Pluto
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Posts posted by Pluto
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Crikey that's £650/toz
Not too shabby.
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The predictions for the UK housing market are getting more realistic recently. The newspapers have become lagging indicators to what is actually going on. Also, where did these fools arrive at 46%? Another figure plucked out of their backsides. Pluto's trough now revised from 50% to 70%.
http://www.independent.co.uk/money/mortgag...et-1213432.html
But how low could prices sink? It is from the City that the best answer may come. "The median prediction among traders is that from peak to trough we will see house prices fall 46 per cent. The height was reached in the third quarter 2007 when average UK house prices were around the £200,000 mark by 2010/2011. This is predicted to be £109,000," said Peter Sceats, director of real estate derivative broker Tradition Property.
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Crummy old UK houses are on sale to those abroad. The other side of this coin is the foreigners who bought into the UK ponzi housing are 50% down.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelne...-Euro-zone.html
"Likewise French and Spanish buyers are finding the weakness of the pound, coupled with our falling property prices, has made buying a property in Britain up to 50 per cent cheaper than two years ago."
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London House Prices in ounces of gold
Currently Nov 08
Average Cost: £382,951
Detached: £778,868
Semi-detached: £416,499
Terraced: £417,058
Flat: £315,339
Gold at c £575 per ounce
Average Cost: £382,951 = 666 ounces
Detached: £778,868 = 1350 oounces
Semi-detached: £416,499 = 723 ounces
Terraced: £417,058 = 725 ounces
Flat: £315,339 = 547 ounces
Still got a long way to drop imo
100 ounces not impossible from here. I think I had 200 as a target once upon a time.
But 100 ounces from 666 now . That makes gold in London houses from here still a potential 6 1/2- bagger. Ouch
100z for a london 3 bedder in not so shitty areas coming your way soon. That is what I reckon - the price in pounds is really meaningless as the pound is unstable and is collapsing.
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It's not exactly for that reason that I've posted my last time on there and signed up here yesterday, but it's shallow enough to suffice for now.
Going on from Goldfinger's point; I emailed Fionaulla a few months ago and suggested that she either knew at the time that the prediction she gave previously was incorrect (using the simple straight ruler method of forecasting) and was therefore a knave OR she wasn't very good at her job. No reply of course, but I felt better for it nonetheless.
First post. Treat me gently chaps. Is there an initiation ceremony I have to go through or what? I have a note from Mummy Paddles about allergies and a weak chest, if so...
Welcome to the dark side.
UK crummy property already down over 50% when bought in virtually any currencies apart from the terrible three. Icelandic Krone, Zimbabwe dollar, and British Pound. An elite club I might say.
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+++GOLD CELEBRATES CHRISTMAS IN THE UK WITH ANOTHER ALL TIME HIGH +++
Pound is toast, this just reinforces it.
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what just happened to the pound!?
EDIT:
EUR/GBP 0.92
GBP/USD 1.53
The pound is collapsing. It is having an Icelandic renaissance.
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So... has Hugh Hendry got it wrong?
Are things moving at a faster pace than he expected?
Or is this just a reactionary blip in the run-up to Christmas?
Interesting times. Glad I'm invested in gold. Part of me wishes more so... But part of me is expecting a pullback.
Hugh Hendry is going to lose his shirt on those war bonds. Deflation will not be tolerated.
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Not too shabby today. Another all time high versus the pound. No surprise there. Those fools who STR'd and did not protect themselves will soon only to able to afford a big mac and fries.
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Is The End Of The COMEX Nigh? By Andy Hoffman - http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1228061100.php
Last paragraph:
Before COMEX defaults we're likely to see another major investment house go under. Don't buy on the COMEX defaulting play - not yet anyway.
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Presumably they are nervous because they are tax evaders.
Again, to get to this stage with the gold holdings that people on this board possess (assuming you're not tax evaders, of course!
) , the government would have to criminalize the private holding of gold. They would also have to dismantle or neutralize the judicial system, as I'm sure people considerably richer than moi would take the matter of private gold seizure to the House of Lords.Also, that quote referred to handing over records, not the gold holding itself. The UK government can get the records from BV anyway and will have records if you have exceeded the £5,000 and £10,000 limits for gold purchases from a dealer.
Taking this a bit further, the only way I can see that you could disappear from the radar completely is to have bought your gold in chunks of less than £5,000 per dealer for cash and then store it out of the banking system (which does increase the risk of robbery). eBay would leave a trail. However, if gold holding is declared illegal in this country, you would then have to leave and take your gold holding with you. In which case, you'd better not be one of those people who sweat a lot when you're under pressure
Once upon a time a swiss bank account assured complete privacy. The fact that they did what the US federal government told them to do is the point you and many others are missing and the one I am trying to emphasize.
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I also believe that the Swiss would be loath to destroy an important part of their economy.
The Swiss will have no choice in the matter as UBS just found out when the US Federal Government came knocking on their door for information on US residents accounts.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home
Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Wealthy U.S. clients of UBS AG are offering to settle their tax liabilities with the Internal Revenue Service before the Swiss bank’s possible disclosure of their names to government authorities, lawyers said.
Clients fear a U.S. probe of whether UBS fostered tax evasion by 17,000 customers who the Justice Department said failed to report income to the IRS. Those coming forward include descendants of Holocaust survivors whose families opened accounts decades ago, hoping for a safe haven to stow their assets as they fled Europe, lawyers said.
“We’re starting to get phone calls from U.S. citizens who say, ‘When these names get handed over, I’m in trouble,’” said Lawrence Horn, a defense attorney who said he represents several UBS clients. “People are nervous.”
