Born to Drive - Born to Run / The Petrol poll

[drbubb]

Bruce Springsteen said it well ... YouTube video :

 

In the day we sweat it out in the streets of a runaway American dream

At night we ride through mansions of glory in suicide machines

Sprung from cages out on Highway 9

Chrome wheeled, fuel injected

And steppin’ out over the line

Baby this town rips the bones from your back

It’s a death trap, it’s a suicide rap

We gotta get out while we’re young

‘Cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run

 

But such habits are getting very expensive./

And how much longer acn Americans afoord to buy or steal gasoline?

 

And observer on TheOilDrum, believes that the US has seen "Peak Travel"

source: TOD article

 

Are we seeing the same in the UK yet?

[drbubb]

Americans Drove 1.4 Billion Fewer Highway Miles in April of 2008 than in April 2007

While Fuel Prices and Transit Ridership Are Both on the Rise

 

Sixth Month of Declining Vehicle Miles Traveled Signals Need to Find New Revenue Sources for Highway and Transit Programs, Transportation Secretary Mary E. Peters Says

 

WASHINGTON – At a time of record-high gas prices and a corresponding surge in transit ridership, Americans are driving less for the sixth month in a row, highlighting the need to find a more sustainable and effective way to fund highway construction and maintenance, said U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary E. Peters.

 

The Secretary said that Americans drove 1.4 billion fewer highway miles in April 2008 than at the same time a year earlier and 400 million miles less than in March of this year. She added that vehicle miles traveled (VMT) on all public roads for April 2008 fell 1.8 percent as compared with April 2007 travel. This marks a decline of nearly 20 billion miles traveled this year, and nearly 30 billion miles traveled since November.

 

“We’re burning less fuel as energy costs change driving patterns, steer people toward more fuel efficient vehicles and encourage more to use transit. Which is exactly why we need a more effective funding source than the gas tax,” Secretary Peters said.

[drbubb]

HORSES OR CARS - which is more sutainable?

 

This comment on TOD thread about RIDING HORSES, rather than driving Cars made me laugh, and think too:

 

"Arguably it was even less sustainable than the automobile. Remember at the time that Henry Ford introduced the model T cities were having MAJOR polution (and disease) problems due to massive amounts of horse poop. Imagine if every car on the road left a steaming pile everyhwere it went...and you think diesel exhaust is dirty! In addition feeding the many millions of horses was putting a strain on food supplies.

 

"The normal city horse produced between fifteen and thirty-five pounds of manure a day and about a quart of urine, usually distributed along the course of its route or deposited in the stable. "

[wednesday2]

Tried voting Dr.Bubb but got a fatal error

 

edit: seemed to have accepted the vote anyway

[drbubb]

Tried voting Dr.Bubb but got a fatal error

 

I dont know why that happens - why you got the message.

But it seems to record the vote anyway.

 

Glory Days (Springsteen song) seem to be over now.

Here's what I posted on the page for the song:

 

"It's great isn't it?

Mindless, stupid, and wasteful use of the world's resources.

Felt good at the time though."

 

Is it possible that the younger generation will really start to get the message,

and get their testosterone kicks from something other than cruising around, looking for chicks?

 

 

 

[FLASH]

Is it possible that the younger generation will really start to get the message,

and get their testosterone kicks from something other than cruising around, looking for chicks?

 

I think my generation, myself included who will struggle to change are ways and will only cut down when forced to beacuse the oil is taken away from them. Very few will have the foresight to plan ahead and make the necessary changes. Hopeful it will be easier for the next few generations as they will not miss what they have never had.

[drbubb]

I think my generation, myself included who will struggle to change are ways and will only cut down when forced to beacuse the oil is taken away from them. Very few will have the foresight to plan ahead and make the necessary changes. Hopeful it will be easier for the next few generations as they will not miss what they have never had.

 

I should have added another question about:

 

+ Planning for yourself (ie going carfree)

vs.

