wren

Okey-dokey, I've done my research and are going with CID as they seem much the cheapest. I've seen people on here approve of them. Correct?

 

Interestingly, CID Sovereigns are cheaper per unit gold weight than Britannias which is unusual and attractive given their divisibility and CGT free-ness.

 

How do sovereigns (Elizabeths) generally come packaged? Can you source capsules anywhere?

A couple of months ago I compared the per gold gramme cost of CID's various gold coins. QE2 sovereigns were the cheapest of all (less than Krugs or Phillies).

I received sovereigns from them in small plastic bags which you can press closed at one end.

I've been happy with CID's service having ordered from them several times.

That is what I have been doing, placed my small monthly orders yesterday.

The Chinese have got the right idea encouraging their population to put savings into gold and silver (pig farmers have already gone for copper and nickel ).

This will help protect their savings and stabilize the country and possibly their economy.

Meanwhile in the USA and UK, the governments seem not to give a damn about the long-term financial security of the general population.

Pig farmers in China have been stockpiling copper. I think this shows how much people want to invest in something tangible. It augers well now that they are free to buy silver and gold.

China’s Pig Farmers Amass Copper, Nickel, Sucden Says (Update1)

 

By Glenys Sim

 

Sept. 17 (Bloomberg) -- Private investors in China, the world’s largest metals user, have stockpiled “substantial” quantities of copper as the government ramps up stimulus spending to spur the economy, according to Sucden Financial Ltd.

 

Pig farmers and other speculators may have amassed more than 50,000 metric tons, Jeremy Goldwyn, who oversees business development in Asia for London-based Sucden, wrote in an e- mailed report after a visit to China. That’s about half the level of inventories tallied by the Shanghai Futures Exchange, which stood last week at a two-year high of 97,396 tons.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=new...id=a1B_ZBQfii8Q

Should you join the gold rush?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/moneybox/8250580.stm

Note that selling gold is mentioned before buying:

Some people wanting to take advantage of the high price are selling their own jewellery for scrap - but how good are the deals being offered on TV or by high-street jewellers?

 

Others may think now is still the time to buy, rather than sell gold. Paul Lewis talked to Justin Urquhart Stewart of Seven Investment Management about the options available to investors.

so when the silver ratio is at its lowest, that's the best time to sell your silver ?

When the ratio is high it has been favourable to swap gold into silver.

This way over the years some guys increase their total ounces over just sitting and holding.

However, considering that you have bars and coins selling one to buy the other would incur extra costs from the premiums (and VAT in the case of buying silver).

I believe that sometime probably late in this bull market the ratio will go to 20:1 or less (very long term like 20 years or so it could even go to 8:1 or lower).

So although the swapping has been friutful in this bull market so far at some point the swappers who swap at say 48 or 50 (which has been good so far) will get caught out. E.g. the ratio goes to say 48:1 and silver owners swap for gold, but the ratio continues to drop which one day it will have to if it is ever to reach 20:1. If that happens they would have been better off not swapping as silver does a Mars shot while gold does only a Moon shot.

In your case with physical silver bars I'd suggest that you just buy and hold until they buy a lot more house than today.

am I understanding this chart below correctly ?

 

so that huge spike in '79 was when the pos shot through the roof for a short time ? then you would either buy another hard asset with the currency of your choice, or buy back into gold then ?

The huge spike was the time to exit gold and silver for different assets.

It's best to compare them with real assets like houses and don't let the nominal paper money price deceive you.

Just bumping this thread. Charlie said he is going to the September London pub meeting.

http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index....ic=7656&hl=

I hope you guys have a nice meeting.

An interesting article about currency debasement in the Roman Empirte.

Near the end:

Constantine's reforms were also partial, but of sufficient vigor and radical character to make a difference. Through his willingness to extract by compulsion the gold reserves of the taxpayers, forcing them to disgorge their bullion, he placed an ever-increasing supply of gold in the hands of government officials.

