InternationalRockSuperstar

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Guys... politics is not about what ought to be in an simple ideal world [or not be], but about what is, and managing the complexity of that.

politics is about wielding violence-derived-power over other human beings.

'complexity' does not justify initiating violence.

and central banking isn't even remotely complex - despite the mysticism the MSM likes to shroud it it - and this is something that people are awakening to.

A currency is always a social institution.

no gov't involvement is required to produce a liquid, widely accepted currency.

e-gold had 5 million accounts and growing, before the statists made their excuses and shut it down.

As for far right libertarian ideology

free market is a methodology, not an ideology.

Expect more pragmatic government involvement... deal with it.

gov'ts are bankrupt. deal with it. expect much less gov't invovlment within only a few years. they simply can't afford otherwise.

The "free" market you talk about... free from law and government.... is just barter.

barter? what are you on about.

a free market in money would most likely involve privately-issued currencies, such as e-gold.

There is a tendency to reify the "free market" today, where the idea of the market is turned into some ontic reality, which exists over and above, or outside of, society.

there is a tendency amongst statists to use elaborate wordings and vague collectivist terms, any old crap really, to attempt to mask the fact that all government intervention means forcing people to do stuff using violence.

The reality is actual free markets exist only within the context of society, government, institutions and law.

you cannot refuse governments' offers, therefore gov't intervention is not compatible with free market methodology (see sig).

Given this, "market forces" can not really fix the problem, all they can do [insofar as they are the sum of investor behaviour] is exacerbate the problem [and perhaps for good reasons].

market methodology was in the process of working through solutions, but the banksters and politicos didn't like the answer (because it didn't involve them), so they intervened.

The solution will then have to be governmental. In order to halt the economic collapse, government will...

you are advocating solving an economic problem caused by gov't intervention with yet more gov't intervention.

genius.

From a "free market" perspective this would be a fixing of the gold price.

it would be extorting gold from people under threats of kidnapping and locking up. that's what a gold standard is.

This is the end game imo and will solve trade/ currency imbalances/ instabilities at the same time by fixng currencies at the appropriate levels to gold.

if you think countries on a gold standard don't have trade imbalances, you need to recheck your history.

subjective.

This will also allow money/ trade to find an equilibrium between nations as it finds its natural level due to gold serving as a kind of natural "ballast" to trade.

illogical to expect something to find a 'natural' (doesn't that sound lovely) level when you're forcing people to use it at gunpoint.

For those that have a bias against government for whatever reason, consider that a gold standard is a natural restraint on what governments can and can not do.

what planet are you on?

look around you. do you see any national currencies backed by gold?

no, you don't. that means every gov't that was ever on a gold standard simply abandoned the gold standard when it 'got in the way'.

gov't is a violent monopoly and they will do whatever the hell they want, so long as their extortion efforts fund their operations.

and there's nothing natural about it.

what gold bugs miss to see is that the FOREX system is already a back bone for unified currency system, it just needs to evolve enough to be connected to all the banks and all credit/debit cards of all the citizens in the world.

what you have missed is that the FOREX system is completely detached from actualities; therefore is devoid of price-signals; therefore it will continue to misallocate capital until the system completely implodes.

I think the actual behaviour of the masses in the real economy today negates any threat of hyper-inflation any time soon

the behaviour of the masses does not negate any threat of hyper-inflation, since hyper-inflation is caused by a very small minority within the population.

PS the hyper-inflation already started almost a year ago. if you mean mental price rises and currency repudiation, well that's probably a little over two years away.

Sub 1000 is still possible...

blimey. I thought you'd given up on that one as well.

Sure, but the next leg up could be up to a year away yet. There's a good chance Sinclair is going to miss that target of 1650 by January 2011.

not as much chance as there is of you missing your target of sub $1000 gold by the end of time!

 

I thought this chart was interesting. It maps the NZ dollar/ US dollar against gold/US dollar. The NZ dollar [the kiwi] got pounded in the 2008 round of deleveraging...

it had nothing to do with deleveraging. credit isn't money, remember.

no, a far more probable cause is the the fact that the NZ Gov't/Central Bank pissed away US$9 bil (US$3000 for every single person in New Zealand) propping up the US Dollar via currency swaps.

 

see 2 min 27 sec:

 

From:

 

 

It didn't mean much to me when gold rocketed up to $2000 in the NZ dollar price [my native currency] a while back [now at 1600 or so] because it was only reflecting a weakened currency due to international capital flow.

no, a far more probable cause is the the fact that the NZ Gov't/Central Bank pissed away US$9 bil (US$3000 for every single person in New Zealand) propping up the US Dollar via currency swaps.

see 2 min 27 sec:

From:

bought some more today.

IMF takedown failed. Raise the discount rate.

doesn't look like that's worked either.

RH lost is temper, with some real justification, and has suspended CJ for one month.

blimey! what happened to good old Steve Netwriter? He used to just delete the viagra adverts and leave us to it.

The Fed raised the discount rate from 0.5 percent to 0.75 percent, saying the move will encourage financial institutions to rely more on money markets rather than the central bank for short-term loans.

er, but isn't the Central Bank interfering in money markets also?

House prices make a strong start to 2010

Do folks still see a UK house price crash eclipsing that of the 1990s?

well the state didn't explode in a hyper-inflationary supernova in 1990, so yes this crash will be significantly worse (in real terms).

