; ˈkə-rənsē| noun ( pl. -cies) 1 a system of money in general use in a particular country : the dollar was a strong currency | travelers checks in foreign currency | figurative he was rich in the currency of love. 2 the fact or quality of being generally accepted or in use : since the Gulf War, the term has gained new currency. • the time during which something is in use or operation : no claim had been made during the currency of the policy. Gold is a currency, and therefore a currency is a system of money in general use? When you obtain currency for travel abroad why does your local money exchange service not offer gold coins? It's because gold is not a currency. Unless you own a goldmine then of course you want people to lap up "Gold is a currency" like a dog drinks water. Jim Sinclair posts pictures of himself playing with puppies on his website. It's an amazing metaphor, he really is an amazing MOPER. It's certainly true that 95% of people are docile and led around by the nose by the other 5% Think for yourself If gold is insurance when do you sell it? Answer - Never, therefore what's the point in having it Answer: When you consider conditions have improved so you reduce your amount of cover. That is sell a proportion or all depending on your ongoing perspective. Gold is still accepted everywhere as a store of wealth worldwide. and has been for thousands of years and I can't see that coming to an end soon? Regards ML. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
routemaster Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Gold is a currency, and therefore a currency is a system of money in general use? When you obtain currency for travel abroad why does your local money exchange service not offer gold coins? There is a Bureaux de Change in Leadenhall St, London, called City Forex who sell gold, silver bullion bars and coins as well as readies for your hols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWIW Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 There is a Bureaux de Change in Leadenhall St, London, called City Forex who sell gold, silver bullion bars and coins as well as readies for your hols. Anyone that believes gold is not a currency has obviously never seen the ISO classifications for currencies: http://www.iso.org/iso/support/currency_codes_list-1.htm ISO 4217 currency names and code elements Entity Currency Alphabetic code Numeric code AFGHANISTAN Afghani AFN 971 ÅLAND ISLANDS Euro EUR 978 ALBANIA Lek ALL 008 ALGERIA Algerian Dinar DZD 012 AMERICAN SAMOA US Dollar USD 840 ANDORRA Euro EUR 978 ANGOLA Kwanza AOA 973 ANGUILLA East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 ANTARCTICA No universal currency ANTIGUA AND BARBUDA East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 ARGENTINA Argentine Peso ARS 032 ARMENIA Armenian Dram AMD 051 ARUBA Aruban Guilder AWG 533 AUSTRALIA Australian Dollar AUD 036 AUSTRIA Euro EUR 978 AZERBAIJAN Azerbaijanian Manat AZN 944 BAHAMAS Bahamian Dollar BSD 044 BAHRAIN Bahraini Dinar BHD 048 BANGLADESH Taka BDT 050 BARBADOS Barbados Dollar BBD 052 BELARUS Belarussian Ruble BYR 974 BELGIUM Euro EUR 978 BELIZE Belize Dollar BZD 084 BENIN CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 BERMUDA Bermudian Dollar (customarily known as Bermuda Dollar) BMD 060 BHUTAN Indian Rupee Ngultrum INR BTN 356 064 BOLIVIA Boliviano Mvdol BOB BOV 068 984 BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA Convertible Marks BAM 977 BOTSWANA Pula BWP 072 BOUVET ISLAND Norwegian Krone NOK 578 BRAZIL Brazilian Real BRL 986 BRITISH INDIAN OCEAN TERRITORY US Dollar USD 840 BRUNEI DARUSSALAM Brunei Dollar BND 096 BULGARIA Bulgarian Lev BGN 975 BURKINA FASO CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 BURUNDI Burundi Franc BIF 108 CAMBODIA Riel KHR 116 CAMEROON CFA Franc BEAC ‡ XAF 950 CANADA Canadian Dollar CAD 124 CAPE VERDE Cape Verde Escudo CVE 132 CAYMAN ISLANDS Cayman Islands Dollar KYD 136 CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC CFA Franc BEAC ‡ XAF 950 CHAD CFA Franc BEAC ‡ XAF 950 CHILE Chilean Peso Unidades de fomento CLP CLF 152 990 CHINA Yuan Renminbi CNY 156 CHRISTMAS ISLAND Australian Dollar AUD 036 COCOS (KEELING) ISLANDS Australian Dollar AUD 036 COLOMBIA Colombian Peso Unidad de Valor Real COP COU 170 970 COMOROS Comoro Franc KMF 174 CONGO CFA Franc BEAC ‡ XAF 950 CONGO, THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF Congolese Franc CDF 976 COOK ISLANDS New Zealand Dollar NZD 554 COSTA RICA Costa Rican Colon CRC 188 CÔTE D'IVOIRE CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 CROATIA Croatian Kuna HRK 191 CUBA