id5

You are missing why we use fiat from your thoughts. Using PM's on a daily basis still happens in a lot of non-westernised countries and has for thousands of years. The Chinese originally thought of fiat because they had a stable political system that lasted for generations. Its purpose was never to make trade easier but to reduce loss of tax. As soon as a payment is made in weight of PM's and not the value of a token you break that key link to the government coffers, that of control of the currency. The government can monitor and control tokens but they can’t control metal that has its own intrinsic value, the black or natural market flourishes. The more stable the country the less the black or natural exists and the further the people can been weaned from metals with value. Tesco’s, Wal-Mart and the other chains cannot react fast enough when a fiat economy is under severe stress because they are built on the fundamentals of fiat. They do not make their money by selling goods. They make it from renting shelf space to the food producers along with built in distribution and payment facilities. Their store managers have little to do with pricing as this is done centrally along with purchase and stock control. Independent stores don’t have this problem as they control the price, stock and where they purchase stock from. Look at the news footage from countries like Argentina and Zimbabwe and you can see that the chain stores have empty shelves but the independents are still well stocked. Go to an independent and ask a non-westernised Asian or Middle-Eastern owner if you can pay in precious metals, the result may surprise you.

In your no:2 scenario with what do you buy your local currency with? When it gets to this stage then capital controls will be in place and unless you have already exchanged your local for a commodity or other countries currency you would have nothing to purchase local currency with. PM’s have little volume compared to value and keep for ever unlike many commodities. Bulky commodities also require storing and increase the risk of robbery on the way to buy enough local currency. Consider gold going to $5,000, five times today’s price, and silver at a ratio of 1:20 somewhat more like its historic norm. With gold at £626 that will be £3130 an ounce or £100 per gram. So a gram of silver will be equal to £5, a fine silver 16” belcher weighs about 2.5 grams or £12 if gold was to go that high, 10 silver chains for your weekly shop.

Close, what I said was 'buy the correct tool for the job' from the A Short Guide to Buying Coins thread that I wrote a while back. Don't feel sad, I hoard all non-ferrous metals from tin cans to coin. People make take the mickey but it always may me smile when I get cash for the scrap

Look at the size of the houses for sale as well sophia, you get a lot better and often bigger size house even though the average has gone up. If they were force to quote a £perSquareMetre then we would all see it still falling.

I do not think that there will be enough even though there are still many around. As I have said somewhere on here before, most probably in one of the SHTF or survival threads, if fiat collapses and becomes just paper then gold will be for after, during the recovery, your store of wealth. You will get paid in silver and purchase your daily goods in copper. Value will be weight and purity based and it is very easy to check the validity of these three PM’s because they have be real money for 1,000's of low tech years.

Better than the one that was blocked by photobucket

They are owned by a casting company who just remelt and service the jewellery and dental industry and have been in the business a long time.

Go and answer the phone GF and then come back to the conversation

Ziknik is correct, 1817 was the re-birth of the Sovereign and a Guinea was worth £1/1/0. The first Sovereigns were from the reign of Henry VII, the proclimation was issued on the 28th October 1489 and the coins minted soon after. The list of coins below are the sizes and weights of Guineas and the older Sovereigns, all minted out of 22ct gold of course. 16.0 mm 2.1 g Quarter Guinea 17.0 mm 2.8 g Third Guinea 19.0 mm 4.0 g Half Sovereign 20.0 mm 4.2 g Half Guinea 22.0 mm 8.0 g Sovereign 25.0 mm 8.4 g One Guinea 28.0 mm 16.0 g Two Pounds 31.5 mm 16.8 g Two Guineas

We did this back in last December. In the UK in 1900 a building labourer was paid £0.21 per day and silver was £0.13 per ounce, I even produced a series of graphs which culminated in the one below.

26/06/09 to be exact and the sister companies Crown Holdings Limited links to Crown Group which is an bunch of events and hospitality companies none of them have anything to do with Forex that I can see. The chairman is listed as "Russell Morgan, Chairman, founded the Crown Group over thirty years ago and has watched it grow into one of the leading independent companies within the catering and event industry." DYOR but I am glad that I do not have a bargepole.

