aliveandkicking

The last thing the people running the world need right now is high oil prices.

People dont need to use oil like they have been using it. Wood pellets or geothermal for heating is fairly common these days Anyway there is a recession and repayment of debt. Teenagers wont be running around in circles and dad wont lend the car with petrol in it. Twenty year olds cant afford car insurance Meanwhile the indebted oil rich countries have to pump regardless of the price and there is a surplus of oil

Oil almost into the 60's. 50's and below here we come i think

if it was faked using actors then it was without meaning Otherwise it means that gold is not easily recognisable to people, or is easily passed as real when fake or some such meaning

As far as i knew central banks still settle in gold via the bank of international settlements But most people on the planet dont see gold as money as far as i can see. Gold is instead like diamonds or pearls. Most people will not take gold as money because they are unable to know it is gold, just as people are unlikely to take a diamond or a pearl because they cannot know if it is genuine. It is an impractical money unless it is made into recognised coins that can easily be passed to another person. If you offer me gold and pay for my expenses to melt it down and have it tested we could probably trade however provided i took no risk for whatever happened to your gold while it was tested and i was still due payment regardless of the results of my test.

Washington has more power now because if washington does not act then we will all slide into deflation where debts will destroy businesses individuals communities friend and foe. My city house is going to look a bit silly here without heat and electric light and available food if the utilities and buisiness go bust. the USA remains the most powerful economy on earth. That is the reality. People here holding promises from gold money or bullion vault wont get a penny if they go bust or the bullion holders go bust The world is built on promises Also reality. All this talk that fiat is 'just promises' is kind of nuts given many of you are promised stuff from other people and you think you are in a better position than others

most of us are required to settle our debts in cash. If we have gold we sell gold to get cash Most of us dont see gold as money. instead it is what a person has if they have money. A person can have debt and money and gold. Upon settlement they might have only debt. In deflation more people are settling debt than getting new debt. Therefor the buying power of cash rises. What the banks have is irrelevant unless that is being spent. Maybe it was to get gold to go up. But now?

You already have said that most if not all people here object to anti gold talk. What you prove here is only going to fit what you already believe In deflation cash rises in value. Devaluation will probably come in the final analysis Meanwhile the dollar could strengthen until next year and beyond due to the nature of fractional reserve banking where everybody is chasing cash rather than debt money

Its got nothing to do with persuading people with an argument. It is just saying what seems to be true. Gold bulls often refuse to even attempt to understand the case for a deflationary recession. Apparently such talk only comes from the gubberment agents illuminati and the mentally ill. Anybody who disagrees is just being troublesome and talking nonesense or is one of the usual suspects etc etc. a pretty weak argument

I was going to edit it later to 'local currency' from 'money' - but left it as it was. If the ultimate money cannot easily be used to buy some veggies and a pint of beer it appears to have some limitations that most people can recognise when they pop out to get the groceries and dont have time to weigh their Gold with Mr Patel and risk they dont get gold in change due to the difficulties easily telling the difference between coated gold and other stuff which are the same difficulties Mr Patel faces when you ask him to take your gold. I dont see gold as a very useful practical money. And we dont have to agree.

But it seems true fear of deflation drives gold down and inflation drives it up. Today we have this kind of news in Finland: Finnish GDP contracts by 7.4 pct yr/yr in November -SF Finland's gross domestic product (GDP) contracted by 7.4 per cent year-on-year in November last year, having shrank at a revised rate of 8.6 per cent in October, Statistics Finland said in a statement Friday. Over in my other home we have this: Yesterday’s HLFS revealed a spike in NZ’s unemployment rate to 7.3% in Q4, from 6.5% a quarter earlier. It was the highest reading since June 1999. The extent of the move caught everyone by surprise, How long will it be before this kind of news is replaced by a steady flow of inflationary news and/or booming economic conditions?