Cuban Peso Peso Convertible CUP CUC 192 931 CYPRUS Euro EUR 978 CZECH REPUBLIC Czech Koruna CZK 203 DENMARK Danish Krone DKK 208 DJIBOUTI Djibouti Franc DJF 262 DOMINICA East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 DOMINICAN REPUBLIC Dominican Peso DOP 214 ECUADOR US Dollar USD 840 EGYPT Egyptian Pound EGP 818 EL SALVADOR El Salvador Colon US Dollar SVC USD 222 840 EQUATORIAL GUINEA CFA Franc BEAC ‡ XAF 950 ERITREA Nakfa ERN 232 ESTONIA Kroon EEK 233 ETHIOPIA Ethiopian Birr ETB 230 FALKLAND ISLANDS (MALVINAS) Falkland Islands Pound FKP 238 FAROE ISLANDS Danish Krone DKK 208 FIJI Fiji Dollar FJD 242 FINLAND Euro EUR 978 FRANCE Euro EUR 978 FRENCH GUIANA Euro EUR 978 FRENCH POLYNESIA CFP Franc XPF 953 FRENCH SOUTHERN TERRITORIES Euro EUR 978 GABON CFA Franc BEAC ‡ XAF 950 GAMBIA Dalasi GMD 270 GEORGIA Lari GEL 981 GERMANY Euro EUR 978 GHANA Cedi GHS 936 GIBRALTAR Gibraltar Pound GIP 292 GREECE Euro EUR 978 GREENLAND Danish Krone DKK 208 GRENADA East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 GUADELOUPE Euro EUR 978 GUAM US Dollar USD 840 GUATEMALA Quetzal GTQ 320 GUERNSEY Pound Sterling GBP 826 GUINEA Guinea Franc GNF 324 GUINEA-BISSAU Guinea-Bissau Peso CFA Franc BCEAO † GWP XOF 624 952 GUYANA Guyana Dollar GYD 328 HAITI Gourde US Dollar HTG USD 332 840 HEARD ISLAND AND MCDONALD ISLANDS Australian Dollar AUD 036 HOLY SEE (VATICAN CITY STATE) Euro EUR 978 HONDURAS Lempira HNL 340 HONG KONG Hong Kong Dollar HKD 344 HUNGARY Forint HUF 348 ICELAND Iceland Krona ISK 352 INDIA Indian Rupee INR 356 INDONESIA Rupiah IDR 360 IRAN, ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF Iranian Rial IRR 364 IRAQ Iraqi Dinar IQD 368 IRELAND Euro EUR 978 ISRAEL New Israeli Sheqel ILS 376 ITALY Euro EUR 978 JAMAICA Jamaican Dollar JMD 388 JAPAN Yen JPY 392 JERSEY Pound Sterling GBP 826 JORDAN Jordanian Dinar JOD 400 KAZAKHSTAN Tenge KZT 398 KENYA Kenyan Shilling KES 404 KIRIBATI Australian Dollar AUD 036 KOREA, DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF North Korean Won KPW 408 KOREA, REPUBLIC OF Won KRW 410 KUWAIT Kuwaiti Dinar KWD 414 KYRGYZSTAN Som KGS 417 LAO PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC Kip LAK 418 LATVIA Latvian Lats LVL 428 LEBANON Lebanese Pound LBP 422 LESOTHO Rand Loti ZAR LSL 710 426 LIBERIA Liberian Dollar LRD 430 LIBYAN ARAB JAMAHIRIYA Libyan Dinar LYD 434 LIECHTENSTEIN Swiss Franc CHF 756 LITHUANIA Lithuanian Litas LTL 440 LUXEMBOURG Euro EUR 978 MACAO Pataca MOP 446 MACEDONIA, THE FORMER YUGOSLAV REPUBLIC OF Denar MKD 807 MADAGASCAR Malagasy Ariary MGA 969 MALAWI Kwacha MWK 454 MALAYSIA Malaysian Ringgit MYR 458 MALDIVES Rufiyaa MVR 462 MALI CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 MALTA Euro EUR 978 MARSHALL ISLANDS US Dollar USD 840 MARTINIQUE Euro EUR 978 MAURITANIA Ouguiya MRO 478 MAURITIUS Mauritius Rupee MUR 480 MAYOTTE Euro EUR 978 MEXICO Mexican Peso Mexican Unidad de Inversion (UDI) MXN MXV 484 979 MICRONESIA, FEDERATED STATES OF US Dollar USD 840 MOLDOVA, REPUBLIC OF Moldovan Leu MDL 498 MONACO Euro EUR 978 MONGOLIA Tugrik MNT 496 MONTENEGRO Euro EUR 978 MONTSERRAT East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 MOROCCO Moroccan Dirham MAD 504 MOZAMBIQUE Metical MZN 943 MYANMAR Kyat MMK 104 NAMIBIA Rand Namibia Dollar ZAR NAD 710 516 NAURU Australian Dollar AUD 036 NEPAL Nepalese Rupee NPR 524 NETHERLANDS Euro EUR 978 NETHERLANDS ANTILLES Netherlands Antillian Guilder ANG 532 NEW CALEDONIA CFP Franc XPF 953 NEW ZEALAND New Zealand Dollar NZD 554 NICARAGUA Cordoba Oro NIO 558 NIGER CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 NIGERIA Naira NGN 566 NIUE New Zealand Dollar NZD 554 NORFOLK ISLAND Australian Dollar AUD 036 NORTHERN MARIANA ISLANDS US Dollar USD 840 NORWAY Norwegian Krone NOK 578 OMAN Rial Omani OMR 512 PAKISTAN Pakistan Rupee PKR 586 PALAU US Dollar USD 840 PANAMA Balboa US Dollar PAB USD 590 840 PAPUA NEW GUINEA Kina PGK 598 PARAGUAY Guarani PYG 600 PERU Nuevo Sol PEN 604 PHILIPPINES Philippine Peso PHP 608 PITCAIRN New Zealand Dollar NZD 554 POLAND Zloty PLN 985 PORTUGAL Euro EUR 978 PUERTO RICO US Dollar USD 840 QATAR Qatari Rial QAR 634 RÉUNION Euro EUR 978 ROMANIA New Leu RON 946 RUSSIAN FEDERATION Russian Ruble RUB 643 RWANDA Rwanda Franc RWF 646 SAINT-BARTHÉLEMY Euro EUR 978 SAINT HELENA Saint Helena Pound SHP 654 SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 SAINT LUCIA East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 SAINT MARTIN Euro EUR 978 SAINT PIERRE AND MIQUELON Euro EUR 978 SAINT VINCENT AND THE GRENADINES East Caribbean Dollar XCD 951 SAMOA Tala WST 882 SAN MARINO Euro EUR 978 SÃO TOME