+ Planning for society (ie changing tax levels, building mass transit)

 

The first is easier than the second.

And it would be interesting to know whether people want both types of planning

 

[enrieb]

I should have added another question about:

 

+ Planning for yourself (ie going carfree)

vs.

+ Planning for society (ie changing tax levels, building mass transit)

 

The first is easier than the second.

And it would be interesting to know whether people want both types of planning

 

I think another option should be for a combination of both the above. As long as governments role is within limits because there are somethings such as building mass transit systems that only governments or large companies can do. Planning as an individual is equally important unfortunately many people in society these days just expect the government to provide for them whether that be financially, health, security, education etc...

[drbubb]

Can someone please enlighten me?

 

How much are petrol prices now in London? In the UK? In Europe?

 

Over $8 per gallon [ 0 ] [0.00%] - a guess only

$6-8 per gallon [ 11 ] [55.00%]

 

I added the $6-8 category, and "over $8", since so many had answered "over $6"?

 

I split the 11 votes: 5 over $8, 6 in the $6-8 range

 

WHAT'S OBVIOUS is that US prices near $4 are much lower than prices in UK and Europe

[Crazy88s]

Can someone please enlighten me?

 

How much are petrol prices now in London? In the UK? In Europe?

 

Over $8 per gallon [ 0 ] [0.00%] - a guess only

$6-8 per gallon [ 11 ] [55.00%]

 

I added the $6-8 category, and "over $8", since so many had answered "over $6"?

 

I split the 11 votes: 5 over $8, 6 in the $6-8 range

 

WHAT'S OBVIOUS is that US prices near $4 are much lower than prices in UK and Europe

 

 

For a start are we talking US or UK Gallons

 

British gallon= 4,54609 liters

The american gallon= 3,78541 liters

 

Anyway Diesel here (in the UK) is approx 1.30GBP so at approx 2.00 USD/GBP

 

9.83 USD/US Gallon

11.82 USD/UK Gallon

 

So whichever way you cut it is above 8$!!!

 

Personally I am limiting my trips and planning better.

 

I would love to use public transport but is not convenient right now, would add 1.5 hours onto my day for a 12 mile cross country commute.

[Joe90]

The Eagles have got it. Mind you they can afford to.

 

"Long Road Out Of Eden"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHIROoYpRyQ

[drbubb]

11 Votes of "Over $6 per gallon", plus one new vote, I have allocated as follows:

 

How much is gasoline / petrol where you are?

Over $10 per gallon [ 2 ] [9.52%]

$8-10 per gallon [ 6 ] [23.81%]

$6-8 per gallon [ 5 ] [23.81%]

 

Should i have put more in the "Over $10" and $8 -10" categories??

 

== ==

 

I am beginning to see that Americans are (still !) very, very spoiled to have gasoline prices near $4.

With price so long below $2 in recent years, no wonder Americans have made so much mal-investment in

Stranded Suburbs.

 

Greed, Speculation, and easy money, met "poor pricing signals" from gasoline that was far too cheap.

Result: Mal-investment of Trillions, which will now need to be written off or restructured

[wren]

95-octane is (on average) €1.56 a litre in Finland.

 

1 American gallon= 3.78541 litres

 

So, 1.56 x 1.56 (US$/€) x 3.78541 (USgal/litre) = US$9.21 a gallon.

 

Typical of much of the northern Eurozone, I believe.

[sylvester]

About $2.10 a litre here in NZD.

 

2.1 x 0.762743 (NZD/USD) x 3.78541 (USgal/litre) =US$6.06

 

The Kiwis are shocked it is so high and I can't believe how cheap it is every time I go to fill up :-)

 

I guess that will change when I start earning NZ$ though...

[drbubb]

In America, the message is sinking in (at last!)