All assets are in a permanent bull market long term due to the nature of our money system. I cant say what will happen to gold in the next year because i dont know if we get a worsening recession or we do continue with some kind of modest recovery. Neither of those two scenarios would be great for gold but gold must rise in price eventually along with all assets. If Gold goes to Prechters 650 it would still be in a bull market as i understand the definition of bull market. I find it hard to believe it will go back down there. Maybe you could clarify what a bull market is for me

Gold is not some special thing beyond economics You buy it cheap in order to profit from it later when you need that profit. The time is now for many. Many people need money more than they need gold PS. Goldfinger earlier said he had too many prior committments for two months and was unable to buy Gold but added he might risk the anger of his wife and buy some even so.

So the feds own documents tell you there is plenty of money? I dont see plenty of money in the real world though

Alternatively nobody has much use for gold and they are instead repaying debt and attempting to survive a difficult recession where deflationary news seems more powerful than inflationary news Even Goldfinger is short of money. You still get a good price for gold and can use the money to buy some veggies or if you are feeling richer a decent bit of meat and a bottle of cheap wine.

You seem unable to understand that food is more valueable to humans than gold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM

It is pretty obvious the Feds can trade on the knowledge they have by being the markets biggests players. Pretty obvious that the largest speculative positions they dont like can be targetted and destroyed. On the other hand if there are many smaller players all moving with the market there is not so much they can do. If the potato harvest fails the feds cannot so easily drive down the price of potatos unless there are already large stock piles of potatos. Gold seems an easy target because so much is stockpiled doing nothing at all while not much is consumed or needed.

1) A COLOSSAL BAILOUT SCHEME FOR LARGE SCALE OUTRIGHT PURCHASES OF MORTGAGE SECURITIES, FUNDED BY STRAIGHTFORWARD CREATION OF CURRENCY WHICH WILL IGNITE A DEADLY HYPERINFLATIONARY PRICE SPIRAL IN VIRTUALLY EVERY COMMODITY ON THE PLANET AND SKYROCKETING LONG TERM BOND YIELDS WHICH WILL FURTHER COMPOUND DERIVATIVE LOSSES WORLDWIDE Cgnao seems to have an impressive ability to predict the future and yet appears totally wrong there are massive deflationary forces around the world. There are no massive inflationary forces at work at the moment other than lower interest rates and plenty of money in the banks. There is no possibility of a hyperinflationary price spiral getting out of control while deflationary forces are so massive and CB's are relatively impotent to reverse that until sentiment changes

Looking like euro problems are going to take the euro back to the lows of post lehmans with gold doing something similar Euro 1.25 Gold 880?

Economics in action? People have bought things they dont need in the hope they will rise in price based on the idea that things only rise in price 100% guaranteed.

And lets hope that Prechter is just some nutter on the internet

Debt is slavery sounds fairly religious Debt can be very empowering if it means you have at your disposal the power of your lifes work right now in front of you to do work far faster than you ever could without debt It is an opportunity or a curse.

Why do people have to be in debt?? Surely it is more correct to say that it is a pity that people chose to be in debt when it does not assist them in their lives? Why is it that people cant take responsibility and it is somebody elses fault that they have to be in debt?

It is not possible to have things for nothing though. 1. Where will the money come from to pay for your products? 2. Running your own buisiness can mean that being at home is like being at work 3. Bankers provide a service as their buisiness. Like plumbers provide a service. If the money fails or the water fails we tend to call out the army and so forth. Granted their are degrees of insanity and horribleness between plumbing failing and money failing 4. Most people buying expensive houses think they can prosper and live comfortably in retirement and spend more time with their family 5. Successful none self employed people can spend time with their familes 6. If you spend too much time with your family you want to spend less time with your family 7. We are all living in a benefit culture one way or another where we believe we get something for nothing - or that is how we think it works deep down psychologically If you want to run your own buisiness then do it and avoid blaming others for where you are at the moment. Just do it.

Silvers fortunes are probably tied to coppers.