id5

Jim Sinclair was saying yesterday that the new floor is $1045.

2. There is a floor in gold at $1045 where India purchased from the IMF. China is in to "saving face." and therefore more likely to buy the remaining IMF gold at $1044 than to step up in price.

Surely the floor is at INR 49250.85 as the Indians were after all the ones buying it. If the USD falls or gains then the floor moves up and down as perception comes from where you are standing and that gold today would have a floor of INR 52520.42.

Thrust is Go, all engines. It's looking good.

Do you think that there will be the normal seasonal pull back in spring next year cgnao or do you think it will skip it?

"The cheque is in the post......." says Fergus Wilson.

 

Mortgage arrears of couple who rode the buy-to-let boom estimated at £350,000

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12...ed-350-000.html

 

OK, the source isn't the most reliable but here's the first bit of smoke prior to the '2010 Wilson housefire'.

A prime slot awaits them in the BTLers graveyard next to the gravestones of Phil Spencer, Inside Track and Grant Bovey.

They are with Mortgage Express, now there is a lovely bunch of sharks

Hopefully Mortgage Express have a better accounting system than they did in the 80's, we were with them then and had to get a court to order them to accept how much was owed before we could sell out house. They tried everything they could to take over the house before we proved them wrong in court.

You could only assume it was real even if you were an expert. And an expert dealer can always pass it onto another person.

 

A determined person with knowledge could produce a less valueable coin that would be next to impossible to seperate from the real thing without analysis or damage to the coin, which is why you need the paperwork when you sell the coins

Not for $50 they couldn't and most coin collectors will know where they can sell a good fake for more than $50, there is a market for fakes as well as the real thing.

I think about 50 meters of 1mm diameter wire. Is it 999? Is bairds the best place to get it from? Does it cost much more than bars for the same weight?

 

I was thinking of 3 cores for the ballanced interconnects and whatevers left for the speaker cables, which I could increase if it didnt look thick enough.

 

thanks id5

For that sort of length of sleeved wire try hificollective I have used them before or AudioNote I haven't tried them yet.

Evening all. Has anyone used Bairds to buy silver wire? http://goldline.co.uk/industrialProductsPage.page

 

I was considering getting some 999 hopefully, to make hifi cables.

I buy silver wire from a couple of different companies azael, I will assume you are talking a round cross-section but how long and what diameter?

although i'm not an expert i would think 1000 degrees is doubtful in a house fire - maybe in isolated hot spots but you have to be unlucky for it to be in the same place as your gold.

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It would as you say aardvark be unlucky if your gold was in one of those spots. This data was taken from one of the engineering manuals that I have and maybe of interest to some. Essentially, if you put you coin under the floor the chances of damage are even less.

Does anyone know what happens to gold bullion coins involved in a housefire?

I've always wondered w.r.t. my stash, but has anyone got any specific knowledge on this?

 

Gold has a melting point of 1064 Celcius, so kruggers and britannias should be alloys that melt in that ballpark temperature range. Is that hotter than a typical housefire?

 

Also, would smoke damage make bullion coins unidentifiable or unsellable? Could a fire-damaged coin still be sold for a decent % of spot?

 

Thanks in advance

It depends where the gold is stored. Most parts of a house fire do not get above 600 Celsius but the glowing heart, deep in the middle of the fire can get to 1300 Celsius. If you coins are in there then they will lose any numismatic value. Even a molten lump of gold though can be sold within a 5% of spot but your fiat paper will be ashes.

Can someone enlighten me as to the circumstances which led to 1000oz silver affording the av. UK house back in 1980?

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That will be the infamous Hunt Brothers and the Silver Pool when they tried to corner the market.

Indeed. Read it and weep:

 

Being the first government to have any sort of paper currency, foreigners understood nothing about it, and some even considered it a form of magic. Regardless of persistent inflation after 1272 paper currency backed by limited releases of coins remained as the standard means of currency until 1345. Around 1345 rebellions, economic crisis and financial mismanagement of the paper currency destroyed the public’s confidence in the bills.[6]

 

Paper money wasn’t extremely easy to adopt because it was a foreign concept in the beginning and it wasn’t a precious metal, it was just a piece of paper. To initiate the transition from other forms of compensation to paper currency the government made refusing to accept the bill punishable by death.

 

Sounds familiar.

The Mongols were not the first government to have any sort of paper currency.

