azazel

You could try bairds, they advertise the prices they pay on their website.

Can anyone suggest a good gold price chart for android phones? Does bullion vault charts work? Thanks

''Since the housing bust began, the average U.S. home has lost better than 70% of its value in gold. It’s dropped nearly 80% since the gold-market found its own floor back in the early spring of 2001.''

 

 

But not at 'rock bottom prices just yet'. This despite house sizes doubling.

 

71oz in 1934, 77 in 1980, and in 2011, 103oz. Definately viewing time and low offers for the US. Wish it was so for the UK. Will it ever be...? I suppose we are 73% off in gold in the UK and bugger all nominal discount.

 

 

Does it look good to be buying a house now though? Mybe gold has a while to run.

I have seen some nice reductions but houses here in UK are still ridiculously over priced relative to earnings as you can see from this chart

Houses are still overpriced relative to gold, but its getting closer to fair value...

Great post on the hpc website by 50squiff

"Calling gold a ponzi scheme - how hubristic and ahistorical can you be?

If you believe gold is following a conventional bubble cycle, then presumably at the top, euphoric investors will declare a 'new paradigm' and proclaim gold to be the only true money. The obvious flaw in this interpretation is that gold advocates aren't calling for a new paradigm at all. On the contrary, Gold bugs are drawing on a paradigm that is older than the Old Testament. No 'new era', tortured logic or pyramiding of credit required.

Conversely, it is the born-again Keynsians and vehemently anti-gold crowd that need to justify their new paradigm. They seem to possess an infallible belief in violent Western monopolies and their ability to dictate monetary affairs through digital alchemy. On the contrary, history suggests that monetary regimes have a remarkable tendency to self-destruct. If you believe this time it's different, then good luck to you."

New members are coming across from HPC

 

 

 

Is "Bruce Banner" doing all the banning on HPC ?

I didnt think he was a moderator although he really hates those who understand gold. I think the unreasonable banning is due to the fact that most of the moderators hate gold but wish they had bought some when they were busy over moderating discussion of it in the main forum back in 2008. Their cash is king is devaluing with house prices only falling gently, whilst gold is soaring. They must be pretty bitter about it, hence their irrational banning of anyone who reminds them of their mistake! Its quite entertaining really....

I can't see large drops in gold here what with the euro crisis & the dollar debt ceiling crisis. I guess there is the chance of a take down by the ptb in the same fashion as the silver, but they can't keep that up forever.

I appear to have been banned on HPC as well. None of my posts are appearing.

The mods are out of control and are hell bent on wreaking whats left of the site. Their banning of anyone who's views they don't agree with is like sticking their fingers in their ears and going la la la in the face of reality.

I have just tried to post the graph below to the new HPC gold thread and have realised that I cannot post to it anymore. They really are ahead of the curve.

 

Have they banned you too then Pix? Ive been banned for no reason. I had my posting ability censored by the mods as I quoted and linked from here what cgnao said about the fall of the pound v euro and then I was banned when I requested that the restrictions be lifted. The place is a waste of time and pinning a new gold thread in the main discussion area is really an admittion that they made a huge mistake that largely undermines the basis of their website. Yes there will be a huge house price crash, but mainly when priced in gold. They may be able to reverse their mistake but golds double the price and they're three years too late. Its a shame that they may have discouraged some from benefiting from it.

....and now a pinned 'trial' Gold thread on the HPC main board.

 

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=166806

Clearly the public phase of the gold bull is here.....All the years they have tried to discourage discussions about gold and now that what the goldbugs have said is proving to be correct, they are encouraging gold to be discussed!! Three years too late!!

Regarding gold, Martin Armstrong thinks "We are due for a correction – It’s Just Time. The months ahead are September and November in particular for turning points."

http://www.martinarmstrong.org/files/The%20Fate%20of%20Gold%20and%20Oil%20Front%20Runner%2007-04-2011.pdf

GF, you and Cg are the reason I and my family looked into pm's and why we are in a much better position now than we could have been.

I thank you for your efforts, and hold your opinion in the highest of regard. Whatever the reason for your posting less, I hope you will remember the many that have been helped by you,and are very grateful.

Yer me too. Im also glad of Goldfingers buy and hold advice as I would have been lousy at trading. Cgnao stark warnings and dramatic posting style spurred me into buying gold and silver and goldfingers sensible ratios to houses etc made a great case for gold. Thanks guys and please keep posting!!!

.

Good point...

Hi ML, I'm good at the mo enjoying a life of leisure.... though will start manual labouring myself on a long time acquaintance's orchard next week for a month or so. Funds earned will go into a pretty flash metal [gold] detector, which will be put to work in the Central Otago/ Queenstown area this summer. Bring it on.