AND PRINCIPE Dobra STD 678 SAUDI ARABIA Saudi Riyal SAR 682 SENEGAL CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 SERBIA Serbian Dinar RSD 941 SEYCHELLES Seychelles Rupee SCR 690 SIERRA LEONE Leone SLL 694 SINGAPORE Singapore Dollar SGD 702 SLOVAKIA Euro EUR 978 SLOVENIA Euro EUR 978 SOLOMON ISLANDS Solomon Islands Dollar SBD 090 SOMALIA Somali Shilling SOS 706 SOUTH AFRICA Rand ZAR 710 SPAIN Euro EUR 978 SRI LANKA Sri Lanka Rupee LKR 144 SUDAN Sudanese Pound SDG 938 SURINAME Surinam Dollar SRD 968 SVALBARD AND JAN MAYEN Norwegian Krone NOK 578 SWAZILAND Lilangeni SZL 748 SWEDEN Swedish Krona SEK 752 SWITZERLAND Swiss Franc WIR Franc WIR Euro CHF CHW CHE 756 948 947 SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC Syrian Pound SYP 760 TAIWAN, PROVINCE OF CHINA New Taiwan Dollar TWD 901 TAJIKISTAN Somoni TJS 972 TANZANIA, UNITED REPUBLIC OF Tanzanian Shilling TZS 834 THAILAND Baht THB 764 TIMOR-LESTE US Dollar USD 840 TOGO CFA Franc BCEAO † XOF 952 TOKELAU New Zealand Dollar NZD 554 TONGA Pa'anga TOP 776 TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO Trinidad and Tobago Dollar TTD 780 TUNISIA Tunisian Dinar TND 788 TURKEY Turkish Lira TRY 949 TURKMENISTAN Manat TMT 934 TURKS AND CAICOS ISLANDS US Dollar USD 840 TUVALU Australian Dollar AUD 036 UGANDA Uganda Shilling UGX 800 UKRAINE Hryvnia UAH 980 UNITED ARAB EMIRATES UAE Dirham AED 784 UNITED KINGDOM Pound Sterling GBP 826 UNITED STATES US Dollar US Dollar (Same day) US Dollar (Next day) USD USS USN 840 998 997 UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS US Dollar USD 840 URUGUAY Peso Uruguayo Uruguay Peso en Unidades Indexadas UYU UYI 858 940 UZBEKISTAN Uzbekistan Sum UZS 860 VANUATU Vatu VUV 548 VENEZUELA Bolivar Fuerte VEF 937 VIET NAM Dong VND 704 VIRGIN ISLANDS (BRITISH) US Dollar USD 840 VIRGIN ISLANDS (U.S.) US Dollar USD 840 WALLIS AND FUTUNA CFP Franc XPF 953 WESTERN SAHARA Moroccan Dirham MAD 504 YEMEN Yemeni Rial YER 886 ZAMBIA Zambian Kwacha ZMK 894 ZIMBABWE Zimbabwe Dollar ZWL 932 Gold XAU 959 Bond Markets Units European Composite Unit (EURCO) XBA 955 European Monetary Unit (E.M.U.-6) XBB 956 European Unit of Account 9(E.U.A.-9) XBC 957 European Unit of Account 17(E.U.A.-17) XBD 958 INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND (I.M.F) SDR XDR 960 Palladium XPD 964 Platinum XPT 962 Silver XAG 961 Special settlement currencies UIC-Franc XFU Nil Codes specifically reserved for testing purposes XTS 963 The codes assigned for transactions where no currency is involved are: XXX 999 Link to comment 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Errol Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Schiff on gold: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbqzjL0eKg4...feature=channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 There is a Bureaux de Change in Leadenhall St, London, called City Forex who sell gold, silver bullion bars and coins as well as readies for your hols. There's a forex company in Helsinki which sells gold bars and coins (not silver, though). http://www.tavex.fi/?lang=eng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InSilverWeTrust Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 On the Gold thread, complacency rules ! Wow! What a clear statement of complacency! (Nothing personal in this, but I think this is very dangerous thinking.) There may be a huge, huge volume of hedgie selling in the days to come. The ocean may be pushing through the straw in the opposite direction. It's just the other currencies on the usdx going down Bubb, not the dollar going up. They will all end up going down v Gold/Silver, bit by bit, don't you worry about that! You really should keep your PM''s bashing to the trading thread because you are creating a lot if 'noise'. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ejaculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans holiday Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 "A love of money is the root of all evil" - more ancient Greek! (Or might have been Aramaic. If not, Koine Greek). Yes, gettng at the same idea as the other saying. As you said in an earlier post, gold is the representation of monetary value [which is definitely an improvement of the goldbug's "gold and only gold is money"]. Money takes many different forms... and the vice identified with money [perhaps inappropriately on an investment forum], to which holders of money can become susceptible, is not peculiar to holders of gold but to anyone with money of any sort. That someone sets about accumulating gold or pounds wouldn't say much about whether they had