wrongmove

Seems to be the case - I think Kitco was down briefly earlier. As I say, I have never noticed a delay before. Thanks.

Cheers - it seems that the Kitco price is just delayed - but I hadn't noticed this before.

I am getting a discrepancy between the price of gold reported by Kitco and IGIndex, which I haven't noticed before. At the time of posting, Kitco says around $910, whereas IGIndex says around $901 Does anyone know which is more reliable, or can suggest a 3rd party than is better than either?

Gold is still nearly +5% MoM and more than +35% YoY. As long as you are not geared (at say, £500 a pip to pluck a number out of the air), this is just noise, surely?

I agree with everything you say. To me, gold is just another asset class, and if you can spot its periodic time in the sun, you can profit greatly. But all the arguments seem to revolve around "gold is real money" and make no reference to the problems specific to any one time, but argue against cash under any circumstances. Some are so attached to this reasoning they will surely ignore the inevitable blow off top that eventually forms, and be buying that "bargain priced" gold all the way down again. This is what I an many others find objectionable about some goldbugs arguments, particularly when accompanied with arrogance and hubris. In general, when you start to see arrogance and hubris, the end is near, in most peoples' experience. Rearrange "pride fall before comes" for the folk wisdom version of what I am trying to say.

And in the 1990s?????? Index linked cash investments held up ok, whereas gold just drifted downwards - in nominal, let alone real terms. Where would this have left a pensioner? Should they risk a repeat of this?

I was specifically talking about pensions - the usual route is an annuity, which can be index linked. More recently, people have tried to use property, which pays a rental income, regardless of whatever happens to its capital value. You are suggesting just whittling away at a non-productive and highly volatile asset. For a pension?? So is gold a good short to medium term punt? - quite possibly. If we go into deflationary recession, and oil crashes, taking commodities and gold with it, you can just put it down to experience. But is gold a good place to put your entire life savings, just at the point when you stop earning income? Well, historically, no it isn't. Now? Maybe, but no-one is going to do it unless they are either extremely well researched and sure of themselves, or total idiots. These two totally different groups combined is not many people IMHO. I just think that people tend to be hyper cautious with pensions - quite rightly, there is no second chance if you cock up - so gold is not going to be for the vast majority, even if it does turn out to have been a good option.

Very true. But gold is no good to a pensioner - it doesn't generate an income. In fact, it generally costs money to store. All a pensioner could do with gold is to slowly sell it in order to eat etc., with no chance at all of ever being able to top up again.

But who today actually has any fiat? People have debt and houses, not cash! Inflation is generally pretty friendly to both.

It only takes one or two to start a flame war. I wouldn't bother visiting this forum if I thoughty the majority were arrogant know-it-alls.

I am sure that chrysophobes exist, but most of the antagonism about gold on BBs in not chysophobia, it's just a dislike of that minority of goldbugs that think they know it all, and that they know what is best for everyone. That attitude riles people, whatever the subject matter.

The same argument could be made for absolutely any asset on the planet. Even Taylor Wimpey shares look good in Z$! Not a critisism of gold, btw, just a critism of the argument.

Well I guess it took about a decade of "property porn" before that bubble finally burst.

Gold Fever BBC 2, 19:00–19:30 on Fri 13 Jun 2008 The Money Programme's Max Flint travels to the gold mines of Nevada and the souks of Dubai to find out why. He meets the investors who are converting their savings into gold and puts claims that it even improves your complexion to the test. With reports suggesting that a recession is looming, there's never been a better time to examine the eternal allure of gold. Are programs like this a bit of a danger signal (shoeshine boy moment), or does the bull still have decades to run?

Some Litium info Lithium In 2001 (most recent figure, unfortunately): World production was 15,000 tonnes World resources were 12,000,000 tonnes Looks like there is plenty around, unless Li-ion really takes off. Have you come across Li-polymer batteries ? I have a colleague who designs small, powered (model) aircraft, where energy density is vital. He has been using Lipoly for several years now as it significantly out performs Li-ion in his opinion. He actually has a very small business, importing Lipoly in bulk and then retailing them over the net, mainly to other model enthusiasts, I believe.

Very good point though. I have no idea how much Lithium is available for exploitation. It is a very simple atom, so probably quite a lot. I shall try and look into it Make sure there is enough left over for the manic depressives though! Lithium has been a "wonder drug" for people with this condition. Edited to add: A quick look on Google reveals that most Lithium mining takes place on Rigel VII http://mirkwood.ucs.indiana.edu/startrek/e...?sn=1&sr=1&ep=9

Agree that lead-acid is a very old technology. It still does a good job where high peak loads are required though, eg. starting a car. When cars come with Li-Ion batteries instead of lead-acid, we will know that a lot of progress has been made. At the moment though, Li-ion is miles away from being viable for storing domestic electricty. Cheak out the price of batteries, and then work out how many kWh they hold. They are also have a limited lifespan.

Stored power has been around for decades, in a small way. As a student, 20 years ago, I used to clean the offices of a company called UPS, or Uninteruptable Powers Supplies. They sold great banks of lead-acid batteries wired to inverters to generate 240v ac. They were, and still are, used in the IT industry to ensure that power cuts do not cause a catastrophic failure of critical computer systems in a power cut. They are way to expensive and bulky for general use or power applications though.

There is a good Wikipedia entry on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_energy_storage To summarise, at the moment, pumped water is probably the most effective, but suitable sites are rare. Some battery technology looks promising but costly, and hydrogen may be an option in the future.