ConvertedGoldBug

Ok, just having a browse around CoinInvestDirect.com

I'm a total newbie when it comes to real physical precious metals (as mentioned in my previous posts).

So just as an example, can someone explain to me the difference between the following:-

1oz gold bullion bar (31.10 Gramm)

999/1000 purity

£479.02

1oz South African Krugerrand 1 Ounce 2008 (SPECIAL) (31.10 Gramm)

917/1000 purity

£481.89

The Krugerrand is a couple of pounds more expensive than the bullion bar, however it also seems less purity.

Is the coin more expensive just because it is a coin (i.e. money)?

Or is it because of it's "collectable" status?

I presume it'd be easier to spend a coin than a bullion bar in the shops, even though they are both just Gold?

Or have I missed something?

You have Etf's, if you have large sums there it might make more sense to use Goldmoney or Bullionvault because it is at least allocated to you not held by some institution that likes to short gold or silver that does not really exist, best of all you can buy in much smaller amounts from 1 gramme.

If you make a profit using them you could realise that profit and buy physical?.

 

Remember Etf's charge you a buying and selling commission usually around £12 so not worth buying small amounts or trying to pound cost average.You can also only trade them in market hours not 24/7 !.

I have approx 75% of my investments (ISA's and Pension) in Precious Metal ETF's (which comprise Gold, Silver, Platinum and Palladium).

The remainder is in mining funds.

Looking to invest April's ISA allowance into a Silver ETF

To be honest, I don't really know why I would WANT to buy physical bullion or coins.

Yes, they'd be nice to hold and look at.

Yes, they'd be another diversification of my investments.

But I am investing with the remit that investing in precious metals is a good way to MAKE money at the moment.... rather than buying the actual metals themselves and treating them AS money.

Are people only holding these with the frame of mind that there is going to be a systematic banking failure or something, and that only these will be of any use in an apocalyptic senario?

I personally don't believe that would happen. That would be like the end of the world... every person on the planet's investments (pensions, cash etc.) gone!!! Would lead to riots, wars, total breakdown in society etc. Central banks would be more inclined to print money to prevent that happening, leading to hyper-inflation.

So other than the risk of the ETF not being backed by the physical metals (which they say they are), surely at some point you have to convert your gold/silver bullion/coins back into fiat money in order to spend it?

So to come back to my original question, I think it is reading all the discussions about gold and world financial crisis events from various sources that is kind of "brainwashing" me into thinking I should hold some percentage of my wealth physical metals. In which case, yes I would only be treating them as an "investment".

Hi,

Right, I'm just going to start reading this thread through from the beginning, but if anyone can summarise the following into a few sentences, that would be a great help.

Currently have gold/silver/PM ETF's, some mining funds, etc. and think I'd like to buy some physical coins.

Looking at both gold and silver coins.

The research I'm looking for is what coins to get, and where to get them from.

Do the coins come in 1oz weights, or are they more than this?

If they're 1oz, then for the sake of rounding in this example, it'll be £500 for one gold coin, and £10 for one silver coin.

So if I buy one gold coin, what should I get? Gold Eagle, Britannia, Maple, Sovereign, Krugerand?

I'm getting the impression that Maples and Krugerands are more popular.

Also Sovereigns don't incur Capital Gains Tax in the UK on selling(?)

Should I stick to one type of coin? Or get a Krugerand, and then a Sovereign, and then something else?

Are some coins easier to sell than others? If so, then why? They're all made of gold!!!

Then there's silver... I'd probably go for half the amount I would spend in gold, so lets say for £250 I'd get about 20-ish coins. What should I go for here? Philharmonikers?

And finally, where should I buy them? (I am based in the UK)

Seems like a few suggestions like GoldMoney, CoinInvestDirect etc.

Can I order small amounts (say £500 worth of something per month)? How are they delivered (secure postage service)? Will the delivery service know what they are delivering, seeing as they'll know where I live (paranoia alert!!!)

Perhaps this would be better as a new thread somewhere (if the Mods wanted to move this)? A thread dedicated to actual physical purchases and dealers etc?

EDIT: Should also mention that I'd only be spending a few thousand (maybe 5k max), and would like to take delivery of these... so wouldn't be thinking of storing vast amounts with BullionVault etc.

I'm sorry, but I think that's due a extra special response.

 

 

 

Fantastic!!!!!

That's certainly put a smile on my face first thing on a Saturday morning

The only counter-argument to this that I feel is worth considering is the simple one of supply and demand. If silver costs $20 an ounce, it makes sense to use it in solder, low-resistance circuitry and in antibacterial medical and home products. If it costs $40 manufacturers (of end products) look at alternatives.... and if it costs $60 they positively scramble for alternatives. Of course, higher prices also drive more mining ... and therefore is this quite an elastic product that can't cope with such a high increase in price (demand falling, supply increasing)? Unfortunately I'm no chemist or "uses of Silver" guru so don't know if there *are* any alternatives to Silver in the applications in which it's typically used today.

I have no idea of the answer to this, however I could hazard a guess by suggesting how many ounces of silver are used in each product. For example, if one ounce of silver is used over 10 products, then the price increase of the product to the consumer only need increase by $2 to cover the increase in cost of materials.