 

America's Money: Gas crunch hits home

The record-high price of gasoline is putting a strain on motorists - and spurring some to shift their habits. Here are their stories.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/news/0...oney_topstories

 

1 of 39 Steve Pratt: Carpool connection

Carpooling helps Steve Pratt cut down on costs and stress.

 

I live in Toledo, Ohio, and work near the Detroit Metro Airport. The commute was really starting to become a burden on me. Daily, I would drive 45 miles one way.

 

The worst part of making a commute that long for me is that I really feel like I'm wasting resources. Yes, it was costing me $300 a month in gas, which is more than my car payment, but you start to feel like there has to be a better way.

 

As soon as gas hit $3.50 a gallon, I couldn't take it anymore. I started monitoring the different carpooling Web sites and ended up posting on a few.

 

After a month of waiting and thinking no one would ever reply, my posting on erideshare.com got a response. I worked out a few details with someone making a similar commute and we've been carpooling ever since.

 

Never having done that before, I wondered if it would be one big, awkward experience. But the guy I'm carpooling with turned out to be really interesting. The drive is a lot easier now that I have someone to talk to and we are both benefiting from it monetarily.

 

It turns out that carpooling actually reduced my stress levels and saved me some money, which reduced my stress level even further!!!

== ==

 

Abby Wear: Moving to escape high gas

 

Abby and Ben Wear moved closer to work to cut the cost of their commute.

 

My husband and I both work for the same state agency. We were commuting 140 miles a day round trip. We took the commuter bus because we could not afford to commute by car.

 

However, the price of gas is bound to increase the price of all transportation, including public. So, we decided to move closer to work.

 

We now commute 4 miles a day to work. The cost of our housing is considerably higher now but now we only fill our gas tanks once a month and avoid a three-hour round-trip daily commute. Therefore, we have decided to sell one of our cars.

 

The problem now is that with the economy in such bad shape overall, it seems no one is buying high-ticket items. So, until we get rid of at least one car payment, we won't realize any savings from our move.

 

== ==

 

7 of 39 Chris Metsch: Ditching the car

Chris and Noemi Metsch only use their car for emergencies.

 

Gas is eating up our money. We decided to cut down and not drive. My wife uses a bus pass that costs $20 a month. That saves lots of money compared to spending $8 every day for gas.

 

We look at all ads in the newspaper for which stores are cheaper for buying fruit and vegetables. We're both deaf parents on a low income. My wife is the only one who works.

 

We take our son to the park and go to the library. My son loves to be on the bus. We use our car only for emergencies. For other things we take the bus or walk.

 

We save about $400 by cutting down on gas, food and diapers. We hope the government can see that lots of people with disabilities can't afford living costs with high rent, food and gas. Now many with disabilities are struggling to get a job.

== ==

 

Warren Jackson: Carpooling pays off

 

High gas prices pushed Warren Jackson to start carpooling. Now he says he'll "never go back to commuting alone."

 

I commute 72 miles round trip each day. I've started carpooling with three other people. I've cut my commute gas consumption by near 70%. I used to fill up every 3.5 days and now it is every 15 days.

 

In two and half months we have saved 12,000 commute miles between us. The best part is the social aspect of carpooling. I learn about restaurants, movies, events, investments, etc from my carpool buddies.

 

Also driving in traffic is much less stressful if you are in a conversation with others. The best thing of all is that you can immediately start carpooling. You don't need big new expenditures or special government legislation. I will never go back to commuting alone - even if gasoline prices drop

 

== ==

 

((THE CARFREES - What, me worry? ))

 

Jim Pavlock: Beating the crunch

 

City dweller Jim Pavlock commutes by foot.

 

Quite honestly, the gas crunch has not affected me really at all. I've chosen to live near the Philadelphia Museum of Art and walk to work on a path lined with beautiful historic buildings and fountains.

 

People who used to live in the suburbs are flocking to live in Center City. I have all the green space I need within blocks -- Fairmount Park is the largest public park in the country and Kelly Drive is lined with joggers, bladers and bikers.