fallen victim to the vice, but could just instead be saying they had succumbed to the virtue of saving [another vice to a certain breed of economists]. If the accumulation is saving towards some future goal, then money would be just a mere means to an end, and not an end in itself.... as it is to lovers of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted December 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's just the other currencies on the usdx going down Bubb, not the dollar going up. ??? A currency's value is determined in relation to other currencies and commodities. The dollar ruled almost all last Friday, except a few stocks, but even these peaked early in the day. This is the mistake the Pied Piper makes. He thinks the dollar is weak, but forgets all the other currencies. The Euro, Yen, and Sterling can all be weaker than the Dollar. And if they are, the trade-weighted dollar will rise, and attract some money, even away from Gold. It may be temporary, but the gold price can take a big tumble anyway. As it did last year. I am a patient gold investor, far more patient than the Pied Piper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compounded Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 ??? A currency's value is determined in relation to other currencies and commodities. The dollar ruled almost all last Friday, except a few stocks, but even these peaked early in the day. This is the mistake the Pied Piper makes. He thinks the dollar is weak, but forgets all the other currencies. The Euro, Yen, and Sterling can all be weaker than the Dollar. And if they are, the trade-weighted dollar will rise, and attract some money, even away from Gold. It may be temporary, but the gold price can take a big tumble anyway. As it did last year. I am a patient gold investor, far more patient than the Pied Piper. Be right sit tight is a kind of patience too. I believe Orlov's, Cgnao's and Martenson's take on it may be right. Trading is a skill I do not have or wish to aquire, novices lose money and you have to be good really good to make profit; I have a job that takes most of my energy and time and makes good money. I think that gold will never be the dog of an investment it was in the 80's and 90's unless the financial system is fixed. If the system is fixed and assuming then government promises are not broken I will be OK even if gold goes to £0. In short gold is insurance for me and it does look more than possible I will need that insurance. Even though I am 50% in gold and silver I do not really have much joy when the price goes up - that's because that is a sign that cg and the others are right. We have peak oil, the biggest ever credit bubble collapsing , a looming demographic crisis, unknown problems with a fiat reserve currency thats in trouble and useless authorities delaying problems with tactics that will just to make them worse later. Samuel Johnson sums it up for me - "those that have gold are in fear those without it are in danger" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methinkshe Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yes, gettng at the same idea as the other saying. As you said in an earlier post, gold is the representation of monetary value [which is definitely an improvement of the goldbug's "gold and only gold is money"]. Money takes many different forms... and the vice identified with money [perhaps inappropriately on an investment forum], to which holders of money can become susceptible, is not unique to holders of gold but to anyone with money of any sort. That someone set about accumulating gold or pounds wouldn't say much about whether they had fallen victim to the vice, but could just instead be saying they had succumbed to the virtue of saving [ a vice to a certain breed of economists]. If the accumulation is saving towards some future goal, then money would be just a mere means to an end, and not an end in itself.... as it is to lovers of money. Yes, these are fine lines we attempt to draw between endeavours which at first glance appear identical: saving and hoarding. I suppose that motive is all.... But gold does seem to offer greater opportunities for developing a hoarding mentality than do paper currencies and financial instruments which I think could have something to do with the tactile response it seems to invoke in the holder. I mean, when did you last stroke a wad of tenners?