G0ldfinger Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Labelling posters with your assumptions clearly displays your distorted perception. There are many things that I do agree with in regards to gold-nutter conspiracy theories and yes there are some wonderful sound arguments, however I do not see governments of our day will allow gold be hoarded by the pleb public if indeed a world currency collapse actually happened. I have to stick with my first statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted December 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Thanks for those interesting observations (I love the international aspect of GEI. We have quite a global network here!) My biggest laugh was overhearing two environmental engineers who are working in CPH chatting on the plane about the financial crisis: "The thing is it was excess that got us into this mess and now the only way to get out is more excess." I guess that is how a lot of people see it. A bit frightening. They are so arrogant as to assume that they can draw on the funds of people "who are hurting", to pay for the excess that they want to see. People like that need to have some serious frugality forced upon them - they need to be starve for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzers Posted December 22, 2009 Report Share Posted December 22, 2009 Here is the (original?) version with frequent updates: http://gold.approximity.com/gold-silver_watch.html http://gold.approximity.com/since1930/UK_H...es_in_Gold.html Yes. The original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliveandkicking Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 The kind of comments above are prime examples for the typical nonsense paper bugs spout out. It's quite annoying, but the best is to ignore. Your are in denial again. Which suggests you are incapable of thinking clearly. You have already demonstrated you are incapable of understanding how a government could, if they wanted, create massive deflation at a time of their chosing. Meanwhile whatever reasons you give for telling me i am spouting nonsense I have physical assets i am in possession of and relatively very little cash. Gold bug scenarios invariably call for hyperinflation or system collapse. Gold investment scenarios can rely on solid inflation over a number of years. There is a clear difference between being a gold bug and an investor in gold. If you cannot see it then that seems to be your problem rather than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Labelling posters with your assumptions clearly displays your distorted perception. There are many things that I do agree with in regards to gold-nutter conspiracy theories and yes there are some wonderful sound arguments, however I do not see governments of our day will allow gold be hoarded by the pleb public if indeed a world currency collapse actually happened. Why do you think the EU by law removed VAT from gold bullion purchases in 2000? I think they have studied long economic cycles also and could anticipate a gold bull. The Chinese are actively encouraging their people to buy gold and now silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Your are in denial again. Which suggests you are incapable of thinking clearly. Aha. You have already demonstrated you are incapable of understanding how a government could, if they wanted, create massive deflation at a time of their chosing. What's to understand about this? Of course they CAN, but they NEVER WILL. This however is an insight that you seem to not be able to cope with. Gold bug scenarios invariably call for hyperinflation or system collapse. Gold investment scenarios can rely on solid inflation over a number of years. There is a clear difference between being a gold bug and an investor in gold. If you cannot see it then that seems to be your problem rather than mine. No, I really do think that the problem is on your side here. I have preached for years that my best case scenario is the 70s on steriod. That would easily mean gold at $13,000 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliveandkicking Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Aha. What's to understand about this? Of course they CAN, but they NEVER WILL. This however is an insight that you seem to not be able to cope with. No, I really do think that the problem is on your side here. I have preached for years that my best case scenario is the 70s on steriod. That would easily mean gold at $13,000 or so. The 1970's was a time when a return to the gold standard or the idea that gold was money was still in peoples minds Evidently it is still in your mind. Meanwhile gold is unlikely to be valued as other than something that is useful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!) Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 From: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!) Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 The 1970's was a time when a return to the gold standard or the idea that gold was money was still in peoples minds Evidently it is still in your mind. Meanwhile gold is unlikely to be valued as other than something that is useful history does suggest all unbacked paper currencies fail or is it different this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!) Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 No, I really do think that the problem is on your side here. I have preached for years that my best case scenario is the 70s on steriod. That would easily mean gold at $13,000 or so. assuming they cease creating currency now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliveandkicking Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 history does suggest all unbacked paper currencies fail or is it different this time This is a similar line to all empires fail and the united states will fail in the next 20 years. Other empires in trouble went on in trouble for hundreds of years Or is it different this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliveandkicking Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 From: I am sure peter schiff is not talking about big deflation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPepper Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 Why do you think the EU by law removed VAT from gold bullion purchases in 2000? I think they have studied long economic cycles also and could anticipate a gold bull. The Chinese are actively encouraging their people to buy gold and now silver. Let me take you back in time where history has already been recorded: "On September 30, 1931, her Prime Minister, Fabian Socialist Ramsay MacDonald, took Britain off the gold standard in obedience to the Committee of 300. And in 1933, as one of his first presidential acts, Franklin Roosevelt ordered US citizens to turn in all gold in their possession to the Treasury. He handed over the gold of the United States to the privately-owned tax-exempt Federal Reserve who subsequently moved it to the vaults of the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland. So with the Federal Reserve Act, the Rothschild’s gained complete dominion over the people of America as they already possessed over the welfare of the British Empire. The oligarchs of Genoa and Venice still control 'virtually the entire world's circulating gold stocks'." "In late 1967 and early 1968, as...the U.S. budget deficit grew with the Vietnam War, European confidence in the dollar collapsed. Dollars were cashed in for gold in the European money markets and the flight of gold from the U.S. Treasury reached a crisis stage. This 'Gold Crisis' came to the steps of the Johnson White House, in the form of a delegation of powerful bankers... At night [March 13] Queen Elizabeth...closed Britain's stock exchanges...and, of course, the London Gold Exchange... "Johnson had already been shaken in December by the loss of $900 million in gold, the greatest loss for any month up to that date, but the loss of another $1 billion in the first ten days of March sent him into a panic." "With the Federal Reserve, the Internal Revenue Service, the Stock Market Crash and the depression in place. It was now time to undermine the gold and silver monetary system of the Constitution. As the created stock market crash was the first part of this plot, 4 years later Franklin Roosevelt was elected as the 32nd President of the United States. "Within 24 hours of being elected to the presidency of the United States, In a logical prearranged conspiracy, President Roosevelt called for a special session of congress and obtained the 'War Powers', constitutive upon the war powers act of 1917. This also amended the 1917 War Powers Act (40 Stat 411), changing the STATUS of ENEMIES of the U.S. from Foreign Nations to Citizens of the U.S. "Then on the following day, March 5th ,1933, The President, with the War Powers, then declared a National Bank Holiday from the 6th to the 9th. Effectively declaring war on the people by denying them access to their money and later on by taking their money. "On the 9th he declared the country bankrupt ( in executive orders 6073,6102,6111,6260 ) as proclaimed under the Trading with the Enemy Act (65th congress , October 6th 1917 codified at 12 USCA 95a ) This gave him the power to regulate foreign exchange. 