The Mad Hatter

I guess if we are to worry about anything it would be RB's claim that it will be manufactured by knowledge gained from the Large Hadron Collider.

I'm not convinced that we should be worried about RBs claim to anything to do with gold at present.

Wake up everyone there is a commercial signal failure going on the price is going a lot higher in the immediate future.

Got me popcorn, thanks, and just waiting for the show to start. Hope I don't need to go for a pee again before it does, though.

New records are so humdrum these days, not only are there no rockets, there's not even a murmur. $1118.50/toz Yay!

Doing a bit better in Turdling today but still not really gone in to orbit.

He really is a complete muppet, we are so far from the man on the street getting in!

I've yet to hear anyone outside this group and a few on HPC to mention it.

I've only met one person in RL who was aware of physical and one who has shares in a gold ETF.

Scarcely a gold rush at the moment.

If all fails, you can always eat it.

Yum

(you can tell you're a real goldbug if you wait to reclaim it afterwards)

IS THIS GOLD GOING MAINSTREAM ??????? I dont remember IC doing this before !!!

It certainly looks that way.

Won't be long before we'll be off to the races...

'Cos it's all getting a bit scary? Like the scenario for which we bought gold is happening?

Should I be concerned that I am waiting for a certain number to reach the number of the beast?

(and hopefully exceed it).

I don't think we're even close to a real mania yet. All this is going to be quite dragged out.

Has anyone heard any of the following statements re. gold when at a party, being driven in a cab, at work or anywhere else where people spray their opinions around like confetti?

"You got in at the right time"

"You'd better get in, you'll miss the boat"

"Are you in physical or an ETF?"

"I've got sovereigns, no CGT, see?"

and not forgetting

"Gold only ever goes up"

I haven't, so I don't think we are in the mania phase. In fact, I would say we are about 1/3 of the way into the media attention phase.

Has the Sun done an article a centrefold spread on how to get into gold? That will be one to look out for. They'll be selling ingots on gold chains in the back. (Ooops, sorry, they already do.)

5kg of gold and 2.5kg of silver is "worth" about £104,000. That would buy you a little studio flat. I bet the guy who buried it 1300 years ago was a wealthy man but would be disapointed how his investment had done over the last 1300 years! It goes to show how cheap gold and silver are now.

I disagree. I think he'd be staggered by the fact that it had:

• Hot and cold running water
• A privvy
• Magic lights
• An oven that doesn't need a fire
• Somewhere to have a bath more than once a month
• A cool place for storing your ale
• A cupboard where it is always winter
• Huge clear glass windows that you can see out of
• No damp
• No rats
• No black death
• A dedicated cart parking space

A bargain in exchange for a few bits of bling.

Interesting that we're at £20,000 to buy in New York though - most expensive on the board.

ya, well I will tell them where to collect their cgt. . .

It would be interesting to argue that CGT didn't apply as it was the currency that had devalued, not your assets that had increased...

I look at that and replace the word "Gold" with "Tech Stocks". I know the fundamentals are different but that page makes me even more sure of a pullback.

I would say this is a strong indicator of the media interest phase. I have met one person in RL who has invested in gold. How many have you met?

For most of the people I talk to or work with, gold simply isn't on their radar yet.

What, no-one mentioned £700 an ounce in NY on BV yet?

Or wait until there is brand new gold currency, then no CGT at all, since the amount of gold you own has not increased

And wouldn't you just bet that there would be a windfall tax on all gold holders!

This bunch of idiots would try anything to get their hands on some revenue.

You only pay CGT if you realise the profit in paper terms.

You don't hae to sell it all, do you?

 

Also, consider if you physically hold the gold and you bought it, then you can claim you gifted it and the perosn who received it (I think) only pay CGT on the price as it was when bought.. There are always ways around liabilities, I'm sure!

I think you'll get caught with the gifting bit unless you are married or in a civil partnership.

But good point that I don't have to sell it all.

I believe there is also some annual thing called bed and breakfasting that you can do around the 5th April.