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 This is the mistake the Pied Piper makes. He thinks the dollar is weak, but forgets all the other currencies. I am a patient gold investor, far more patient than the Pied Piper. LOL! I'm sorry but this is just nonsense. Sinclair makes no mistake. You really think the best gold trader of his generation is not patient or is unable to understand the interaction of currencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorSolar Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 LOL! I'm sorry but this is just nonsense. Sinclair makes no mistake. You really think the best gold trader of his generation is not patient or is unable to understand the interaction of currencies? I think we are getting the glimpse here that the good Dr B is more than capable of doing the types of things to others that he hates to see done to himself. Mockery and making purile pictures of others? Dear oh dear not good form. You call this type of thing debate? And not combative? Please! Buy hey its "his" site so he is free to do what ever he likes. Actually most stuff until recently has been hugely valuable to me and for that I am very grateful. I know Bubb has come in for a lot of unwarranted abuse from others here of late but I also think it is right and proper that these "excesses" of his own be highlighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon junkie Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Dont count on it, GF. You should be so lucky I made a 300% return on my UK property. Sold it, and but the money into Gold shares. where I made about 400% profit before many here even got onboard the bus. I dont mind getting out early, so long as I find something else that is truly cheap. That sounds great, but if you had held on to UK property till 2007 and then sold and then waited to mop up PM stocks after the crash then you would have done even better. My pm stocks are up over 500% this year alone!!! My Uk property was up 400% since 2000 alone. So whilst you think you have played a blinder I am afraid that since 2000 there was a better way to play it. I am not suggesting for a moment that you have done badly but you never seem to ackowledge any other strategy I believe my one was superior to yours and my 500%+ in a little over six months is a stellar return. I personally was not interested in buying gold stocks during the property boom as I could not get leverage in them nor fashion them into a comfortable abode for me and my familly. They were always going to crash PM stocks thatis along with all other stocks my only surprise was by how much of a bargain they became. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans holiday Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Yes, these are fine lines we attempt to draw between endeavours which at first glance appear identical: saving and hoarding. I suppose that motive is all.... But gold does seem to offer greater opportunities for developing a hoarding mentality than do paper currencies and financial instruments which I think could have something to do with the tactile response it seems to invoke in the holder. I mean, when did you last stroke a wad of tenners?! Interesting point you raise. We often talk about the need for balanced trade. I wonder if a "balance" in money is also required. I don't mean in a golden mean moralist sort of way, but more in an economic sense. What works as money was classically and practically defined as that which performs the function of not only a means of exchange, but also a measure and store of value. In our ultra modern world, where economic growth is pursued for its own sake, the function of the means of exchange was taken to the nth degree to the detriment of its function as a measure and store of value. Because of this, consumers didn't find the need to save, indeed were discouraged from saving... it was like controlled inflation became the norm... for CB's at a conscious level, for consumers at a subconscious level.... so the idea was to spend, consume and borrow, then watch your assets inflate in value. I think this is the fundamental flaw to what is essentially the modern economist's view of money. They have a purely "external" view of money which leads to a mechanical and "quantitative" theory of money [which is hopelessly inadequate as deflationary periods have shown, where "internal" psychology/ behaviour/ practice trumps theory]. A monetary system will not work for long without the counter-balancing "qualitative" aspect, where the earners of money rightly value it and balance the worth of keeping it for a future good/ purchase against buying present goods and services. Unless money is considered valuable in its own right, or a "store" of value [a stable value not necessarily intrinsic value] then the balance will be lost between the exchange and value components [public and private?]