6102, issued on April 5, 1933 , to the public states; "'All persons are required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933 all gold coins , gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them to a Federal Reserve Bank , branch or agency, or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve system.' "On June 5th , 1933, congress confirmed the bankruptcy through the (Joint Resolution to Suspend the Gold Standard and abrogate the Gold Clause, HJR 192) And of course , after they turned in their gold for $20.67 an ounce , it was then fixed at $35.00 an ounce. "The country still had silver coinage until the coinage act of 1965 (79 stat 254,USC 391). A one year grace period was given to turn in all silver certificates through another act on June 24, 1967 (81 stat 77). After this was accomplished the Federal Reserve then bought the silver from the treasury for $1.29 per ounce." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternationalRockSuperstar Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 "'All persons are required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933 all gold coins , gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them to a Federal Reserve Bank , branch or agency, or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve system.' the red bit is key. banks outside of the Federal Reserve System were run out of business, further consolidating the banking power in America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 23, 2009 Report Share Posted December 23, 2009 assuming they cease creating currency now Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Let me take you back in time where history has already been recorded: You didn't answer the question. Why do you think the EU by law removed VAT from gold bullion purchases in 2000? I'm familiar with the history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 history does suggest all unbacked paper currencies fail or is it different this time it is impossible to draw this conclusion, until AFTER all currencies have failed. Answer me this: How about Sterling? Hiow many centuries has it worked as a currency? And were there not periods DECADES LONG where Sterling actually gained value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electroweak Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 it is impossible to draw this conclusion, until AFTER all currencies have failed. Answer me this: How about Sterling? Hiow many centuries has it worked as a currency? And were there not periods DECADES LONG where Sterling actually gained value? Dr Bubb, Sterling was on a gold standard until 1914, and we actually had silver in our coins until about 1946. Has the GBP gained over any decades since 1946? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!) Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 it is impossible to draw this conclusion, until AFTER all currencies have failed. Answer me this: How about Sterling? Hiow many centuries has it worked as a currency? And were there not periods DECADES LONG where Sterling actually gained value? yep when backed by gold a graph of success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliveandkicking Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Fiat is effectively backed by the production of the country. The story of Britains decline since ww2 is pretty well known. The USA manufacturers more things than any other country on earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Gold bug scenarios invariably call for hyperinflation or system collapse. Gold investment scenarios can rely on solid inflation over a number of years. Gold is the best thing to hold in both inflation and deflation - so no issues really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Your are in denial again. Which suggests you are incapable of thinking clearly. You have already demonstrated you are incapable of understanding how a government could, if they wanted, create massive deflation at a time of their chosing. Meanwhile whatever reasons you give for telling me i am spouting nonsense I have physical assets i am in possession of and relatively very little cash. Gold bug scenarios invariably call for hyperinflation or system collapse. Gold investment scenarios can rely on solid inflation over a number of years. There is a clear difference between being a gold bug and an investor in gold. If you cannot see it then that seems to be your problem rather than mine. they way i see it - sure the gov could create that deflation, sure its economically possible, but its politically impossible - the ramifications would be too immediate and drastic for the public to take (even if it may be the best thing to do long term) - rapid deflation - thats how revolutions happen. i don't necessarily believe we will get hyperinflation but we will get high inflation because it can be 'relatively' controlled and it isn't a sharp shock to the public. i also don't think gold needs hyperinflation to get to $10,000 sort of prices - it went up 20 fold in the 70's and can easily do it again. the price of gold in hyperinflation is irrelevant imo - it will be millions/billions/trillions an oz then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drbubb Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Gold is the best thing to hold in both inflation and deflation - so no issues really. Is it? None of the Gold bulls have been willing to talk about my example before: Buy Manhattan with 4-5 ounces of Gold a few hundred years ago, and what's it worth today? Gold is a static store of wealth, and can be easily beat by assets whose value can be grown. But not at all stages of the cycle. And deflation and/or higher rates can hit property at this vulnerable point of the property cycle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans holiday Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Is it? None of the Gold bulls have been willing to talk about my example before: Buy Manhattan with 4-5 ounces of Gold a few hundred years ago, and what's it worth today? Gold is a static store of wealth, and can be easily beat by assets whose value can be grown. But not at all stages of the cycle. And deflation and/or higher rates can hit property at this vulnerable point of the property cycle Most of the time gold functions as money. As such it is difficult to compare "gold money" to an asset that can be bought with money and developed. The Manhattan example is a bit odd. One thing that actually did happen is that the wealthier French sold some of their gold jewellery to buy shares in the Mississippi company a few centuries ago... and they all went broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Dr Bubb, Sterling was on a gold standard until 1914, and we actually had silver in our coins until about 1946. Has the GBP gained over any decades since 1946? Like all other currencies, Sterling got only off the Golddollar standard in 1971. Not sure why Bubb ignores the most simple facts like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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