Also, if industrial demand weakens, how much of the slack would be compensated by investment demand? (since silver is money, just like gold is).

PS: I just worked out the value of my investment in 2016 if silver was $600..... in my dreams

There are some threads like that,

 

But perhaps I should start another one in honor of all the new members.

Is there enough interest here?

That could be a good idea.

I'd be interested in putting some small amounts in a few select juniors.

And Goldfinger asked about this yesterday.

The trouble with trawling back through old threads is wondering how up-to-date any suggestions and recommendations are, and what the latest prospects are.

Maybe even categories into countries/exchanges that stocks are listed on, for those that don't have the facilities (or expertise) to invest in foreign markets.

I don't think I will sell mine at all, but my position is probably slightly different in that I have a comparatively small percentage of holdings in physical compared to mining equities. I syphon off equity profits to buy physical on occasion, partly as a precaution in case things get truly catastrophic, but mainly because it's sooooo shiny.

 

If I were to sell, it would probably be to a bullion dealer and it would be once the price has gone over $2000 (ie public mania phase). I suppose there are arguments to say that selling direct to the public during this phase would yield the best profits, as they will pay over the odds to get in on the game. However, the risks could be massive, even if you use (the very dodgy IMOP) e-bay.

 

I'd feel safer taking the hit below spot to a bullion dealer and selling in small clumps on the way up. I think when the time comes though, I'll have great difficulty parting from my shiny precious , that's why I'm mainly in mining shares, far easier to sell!

Ok, this could lead into another question, but as I'm currently holding ETF's (yes, I know the hardcore people's opinions on these), how is that any different if i'm expecting to sell into the rising market, rather than on the way down... where it could be discovered that not all the value of the ETF is backed by physical?

I mean, I could carry on with ETF's until the things get really dire, and then sell and convert to physical, or I could just make a bucket load in ETF's and sell and keep the cash (and but a gallon of petrol with the proceeds )

Question to all those who hold physical gold and silver (i.e. personally held, rather than with Bullionvault etc.)

How and when would you envisage selling your coins?

Would you sell into a rising market, before the peak?

Would you sell using Ebay? Or some other coin dealer?

And if you left it too late, and sold after a peak, when prices were falling, how would you guarantee being able to sell them, since people might hold off buying if they are seeing prices continually going downwards? And coin dealers might stop buying, since they'd be using their own money, and may not wish to make purchases if the market is falling and they couldn't forsee getting a better return on their expenditure.

I'm thinking of getting physical (oo-er missus), since my only holdings so far are in ETF's. Not sure I'd go entirely physical (I have holdings in ISA's and SIPP's), but with some spare cash, I could maybe spend a few thousand just for diversification.

I will be doing some selling over $1,000. Indeed, I have done some light selling of some sprinting gold juniors,

and am reallocating the capital to:

 

+ Hong Kong property, and

+ Some laggards (amongst the Juniors) that I think still have great potential

 

In fact, this process means selling almost $100,000 worth of stock per week over the past 2-3 weeks,

and reallocating that capital- It is mostly leaving my stock trading account, and finding its way into

HK property.

Hi DrBubb,

I have a question, and this is similar to something I asked a few weeks ago on HPC.

As you're a professional stock trader, presumably you know all the ins and outs of leverage and shorting etc., as well as your obvious knowledge and research into juniors etc.

So my question is why sell parts of your portfolio to buy property?

I think you said HK property is currently going up about 1% per week?

But surely you've got fees and costs involved in buying property... and then all the hassles of finding tennants to pay the rent (mortgage?)... and the associated hassles of having to ensure the properties are maintained and problems sorted out (e.g. central heating breaks down)... and then the fees associated with selling the property if you forsee a market downturn...

Surely your trading accounts are more liquid when it comes to buying/selling than property is?

And I recall you stating one of your portfolios is up 1000% in 2-3 years(?), which is magnificent compared to the returns of 1% per week on property (~52% per year, excluding the fact that each week's 1% gain is on a larger amount due to the previous week's increase).

I posted a similar question on HPC regarding Joe Public's lack of knowledge or understanding of investments other than property, hence the reason over there that there seems to be people in the UK, aware of the downturn in the market, now looking for any countries in the far flung corners of the world where property is still cheap... and willing to "invest" their money something so illiquid in another country when they could "invest" by other means from their own PC with an internet connection, and buy and sell at the click of a finger...

Just my thoughts, and would really like some insight into this way of thinking...

Bubb, I have no mining shares yet, only physical. I was thinking about opening an ISA and buying mining shares through it. How restricted would I be because of it being an ISA? I don't know much about it, any links on GEI on this topic? I mean, I listen to FSN/CWR etc. and hear about all these good stocks (with good potential), but could I actually buy them here in the UK through an ISA? Cheers, GF.

