Riverwalk, Rock Hill SC : compared with Asheville NC

[drbubb]

Riverwalk, Rock Hill SC : Future "Walkable neighboorhood" Success story?

 

Riverwalk is in the works ... condos, homes, restaurants and a 250m world-class velodrome, endorsed by USA Cycling and will host national and UCI caliber events. Mixed use, it will include a business district

 

:

High efficiency green homes... fit in with natural beauty

Plan Map / for google maps : Riverwalk, Rock Hill, SC, United States

 

Promotional video for Riverwalk home design

https://www.youtube....?v=Bzbmhzy-90k

Alan Banks and Chris Folk, discuss what makes Riverwalk great and their passion for the community.

+ 30% reductions in energy costs

+ Family-friendly open designs

 

 

Located on the banks of the Catawba River in Rock Hill,

Riverwalk is a unique community made for active lifestyles with 2.5 miles of riverwalk trails, bike trails, etc.

/ Builder: http://www.saussybur...riverwalk.html : http://www.saussybur...alk.html

 

A river runs near it/ Ambitious community takes shape west of the Catawba in Rock Hill

Allen Norwood .. Dec. 20, 2012

 

The Rock Hill mixed-use project could be more than a decade from completion. But long-term plans call for:

+ Long-term plans for some 400,000 square feet of commercial development on Cherry Road.

+ A huge business park facing I-77.

+ Mixed-use development – restaurants and the like – will occupy a spot down on the river.

+ At buildout, Riverwalk will include about 1,500 residential units.

 

RIVERWALK

If you are going to visit Riverwalk in Rock Hill, don’t just head for the familiar Cherry Road exit on I-77.

Workers are finishing a new bridge across the Catawba River, which will serve as a gateway to the city right at Riverwalk...

 

The Riverwalk development in Rock Hill is so big, so diverse and ambitious, that it’s hard to envision what it will look like when completed. Homes vary from around $240,000 to $367,000 and parts might resemble Baxter, the huge mixed-use development in nearby Fort Mill. Or maybe Birkdale in Huntersville or Ballantyne in southeast Charlotte.

 

Read more here: http://www.charlotte...#storylink=cpy

 

 

Riverwalk’s Town Center Will Welcome a Mix of National and Local Retailers, a YMCA and the Velodrome.

 

Through pedestrian- and cycle-friendly design, the Center will balance retail, commercial and parking to sidewalks, courtyards and green spaces. The architectural character blends elements of modern and main street commercial with a nod to industrial history and the warmth, character and detail of the Craftsmen Era.

 

The planned YMCA will be located adjacent to the Velodrome with outdoor spaces that will provide additional viewing opportunities during events. Proposed mixed-use buildings will offer ground floor retail with office above restaurants and shops. The Riverwalk Town Center will provide a premier office location for office for those who understand the value of a balanced life–a new generation that works hard and plays even harder. This is a place to take a leisurely bike ride, shop, grab a quick bite or experience the energy of world-class bicycle racing – live and up close.

 

RiverWalk Site :: http://www.riverwalk...m/town-center/

/Plan-1 : http://www.riverwalk...span

/Plan-2a : http://50.22.11.32/~...il-1.pdf : /Plan-2b : http://www.terremark...sion.pdf

/Investor :http://www.assuredll...te.html

 

===LINKS===

/City-data threads : CLT-NC : RH-SC : AV-NC : GV-SC : Urban : SGP : CarCost

/K-Cast related---- : Wind-up :

[drbubb]

 

Rock Hill, SC--- : 207m, 680.ft : 66.2k (2010) : 54.6%

Charlotte, NC- : 233m, 763.ft : 751k/ 1,795k : (2011) : 45.1%

Davidson, NC - : 249m, 819.ft : 10.9k (2010) : 88.5%

Fort Mills SC--- : 190m, 625.ft : 10.8k/ 36.1k (2010) : 81.7%

Lancaster SC-- : 166m, 545.ft : 10.2k/ 73.4k (2010) : 47.5%

Kershaw, SC-- : 159m, 521.ft : 1,645/ ??? k (2000) : 75.7%

(Asheville's "layered look")

 

Asheville, NC- : 648m, 2128ft: 83.4k/ 425k (2010) : 78.0%

Hendersonville- : 657m, 2156ft: 13,137 (2010) : 81.4%

Greenville SC - : 298m, 980.ft : 58.4k/ 653k (2011) : 62.1%

Columbia SC-- : 088m 290.ft : 130.6K/ 795k (2011) : 51.3%

/ Find altitude-- : http://www.daftlogic...nd-altitude.htm

[drbubb]

The Velodrome

 

Now ...............................................................................................