CGT is not payable on any Sterling Currency and the definition of Sterling Currency is equal to that of legal tender which is coinage and banknotes defined by the various Coinage Acts. Pre-decimal silver or copper coins are no longer legal tender so you get no CGT relief on them but you still need a license to melt them down. Maundy money though which is still silver is legal tender. Don't get yourself more than a couple of bags of these as emergency SHTF money, the reason being that if the fan doesn't get hit then you will be stuck with coin that is harder to refine than Sterling silver. The resale value of these old coins has gone up considerably in the past year or so because of the possibility of the SHTF. I suspect that as soon as the financial systems stabilise enough then the price of these coins will crash back down. As an alternative just by some cheap silver braclets for trade rather than old coin.

Some only lend to the owner of the item in the same way as a pawn shop but if the owner instructs then some do lend to others taking a cut of the interest or a fee depending on which set of laws the deal is based under.

I can understand you being disturbed by a white van man doing it, badly it seems but independant jewellers have done this for years. Many buy and store bullion, jewellery and art for their clients, some will even loan against what is stored and essentially how banks started. Its the way a big chunk of the non-western world still does business. I have always thought that if a banking system fails and the country does not go Mad Max then this is where public banking will fall back to.

I know what you mean GOM. When I talk about jewellery, PM's, etc I get the same befuddled look of “Err, what he saying, he didn’t mention ‘goal’ or ‘0-60’ or the weather”. If you go to other countries the conversation is different, they are far more interested for their beauty or as store of wealth. Immigrants are also more interested in the subjects, I think that it is because they have had the levels of instability that the UK has not seen for a 1,000 years or so.

Ah! Don't forget the anorak that comes as an accessory to the book PS: Welcome to the club

Where did you finally order your coins from GOM, it is just that shield Victorias are more collectable than those with a St. Goerge, some years or some die numbers are even more collectable?

I hope that you end up in a place you like down south GOM because if not then I think that your long suffering wife may snap and do you in

Thanks for that I nearly missed it. Entered into the diary, it really pisses people off in meetings and conference calls when you start talking like a pirate and given the complete loss of control from a French bloke last year who was in one of the meetings I will definitely tell everyone else what day it is on

It is a type of leaching process where they use 'safer' chemicals than nitirc acid. The kit does work but I have heard that the trick is in the preparation of the metals before you start the process. The kit it is also very expensive compared to the cost of the chemicals involved. There is a chlorine leeching process that would be very similar to the kit. I have never had the need to use it myself and I am sure that you will be able to find one on the web. Look for a process that uses sodium hydroxide and calcium hypochlorite, most of these can be brought in a good pool shop. Again, I would use a respirator and work outside as the chlorine that can come off is a not too good for you.

I hope that the son was very young and your tooth old and weak, the alternative does not make happy families

I don't like the way the nitric is made, there are some very dangerous reactions that could occur here depending on what else is in the drain cleaner. For your own safety skip this step and buy yourself a suitable acid gas respirator and then buy yourself nitric acid here. It is not very strong but it will dissolve a small amount of silver over a few days. If you really want it to work faster then with the respirator on heat the solution gently outside in a pyrex beaker but keep organic residues away from it and do not get it boiling, this is all at your own risk not mine! Playing with acids can kill you! The rest will although I suspect that you will not recover as much of the silver as you hope.

Doesn't normally happen on a Friday, got a chart somewhere fom someone else on occurences of smackdowns but I can't find it. GF was it one of yours?

Not as much fun as one of my friends who is now an avid anti-smoker and puts out ashtrays for his guests with a bit of black powder in the botttom, now he is mad! but it is fun to watch

Silver melts at 962C and a little butane torch will go to 1300C. Nitric will dissolve the most of board, chips, silver, gold and all. It is best to either separated by crushing and floating the light parts away or burning, and then processing the residual. What process are you going to use?