dst

I can't see the sell price but surely that's not "fair" if it's just a massive spread and you can;t sell at infalted prices too?

I will be the party pooper - if you look at the bullion vault market - US gold is going for $869, front page must be an error (for now )

May I coin a new phrase? 'Dis-inflation' strikes me as a good term for what happens when you get the mix of deflation and inflation. The 'dis' part appeals on all levels and even the youths will understand that 'dis' is a bad thing. And it rhythms with dis-information too which is nicely relevant to what is going on.

 

You heard it here first...

Read the term on wikipedia a while back, this is how it is defined there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinflation

Disinflation is a decrease in the rate of inflation.[1] Being how much prices are increasing per unit of time, it can be expressed using the word disinflation: The slowing of the rate of inflation per unit of time.

 

For example, one month the annual rate of inflation was 4.4% and the next month the annual rate of inflation was 4.0%. In this case the price of goods and services is still increasing, however, it is increasing at a slower rate, 0.4%-points less in the second month than in the first month.

 

Disinflation is proof of success in the battle against inflation. However, the rate of inflation should not decrease until it's negative, which is deflation, which is an overall decrease in prices, since deflation is always regarded as a negative state of the economy no matter how high it is.

It is hard for us to kick the habit of thinking in present dollar terms. Any thoughts?

I thought this quote was interesting:

Investors are turning to gold for protection as two-thirds of the world's population cope with inflation rates that are climbing to more than 10 percent, Wyke said

Inflation is happening all over the world, India's is 11% (Link).

What would you do if you had rupees, keep them in the bank or buy assests like erm gold?

Inflation creating gold demand?

Gold May Rise to $5,000 on Inflation, Schroder Says (Update1)

Bloomberg Link

BBC: Gold Fever

BBC web page before tonights TV programme:

The Money Programme - gold fever, BBC 2 at 19.00 - 19.30, Friday 13 June 2008.

Moneyweek $8500 gold?, bonds in a bubble.

Link

EDIT: oops should read who wrote that...

Oh well, never mind

seizure - i think this is unlikely, but some people recommend physical gold and look after it yourself for this reason.

I don't do this because

1. i don't want to store gold in my home or in a deposit box

2. if you do want to sell quickly, it might be more difficult with physical.

BullionVault.com - you can buy gold in their New York, London and Zurich vaults - many people go for Zurich due to it being the least likely to be seized. I have some in both London and Zurich.

When to buy/sell I think we all worry about that, also the % of your wealth to allocate the gold?

The worst case scenario of a massive collaspe in the POG, I *hope* would only happen after an obvious bubble like growth.

Thinking of owning some gold as an insurance policy against eveything going tits up gives me some comfort.

and in case you will ask/asked about BV failure:

again from BV help pages:

Bailments and business failure

Owning your gold in this way gives you the soundest protection from business failure.

 

When businesses fail liquidators are appointed to take control of the company's assets, sell them and arrange a fair distribution to creditors of various classes including themselves. Liquidators generally claim ownership of every asset on a failed company's balance sheet (which would of course include unallocated gold). However they cannot lawfully treat bailments as the property of the company available for creditors' benefit.

 

Should they try to do so any dispute would be resolved - perhaps even in court - by reference to several key pieces of evidence.

 

The first is a clear documentary statement about who owns the bailed goods. This is stated in BullionVault's Terms and Conditions here, and it is unequivocally you. That fact is also evidenced on the contract between BullionVault and Via Mat.

The second is the company's balance sheet. This is a public document where the assets belonging to the company are annually listed and filed at Companies House. Creditors are entitled to expect that assets listed on the balance sheet protect them from a company's insolvency. But your gold does not belong to Galmarley and has never been on Galmarley's balance sheet. No creditor of the company can claim to rely for protection on gold which the company never claimed as an asset.

The third is the fact of your payment for a custody service. This is evidence that the gold is your property in BullionVault's safekeeping. It evidences the nature of the agreement - i.e. that you are paying for the protection of your property, and not transferring your property to BullionVault for gain. The custody fee is deducted from your cash balance and posted monthly to your statement.

Does this help?

the same thing from the BV help pages:

What does it mean to have "full legal ownership and title of physical gold" in BullionVault?

Ownership of your gold in BullionVault is outright. BullionVault gold is not subject to a trust deed, and it is not anyone's liability. It is - quite simply - your outright property from the instant you buy it to the instant you sell it.

 

In accepting the BullionVault Terms of Business you have engaged BullionVault as a custodian of your gold. BullionVault has subcontracted the physical custody of your bullion to Via Mat. BullionVault has retained responsibility for administration and record keeping, which is performed through the BullionVault.com website.

