BlackPepper

I pondered for a time thinking about what you said, and was considering whether there would be a unified cooperation on a global stage? But I feel this would have a real negative impact on various currencies and economies. Gold would be better used as some sort of wealth erosion insurance protection rather than using the old gold standard regime. Once confidence returns to paper currencies, the rush into gold will evaporate. What is needed is something completely new. Not a re-visit to a system that also failed.

In the case of Argentina (when it defaulted some years back), did not the government of the day re-issued a new paper currency and pegged it equal to the then USD? If then as you said regarding paper collapsing, gold would have to be pinned to a fixed value, and be void from speculation.

Not disagreeing with the above, but is not gold's value measured against currency? If paper currency were to collapse as some suggest, how would you measure gold's value? And furthermore, will there still be a buyer?

So my question is now what do we use to measure real value?

Dream on it will not happen.........nations require resources not speculated silver spoons

Hi with goldbugs anything that threats their faith, is heresy, however gold has performed well although it does not pay a reward for holding/s, besides capital gain, the reward is crap unless you cash in. Now that gold is heading south in value one has to question regardless of hedge protection against currencies (forgive my grammar) gold is/or poor as an investment class as it does not pay a dividend. this issue of hyper-inflation is bullshit, it will not happen look at Australia, tell me where it will occur?

mate! this is buy buy signal, underwater investments are the trend now!

Why? This thread is about GOLD so really I would of thought it was open to all discussions/questions relating to GOLD is up for grabs. Lets take GOLD on face value without the speculation and you will clearly admit GOLD has not hit the targets boasted by the multitude of GOLD cheeleader sites. So far the advice on this thread regarding buy and hold does not stack up. The whole point of hoarding GOLD is to support vested interests by limiting the local supply, and forcing up market values. Yes I know you have ingrained response that is clearly echoed all over the internet, about GOLD will be the last man standing that represents a safe haven of wealth. So why then is Gold being sold off to prop up other failing asset classes? Well perhaps GOLD is not an income producing asset? So if we all bought gold and buried in the ground how would this help the economies? Talk about conspiracies........ Ooh maybe the chosen few will reap the golden Nirvana.............

I think Silver is becoming Gold's ugly sister.

Yes thanks again, totally appreciate your insight, Keep this up, and I will be singing the same tune!

Yes Agree, gold had to be dug out at some point, and the amount reflected in historical data does suggest very little but that does not really prove that there was not much gold in existence as per population, but yes a valid point. There is a lot of nonsense floating around on the internet, but there must be some motivation for doing so. It's great to see strong debate. But I don't think gold is a scarce as some would like you to believe. Rumours of rumours based on fear distorts price. I have read many Goldbug theories/prophecies and some are very sane and some not. There are those who like to hoard gold as a protection against possible wealth errosion on the assumption or belief of a hyper-inflationary outcome where fiat/paper currency will become almost worthless. But I am sitting in the deflation camp unless otherwise convinced.

Yes annoyingly biased areas of discussion, and easily irritated when someone goes against the tide of belief. I have an open mind like the sky I see daily big and blue.

Yes totally agree with your sentiments, I think where you and I have our differences in reference to gold prior to the 1800's is there is no true accounting as regards to the existing gold not gold that is being produced. You really would not know if wealthy Dynasty's hoarded private stashes prior to the reference point 1800. So perhaps it is not so far fetched as you think Okay but doesn't the goldbug prophecies regarding the impending "paper money crisis" sound just as rediculous as anything else you get on the net? I mean imagine say you lived in the UK (hey I am citizen of that cold miserable shithole) with a population that is unable to produce enough food to feed itself, then the paper currencies collapse, people panic, how are you going to survive? The last performance we saw on TV when they started to implement mild austerity measures the population set the place on fire and looted the place silly. Imagine that on a grand scale! Or do you feel that everyone will act civilized and you will able to walk down to the market and say "I say old Chap, you willing to trade some gold for that bread?"

Yes thanks thats really great I appreciate your response, but the original question was about how much gold was really in existence prior to the 1800's, besides European accounting totals. Like anything else many businesses have a habit of not disclosing or being truly transparent when it comes to holdings of wealth profits...to avoid paying taxes etc, and furthermore in your own very words about dishonest bankers etc, so to add what makes you think they were transparently honest back in the 1800's? I am aware you believe gold will continue to rise as it is speculated as to be a true safe haven and when and if due to hyper-infaltionary forces it will not be subject to high valuation loss. You could be right about this, and I do not dispute that, but I personally feel there is something not quite right about all of this, and that is only reason why I am at present bothering to question you as you appear to possess the strongest motivation in this scenario. BTW I am not in the Wilcock or Fulford camp or for that matter take the likes of David Icke seriously at all, but it does make interesting reading when I am bored.