. On the one hand, you'll have people only too quick and willing to part with their money, as it swings one way, and then on the other hand, or at a later date, unwilling to part with their money and come to value it too much [hoard]. I'd suggest something like this has happened to our economy/ monetary system as it has gone from inflation to deflation. As economic agents seek liquidity, they will deprive the economy of liquidity. What a pickle eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methinkshe Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Interesting point you raise. We often talk about the need for balanced trade. I wonder if a "balance" in money is also required. I don't mean in a golden mean moralist sort of way, but more in an economic sense. What works as money was classically and practically defined as that which performs the function of not only a means of exchange, but also a measure and store of value. In our ultra modern world, where economic growth is pursued for its own sake, the function of the means of exchange was taken to the nth degree to the detriment of its function as a measure and store of value. Because of this, consumers didn't find the need to save, indeed were discouraged from saving... it was like controlled inflation became the norm... for CB's at a conscious level, for consumers at a subconscious level.... so the idea was to spend, consume and borrow, then watch your assets inflate in value. I think this is the fundamental flaw to what is essentially the modern economist's view of money. They have a purely "external" view of money which leads to a mechanical and "quantitative" theory of money [which is hopelessly inadequate as deflationary periods have shown, where "internal" psychology/ behaviour/ practice trumps theory]. A monetary system will not work for long without the counter-balancing "qualitative" aspect, where the earners of money rightly value it and balance the worth of keeping it for a future good/ purchase against buying present goods and services. Unless money is considered valuable [a stable value not necessarily intrinsic value] in its own right then the balance will be lost between the exchange and value components. On the one hand, you'll have people only to quick and willing to part with their money, as it swings one way, and then on the other hand, or at a later date, unwilling to part with their money and come to value it too much [hoard]. I'd suggest something like this has happened to our economy/ monetary system as it has gone from inflation to deflation.... and as economic agents seek liquidity, they will deprive the economy of liquidity. What a pickle eh. Yes, I think you're right. The current view that "a little bit of inflation is a good thing" is a large part of the problem, imo. Surely, any inflation should always be an evil best avoided; for one, it is a stealth tax and for another, as you suggest, it tends to skew people's psychology concerning money and thus their behaviour. I don't know the exact figures but I believe there was a period of circa 100 years in Britian where we had total financial stability and money kept its value. Perhaps that was to do with the gold standard, though. And, of course, government borrowing for consumption against future taxation plays a large part in economic and monetary instability. Without the discipline of a gold standard, it is all too easy for governments to spend now on vote-catching policies and devalue future repayment through deliberately promoting "a little bit of inflation". And where the government leads, the consumer follows. And borrowing to consume is like riding a tiger - once started it is extremely difficult to stop. We have, as individuals and a nation, become accustomed to eating our seed-corn and cadging off future generations for the wherewithal to plant next year's crop. In the long term, famine/dearth is always the result of such short-sightedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's fine to have paper currency but the rate of money supply increase has to be capped at 2% a year AND NO MORE. Unfortunately the people in charge have shown themselves to be incapable of this self-regulation. They've been increasing the money supply at percentages in the teens for years. Decades even. The closing of the gold window in the 1970's spelled the death knell for the dollar. It's only a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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