 

This was increasingly used to pay military bonuses, salaries for bureaucrats, and even payments for certain public works. Increasingly, then, a two-tier monetary system emerged in which the government, the soldiers, and the bureaucrats enjoyed the benefits of a gold standard while the nongovernmental portion of the economy continued to struggle with a rapidly inflating fiat currency.

 

The new gold solidus — circulated widely by its possessors, the government-salaried employees — sold at various market rates to customers who desperately needed it to pay their taxes. Thus the state had found a way to protect itself and its servants from the unwholesome effects of its own earlier inflationary cycle, while slowly withdrawing from the cumbersome and wasteful system of accepting taxes and paying salaries in kind. Meanwhile, the masses suffered from a massive injection of fiat money, which they had to accept in payment for government requisitions of gold, silver, or other commodities.

http://mises.org/story/3663

then one asian lad said, I would buy some gold at 99.9%, he is seven years old. She said she got goose pimples all over when he said this.

Start them young.

But come to think of it a child imagining that as king he should buy lots of gold seems quite natural.

Surely gold is often a part of fairy tales and naturally associated with being rich.

Choosing three nines fine though, means, he's a gold bug.

.

Good point.

how have you worked that out Wren ?

 

...

 

edit 2 - ah ha, you are obviously in germany or rather not getting the silver shipped to the rip UK then.....that would explain it. Hence GF's recommendation of getting delivery in another european country.

so does only the UK pay vat on silver then ?

Yeah, sorry. Those are the German prices (7% VAT).

I forgot that you pay differently in the UK.

h'mmm didn't realise you could get coins that big.

they are more expensive though on CID than the bars, I am buying in euros remember.

 

I might have a look at those on my next purchase then. I should have really put a bit more thought into it tbh wrt asthetics I suppose.

Just comparing CID 1 kilo bars with 1 kilo coins, the coins are cheaper (brutto prices):

Heraeus or other manufacturere / oder andere Hersteller 1 kg 1000.00 Gramm €484.33

Silver Koala 1kg 2009 1000.00 Gramm €461.22

Silver Kookaburra 1kg 2009 1000.00 Gramm €466.18

Silver OX/Ochse 1kg 2009 (Lunar) 1000.00 Gramm €461.62

So the 1 kilo Koala is the cheapest. Very nice coins, I have a 1 kilo koala.

Off topic:

CID has a special offer of 1 oz palladium maples. VAT is 19% for me though!

Brutto €297.50 versus a bid price of €200!

1000.50

All this hoopla today, and I just remembered -- we are still a far cry from the high in GBP!

In euros too, and while today the USD price was going up, the euro price much less so. It didn't even make it to €700.

I think the cartel concentrated on getting a sub-1000 NY close in the face of a dropping dollar and they did a good job. But there are many more weeks and months of the gold season to come.

Silver did not bad today. The G:S ratio briefly dropped below 60.0 .

My take is: gold had just another boring day at the $1,000 level. Everyone and their dog knows anyway that it will soon go off to higher levels, so everyone is bored out of their heads and just waiting for it to happen. The USD got somewhat ignored by Au today, but that is nothing new, they don't always move at the same time.

It broke above 1000 in Asian trading and was knocked below 1000 in NY trading. Highly predictable.

In a few hours we go back to Asia.

I'm just pleased that it broke 1000 as I have got bored waiting for that.

It may be a battle of even weeks to come at around 1000.

James Turk talks gold and sterling in the Daily Mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/article-1...aven-money.html

It seems that some Chinese firms involved in derivatives contracts were not authorised by the State to do so.

State-owned carriers Air China, China Eastern and Shanghai Airlines have reported losses of almost two billion dollars since last year on aviation fuel hedging contracts.

 

Late last month, Caijing magazine reported, citing an unnamed state enterprise executive, that only 31 state-owned firms were licensed to enter into such deals, while many more were apparently doing so.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20090907/tbs-...va-ec2362a.html

Australian production increasing again after recent declines:

Gold shines as China dumps greenback

Robin Bromby | September 07, 2009

 

NOT before time -- and great timing, at that. After problems in recent years with declining gold output -- production fell by 4 per cent in the 2009 fiscal year -- Australia is back on the growth path.

