Compounded

Confiscation means they make you sell at an official cheap price, which is not very different to giving you the real price with some special tax on the "windfall" Virtually all my gold is in my goldmoney SIPP pension; I wonder what they will do with gold in pensions?

I had this with Chard - they were concerned that they would be pilfered from a RM depot when there are few staff around. I got the impression they knew what they were talking about.

I gave them a go - all arrived ok. Prices are VAT free so bloody cheap I only bought 10 oz I cannot see this as a way to make substantial silver purchases but like ebay silver spoons it all helps.

I am the same, I expect a gradual rise with increasing volatility, the rise in the last two months fits in with this expectation as would a £200 sudden plunge. I do not think gold can become the dog of an investment it was in the 80's and 90's unless the financial system is fixed, I don to believe that to be possible if I am wrong and it does turn out the system is OK it would be a better outcome for me overall even though my investments would be halved or worse.

“I made a fortune getting out too soon” J P Morgan I found this one of his as well while looking for the above. Was JPM a bit confused, or hypocritical or thinking of someone else when he said this? "Of all forms of tyranny the least attractive and the most vulgar is the tyranny of mere wealth, the tyranny of plutocracy” JPMorgan

Bullish IMO a silver spike and crash at the end of a gold run is usual is it not?

IMO If you are certain of economic collapse you should not trade but should aquire gold, silver and anything that can be bartered. The 2000 low in the gold price was an extreme low and was IMO caused primarily by the new rising economic powers unlike those in the past choosing to accumulate American debt instead of gold. The fourfold increase in value has got gold to more or less the value it should be in normal times; IMO it is still a screaming buy if you believe your fiat currency will fail.

When We Have Gold We Are in Fear, When We Have None We Are in Danger - English Proverb

Well worth a read IMO especially if you are tempted to believe the green shoots fairytale.

Thanks, this stuff is not easy to find. I am a newbie to this but my interpretation of these data:- 1. earnings have collapsed by about 90% but dividends have not been reduced by anything like that amount. 2. The quoted P/E average does not show this collapse because it is averaged over 10 years 3. Dividend yield has more than doubled since 2000 but is still lower than at the 1929 minimum Irrational Exuberance seems and understatement.

I have calculated performance since 1999 and it matches this graph almost exactly $1000 would have become $3703 I would like to calculate the return if I had stayed with the dow however I am finding it difficult to find historic dividend return figures infact all I have found after a good half hour of googling is a quote "Dividends on the Dow fell from 3.94% to 1.47% in the period 1990 to the peak at 1999" A 1.47% return does seem to be very poor it suggests that at that time for many if not most stock market pension funds charges would consume all the income generated by the share portfolio; I am not surprised it is a figure that is not well publisized. Does anyone know where I can get historic yearly dividend return figures for the dow?, historic dividend return figures for ftse indexes as well would be brilliant. I have done the calculation with assumed dividend return figures but it would be nice to have actual figures. $1000 becomes 1.5% - $849 2% - $897 3% - $997 4% - $1106 5% - $1223

There are three Victoria heads, young, jubilee and old and I think four QE2 heads. The george and the dragon tail is also used on victorian and pre victorian crowns - these are large coins nearly one oz silver. The beauty of the design is much more apparent on these than on the small sov.

+1

Sovereigns are by far the best IMO No GCT Proper historic coin at bullion prices Recognized the world over Not too big - important if prices go up substantially as they may well do if fiat money implodes.

Because the silver stockpile has been largely used up by industry I suspect there is not enough mined silver in existance now for silver to be used as the loose change money in a traditional bimetallic monetary system. Perhaps silver is too useful to be used as money

No way Jose - the more they know now the more they will be prepared - they will afterall be the ones who have to sort out this paper money debt mess.

I think it's an important statement and will be seen as such - maybe not yet. Anyway I am saving in gold if gold does go parabolic it will be risky then what is there as a safe saving medium? Has anyone any suggestions?

+1

I think so:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law According to the economist George Selgin in his paper "Gresham's Law": As for Gresham himself, he observed "that good and bad coin cannot circulate together" in a letter written to Queen Elizabeth on the occasion of her accession in 1558. The statement was part of Gresham's explanation for the "unexampled state of badness" England's coinage had been left in following the "Great Debasements" of Henry VIII and Edward VI, which reduced the metallic value of English silver coins to a small fraction of what that value had been at the time of Henry VII. It was owing to these debasements, Gresham observed to the Queen, that "all your fine gold was convayed out of this your realm."[3] Gresham made his observations of good and bad money while in the service of Queen Elizabeth, with respect only to the observed poor quality of the British coinage. The previous monarchs, Henry VIII and Edward VI, had forced the people to accept debased coinage by means of their legal tender laws. Gresham also made his comparison of good and bad money where the precious metal in the money was the same. He did not compare silver to gold, or gold to paper.

I think so:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law According to the economist George Selgin in his paper "Gresham's Law": As for Gresham himself, he observed "that good and bad coin cannot circulate together" in a letter written to Queen Elizabeth on the occasion of her accession in 1558. The statement was part of Gresham's explanation for the "unexampled state of badness" England's coinage had been left in following the "Great Debasements" of Henry VIII and Edward VI, which reduced the metallic value of English silver coins to a small fraction of what that value had been at the time of Henry VII. It was owing to these debasements, Gresham observed to the Queen, that "all your fine gold was convayed out of this your realm."[3] Gresham made his observations of good and bad money while in the service of Queen Elizabeth, with respect only to the observed poor quality of the British coinage. The previous monarchs, Henry VIII and Edward VI, had forced the people to accept debased coinage by means of their legal tender laws. Gresham also made his comparison of good and bad money where the precious metal in the money was the same. He did not compare silver to gold, or gold to paper.

+1 Means big smackdown is probably due soon if you think the market is manipulated.

Jetstram Gold over time holds value but gains purchasing power in deflationary periods and loses purchasing power in inflationary periods this has happened over and over again throughout centuries , the only exception is the 1970's inflation when gold rebounded after being manipulated lower by the great western powers in the London gold pool price supression scheme. Mish is a deflationist I think he knows history shows deflation is good for gold - he says gold may lose dollar value in his predicted deflation but will gain purchasing power. Hyperinflation - anyting of value is better than money - in that situation gold is best but it may be so good the government requisitions it.

+1 except I was alive then though do not remember Nixon leaving the gold standard- I do remember people were much more worried about the financial mess the uk was in the 70's than they are now and people were genuinely worried. There was a Labour government in the 70's that had spent too much that is almost a repeat but the worry that existed then of some sort of economic collapse looming is not present now .

Leverage is often silly and indeed rash. Holding gold is historically about as conservative and unrash as it's possible to be and even if its a loser - its just about the only thing thats guaranteed to hold some value.

I have got used to it - understand the fundamentals and wait - gold certainly takes it's time. I think the real point is the alternative mainstream saving media are rubbish. And the only other way is by being clever and swapping from from one fashionable asset to the other earlier than the crowd; thats difficult even with Dr Bubb giving his not inconsiderable investing experience for nothing.