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Yes, I agree that the US tends to be more intolerant.
Ultimately, having your gold close to you could also make it easier to separate from you by persons other than the government in ways which could be considerably less pleasant.
In summary, absolute safety is impossible to guarantee, only relative safety. An you can't take it with you!
The Swiss "safe haven" is only safe because the western world (or USA) says it is. The Swiss banks are the very LAST place I would have any of my assets when the crap starts to fly.
We are about to go into unchartered waters; what worked before will probably no longer work in the future.
Ultimately, having your gold close to you could also make it easier to separate from you by persons other than the government in ways which could be considerably less pleasant.
At that stage we have far more pressing things to worry about than accumulated wealth.
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Sorry, it's taken me a while to compose this, so these arguments may have already been covered.
I think this is an important discussion, so let's take this a bit further. Perhaps other people more knowledgeable than me could chip in.
Physical Seizure
The physical gold is not held by BV, but by VIA MAT, which is a Swiss company. VIA MAT audits the gold and BV publish these daily audits on their web site.
BV could tell the UK government that I have gold (as do a lot of individuals who are considerably wealthier and probably more influential than me). But can the Government get hold of the gold? It isn't held in London but in a sovereign state with a long history of armed neutrality. You can't just wander into VIA MAT and say can we please have some of the gold in your vaults that belongs to some private individuals from the UK.
The economy of Switzerland is dependent on its banking system. What do you think allowing the UK to confiscate their gold from under their noses would do to their reputation? Do you not think it likely that the Swiss would tell the UK to take a hike? In which case, is the UK going to invade in order to recover this gold?
On this basis, I would discount physical seizure of Swiss-held gold as a possible option. Basically, if your gold is in Switzerland, the UK government cannot physically get hold of it.
If your gold is held in the UK, then the UK government could physically seize it. However, the situation would have to be pretty dire before that would happen, bordering on a state of emergency. Not impossible, though.
If your gold is held in the US, then the US government did legislate against holding private gold in 1933. However, the instances of actual seizure were very few and were all within the US. I think the biggest haul was from a non-US citizen on the basis of tax-evasion. Many people surrendered their gold at the official price, but many didn't (numbers presumably unknown).
Liquidation
If physical seizure isn't possible, the question then becomes whether the UK government could possibly force BV or me to liquidate my holdings in Zurich and repatriate the money. I guess this isn't impossible but is it likely? Again, this approach would only be possible if legal property rights to own gold bullion were outlawed in this country.
I suppose, in extremis, the government could arrest me if I refused to comply. Well, if people go to jail for not paying council tax, I can imagine being prepared to go to jail for the right to own gold. Would I be the first Auric martyr?
Before this happens, I would look out for articles in which gold bugs are demonised as:
- Hoarding wealth
- Non-patriotic
- Bringing down the financial system
- People of a certain race mentioned frequently in the Bible
- Terrorists
They can do whatever they want as they are all in the same club. Keep your bullion safe and close by. All other "fools-gold" is someone else's promise to deliver.
Exhibit 1:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/206...h-and-guns.html
Exhibit 2:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/FedCrimes/Sto...7897&page=1
Exhibit 3:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/25510
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Rhodium crash....Oh dear
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Do you have a link for this, Pluto?
Please play the whole clip. Bernanke specifically states they only ever discuss gold when central banks want to sell at 5:03. If you believe him I have an Island off the northern coast of France called UK I can sell you.
Enjoy!
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Stocks now rising a bit as well. My juniors still suck the big one though.
Juniors need credit - no credit available. Their only hope is a buyout. Tread carefully miners are just like any other company - they all have the same problems.
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Totally agree, im still a buyer and will be holding firm for a good few more years until something gets resolved with regards to currencies. Today looks like a bit of a squeeze going on but i'm not feeling overly bulish just yet. I think we'll see plenty of more smackdowns on this journey.
The Comex warehouse, just like fort Knox, will soon be revealed for what it is - an empty shell. Sure right now you can get your bullion in large chunks from them, but that is only because very few folks actually collect on the paper. Once the masses smell a rat, like De Gaulle did in the late 60s, the comex will default. This will be a repeat of when Nixon closed the gold window in '71.
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Need to break out of this before getting too excited.
The whole market is imploding. Commercial real estate is going to implode next then US treasuries - which are returning almost ZERO. According to Bernanke's testimony gold is only discussed in their meetings when central bankers talk about selling. I think Bernanke is lying, and right now they are throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Gold to keep it down in the rigged paper markets. Paper markets will implode god willing and bullion will shoot to 2,000 USD or Sterling (you pick your poison) lickety split.
Hold long and strong.
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The barbarous relic, according to John Maynard Keynes, is not doing too shabby today.
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OK - Open question to all: Is Gold Money safe? I have 10% PM....want more, but is physical the only real way? GoldMoney looks good to me...but as Pluto says - why leave your life jacket at home when you go out sailing?
Safe is what [you] determine as safe - not what someone else tells you. The financial world is collapsing and governments are rewriting the rule book daily.
Leaving assets in foreign country is making the assumption that the crisis is local; but what if it is global?
Have you tried to buy bullion recently? That should point in the right direction.
Don't be caught with your pants down.
) , the government would have to criminalize the private holding of gold. They would also have to dismantle or neutralize the judicial system, as I'm sure people considerably richer than moi would take the matter of private gold seizure to the House of Lords.
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in Gold, FX, Stocks / Diaries & Blogs
Posted
I just noticed how on HPC muppetland, they are posting pics of rockets, how ironic, that the gold thread moved but the rockets stayed.