Unfortunately you cannot hold AIM stocks in an ISA

From the HM Revenue & Customs website:

"Qualifying investments – shares listed on AIM

We have been asked whether shares officially listed on both the Alternative Investment Market (AIM) and another stock exchange are qualifying investments for PEPs and the ISA stocks and shares component. The general rule is that a share is a qualifying investment for PEPs and the ISA stocks and shares component if it is officially listed on a recognised stock exchange and (if acquired after 6 October 2005), the 5% test is satisfied. The AIM is not a Recognised Stock Exchange, therefore shares that are officially listed only on AIM are not qualifying investments for PEPs and the ISA stocks and shares component. However, shares that are officially listed on AIM and are also officially listed on a another stock exchange that is a Recognised Stock Exchange are qualifying investments for PEPs and the ISA stocks and shares component."

However, you can, I believe, put AIM stocks into a SIPP

There are funds available, which I've got, such as M&G "Gold & General", Investec "Global Gold" or CF Ruffer Baker Steel Gold (juniors), which are ISA compliant.

Not sure about the ISA rules for individual stocks on foreign exchanges.

click on 'my controls' top right menu and look for update avatar in the left hand menu pane.

Cheers, didn't notice "My Controls", so was only looking around in my Profile

Like my new Silver Bull avatar?

Hey guys, how to I set my avatar?

I've added a picture in my profile to Personal Photo, but I can't see a bit for the avatar...

I realise that should the silver market crash, it will seriously collapse.

Narco, in your opinion what do you think would make the silver market crash?

Would it be as a result of a gold crash?

Or could something completely independent make silver crash while gold still carried on upwards?

And from your retirement comment, if the silver market collapsed, do you think it would take years to recover?

That is some pretty spectacular bouncing, you have to admit ...

Yes indeedy... I'll happily trade in some of my gold for those...

I wonder if the BBC will report it on the main news if Gold does breach 1,000. Surely they'll be able to sandwich it in between the dire news of the banks, houses, jobs, higher petrol prices and general inflation.

 

Of course, if there is any news on Maddie all these issues will get pushed to one side.

 

Priorities my boy...

The thing is, even if they do report this, and it gets into the papers (esp. tabloids), would Joe Public know the significance?

They'll know about mortgages, sub-prime, price of oil etc., but if they see stories about the price of gold, do they interpret this as an "investment" opportunity (bear in mind a fairly high percentage might only be familiar to high street savings accounts and the concept of getting interest on their money), or are they just going to gather together anything they might have of value to try and sell it to make some money to pay off their debts?

What happened before when this became news worthy?

I was thinking about yesterday's correction, and wondering if anyone thinks it was stronger because the previous few days had seen such weak smackdowns at NY opening time... maybe they'd held off for a few days, in order to go for a bigger smackdown? Or doesn't it work like that?

These people don't understand at all. It's not a commodity bubble. It's a fiat currency collapse.

 

Talk of gold's demise is a joke. We're still above last week's prices!!

Indeed... didn't prices of everything fall across the board yesterday?

So why do they pick on gold... hmmm, jealousy or lack of understanding spring to mind.

Without sounding like a party pooper, is there any chance this thread can concentrate on Gold etc., rather than discussing the HPC exodus, and joking about threads on that site?

There's always a fine line between the concept of "forum discussion" and "chat room discussions", and one thing I always get fed up with is reading forum threads that decend into "chat" territory.

Considering the cause of the HPC exodus was because of slanging matches, I wouldn't want to see pages of similar content over here.

Just my 2p worth

You could just tell me not to read those posts, but I don't know until I've read them

Goldfinger,

I was wondering what your percentage split is between gold and silver?

Also, i've read in various places that Silver ETFs are easier for people because of the logistics of storing large quantities of silver considering it is so much cheaper than gold... but why is this recommended if other people say that it is better to hold physical gold instead of "paper" gold?

What would happen in a potential gold confiscation scenario? Would gold lose it's value? And for how long before recovering? And if gold loses it's value, then presumably Silver would as well (and the other non-monetary precious metals like platinum or palladium)? But if Silver is money as well as Gold, would Silver get confiscated?

I'm thinking silver is going to be my ISA investment for 7k in an ETF in April (already holding large quantities of precious metal ETFs, and wanted to pick on an individual metal rather than a "basket").

Wow!

71 posts in this thread already since last night!!!

Maybe this could bring some more contributors to the other sections of this forum.

GEI is a great forum for investment education, it only drawback being that sometimes it's possible to see tumbleweeds rolling through it from so few and infrequent postings.

Here's hoping some of the other threads and subjects receive even a small increased percentage as this Gold thread is getting.

Hi,

Just had a look through this thread... seeing as most of the posts are quite old, early ones tend to concentrate on the "green energy" theme which I guess is what this forum centred around back then.

A few links to sites for Goldbugs in there as well.

However, my other area of interest for investment at the moment is Agriculture.

Does anyone know of any good sites for research and daily news in this area?

I've got some favourite precious metals and general resource websites, but nothing really with lots of information in Agriculture... just tends to get sub-sectioned off in sites that concentrate more on gold/oil/base metals etc.

Would love some equivalents like the Goldbugs sites, with research, analysis, predictions etc... but I guess there aren't as many Wheatbugs or Cornbugs out there.... lol

But from what I can see, I do get the impression that several commentators are suggesting that this is a good area to be in over the next few years... so maybe it's just a bit too early...