:

Future :

==============================================================================

 

Walking Trails in the area : http://www.starcamping.com/

=====================

 

MIXED USE / Allocated Space*

*( see post #9, about Birkdale Village )

 

========= RiverWalk vs Birkdale Village

---- Walkscore : new NA : : WS-75

SITE ACREAGE: 1,008 : : 0,800 Acres

Total Residential: 1,500 : 2,000 (in 4 communities)

TOWN CENTER: 65acres : 52 acres

------ Retail sf: 367,500 : 300,000

------ Office sf: 114,500 : 200,000 / 454,000 ttl?

----- Hotel rooms: 120 r's

------ YMCA, sf : 32,000 :

---- Residential : None : : 340 apt.s

Velodrome : 250m track

RIVER DISTRICT: 15.5 Acres

------ Retail sf: 067,170 :

------ Office sf: 032,400 :

-- Restaurant : 021,100 :

----- Hotel rooms: 120 r's

Residential : +/- 96 units :

PH.1 RESIDENTIAL: 108 Acres

Multi-Family : 500 units (+/-)

Townhomes : 325 units

Single-Family: 94 lots

FUTURE RESIDENTIAL PHASES:

Single-Family: 700 lots

INDUSTRIAL: 315 Acres, 3.2 million sf

===

/source: http://www.terremark...walk-Vision.pdf

 

All that mixed use can cut down on the driving that RW residents need to do:

"Live, work, and play" all within walking distance.

 

Just a few months ago, they asked why "No More Birkdales?": video

(Why? Watch the video) http://www.youtube.c.../?v=4dWgvdYArnA

Published on May 9, 2012

In 2012 Birkdale Village in Huntersville, N.C. turns ten years old. We ask the question, why aren't developers building more Birkdales?

Closing message:

"Okay, bankers and developers, the people of Birkdale have spoken. Let's have these places all across America."

[drbubb]

Riverwalk's River District may look something like this

/source-San Antonio River Walk : http://bestwesternte...onio-river-walk

 

[drbubb]

WHAT MAKES a Great Living Environment?

 

Here are some ideas from a thread about Up-and-Coming cities in England, and the UK:

 

(1)

The quality of London comes from four things in my view:

1. Size + Density = it makes business models & events (any niche you want) possible that are not viable in smaller or more spread out towns.

2. Transport/Location = both in the city itself, and to the city (Eurostar, Heathrow and the closest major city to the mainlaind by car.) Least bad climate of major British cities.

3. Legacy = as a capital of a former empire, it has an architectural and institutional legacy that is hard to rival.

4. International draw = as a business & academic centre + English as the main language.

 

I can't see how you can build that up anywhere "new" in less than a century, and such growth requires massive economic growth, capital and population influx.

Berlin has a chance, but has language and location going against it.

 

Winner takes all. Again. Unfortunately.

I don't disagree.

However, I think you may find some "up-and-coming" areas make a bid to win the hearts of those who are being priced out of London.

 

Understanding what makes it work (a superb "walkable" environment is a big part of it, IMHO), will give rising cities (in the UK) and elsewhere, and decent chance of winning new residents from London.

 

While not remotely a competitor of London, I have my eyes on some of the suburbs of Charlotte NC, America's Number 2 financial city (after New York City.) Here's one new project that I find particularly attractive as a new walkable community, using some New Urbanist principles:

 

RIVERWALK in Rock Hill South Carolina : http://www.greenener...showtopic=17439

 

What do people think of this as a place to live (do not expect it to rival London) ?

 

(2)

Though it looks lovely, it's a 20 mile drive to Charlotte and has no public transport option (that I could find). It's not much of an improvement over a sub-urb. It's still a car-centric way of life.

You might as well head for any of Europe's historical market towns satelliting capital cities, like say "http://en.wikipedia..../wiki/Mechelen" where good public commuter transport to the workplace in key cities exists.

 

Place like Rock Hill feed off the large nearby urban area. Any growth will invariably be due to that nearby city and not because of Rock Hill's qualities.

 

For spotting up and coming areas, I'd look for a growing arts scene, new record labels and startup companies in a place of historical importance but currently less significant than it use to be.

That way, you get a town centre, connectivity and possibly a university that's out of its league for the money currently in the town. In other words, undervalued or over equipped. Berlin, Bristol and Bilbao all had those signs a decade ago.

 

Because they're historical cities, they'll be walkable and livable, self-sustainable places (unlike suburbs).