How does a Gov make CGT in a bear market. Devalue the currency.

 

Rage.

A good point. Maybe I should bail out of gold when I hit the limit. That'll show them, the devaluing SOBs.

Any much higher and the missus and I will be in CGT territory. And I thought I f--ked up by buying in October!

This has all been covered before many times .

 

There currently is no department to report your purchases too!.

I think you will find that the relevant department is Revenue and Customs. Yes, dealers don't report their sales but Revenue and Customs can check their records for money-laundering purposes.

The Swiss will have no choice in the matter as UBS just found out when the US Federal Government came knocking on their door for information on US residents accounts.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

 

Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Wealthy U.S. clients of UBS AG are offering to settle their tax liabilities with the Internal Revenue Service before the Swiss bank’s possible disclosure of their names to government authorities, lawyers said.

 

Clients fear a U.S. probe of whether UBS fostered tax evasion by 17,000 customers who the Justice Department said failed to report income to the IRS. Those coming forward include descendants of Holocaust survivors whose families opened accounts decades ago, hoping for a safe haven to stow their assets as they fled Europe, lawyers said.

 

“We’re starting to get phone calls from U.S. citizens who say, ‘When these names get handed over, I’m in trouble,’” said Lawrence Horn, a defense attorney who said he represents several UBS clients. “People are nervous.”

Presumably they are nervous because they are tax evaders.

Again, to get to this stage with the gold holdings that people on this board possess (assuming you're not tax evaders, of course! ) , the government would have to criminalize the private holding of gold. They would also have to dismantle or neutralize the judicial system, as I'm sure people considerably richer than moi would take the matter of private gold seizure to the House of Lords.

Also, that quote referred to handing over records, not the gold holding itself. The UK government can get the records from BV anyway and will have records if you have exceeded the £5,000 and £10,000 limits for gold purchases from a dealer.

Taking this a bit further, the only way I can see that you could disappear from the radar completely is to have bought your gold in chunks of less than £5,000 per dealer for cash and then store it out of the banking system (which does increase the risk of robbery). eBay would leave a trail. However, if gold holding is declared illegal in this country, you would then have to leave and take your gold holding with you. In which case, you'd better not be one of those people who sweat a lot when you're under pressure

I was about to conceded that you and Bimble had exhausted my argument, but you’ve gone and proved my point for me.

 

The Government don’t want me to have uranium in Switzerland and therefore I am unable to do so.

 

Sorry, the link to www.Bullionuraniumvault.com seems to be down. I don't think it is legal for citizens to own golduranium. It is highly toxicterrorist currency as well as weakly radioactiveimmoral .

My point was that the uranium argument doesn't really hold water as I'm pretty sure that Uranium is not something that ordinary citizens are allowed to hold (or ever have been).

Conversely, gold isn't a poison and currently, it is legal to hold gold in the UK and Sovs and Brits are legal tender.

So to get to the position where my BV holdings are at risk, the UK government would have to declare the holding of bullion illegal.

In which case, BV gold and gold at home are both equally illegal. However, gold at home could also be removed by the scallies/geezers/chavs. Gold at home can also be seized by the goon squad.

Seizure of gold in Zurich would destroy the credibility of the Swiss government and Switzerland as a safe haven, a role it has carefully nurtured since the Middle Ages and codified with the Swiss Banking Act of 1934.

Under the principle of bank secrecy, privacy is statutorily enforced, with Swiss law strictly limiting any information shared with third parties, including tax authorities, foreign governments or even Swiss authorities, except when requested by a Swiss judge's subpoena. This law only permits a bank to share information with others in cases of severe criminal acts, such as identifying a terrorist's bank account. Any bank employee violating a client's privacy is punished quite severely by law.

Again, not impossible, but highly unlikely. Would a Swiss government that carried out such an action survive for long?

Yes, I agree that we are in uncharted waters and there are no options that are completely safe and foolproof. I'm in with BV but I am also considering a personal holding as well (if I can get hold of it). I think we can both agree that the situation would be close to martial law/dictatorship before things get that bad.