 

If more people chose to live in the cities, and more cities had extensive public transportation like Philadelphia, people wouldn't feel the pinch near as much.

== ==

 

Jonathan MacDonald: What fuel crunch?

Jonathan MacDonald isn't losing any sleep over high gas prices. He relies mostly on mass transit.

 

I saw this coming a few years ago. I live in a car-dependent suburban area of New Jersey, but I've structured my life so that I don't have to drive very much.

 

If I need to to go NYC, I can walk to a train station. My commute is currently 6 miles round trip, and after I move into my new townhouse, it'll be 25 miles round trip, and I will be a short drive from NYC trains.

 

Daily gas costs will still only be $4-$5 a day, and I'm fine even if gas hits $15 a gallon. Granted, if gas hits $15 a gallon, I might not have a job to go to, but the point is this: I said no to a big SUV and a big house in the exurbs.

 

 

 

(( Many others are changing habits, driving less, biking more ...etc. ))

 

Gasoline demand is being destroyed by these changes

[drbubb]

THE LOSERS

 

Rocky Smith: Rural family takes hit

 

Rural families like Rocky Smith's are getting hammered by price rises.

 

Our family lives in a rural area in Ohio. My wife and I both commute 17 miles each way to work every day.

 

Needless to say with fuel prices more than tripling in a three-year period, along with food prices rising, there just isn't as much money available for extra things.

 

Wages have been stagnant, in no way keeping up with all the increases. To me this is a recession without doubt! More like depression really.

 

Those who live outside the urban areas really are getting hammered for fuel and being compensated very little, if at all.

== ==

 

Hmm.

They seem to be focussed on the difference between city living, and rural,

without enough focus on the stranded suburbs

 

== ==

 

Lydia Lawrence: Draining the wallet

 

Newlyweds Lydia and Andrew Lawrence have adjusted their spending, but are still feeling squeezed.

 

My husband and I got married in June of 2007 and have been enjoying our first year of wedded bliss. But the gas crunch has really put a damper on things.

 

We have cut back on our nights out and eating meals out is a rare luxury. Living in a town like Charleston, it's tough to resist those wonderful restaurants.

 

To bring in more money, I took a weekend job at the mall. It helps us to get clothes at a reasonable price. But of course, I sacrifice my weekends to stand on my feet all day.

 

We've worked around the gas crunch as best we can. I approached my boss about the expense of driving to work and she's allowing me to work from home one or two days a week to save money. Even then it's still a lot to fill up.

 

Trips to the beach and visiting college friends are pretty much out of the question. The gas crisis is not only draining our wallets, but sucking the joy out of our 20s as well.

== ==

 

These "temporary" measure are going to have to become permanent.

What will that do to her career prospects?

 

== ==

 

Travis Barnhart: Taking toll on marriage

 

Travis Barnhart says the high price of gas is tightening the family budget, which adds strain on his marriage.

 

My wife and I share one car. With rising gas prices we have had to cut back on everything from food to spending time going out together. Not only do rising prices hurt the wallet, they hurt a marriage.

 

Between the two of us we drive about four hours a day. I drive 120 miles round trip to work, she drives 70 miles round trip to go take care of her 88-year-old grandmother. We also have to drive our daughter to and from school since we live so far away.

 

Our marriage has taken a huge downward turn without us being able to spend time together away from the house and due to the lack of money. Rising gas prices, in turn, raise the price of everything else, which hurts families all over the country.

== ==

 

(( Some folks are too thick or too selfish to make sensible tradeoffs and cutbacks. ))

 

== ==

 

Deidra Hodge: Stretched paycheck

 

Deidra Hodge (pictured with her husband, Corey) shells out half her paycheck to pay for gas.

 

When gas started to rise, it was hard to cope at first. With gas getting as high as $3.59 a gallon now, I'm spending almost half my paycheck a week in gas -- even with my gas-saving 2001 Dodge Neon.

