Schaublin

Thanks for all the info and from the other posters too.

 

I think I will go with Coininvest as I am up north and so would be looking for a delivery anyway. Have you ever heard of anyone getting a fake from Coininvest or one of the other dealers recommended to me. Or is it mainly ebay and other face-to-face sellers that you have to be most wary of? I've seen the guides in spotting/identifying a fake but just wondered if it was still a sizeable risk buying from Coininvest etc. as I would prefer not to pay extra for the proof coins.

I am not sure why you would want to pay a premium for proof coins - I did not know coininvest sold them. As for being worried about them (or any company for that matter) try a google search with something like company x cheats/liars/beware/ etc - should give you an idea. I only used coininvestdirect because I know someone who had used them. If you are nervous, try them with a small order and see how it goes. I agree with your caution but at some point, trust has to be given or no trading of any sort would take place.

Some here who are gloating that the POG dropped 100USD are doomed to poverty unless they change their mind-set.

Cheap money is now being gambled on commodities, the stock market - and a little into gold and some of those playing the zero-sum game, sell, 'lock in profits' and look for the next game. All the while not understanding that while the 'profit' they took in fiat is still a medium of exchange, its function as a store of wealth is disappearing fast.

When the next wave of speculative money goes into gold, it may go to 1600 - and then to 800 as the money goes out again - this will probably repeat a few times with ever increasing hysteria as speculators try to compensate for the fact that faith in the currency as a store of wealth is failing by ever more reckless gambling. I hear the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange was going like the clappers towards the end.

For those that claim that profit could be used to buy assets - I agree but actually buying assets and comforting yourself that you could buy assets if you wanted to but prefer to have another gamble are not quite the same thing.

Hi,

 

I am wanting to buy a bit of gold as a hedge against inflation/hyperinflation. I have looked into it over the past few days and am thinking about buying gold sovereigns from ATS Bullion or Coinvest, would you recommend either or both of these dealers? Also, I haven't been able to find out why different Gold Sovereigns with the same gold content are priced differently on the same site (there are some at £180 and some at £190 on coinvest), is it worth paying the extra £10 (would I get back more than the approx. 2% extra I paid for the £190 coin when I came to sell it) or is it just the rarity value that increases the price?

 

I am a novice and so would appreciate any advice anyone thinks is relevant to my situation. I live in the UK and as I say I am doing this to (hopefully) protect part of my savings as I am saving for a house but with the way things are going it looks like I may be waiting a year or more before prices come down to a reasonable level.

 

Thanks in advance.

I used coininvestdirect recently and found it offered a good service with tracked delivery. As for which Sovs, - I know there is a slight premium on older ones - I class this as numismatic interest so I would not pay the extra but some are willing to pay a few more pounds for them. Also the 5g, 10g, 20g, 50g ingots are worth a look - for the continentally minded!

Also, look here http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=3782

Regarding house prices: I think there will be some nominal falls (priced in GBP) to come but I think to understand how the UK housing market will unwind, have a look at Goldfinger's graph of OZ gold/UK houseprices

I would skip ebay.

 

Ditto unallocated accounts or bank looking after my gold.

 

New coins-depends on what you buy. Low mintages push up the value. eg Gold Trafalgars had a mintage of 1805 pieces. These were 495. Now they top 1000 at least. They will only gain in value.

The olympic countdowns might be worth getting if you think the olympics 2012 may be cancelled due to unforseen geopolitical/financial events..

 

Skip dodgy companies advertising left right and center. Stay with trusted coin dealers.

 

DYOR on BV or GM. Are we sure their allocated accounts aren't tungsten filled gems supplied by dodgy central bankers? Are we sure they'll never be somehow confiscated/banned/suspended.

 

I would skip numismatic rarities unless you really know what you're doing and have wods of cash. Nobody will give a hoot what your mint mark is in a BFC situation. Being a quarter, half or full oz will be easy to explain to the public rather than ducats or sommat.

 

Having metals to hand fulfills one of the most basic criterion for owning gold IMO. Slip them in your pocket/luggage and transport them wherever you go, however you go. Worth the price of the premium IMO.

 

BV wont give you ready to go coins on delivery. You get smelly bar segs which could, as I suggested, be Tungsten friendly. Ask the Chinese for details.

 

 

I know my preferred route.

Agreed Jake, I advise sticking to sovereigns or one ounce bullion coins I would never buy a proof coin unless it was priced the same as a standard coin and I am not interested in numismatic value.

I would not dismiss ebay completely - if you have patience, you can find local sellers and arrange to pick up in person and pay cash - there may be more available than the one piece advertised. Of course, all due diligence should be observed - I don't use ebay much now but I advise looking at the wording of the ad - is there some history? Is the ad well written etc? The seller can be contacted and a telephone chat before the end of the auction should be able to tell you what kind of person you are dealing with. I would also advise buying from a coin dealer - especially if you have never bought before - you will get a feel for the real thing and will be unlikely to be cheated when buying privately.