But then again, the gold price might collapse and we'll be sitting around like a bunch of numpties with a load of dotcom shares. I'll really be in the doghouse then!

They can do whatever they want as they are all in the same club. Keep your bullion safe and close by. All other "fools-gold" is someone else's promise to deliver.

 

Exhibit 1:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/206...h-and-guns.html

 

I think I've already mentioned that physical seizure by the UK government is possible with UK held assets. But I see it as extremely unlikely that the Swiss government would ruin their reputation as a safe haven to do the same thing.

 

Exhibit 2:

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/Sto...7897&page=1

 

Exhibit 3:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/25510

Yes, I agree that the US tends to be more intolerant.

Ultimately, having your gold close to you could also make it easier to separate from you by persons other than the government in ways which could be considerably less pleasant.

In summary, absolute safety is impossible to guarantee, only relative safety. And you can't take it with you!

I think you’re right, but,

 

Swap ‘Gold’ for ‘Uranium that can be used by Alqaeda to make dirty bombs for use against the UK and her allies’

 

Does it matter that your uranium is in Switzerland?

Sorry, the link to www.uraniumvault.com seems to be down. I don't think it is legal for citizens to own uranium. It is highly toxic as well as weakly radioactive.

If you can show me evidence that ordinary citizens have ever been entitled to own uranium, I'll concede the point.

Sorry, it's taken me a while to compose this, so these arguments may have already been covered.

BV is a Company registered in England & Wales. It doesn't matter where your gold is. If there is confiscation, BV will hand it over. The Swiss Government will not stop BV handing gold over to the UK government (?)

I think this is an important discussion, so let's take this a bit further. Perhaps other people more knowledgeable than me could chip in.

Physical Seizure

The physical gold is not held by BV, but by VIA MAT, which is a Swiss company. VIA MAT audits the gold and BV publish these daily audits on their web site.

BV could tell the UK government that I have gold (as do a lot of individuals who are considerably wealthier and probably more influential than me). But can the Government get hold of the gold? It isn't held in London but in a sovereign state with a long history of armed neutrality. You can't just wander into VIA MAT and say can we please have some of the gold in your vaults that belongs to some private individuals from the UK.

The economy of Switzerland is dependent on its banking system. What do you think allowing the UK to confiscate their gold from under their noses would do to their reputation? Do you not think it likely that the Swiss would tell the UK to take a hike? In which case, is the UK going to invade in order to recover this gold?

On this basis, I would discount physical seizure of Swiss-held gold as a possible option. Basically, if your gold is in Switzerland, the UK government cannot physically get hold of it.

If your gold is held in the UK, then the UK government could physically seize it. However, the situation would have to be pretty dire before that would happen, bordering on a state of emergency. Not impossible, though.

If your gold is held in the US, then the US government did legislate against holding private gold in 1933. However, the instances of actual seizure were very few and were all within the US. I think the biggest haul was from a non-US citizen on the basis of tax-evasion. Many people surrendered their gold at the official price, but many didn't (numbers presumably unknown).

Liquidation

If physical seizure isn't possible, the question then becomes whether the UK government could possibly force BV or me to liquidate my holdings in Zurich and repatriate the money. I guess this isn't impossible but is it likely? Again, this approach would only be possible if legal property rights to own gold bullion were outlawed in this country.

I suppose, in extremis, the government could arrest me if I refused to comply. Well, if people go to jail for not paying council tax, I can imagine being prepared to go to jail for the right to own gold. Would I be the first Auric martyr?

Before this happens, I would look out for articles in which gold bugs are demonised as:

• Hoarding wealth
• Non-patriotic
• Bringing down the financial system
• People of a certain race mentioned frequently in the Bible
• Terrorists

Which is why I don't have any holdings in London. I bought a few grams there by mistake but have sold those again on this latest uptick.

However, if there is gold confiscation, will there also be restrictions on travel that would prevent me going to Switzerland to pick the stuff up?