It was during the Tang dynasty (608AD - 907AD) around 800AD some 400 years before Khublai Khan that the first paper money for general circulation appeared. Real paper money similar to that of today was first produced about 1000AD by the Sung dynasty but it is generally accepted that the opening of the government Bureau of Exchange in 1023AD was the real starting point for paper money as we would see its function today.

The Yuan dynasty that started with Khublai as Khan issued a high quantity of paper money from 1270 onwards but it was in the Ming dynasty that the government started the real money printing and caused the value of the paper note to decline between the 1370’s to 1440’s. Allegedly a 1000 cash note was equivalent to an ounce of silver in 1375 and by 1440 the rate was over a thousand 1000 cash notes per ounce (I have only ever seen this on one reference so as I say, allegedly). Depreciation of notes also occurred earlier in Chin dynasty but to lesser degree.

In all of these dynasties, copper, silver and gold in both various coin and weight formz was used as money alongside paper. I have never seen any reference to the users of paper notes being forced to accept them but there are writings on the notes such as “The counterfeiter shall be decapitated” along with various rewards for informing on counterfeiters in taels of silver.

BBC London evening news....

 

CASH FOR GOLD - Dont sell your gold to these dodgy CASHYOURGOLD type companies.

 

Entering mainstream....

There are a lot more people entering the traditional jewellers now and offereing gold for sale now rather than going to these companies. The fast money has been made.

seasonality??

 

 

Those days are over!

I pray to the Gods of all of the posters that it is not, for the last few years seasonality in PM's has helped to pay for the families holiday

Good point. I've only bought a handful of these things and all came with certificates of authenticity stating fineness. At 10GBP a pop I imagine wouldn't be worth folks while to forge?

 

But your right best to be sure what exactly it is your getting. That's why I was wondering if investors might favour recognisable and well known bullion coins that state their fineness on the coin itself?

If you are an investor then stick to the recognisable and well known bullion coins you will be better off in the long run. Forget certificates and such like these have been forged all over the place and they are only worth the paper they are written on. A common one for Sovereigns are certificates relating to the coin being a part of the consignment of the ship Douro.

If you want to collect for numismatic reason then forged certificates add another layer of interest.

Im continually adding to my physical silver stash and I notice on ebay UK that 1oz commemorative sterling silver coins from wee commonwealth islands etc are regularly selling for 10% under spot. They don't state their silver content on the actual coin but come with a certificate stating the purity and weight. Any of you chaps reckon these are a good buy? My thoughts are silver is silver. But maybe folks just prefer the well known bullion coins and are not interested in such things even at a discount?

Some of these commemeratives are Sterling 92.5% and a few of them are 50% silver but there are a lot that are nickel silver and are exactly the same as the real silver version. The 1977 Queen's Silver Jubilee Commemorative Crown comes to mind as one of these that came as a Sterling proof but all the rest were nickel silver. Be very careful with what you ar buying.

Nah, IR rises would implode the 'consumer economy' in the US and UK. I reckon it'll be 2011 before we see any rises in US/UK.

Until then its printy, printy time then

It's different this time! you think?

 

$16.9 oz.

 

The shorts will need to be out this afternoon... or is it game over?.

With the interest rate rise from the RBA it may be game over for the Autumn unless the US, UK and EU CB's all start printing like crazy otherwise they will have to raise interest rates instead. If they don’t then the price of PM’s will rise faster as the value of their currencies fall.

The ECB is expected to raise its rate by March but on this news may raise sooner. Australia tried to protect itself from recession by not following the other currencies and keeping a real positive interest rate but their currency is just getting stronger, this has got to hurt their export market but reduces inflation on imports. The Aussie CB must be seeing quickly rising and imported inflation for them to raise the rate this early.

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Guys, may I remind you that the Romans are the enemy, not the Judean People's Front, OK?

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No there not! The enemy is the Peoples Front of Judeah

FWIW I find all the photographs on this thread tedious and lower the level of debate. Just my view. I hope we don't get lots of personal arguments between posters contaminating what is otherwise a great forum.

 

I'm back in the UK soon and will inspect my sovs from CID. Has anyone here ever got a dud one (fake) from CID? I did contemplate getting a FIsch coin checker but they are out of stok at moment it would appear. Any clues on how else to check a sov? Or are CID so reliable I don't need to worry?