 

Melbourne-based Surbiton Associates, which produces quarterly statistics on the local gold sector, tells us production of the yellow metal not only turned around and rose in the June quarter (by two tonnes) after three quarters of decline but we're on track to become the world's second-largest producer within a year (behind China but ahead of present No.2, the US).

 

<snip>

 

What a time to be churning out gold, with the metal so close to $US1000/oz.

 

Ask yourself this: if, as some politicians would like the world to believe, everything is on the brink of being hunky-dory, how come investment demand for gold is growing?

 

You should ignore the hand-wringing of some commentators about demand for gold in jewellery being down. It's irrelevant. You only have to look at China to see why.

 

We've been reading reports during the week that indicate the Chinese government is about to starting encouraging its 1.3 billion people to invest in gold and silver.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/busin...5005200,00.html

My assessment of today's price action be based upon the facts, all of the facts and nothing but the facts.

Don't Second-Guess Yourself .

 

EURO CHART

Would be nice for me if the euro strengthens (I'm in the Eurozone). I want cheap silver!

I have only a few coins. When I got silver from CID:

Britannias in sealed plastic squares (as from the mint I assume)

Pandas in capsules.

Australian ones in capsules.

Eagles, Maples and Libertads in little plastic bags (these probably come as rolls of 20 from the mint, so I guess they split them into bags for small orders).

Aesthetically I think I prefer silver coins to gold ones.

Loaded fine for me.

Thanks for checking. Must be something at my end.

I just noticed there is a nice full moon out tonight. Clouds rushing across the sky and the moon as it's very windy today.

Anybody think this can affect the markets?

The moon, not the wind.

Is http://www.gold-eagle.com down?

Might it be due to excessive traffic?

Hey, that "good" money is worth more bad money than it was yesterday!

 

Bill don't like gold too much, find out why.

Bill posted the other day that he is not against gold as an investment.

However, considering the 19th century "cross of gold" experience, he is against the so-called "gold standard". It seems that the problem back then in the USA was that few people owned gold but many owned silver (coins and plenty of silver mines in the west to boost supply). So a gold standard basically put most of the money power in the hands of a small clique especially bankers who would use it to back fractional reserve banking.

This is why I dislike the phrase "gold standard" as on the face of it it implies 100% gold-backed money which was not the case.

you really think silver could go that high GF.....

 

I must admit I was going in all gold until about 1 month ago.

I expect silver to go to half a day's work at least, maybe a whole day.

If an average UK house goes to 100 oz gold (which I think likely in a few years) and if the G:S ratio goes to 20:1 that would be 2000 oz silver per house.

I believe that these are very realistic expectations going on the historical record. They may go to greater extremes e.g. house for 60 oz gold, G:S 15:1 (the long-term historical average) which would mean a house for 900 oz silver - about 3 years' salary at 1 oz per day's work.

I placed another order today (this morning), I paid euros 15.29 (16.68 EUR ) per coin & euros 363 (396.00 EUR) for the 1 kg bars +vat

they are now euros 17.15 & euros 467 + vat.

 

glad I placed it now. unsure.gif

 

edit - oops, wrong order, that was one from a few days ago. todays prices that I paid are in brackets.

If you're in it for the long term in a few years you will look at these prices as remarkably cheap.

I wish I had some serious money back in 2003. I would have loaded up at EUR 5 (liitle more than a packet of cigarettes or a beer in an expensive bar).

Gold was under USD 325 when I became a gold bull back at the end of 2002. I was too poor to take advantage then.

Looking back though it would have required lots and lots of patience to hold on all those years.

Do you have a GoldMoney account? It's a good way to buy VAT-free investment silver.

If you sign up via this site you get the first 6 months' storage for free.

<cue music>

Get yourself some silver

and hide it away

for a rainy day.