Schaublin, I think your argument about an imposed system is interesting, and as a friend of organic growth, competing currencies, and gold as money, I see the point. However, I would argue that also the imperial system didn't develop in an entirely free way. Given that, wild growth with smaller restrictions can sometimes become very wild, or inefficient. I do believe that the metric system is superior.

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in a free market in measurement, there would be no legal metrology.

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Another good example for its superiority is the relationship of volume and weight in the metric system, with one liter (=[0.1m]^3=1000cm^3) of water (or milk) weighing 1kg=1000g.

you've never heard of fluid ounces then?

Bottom's in people! $1082.1 at about 3pm today!

RBCI © says so!

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...howtopic=135233

Big Market Shift Imminent As Gold Bulls See 30% Drop

Realistbear

bought some more today.

had some EUR piling up and very nearly bought yesterday. the RBCI was just the nudge I needed.

well I'm glad I didn't bother planting a winter crop; it would have been ruined by this weather!

I recently bought some silver half expecting one last wave up here [even though I expect gold to revisit 900 handle at later date] . Nice little profit on this trade so far.

yes, I have noticed your habit of delaying annoucements of your alleged bullion purchases until after it has already increased in price.

yes I saw Double Agent caught you out pointed that out.

yes I saw that too.

My record has been pretty good so far with currencies:

is it?

• could you post your GM profit/losses since he opened his account with GM - it will all be on record

In a deflation, what is good for the economy is "bad" for the currency, and vice-versa.

nope.

imposed currencies are always bad for an economy. ALWAYS.

hey IRS,

 

it's like watching financial car crash tv stuff in super sloooooooooooooooow motion isn't it.

well that's why CBs have chosen inflation rather than deflation. if they let the banks fail in 2007 then it would all have been over very quickly - but then of course JP Morgan wouldn't have been annnoucing record bonuses yesterday.

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we could well see gold eventually testing the 900 handle.

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After a good run up in 2009, 2010 could see a corrective year [similiar to 2008] for gold

2008 was 'corrective'?

house values have been artificially elevated for years (decades, tbh) because of:

• mortgage lending
• welfare rents

these two props are now crumbling because:

• banks are cash-flow insolvent (on top of the usual balance-sheet insolvency)
• gov't is broke

10 out of 10 for effort:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/finance...20-billion.html

Housing benefit bill rises to nearly £20 billion

Housing benefit payments will rise to more than £20 billion this year as the country's welfare bill spirals during the recession.

Saturday, 2 January 2010

 

The Government estimates it will pay out £19.6 billion in housing benefit during the 2009/10 financial year...

 

The year-on-year rise, of almost 15 per cent, is the steepest for more than 15 years. In 2010/11 the bill is expected to rise still further, to £20.8 billion.

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Earlier this year The Sunday Telegraph revealed that housing benefits were paying for an unnamed family to live in a seven-bedroom home at a cost to taxpayers of £147,000 a year, while 550 families were receiving more than £30,000 annually in housing handouts.

 

...it emerged that Toorpakai Saiedi, a single mother of seven from Afghanistan, was living with her children in a privately-rented, seven-bedroom, £1.2 million house in west London with her rent of £12,458 a month paid by taxpayers.

 

In another case a Somalia-born couple and their eight children were paid £1,600 a week in housing benefit to live in £1.8 million London mansion.

 

And last month it emerged that single mother-of-eight Francesca Walker is living in a five-bedroom, £2.6 million home, again in London, where she receives more than £90,000 a year in housing allowance.

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Nationwide 17 per cent of households receive some form of housing benefit, but in areas of London the figure reaches more than 40 per cent.

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I wonder how GM and BV will discover price with no COMEX? Ebay perhaps?

if more customers are coming to them as buyers than sellers then they raise their prices.

if more customers are coming to them as sellers than buyers then they lower their prices.

if more customers are doing business with their competitors then they narrow their spread (or go bust or somehow offer a higher value service).

pretty simply stuff really.

the eggs futures market was closed down in the '40s. I haven't had any trouble aquiring eggs lately.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbys...ks-lending.html

UK property black hole threatens banks' lending

Sunday, 20 December 2009

 

Britain is at risk of a mass sell-off of distressed properties that would send values into a double dip and impair the lending ability of banks.

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It warned of an increasing number of loan defaults given the 44pc fall in the value of shops, offices and warehouses since 2007.

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However, the Bank also described how the approach of the lenders to withdrawing from the property sector could jeopardise the economy's recovery.[ ]

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But so far the banks have preferred to keep hold of most of their distressed assets while analysing their worth [i.e. mark to myth] and planning how to increase their value.

...

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we could well see gold eventually testing the 900 handle.

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Wow, $1110 broken, but looks like $1100 has been defended.

 

It's a bit quiet on here today - everyone got a post Xmas party hangover or what?

USD 1105 now.

is this an early Christmas present from our banking overlords?

probably some sort of trick, but I bought some more today anyway.

You can't have a nice debate on this forum anymore.

 

I think I'll leave.

 

Dr Bubb - please can you delete my i.d.

 

Thankyou.

I would stongly urge you to reconsider.

the reason A&K resorts to ad hominems, strawmen, false dichotomies, confrontation, personal insults etc is because he cannot backup what he is posting with facts, evidence, logic etc.

i.e. what he posts is wrong.

I understand your frustration that responding to his posts is less about economics and more about trying not to get caught up in his diversionary tactics, but that is useful skillset for you to learn in itself, and one which will no doubt be useful when you meet such people face to face from time to time.

you can learn a lot from A&K