It is not rocket science - when you have handled some sovs or one ounce bullion coins you will be able to feel a copy immediately.

My sentiment as well.

 

 

I know it's like telling GEIs how to suck eggs but, there is this article on timesonline about the worst wasy to invest in gold.

 

 

 

http://timesbusiness.typepad.com//money_we...o-buy-gold.html

Adrian Ash is trying to trash all the ways to acquire physical gold in order to steer you into Bullionvault. Bullionvault has some advantages especially for those wishing to trade a bit but allocated or not, the gold is not in your possession.

Just stumbled across this one so apologies if already posted but Five experts make their house price predictions for 2010

 

Nicholas Leeming, commercial director for Zoopla, the property website ...December 2010 year-on-year change - up 2 - 3 per cent

 

"There may be areas, such as central London, where prices will appreciate faster due to increased demand"

 

Michael Saunders, UK economist for Citi...December 2010 year-on-year change - up 5 per cent - 10 per cent

 

"We are exiting recession in the current quarter and the economy will grow next year. The recovery in the housing market has been an important factor in why we are exiting recession.

 

 

http://timesbusiness.typepad.com/money_web...redictions.html

Thanks for posting that - I now know that there really are alternative realities. The sheer stupidity of such utterances just makes me laugh out loud!

g:s = 62.88 -- silver has held up very well!

Annoyingly well as I am keen to buy a few ounces of silver on Bullionvault next week when their silver bourse opens!

Ummm... what's going on in the real world?

 

Hyperinflation is nice in theory but does not cut it in the real world [which is there by the way to substantiate or repudiate theory]. This is because money primarily has a practical basis and not a theoretical one. We were all told when growing up that money makes the world go round, that money moves the world. But this hard-headed abstract maxim is being falsified before our eyes… money is not moving. Why? Because the exact opposite is nearer the truth, that the world makes money go round, that the basis of money is practical. It can never be analyzed in isolation in a set of theorems, but rather has to be observed within concrete circumstances. This is what muddle-headed monetarists have got so wrong. It is the same mistake the quants made. They were so obsessed with the elegance, beauty and certainty of their a priori principles and rational models, that they allowed those theories and models to become reality. Of course, this is the very definition of madness, when the figment of your imagination supplants reality. The reality was that the madness of the quants led to an economic ruin still playing out today.

 

1.When you consider and observe the way in which money behaves in the real world, it is absurd to think hyper-inflation could happen to the central reserve currency. 2. What I am more interested in is why hyper-inflationists cling to this belief. Perhaps the basis of hyper-inflation lies in the enthusiastic imagination of its adherents. 3. Clear and distinct ideas are provided by authoritative figures. The ideas are easily understood along the lines of mathematical theorems. The ideas are essentially simple and not complex proceeding along axiomatic lines and generally agreeable to the more rationalist and mathematically minded. They provide certainty and a guaranteed eventual outcome in an uncertain world. The real world may fly in the face of hyper-inflation, but this is of no consequence as an eventual hyper-inflation is as certain as the second coming. 4. This makes hyper-inflation more of a world-view or a faith than a provisionally held theory which would be open to being falsified.

 

I daresay someone with more knowledge than I will be along soon to take you to task but in the meantime:

1. I cannot see why it is absurd to think that the USD will go hyper - The Soviet Union was a vast empire with similar problems and it happened there.

2. I do not 'cling' to any belief - I analyse what is before me and draw the best conclusions that I can.

3. So I am easily led - because I seek out historical precedents and draw conclusions!

4. I am always alert to changes and modify my opinions accordingly but I simply cannot understand how an empire that is so far gone that it is reduced to buying its own debt and is using military force in order to try to frighten the rest of the world into continuing to buy its debt can last much longer.

I have a great respect for you via your posts but I am at a loss as to how we can perceive things so differently!

As we sit here, vast underground nuclear-powered printing press complexes are spewing out uncountable amounts of USD. Specially trained monkey/human hybrids are entering zeros on the balance sheets of the Federal reserve computers in order to prop-up a bankrupt empire while cunning Asiatics look on inscrutably* and yet...and yet, some are convinced that the USD is a good store of hard earned wealth.

Am I missing something important?

*Wondering how to convert their own mountain of USD into gold, silver, industrial metals and oil for their own internal modernisation while those USD still have some purchasing power.

the fact that Sinclair's a total dickwad doesn't make gold a bad investment though.

You have summed up my own complex feelings about Sinclair in one short sentence!

The Pied Piper speaks!

 

Who is in his kitchen?

The gas is full on, and they are lighting up a ciggy

Bubb, can you translate that into plain English so that those of us not on your esoteric wavelength can understand?

I am waiting for Bullionvault to open up to 'ordinary' members next week so I can buy a few ounces of silver. Hopefully, the sales will last until then - I do not like paying more than two packets of cigarettes for an ounce.

Ok, own up - who has broken ranks and is buying again?

I guess the job summit worked.

 

Gold down 2%.

Here comes the volatility - I would love a 10 percent drop!