 

I travel about 60 miles round trip to work everyday. It's almost cheaper to stay home and be a stay-at-home wife again. My husband's car runs on 93 octane which is nearly $3.99 a gallon at some places.

 

What are we to do when it becomes too expensive to travel to work? I'm trying to drive slower, trying not to burn gas as fast, but I have to use the interstate and driving less than 70 mph, people nearly run you over.

 

Gas prices, food prices, etc... they're going up but the prices of my other bills aren't going down. If gas doesn't go down soon, how are we going to afford anything other than filling up our tanks?

 

[id5]

...

Are we seeing the same in the UK yet?

In the majority of the US the cities and towns are really standalone and the effect is that most commutes do not really affect another city or major town. The arrangement of cities to towns resembles a hub – spoke arrangement.

 

It’s a bit different in the UK as the cities are closer geographically and commutes interfere with each other. In the UK you may live in Birmingham but commute to London for work, there are people that do this by car because of the lack of cohesive public transport means they cannot get from one place to another faster than a car journey and often no cheaper than the car journey. Also happening along the same route are other commutes, Leicester to Coventry, Northampton to Milton Keynes, Dunstable to Watford, etc. The majority of the UK is heavily populated and is best represented by a big grid where single accidents cause major holdups. The net effect of this is that it is very difficult to get anywhere, traffic is always busy nearly every day and there is a huge reliance on the car for most travel outside of a very few major cities. The UK commuter is used to spending far more than the average US citizen on fuel for commute and does not use low MPG vehicles for that commute unless money is no object.

 

The effects from fuel increases are starting to be felt, the truckers are starting fuel protests again, people are looking into LPG conversions, adding reclaimed cooking oils to diesel, trading down for an even higher MPG vehicle but most people have no choice as they have already done what they can to reduce their costs.

 

[drbubb]

The majority of the UK is heavily populated and is best represented by a big grid where single accidents cause major holdups. The net effect of this is that it is very difficult to get anywhere, traffic is always busy nearly every day and there is a huge reliance on the car for most travel outside of a very few major cities. The UK commuter is used to spending far more than the average US citizen on fuel for commute and does not use low MPG vehicles for that commute unless money is no object.

 

I agree with most of that.

Low gasoline taxes in the US, at the same time as aggressive finance created a property bubble,

helped to encourage MASSIVE MAL-INVESTMENT in the now-stranded suburbs of the US

 

Within the UK, less investment went into stranded suburbs, because petrol prices were higher,

thanks to high petrol taxes

 

Dennis Thomason:

" I couldn't even imagine trying to raise a family in these uncertain times. My three sons are extended about as far as they can be, and the oldest one was just downsized due to escalating costs that can be attributed directly to the rising petroleum cost.

 

It appears in this rural area of Indiana that not only do we not have many jobs, but the jobs that are available in Indianapolis are impossible to commute to because of soaring gas costs. If someone is trying to lower the standard of living for the so-called middle class, I think that they have managed to complete that task. "

/see: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/news/0...ple_gas/31.html

 

Americans lowered their own living standards, by a very bad bet on continued low oil prices

 

[id5]

...

Within the UK, less investment went into stranded suburbs, because petrol prices were higher,

thanks to high petrol taxes

...

Americans lowered their own living standards, by a very bad bet on continued low oil prices

 

Yes, petrol prices in the UK have been high for a very long time due to taxes so we have the reverse of stranded suburbs, we have lots of little well off village enclaves. There is little rural public transport and the village dwellers have to use the car for the commute, the less well off cannot afford to live in the villages as they cannot afford the transport costs. The less well off tend to live in suburbs on the edge of the large towns and cities where public transport still runs, or in the older derelict central areas where developers are slowly buying up properties in order to develop hence the cheap rental cost. The less well off that used to be able to afford to live in some of the villages have had to drop their quality of life to stay employed due in the main to transport costs and lack of an effective public transport system.