 

(3)

Spot on -

I like historic places particularly early Industrial heritage, and even better a maritime slant - Bristol, London. It needs young creative people, edgy bars and clubs, artists etc. London's fringe with the City for example.

 

You can't build that from new.

[drbubb]

Riverwalk, Rock Hill SC : versus Walkable Rules

 

Comparing Riverwalk with the Tips listed in the "10 Ways to make a City More Walkable"*

 

There seem to be three main shortcomings:

 

+ Density is not high enough to be self-sustaining - the success of the Retail area will depend on "outside" traffic

 

+ Parking space is excessive, too much area is given over to it - too ":catch" that outside traffic

 

+ Some Transport links may be missing - there is easy access to Route 77, for private cars, but there are no provisions for public transport; non-drivers may be trapped in the RW development. This could be partly fixed by adding bus stops, and running a regular bus service to the center of the RW area (as happens at Manchester Cinemas, and Baxter Village, where the 55X bus runs to Charlotte.)

=== ===

 

* Tips ignored:

2. Mix the uses. ("Cities were created to bring things together.") : Not enough housing density

3. Get the parking right. ("Ample parking encourages driving that would not otherwise occur without it.")

4. Let transit work. (“While walkability benefits from good transit, good transit relies absolutely on walkability.")

The parking spaces may get in the way of the pedestrians - Cars should be last, not first

===

/see Post#4, here: http://www.greenener...showtopic=17441

[drbubb]

Asheville is more walkable than the Riverwalk or Rock Hill

 

 

Asheville tied for 2nd most walkable city in NC - Downtown Asheville ...

 

According to Walkscore.com, Asheville is one of North Carolina’s most walkable cities, second to Boone and tied with Chapel Hill.

What makes a city or neighborhood walkable? Walkable neighborhoods offer surprising benefits to the environment, our health, our finances, and our communities.

• Environment: Cars are a leading cause of climate change. Your feet are zero-pollution transportation machines.
  
• Health: The average resident of a walkable neighborhood weighs 6-10 pounds less than someone who lives in a sprawling neighborhood.¹
  
• Finances: One point of Walk Score is worth up to $3,000 of value for your property. Read the research report.
  
• Communities: Studies show that for every 10 minutes a person spends in a daily car commute, time spent in community activities falls by 10%.³
  

What makes a neighborhood walkable?

• A center: Walkable neighborhoods have a center, whether it’s a main street or a public space.
  
• People: Enough people for businesses to flourish and for public transit to run frequently.
  
• Mixed income, mixed use: Affordable housing located near businesses.
  
• Parks and public space: Plenty of public places to gather and play.
  
• Pedestrian design: Buildings are close to the street, parking lots are relegated to the back.
  
• Schools and workplaces: Close enough that most residents can walk from their homes.
  
• Complete streets: Streets designed for bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit.
  

What’s the most walkable area of Asheville? Well downtown, of course. While Asheville’s overall walkscore is only 57%, downtown Asheville scores at 97% because there’s a high density of nearby amenities.

• Small Walkable Towns in North Carolina and South Carolina
  Nov 12, 2010 – Large cities with a high population and well-defined neighborhoodsdefinitely fit the definition of “walkable.” Cities like Charlotte, NC, Asheville, ...
  

Walkable West Asheville: A creative, affordable urban village | The ...

Apr 30, 2010 – “There is a passion for the neighborhood,” said Joe Minicozzi, who with.... save on specials from your favorite retailers in Asheville, NC 28802 ...

[drbubb]

Q:

I am looking for a charming very walkable neighborhood near entertainment and shopping (in the Charlotte Area.) Where should I look?

 

A:

(Wow. So many RE Brokers responded, that it looked like a roll call ! "Answers' they provided, included ):

 

+ Southpark, Ballantyne, Dilworth and Lake Norman (Birkdale)

+ Historic Neighborhoods are a Best Bet. I live in Myers Park in a 1939 Cape Cod. I have a great little garden, I can walk to restaurants, the movie theatre, coffeeshops, and grocery stores. Dilworth is a great neighborhood. And plenty of others. Also consider Uptown Charlotte. There are great places to live like Fourth Ward and Wesley Heights.

+ Baxter Village in Fort Mill SC. and NoDa area of Charlotte

+ NODA is very artsy. They have a gallery crawl the 1st & 3rd Fridays of every month. Wonderful shops and dining, plus a movie theater all in walking distance

+ One of my favorite areas is Birkdale VIllage, a 52 acre mixed use development, located only 20 minutes north of Charlotte in Huntersville (one of the towns located along beautiful Lake Norman).