Yeah I fell out with CID a while ago and no longer deal with them.

What was the problem with CID? Don't expect 'blow by blow' just the general gripe - if you don't mind.

Regarding selling, why not mention here on GEI what you wish to sell - and anyone interested can PM you.

I meant: "Now what?"

I am beginning to think that the tail may now be beginning to wag the dog. I believe that the POG is used by many as a gauge for uncertainty but at a certain point, especially after a fast rise, I think the price will, of itself, feed the uncertainty - and start a cascade.

Also, with Sinclair's first prediction having arrived, I believe it may deter 'profit taking' and perhaps embolden fresh buying from those who, having seen a concrete 1224 - despite many calling the top at 1150, will feel that Jim's 'magic numbers' are on track.

Goldfinger, I thought you would have had a wall of screens - giving continuous updates on everything from gold to pork-bellies!

What now?

Yes - went through 1225 about 10 mins ago - back to 1222 now.

Bloody hell, there's no stopping it. Gold's run £114/t oz ($233/t oz) in 2 months...

Sinclair just got his 1224/Oz

Just been chatting with a friend about how ridiculously cheap silver was back in 09 - an ounce of silver could be bought for the same amount as two packets of cigarettes!!

Edit: Sorry, I realised I am on the 2009 thread not 2011!

Why Is HSBC Backing Out Of The Gold Storage Business?

Posted: Dec 02 2009 By: Jim Sinclair Post Edited: December 2, 2009 at 12:13 am

Filed under: General Editorial

 

Dear Friends,

 

I still am plagued by the question, WHY?

 

You make more money from investor accounts than you ever will from large commercials in the same amount of space.

 

Storage is space times charges which equals revenue. After that it is all computerized billing and confirmation.

 

With gold climbing steadily higher while showing signs that presage a ballistic move upwards, I have to conclude that there is a problem in the gold market itself stirring below sight that the community has little or no idea about.

 

We have reviewed all the present and potential economic problems and know them better here than anywhere else.

 

I told you a long time ago that there are times when the hair stands up on the back of my neck. This is how gamblers in the final analysis know when to hold or fold them. This is what Bert Seligman and Jesse Livermore had that no one since then has had.

 

The story that small clients are not wanted would not require multiple Brinks trucks. Small coin and bullion deliveries are made by US mail.

 

What does HSBC know that is the basis for wanting to get rid of good business? It has been reported that HSBC storage internationally has been backing out of the gold business for awhile.

 

Why?

 

I smell delivery problems not just from HSBC, but maybe widespread.

 

I wonder if there might be a problem with authenticity. I wonder if exchanges have ever questioned the authenticity of their warehouse stock.

 

We live in a soulless, depraved world. Every possible scam has taken place.

 

Depending on whether the subject is gold or silver, reports indicate scammers are mixing a different ratio of lead/tungsten to match the density of gold or silver and putting it in the inside of the hollowed-out bar. The only way to detect it is by drilling or by gamma ray scanning.

 

We know coins have been adulterated for years. That is why we do not buy other than from well established coin dealers.

 

Regards,

Jim

I am starting to question some of the opinions of Sinclair of late. He is showing a complete ignorance of metallurgy when he talks about 'mixing lead and tungsten'. Simple thermal or electrical tests are sufficient for testing - no need for drilling or radiation. He says 'we know coins have been adulterated for years' - really? I have never seen an adulterated coin - and a dealer I know has not either. Why is Sinclair deliberately trying to instill doubt into people's minds with this misinformation?

Perhaps he is behind 'well established coin dealers' and wants you to buy from him!

Edit: Silver has a density of 10.5 and lead is 11.35 so I would like to see how the density of silver can be matched by a 'mixture of lead and tungsten' when tungsten has a density of 19.25!!

No-one seems to have commented on the (possible) link between the obvious imperial over-reach of the US in Afghanistan - another 30 000 men going into the meat-grinder and the desire to own gold and silver as evidenced by 1200 USD. I see a lot of comments and opinions based on charts but very little on the bigger picture.

Now just bought a kilo of silver! Do I win a prize?

Please let us know how you managed it - I cannot see any way of buying silver.

Gold mentioned on iPM (Radio 4) this afternoon. An interesting piece - not just about the recent high...

 

[This was a response to a request to provide the price of gold more often, but turned into a reasonable piece on valuing wealth in terms of gold rather than local currency. Ultimately the presenter didn't 'get it', but didn't actually ridicule the suggestion either... ]

 

Was this instigated by anyone here...?

 

Not yet on iPlayer, but maybe later...

Heard it - the guy came across well and stood his ground despite the patronising tone of Nils Blythe. It was telling that at the conclusion, the female presenter announced Friday's closing price of gold - and added that as it was so high she may sell her earrings.

Wow, that CGNAO has always been ahead of the game, he's even posting from tomorrow morning now!

Yes, I thought Goldfinger may have been a time-traveller but it seems that CGANO really is - no wonder he understands what is coming!