Why? Who said? What is the relevence to the question of the accounting of gold after the 1800's?

Actually yes, I purchased a 3 bedroom dump near Cairns QLD for $46k in 2001 and sold it recently for $295k and during that time the rents covered the holding costs.

Yes it is strange that from offical accounting estimates there was a near to zero figure considering gold coins at that time were circulating as a form of currency.

Aztecs in more recent times comes to mind, and they also did not have in possession current day technology to mine gold. History records that most of the gold that was pillaged was melted down. http://www.aztec-history.com/aztec-jewelry.html And all this carry on was before the 1800's. In Australia during the gold rush, you can still evidence of shallow mines in various places, where much surface gold was extracted. http://www.kidcyber.com.au/topics/gold.htm http://www.finders.com.au/gold-pages/central-victorian-goldfields/the-golden-triangle/ These are only examples of recent times........

I doubt it, in modern times I would generally agree where mercury is used as part of the extraction process, and you would require toxic dump areas for the used chemicals; which adds to the increased extraction costings, but in ancient times gold was mined in relatively shallow mines without the use of chemicals so evidence of ancient mines are almost non-existent as gold was clearly in more abundance and more easily atainable during our ancient ancestors times; and recorded history has displayed plenty of examples of many past kingdoms that do not exist in our current modern times did have plenty of gold, for example the Roman Empire. To add much pillaged gold from war spoils was melted down many times over and hoarded away, so it would almost be impossible to have a true census accounting of how much gold actually exists and this alone allows the speculators to create wonderful myths where so many blindly follow. To give you an idea I have supplied a link to give you an idea of the size of these existing gold mines, and to make such an enterprise viable would require a considerable amount of gold still exisiting in the ground. http://www.mining-technology.com/projects/lihir/

Do I sense fear in your faith GF? and more so deflation and the possible future austerity in the Eurozone? As I said long ago on this very thread you should be prepared for the possible threat to loose your gold or the possible sudden devaluation of your precious and you shot me down in flames with powerful confidence it was totally mind blowing; hey no offence taken I admire such faith/gamble/bets/speculations, it reminds of that fellow who sells that rapture story Chuck Missler. Even the host of this web site gave many insights to the shakey nature of this belief without insult, and many here in their arrogance accused the host of heresy for simply presenting alternatives. I ask why are Goldbugs rude know it all wankers? Why are Goldbugs happy to trample down anything that goes against their cheerleaders? When they also speculate regarding future outcomes................... I could be wrong I could be right I could be wrong I could be right I could be wrong I could be right I could be black I could be white I could be black I could be white I could be white I could be black Your time has come your second skin The cost so high the gain so low Walk through the valley The written word is a lie

Well if you are NOT actually holding the precious in your hot little hands your gold could be long gone! Gold may plummet now that confidence is being ripped out. Although you have to give credit where credit is due the goldbugs have been saying you gotta hold the physical in your hot little hands. From GoldSilver.com - "Currently, there is only enough investment-grade gold available on Earth for every living person to have 1/3rd of an ounce." and ".. there is only enough investment-grade silver on Earth for every person to have 1/14th of an ounce." Anyone for cash?

Regarding the links below, just remember also that as the date moves forward so does the population of the world increase and thus so does the reporting of extreme events that would previously have gone unnoticed... so one expects more reportage of events the more recent they are, but a simple calculation relating the rate of occurrences to the population of the time shows that the actual rate is virtually unchanged. However, still one should not stop from being alert as you never know as one thing is certain and that is change........ http://www.c3headlines.com/bad-stuff-happens.html

Spot gold eased 0.04 per cent to $US1692.09 an ounce Bullion struck a record of around $US1920 in September Hmm I dunno, charts mean very little to me and price does. If I bought in September I would be at a loss and that is fact. Confidence in the precious looks a little shakey. Having said that perhaps we have seen the top and now it will stagnate around its current price range, and this is all speculation by the way. I did remember some funny calls here about gold will be @$5000US an ounce back in 2009 anytime soon.......still waiting