+ Only place to look is downtown Charlotte.

+ Check out South End and Wilmore - they are side-by-side, the light rail line runs through them, there is shopping, dining and nightlife plus they are less then 1 mile from the center of Uptown. You can walk to Uptown or take the train. The site http://www.SouthendCharlotte.com has photo tours of South End, Dilworth, Fourth Ward, and NoDa - all of which fit what you are looking for. http://www.LiveInWilmore.com does as well.

+ Check out http://www.HipHoods.com. We have info on all the hippest places to live.

 

Here's was one of my favorite responses, from a broker who clearly does not "get" what a Walkable neighborhood is.

I wonder how much time he spends outside his car?:

"Carson's Pond fits 100%. It's a gated community with 2 beautiful ponds, swimming pool and tennis courts. All major shopping and entertainment is within 5 mile radius."

 

Haha.When I'm asked about “walkable”, I usually think it has something to do with being able to get around on foot. But for a broker keen to sell real estate, and looking for labels to put on his product, it can mean something else, I suppose.

[drbubb]

BIRKDALE Case Study : Successful New Urbanism (at a price)

 

/source: BD Homes For sale: http://www.nc-lake-n...-at-lake-norman

 

Birkdale Village is a 52-acre New Urban development in the Town of Huntersville,

a suburb of Charlotte in Mecklenburg County, North Carolina. Rapid urban growth in the

Charlotte area prompted the Town of Huntersville to adopt a New Urban development

ordinance to avert conventional, low-density sprawl in favor of a more sustainable urban

form. The town justified its response, in part, due to the negative impacts of uncontrolled

sprawl on Lake Norman – a highly-valued resource for drinking water, recreation, and

natural beauty less than two miles from downtown Huntersville.

 

SIDEBAR ===================

: floorplans

 

Location: Minutes from Lake Norman in the prestigious Birkdale Village Community.

Residential : 320 apartments : 1-BR loft apts, 1, 2-BR garden apts with sunroom option,

2- and 3-bedroom townhomes

Other: 300,000 sf of retail space, and 200,000 sf of office space

BD Website: http://www.apartment...dalevillage.com

Town Map :: http://www.birkdalev...f/centermap.pdf

Interactive :: http://hk.bing.com/m...mNiaWQ9MTMzMTA=

The 52-acre site thus has a gross residential density of 6.2 units per acre. Since 7.4 acres

are dedicated to the McDowell Creek floodplain and have not been developed,

Birkdale Village also has a net density of 7.2 units per acre. (link below)

===========================

 

Three issues define how Birkdale Village impacted the Lake Norman watershed. These

issues derive from four land use policies the town used to guide development, and the

implementation of those policies through site design.

 

The first issue is Birkdale Village’s high level of imperviousness, but low level of

stormwater management. Two of the town’s land use policies combined to create this

outcome. First, the town adopted a New Urban development ordinance. New Urban

developments are highly impervious due to their design: high densities of mixed urban

land uses. Second, the town adopted a watershed overlay district ordinance intended to

limit imperviousness and require developers to provide stormwater management.

However, the ordinance did not provide clear standards for the maximum amount of

imperviousness allowed, or the stormwater management techniques best suited to control

and treat high volumes of urban runoff.

 

 

The second issue is Birkdale Village’s excess of poorly-designed parking. The town’s

parking policy relied on its parking ordinance. However, this ordinance had three

limitations. First, it did not specify a maximum limit on the total number of parking

spaces, as prescribed by New Urbanism. (ie, no more than three parking spaces per

1,000 square feet of mixed-use development.Second, it did not require that all parking be

hidden behind buildings, also prescribed by New Urbanism. Third, it did not require that

all parking be built in multi-level decks, as opposed to surface parking lots. Parking built

in decks generates less imperviousness and, therefore, less runoff than surface parking

lots that accommodate the same number of parking spaces

. . .

In the words of then-mayor Randy Quillen, the town “did not want to get run over by that sprawl everybody

talks about. We had to do something (Mitchell 2002, p. 28).” It was obvious to the town

that if trends continued, the rural charm and small-town feel that made Huntersville an

attractive community would be lost forever. Concern over this outcome motivated the

town to adopt a New Urban development ordinance.

. . .

The Village contains extensive parking... All blocks contain onstreet parking. Although

surface parking lots may be built upon in the future, planners and developers

do not anticipate this scenario through 2010.