 

You can see the Via Mat bar lists on the BullionVault website, and reconcile them to the BullionVault customer-by-customer records. You should also know that in its agreement with BullionVault Via Mat fully acknowledges that the gold shall remain the property of BullionVault clients at all times.

 

These are unusually strong property rights for you because there is no intermediation via trusts or company balance sheets. The gold is your personal property and is treated under English law as a "bailment".

That could be a fairly significant difference as they presumably couldn't be forced to give you money for your gold if the market seized up and there were no buyers.

I assume you are asking if BV ran out of money and/or gold?

- as they point out - anyone could step in and provide the liquidity in the market.

Maybe a third party would increase the spread but as anyone could spot the arbitrage situation the spread should reduce.

ie - a third party buys the gold below spot and sells it at a profit on the real open market.

Just thinking aloud...

The breakdown of society: I just assume this will not happen.

Making money

There is a difference between BV and GM, BV is a market place where you are not necessarily buying or selling from BV directly but off another BV user. BV charge between 0.8% - 0.02% on the transaction. Plus they charge for storage 0.12% min $4 per month.

GM - I don't have an account, i think they charge a higher spread when buying.

Liquidity

From a BullionVault email 27/02/2008

We like to stay broadly balanced in both cash and gold at all times,

to offer you consistent, instant liquidity whether you’re a buyer

or a seller. When BullionVault's customers are net buyers we go

to the main market to buy gold. Steady net selling from you makes

us sell the surplus of gold, receiving a top up in cash from the

main market.

There is more in their FAQ/help (link from home page) see "What about liquidity? How can I be sure I will get a fair price when I sell?"

Might of been mentioned before, but my laptop has silver particles embedded in the keyboard to stop bacteria build up.

Sorry to interrupt the thread but does anyone know where I could download the historical price of Gold in pounds sterling? I would like for as far back as is possible and monthly data would be fine. I'm looking to plot average UK house prices when priced in Gold to see if there is a historical average/trend. Perhaps this has already been done on HPC or here, but otherwise I think it would be very interesting

 

Thanks!

THE LONDON BULLION MARKET ASSOCIATION

Daily fix prices since 1985.

Monthly averages since 1990

http://www.lbma.org.uk/statistics_historic.htm

Bullion Vault have their say:

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...t&p=1024411.

Ha! You beat me to it.

Like teacher telling off the children.

Gold Spot broke $1000 as this story broke

Bear Stearns gets emergency funds

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7296678.stm

EDIT: 1003 on goldseek

A bit of trivia while you are waiting:

In 2004 the Austrian mint made 15 1000oz (31.1kg) 100,000 Euro gold coins.

http://www.austrian-mint.com/285?l=en&muenzeId=598

Each one currently worth $997,330.

Can anyone tell me about the rules for ownership of physical gold and silver (i.e. coins)...

 

If I bought some through GoldMoney or CoinInvestDirect, for example, is there a paper trail that has to be provided to the Government, so they know I'd be owning some gold?

 

Or is there a minimum limit on how much you can buy per year without these records being required (think I read something like 5k per year, but can't remember if that was buying or selling).

 

Wouldn't fancy the idea of being forced to surrender any coins if there was a Government confiscation or something.

 

And if there are rules, does it apply to both gold and silver, or is it just for gold?

Here is what bullion vault says (From the help pages - Governance FAQs)

As a British business BullionVault is subject to British law. The situation for British users of BullionVault is typically eccentric.

 

Current legislation requires that where gold is physically delivered to British citizens in a sum exceeding £5,000 in one transaction (or aggregating £10,000 in a full year) then a report must be filed with HM Revenue and Custom's 'Gold Team'.

 

But the Gold Team no longer exists, so although the legislation remains there is no practical way of obeying it. In any event BullionVault does not routinely make physical delivery into the hands of its users (although users are entitled).

 

The nature of BullionVault's business and the fact that BullionVault retains all records of transactions has been notified to HMRC in writing and acknowledged by them. For the time being no-one at HMRC is seeking or receiving any reports of BullionVault trading or holdings.

It could be a decent answer, YES.

Any ideas of what might beat gold?

No.

Isn't it pretty much the answer to when everyone should start selling anything -- when they think they can do better?

Now you have gone and pointed out the obvious I feel a little embarrassed

But on the bright side - I now have a whole new investments strategy...

What is "too soon"?

Do you think everyone can sell "at the top"?

 

What did you do with the money?

I would argue, STR is a good strategy at any time, if you find a better use for your equity.

Is this the answer to the "when should I start selling gold" question?