Hi Wanderer, check out the Short Guide to Buying Coins thread http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....ost&p=49117

Fair enough, I'm glad that you can make a few bob with FX plays. That takes a fair amount of nouse and i don't really have it! I presume you may be using Gmoney? You can move fairly quickly from cash to metals. I'd personally be worried about not having exposure to metals if/when the big move up occurs, you may be able to move quick enough, or you may not. I think we'll see some fireworks relatively shortly either way.

Yes, I have a GM account as I said in my post. I am currently 38% FX via multi-currency accounts, 38% GM and 24% physical. On the seasonal downturn next spring I will go to 60-70% physical. If there is no downturn then I will hit the button on GM's physical devlivery option and collect from Bairds or the vault myself in a mix of gold & silver.

... I have to say I have no trust anymore in any paper markets so it's bullion only for me from now on.

I gave up on trying making money in shares from either tipsters or by using my own analysis. I am still making money in FX and will continue to do so whilst profits are there but I am keeping the account value steady and moving profits from it into PM's via GM and then into physical.

Could I have this one logarithmic please?

Your wish is my command, only happy to help.

We are discussing the use of gold and silver in a SHTF scenario not the universal daily use of PMs, your statement in your post was

I have read many posts on the subject of SHTF use of silver and gold in daily transactions for groceries etc. IMO it will not happen.

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Yes, this is the whole point as this is where most people get their food.

 

There is a clear difference between the universal daily use of PMs and the situation where a shop owner (or even thousands of shop owners) will trade with you for gold to cash to goods. State employees are paid in fiat - they have to eat and if the supply chain and credit system collapses then we are in deep shit. That is why it will be made to function long after it seems to be a farce. I am not suggesting that there will not be a dual economy - of course there will be - there always is and PMs and stable foreign currencies will buy you anything, I am merely pointing out that most people will have to use the government fiat as they have no choice.

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Key State employees, like the politicians and military forces already come under the National Emergency system and will get their rations from that distribution source. The National Emergency system has been in place since the cold war and has not been dismantled just reduced in scale. Any other State employees will be in the same boat as the rest.

Take a look at the graphs of the UK food security and the worked example from this report https://statistics.defra.gov.uk/esg/reports...oodsecurity.pdf from DEFRA. Note also that when this report was produced they do not evaluate and associated little risk with economic crisis, perhaps they believed that the risk of severe economic stress is too low. Their worked example using 2004 data shows that the UK is only 74.2% self sufficient in food.

Iceland collapsed whilst other countries could still help them by paying for imports because their 2 tonnes of gold reserves could not support them. If UK fiat collapses on its own then the country can pay for the 25% with the gold reserves that Gordon has left because it will not be able to pay by selling bonds. The UK will need 140 tonnes of gold per year at today’s gold value to purchase that 25% and the same amount in oil to keep the country going, with other costs such as the important state employees, it will soon be eaten up. If two or more large countries fail then the world may not be able to help as quickly as is needed. The government will not be able to purchase food imports, panic will set in, Tesco’s will have empty shelves and those without the means to pay the independents for food will suffer.

It's the end of the quarter so a couple of house price graphs from me as well to compliment the ones from GF

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"Groupspeak" on here currently has been that everyone is expecting a big crash and the dollar to strengthen. I am almost on my own expecting gold to take off now, those that believe it is about to take off are in the minority.

Not me, I haven't yet got my thoughts under control on this but IMHO I think the dollar may crash and there is a possibility that it will before the Euro.

The USD is becoming the top carry trade currency in people’s minds whereas before it was the Yen. Both the Yen and USD have been getting stronger with the need to unwind carry trades. Yen has been getting stronger as the trades are paid off by buying Yen but I don’t think that this is the case with USD. I think that the USD is being accepted as payment for commodity currencies, stock, companies and rights but where the value of the purchased item is not in USD. Its odd news items like the Chinese are buying AUD bonds with dollars or stock purchases of mines in Africa. It’s almost as if the USD is being emptied from within forming a hollow shell rather than slices of value taken away from the visible outside.

There again this may be complete rubbish and one of the brighter people on this site that understands international finance and capital flows will come up with the obvious that I have missed and negate my immature theory!

From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xnIFzP2bTY

There is a pub in Derby that accepts PM's, the owner even has signs outside saying he buys gold and silver.