===

/more: http://newurbanismwa...ale_village.pdf

/Map : https://maps.google....F-8&sa=N&tab=wl

/Learn more: http://www.birkdalevillage.net

 

Huntersv.28078: Ass'ment : Asking-- : PrpTax : Pct. / Land.sf : Apsf / House : Apsf / Built

8240TownleyRd $ 161.3K : $185.0K : $1,735E 1.07% : 3,049 :$60.7 1,500 :$123. /2001 : Zest$172.5k

[drbubb]

Here's another opinion on which cities are "Walkable" in NC and SC

 

Some of the cities and towns on our list of the Best Places to Live in North Carolina and South Carolina are among the towns or cities listed as “walkable” by Walkable Communities, Inc.:

• Asheville, NC
  
• Charlotte, NC
  
• Chapel Hill, NC
  
• Raleigh, NC
  
• Hendersonville, NC
  
• Charleston, SC
  
• Black Mountain, NC
  
• ===
  
• "Walkable towns or communities have a well defined core or town center surrounded by mixed use and mixed income neighborhoods interconnected by a rational system of streets, sidewalks, trails and other open spaces…”
  
• In terms of basic principles,"the town is designed for people."
  
• /source: http://placesofvalue...south-carolina/
  

[drbubb]

New Condo in Asheville : 60 North Market Street, Asheville, NC

 

Even Apartment-dwelling Hongkongers might like this development /

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2GZA40QHPk

 

Published on Nov 28, 2012

In the heart of downtown, this contemporary newer construct condo has wonderful views to the east and north of Town Mountain and Sunset Mountain. Plenty of natural light fill this spacious open floor plan. Nice balcony to enjoy the outdoors. Dedicated parking, gym and large clubroom with gas grill, full kitchen and dual fireplace to allow for additional entertaining. Building is near to theater, our famous local dining scene and many local shops.

Example of Sizes:

1BR/1ba : 0,824 sf

1BR/2bs : 1,042 sf - 1,210 sf

2BR/2ba : 1,269 sf - 1,648 sf

2BR/3ba : 1,648 sf - 1,668 sf

3BR/3ba : 1,967 sf

 

Unit / 60 N. Market Condom prices

#213 : $297,000 : 1BR, 1ba / 0,824? : $360 psf

780 SF - 2000+ SF penthouse units, 1-3 bed units

======

:

Plenty of natural light fill this spacious open floor plan. Nice balcony to enjoy the outdoors....

 

Asheville. 28801: Ass'ment : Asking-- : PrpTax : Pct. / Land.sf : Apsf / House : Apsf / Built

60N.Market#41: $1128K : $575.0S : $4,629E: 0.41% : 2,000E N/A: 3,246 :$177. /2008 : Zest.$1,400*Sold

60N.Market#31: $853.2K : $428.0S : $4,762E: 0.56% : 2,000E N/A: 2,396 :$179. /2008 : Zest.$961.4*Sold

60N.Market#30: $721.0K : $305.0S : $4,032E: 0.56% : 2,000E N/A: 1,734 :$176. /2008 : Zest.$713.0*Sold

60N.Market303: $600.0E : $365.0S : $4,000E: 0.??% : 2,000E N/A: 1,260 :$289. /2008 : Sold

[drbubb]

(Is this information game/set/match to win the Debate in favor of the Living Carfree ? ):

 

 

The Real Cost of Owning a car- More data here, as first posted in the Greenville section:

 

2) spending $8-10k per year is a crazy amount on a car though...:tape:

Where are you pulling these numbers from? Or maybe you are assuming the first year cost if you had to buy a car to live here? While you certainly COULD spend that much on a car' date=' you can easily spend much MUCH less than that. My wife and I each have a car. We carpool to work each day (16 mile round-trip) and limit the driving as much as we can, but we enjoy driving around to hunt for vintage furniture, visiting out of town friends, and playing rec sports and a few other things that having a car is useful for. Our total for all of 2012 for [b']BOTH[/b] cars was right around $2200 with taxes, insurance, gasoline, oil changes, etc.

 

So, while Greenville is not a great city to go completely without a car, you certainly don't have to spend a ton each year to own a car.

 

Okay.

I admit that I do not recall EXACTLY where that figure came from, but I believe that the figure was USD 8,000-9,000 per annum was the "average fully-loaded cost" of running a car for the average American, as reported on a recent Strong Towns.org podcast.

 

Many people do not fully-load the costs of car-owning. And even worse, some of the costs of car owning are passed on to others, through the way we finance our highways - They are subsidized by the Federal government, so non-driver are now paying for some of the costs of car owning. I wonder how much longer that cross-subsidy will continue?

 

Let me try to confirm my figure, by pulling some figures off the web...

 

This is a little out-of-date, by the 2006 figure from the US government was a little bit over $8,000 per annum:

 

"Government Estimates

According to Consumer Expenditures in 2006, released in February of 2008 by the U.S. Department of Labor's U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average vehicle costs $8,003 per year to own and operate. The breakdown of the figure comes to $3,421 for purchasing the vehicle, $2,227 in gasoline and motor oil expenses, and $2,355 in other vehicle-related costs."

 

Source: The True Cost Of Owning A Car

 

Obviously, the higher income people have, the more they are willing to spend on their cars. I reckon that gasoline prices today are near where they were (on average) during 2006, and maybe a bit lower than they were in 2007-8, when oil prices peaked. People are driving less, but other costs like new car purchase prices, and insurance costs may be higher today.

 

Maybe someone who is better at doing web research that I can get a more up-to-date figure.

 

As for the Cross-subsidies, that non-drivers (like me) make to the Car-dependent, Chuck Marohn talks about this in his latest Strong Towns podcast:

 

MP3-Highways : http://www.strongtowns.org/storage/podcasts/2013/020713_highways.mp3

 

Basically, highways are VERY expensive to maintain, and most states are not getting anything like enough money to cover the costs from gasoline taxes. (For instance, North Carolina will need an extra $22 Billion over the next 30 years to fund its highway-related costs*, says Marohn.) So the shortfalls from gasoline tax are now getting funded through new bond issues, and through the state sales tax. If ALL of the costs of maintaining the highways were put into gasoline taxes, then the price of gasoline would go up by $2-3 per gallon.

 

This is tolerated politically because so many people drive, and the car-dependent are able to use the political process down the throats of the Carfree - although this is patently unfair. The problem now is that highway maintenance costs are rising much faster than revenues from the gasoline tax, and so it is getting harder and harder to fund these costs through cross subsidies.

 

Marohn quotes those who are talking openly about abandoning some old highways, raising gasoline taxes, and charging drivers for driving on a per mile. However you look at the real data, it should be crystal clear that the costs of driving are likely to rise and rise. I want to avoid that cash drain, if I can, by living carfree. It makes logical sense in my view of the world - I hate to be a sitting duck for future tax increases.

 

*This comes from an article from the McClatchy news service, entitled:

"U.S. keeps building new highways while letting old ones crumble"

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/02/03/181506/us-keeps-building-new-highways.html#storylink=cpy

[drbubb]

A BIG ARGUMENT For Small Towns (in NC / SC):

 

Want to know why people are fleeing the north for places like Boone/Blowing Rock?

 

Taxes:

Here is a house in Boone, NC in the mountains near Asheville - relatively similar climate to Upstate NY

Tax Assessment of house: $142,000

Taxes Owed for 2011: $604

See for yourself:

327 W Laurel Crk, Boone, NC 28607 - Zillow

 

Here is a house in Clinton, NY near Utica and Hamilton College:

Tax Assessment of house: $158,600

Taxes Owed for 2011: $9,051

See for yourself:

26 Fountain St, Clinton, NY 13323 - Zillow

 

That's a difference of $8,447 PER YEAR!.

What would you do with an extra $8,500 in your pocket? Fund your Roth every year? Pay for a kid's college education? Send your kid to private school?

It makes a HUGE difference to folks who are buying houses in $150k-175k range.

===

/source: http://www.city-data...eing-north.html

 

Want to save another $8,000 per year?

Then, ditch the car altogether !

/see: http://www.city-data.com/forum/urban-planning/1794286-real-cost-owning-car-8-000-a.html

[drbubb]

MORE Cost Comparisons... from a C-D thread

 

We have a house in Waynesville and a house in South Florida. Taxes are $2100 in Wville and about $9K Fl. Insurance is $500 in Waynesville and $5k in Florida. HOA are $400 in NC and $3' date='000 in Fl. Electric is around $500 a year in NC, around $3,000 in Fl. We pay for water in Fl and have a well in NC. Gas costs about $500 in NC, $ in Fl.

 

We don't have any mortages and can maintain our NC house for peanuts compared to the Fl. house. If the big economic Waynesville for less than $5k a year, including internet and Direct TV. The Fl. house would cost around $24-30K a year.

 

Thats why people are moving to NC. So long as we can afford it, we'll keep both houses, but if push comes to shove, we're heading for the mountains.[/quote']

 

In the Northeast, you are paying for all the people living off the state,

either as state dependents, or as state employees.

 

You are also paying for an entrenched class of rentiers, who own property,

and are collecting high rents.

 

If you want to save money, you need to go somewhere that these sorts of parasites

have not yet become well-entrenched.

[drbubb]

ASHEVILLE : Walkscores of "downtown" Condos

 

WS: Asheville. 28801: Ass'ment : Asking-- : PrpTax : Pct. / Land.sf : Apsf / House : Apsf / Built : Zest.

98: 84W.Walnut #203 : $XXX.xK : $259.9K : $2,500E: 1.00% : 1,200E N/A: 0,600 :$433. /1925 : $221.2K

95: 37HiawasseeW306: $XXX.xK : $181.5K : $2,000E: 1.00% : 1,200E N/A: 0,600 :$302. /1965 : $163.4K

92: 30S.Lexington301 : $XXX.xK : $419.0K : $2,000E: 1.00% : 2,000E N/A: 1,200 :$349. /2006 : Zest.$352.6K

91: 190 Brd'way#409 : $XXX.xK : $309.9K : $3,000E: 1.00% : 1,500E N/A: 0,800 :$387. /2008 : $263.6K

65: 5 FarleighSt.#201 : $XXX.xK : $323.0K : $3,000E: 1.00% : 1,500E N/A: 1,100 :$294. /2009 : $274.5K

63: 42SchenckPkB07 : $XXX.xK : $284.0K : $3,000E: 1.00% : 1,500E N/A: 1,000 :$284. /2009 : $242.2K

==================

 

Description: 30S.Lexington301

Beautiful contemporary condo in the heart of Asheville shops, cafes and vibrant scene. Rare two bedroom unit with all the right features. Deeded secure parking. Juliet balconies, granite, bamboo, stainless steel appliances, storage, gas range. Lots of upgrades in this unit. Asheville's premier condominium with the best HOA and lowest dues around. Lease in place.

[freekb]

Asheville is more walkable than the Riverwalk or Rock Hill

 

 

Asheville tied for 2nd most walkable city in NC - Downtown Asheville ...

 

According to Walkscore.com, Asheville is one of North Carolina’s most walkable cities, second to Boone and tied with Chapel Hill.

What makes a city or neighborhood walkable? Walkable neighborhoods offer surprising benefits to the environment, our health, our finances, and our communities.

• Environment: Cars are a leading cause of climate change. Your feet are zero-pollution transportation machines.
  
• Health: The average resident of a walkable neighborhood weighs 6-10 pounds less than someone who lives in a sprawling neighborhood.¹
  
• Finances: One point of Walk Score is worth up to $3,000 of value for your property. Read the research report.
  
• Communities: Studies show that for every 10 minutes a person spends in a daily car commute, time spent in community activities falls by 10%.³
  

What makes a neighborhood walkable?

• A center: Walkable neighborhoods have a center, whether it’s a main street or a public space.
  
• People: Enough people for businesses to flourish and for public transit to run frequently.
  
• Mixed income, mixed use: Affordable housing located near businesses.
  
• Parks and public space: Plenty of public places to gather and play.
  
• Pedestrian design: Buildings are close to the street, parking lots are relegated to the back.
  
• Schools and workplaces: Close enough that most residents can walk from their homes.
  
• Complete streets: Streets designed for bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit.
  

What’s the most walkable area of Asheville? Well downtown, of course. While Asheville’s overall walkscore is only 57%, downtown Asheville scores at 97% because there’s a high density of nearby amenities.

• Small Walkable Towns in North Carolina and South Carolina
  Nov 12, 2010 – Large cities with a high population and well-defined neighborhoodsdefinitely fit the definition of “walkable.” Cities like Charlotte, NC, Asheville, ...
  

Walkable West Asheville: A creative, affordable urban village | The ...

Apr 30, 2010 – “There is a passion for the neighborhood,” said Joe Minicozzi, who with.... save on specials from your favorite retailers in Asheville, NC 28802 ...

 

 

Confirming my earlier points about art/music scenes: Asheville has a big hippy, art & electronic music scene (TOUCH Sahamadi, Moog fest). Heck, even I know of the place because I'm into the music.

But...

"...The housing market burst almost a year ago and this place still has the highest housing prices in North Carolina. Rent here is astronomical compared to any other location in NC..."

"...extremely difficult to find work in Asheville, and that the city shuts down, more or less, during the weekend. It is a city without a diversified economy; it is excessively reliant on tourism and the summer elite income."

"... It was actually a vacation spot during the summer for the rich in Charleston, SC that came up to the mountains to escape the heat of the coast."

 

See comments http://www.yelp.co.u...ville-asheville

 

Perhaps trust the hippy/arts/music scene goes to find liveable places, but not necessarily viable ones from a wider economic perspective.

Does it have the infrastructure to support knowledge workers?

 

This http://www.wired.co....-fibre article about Google Fibre (1 Gbps / $70 month) is enabling a tech-startup scene. Cheap to live, all the infrastructure you need for a tech company.

 

Is this a way forward?

Take smaller, 'remote', liveable towns like Asheville with existing minor universities and turn them in tech/finance/research hubs backed by world class tech-infrastructure.

 

Ray Dalio runs his Bridgewater hegefund from Westport, 50 miles out of Manhattan. Certainly different from Mayfair where London's hedgies are.

 

Why minor universities: it creates opportunities for great academics stuck at leading universities that currently have no opportunity for tenure or running their own research agenda.

 

I know of some departments in London's minor uni's that've been packed to the gills with former Oxbridge people over the last decade. Now they're rising fast in the rankings.

With a little luck, you get spin-offs and increased educational quality across the board, all strengthing the case for the town.

[drbubb]

Thanks, FreeKB

 

I like your thinking on this.

If/when I visit, I will have my eyes opened for opportunities in that direction.

But the high prices (vs. Greenville, and even Charlotte - are a big off-putting.)

[freekb]

Thanks, FreeKB

 

I like your thinking on this.

If/when I visit, I will have my eyes opened for opportunities in that direction.

But the high prices (vs. Greenville, and even Charlotte - are a big off-putting.)

 

Thanks DrBubb.

 

The more I ponder on it the more I see it as a case of over-optimization & trend-following towards centralization (happening now), which will be followed by a counter trend, (over) optimizing in the opposite direction decentralization.

It's no different from corporations diversifying for growth vs focussing on core business.

 

Though I don't buy into periodic cycles as a predictive model (ala Kondratiev, Harrison,...), I do think that it is in human nature to take an approach too far, discover the flaws, eventually hitting the system limits and then try to fix those by going in the opposite direction, over do it and back again.

The period and amplitude of the 'cycle' is variable and it's a really long term process, therefore it's more a philosophical tool than a decision making tool.

 

Worse, it's hard to see the side-effects of hitting the limits to an approach ("system limits") so the counter move may not go in the expected opposing direction, because the compensating behaviour may focus on the side-effects more than the root problem.

 

A simple example is how we treat the effects of diseases of modernity like obesity, heart disease,.... Rather than being physically active and eating less as a way of life, we just technologize/medicalize the whole thing (gyms, drugs, fake sweetners), giving rise to entire industries trying to 'fix' the problem.

If we can come up with what looks like a quick fix or just a promise to fix it, I fully expect the swing to go in that direction, rather than address the fundamentals. Some will try to fix the root cause, but most aren't interested in that. It's perhaps easier to do root cause fixes in business/science/engineering than it is in 'real life'.

[drbubb]

A little out of date, but an encouraging trend...

 

 

Strong Business and Labor Climate Propels South Carolina to Number Two Overall

 

Posted October 22nd, 2012 by Area Development Magazine

 

South Carolina is on a roll — the Palmetto State brought in a total investment of $3.37 billion from new and expanding businesses in 2011. Manufacturing is also on the mend, with total exports up by 21 percent last year. These are just some of the reasons South Carolina was ranked second by the consultants among the Top States for Doing Business, up from fourth place in 2011.

===

/more: http://www.rockhillu...ber-two-overall

[freekb]

Same theme, but (large) city and technology focussed. Perhaps the trend is towards quality (amenities + talent) urban areas. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444914904577619441778073340.html

 

"Still, escaping sprawl is only part of the explanation. There are also the distinct lifestyle advantages of setting up shop in the hurly-burly of real urban districts. Compared with previous generations, today's younger techies are less interested in owning cars and big houses. They prefer to live in central locations, where they can rent an apartment and use transit or walk or bike to work, and where there are plenty of nearby options for socializing during nonwork hours."

 

and

"Or, as one high-tech entrepreneur told the authors of the Centre for London report: "We moved here out of pressure from the [software] developers to move somewhere better. And by better, I think they mean somewhere which has lots of bars and lots of places you can eat."

 

It certainly supports some of the property market trends, where London and the like (San Francisco, median house price just hit $1M) perform much stronger than elsewhere.

[drbubb]

That way of living is not very "family oriented", but I get the attractions