 

All you say in regard to "printing" I see as part of the equation. Other aspects such as the deflation of asset prices, and then currencies against gold, bring me to a novel view of things which seeks to accomodate both inflationary and deflationary aspects. The crucial point is that "money printing" will not lead simply to more money chasing goods and assets, and hence conventional inflation. Rather, QE adds to the debt burden on currencies/ economies, this in turn weakens currencies against gold [now being effectively monetized]. This at the international level. At the national level, continued debt deflation leads to the possiblity of fiat currencies appreciating against local assets [even as both depreciate against gold... assets doubly so]. Within this context, commodity prices could remain volatile, where they first spike on speculation [inflation expectations], and come off again with moments of deleveraging/ short-covering [deflation expectations].

 

The solution could be a matter of gold slowly and steadily rising to a market price where it effectively "recapitalizes" economies... and where it also becomes more economical to mine.

 

It's all relative, and depends on your perpective. I could [and do] say everything deflates against gold. Or, you could say the price of gold must inflate. But I think it's problematic to say that the price of everything must inflate [hyper-inflation]. This would involve saying asset prices [property/ stocks] etc will "go to the moon" [along with gold] which I think is highly dubious.

 

I think the current trend of these past few years will continue into the future, which makes gold even a good buy here for those that haven't yet bought.

The only asset I see falling in price will be property. Otherwise, energy and all commodities will inflate driving up labour costs. Interestingly, some sectors are prospering (Farming,mining) where others are struggling (Retail and services) and I would expect that to be reflected in stock prices.

Gold Rises To Record £950.81 British Pounds An Ounce - http://www.zerohedge.com/article/sterling-and-euro-fall-economic-concerns-gold-rises-record-%C2%A395081-british-pounds-ounce

I liked these bits

The Titanic analogy grows increasingly apt. The various major currencies all face real challenges and are like various floors on the Titanic. The massive ship is holed and water is flowing into it, gradually affecting all floors of the boat.

Gold represents the lifeboat.

When the passengers on the various currency floors(the dollar, euro and pound floors) realize that the ship is going down there will be a scramble to get into the golden lifeboat.

Gold and silver bullion remain tiny markets vis-à-vis equity, bond and currency markets and are thus like lifeboats which can only fit so many passengers.

As the ship of the international monetary system flounders and denial is replaced by a realization that the ship is going down, investors and savers (retail and institutional) and central banks, will “pile” into gold.

Gold bullion remains owned by a tiny percentage of retail and institutional investors and there has not been any “piling into gold” yet - contrary to some sensationalist reporting. The risks posed to all fiat currencies and the real risk of an international monetary crisis will likely lead to a gold mania phase when investors and savers do actually pile into gold.

This is when gold will likely go parabolic in price as it did in the 1970’s when it rose 24 times in 9 years.

Gold’s gradual rise in recent years is in stark contrast to its parabolic rise in the 1970’s – particularly in 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1979.

Gold surged by 49.7% in 1972, 73.5% in 1973 and by 60.1% in 1974. In the final phase of the bull market in 1979, gold surged 140% in one year. Gold’s recent rise has been tame in comparison with the animal spirits remaining subdued and media coverage remaining very limited and skeptical – especially in the UK and Ireland.

I know this is off topic but I didnt want to start a new thread for it. What do you make of the story about the IMF chief being charged with sex offenses and now locked up without bail? I suspect there's something going on here, with the Americans punishing him for something other than the sex offense.

I was just about to post that, you cannot take an article seriously (other things aside) which purports the all time high to be 2001 , check out thier graph

Yeah, I thought that. I'm not sure which chart it is but it isn't the correct one. The article has been written by someone who knows nothing about gold and who thinks things are all about to get back to "normal". Notice that the BBC have failed to even run an article about the US debt ceiling which could lead to a default or more likely QE3.

Hi guys,

I am calling for 500 buck gold this time.

These are the technicals:

http://seekingalpha....erm-update-2011

 

I am short, and this is going to be my killing trade. Bears, wish me luck.

 

Regards

You've been wildly wrong on gold for the last 4 years so your opinion is ridiculous to say the least. If you have any gold I would buy it off you for $500 an ounce, but you dont have any do you? I wish you luck with your paper.

http://youtu.be/TB6MJnzhMYY

Sorry if this has already been posted, there was an interesting piece on RT about libya trying to sell oil for gold and avoid the dollar and encouraging other countries to do the same.

Like it, heres another.

 

I vote for chris ct silver bottom, sorry pix.....

Personally, Im looking for a golden bottom, and this is what I found.... As Jim would say, Look at the French curves....

If all this short termism is getting you down, try viewing tonight's installment of "A History of Celtic Britain" from 17 minutes in.

 

You'll see Neil Oliver handling a Roman silver denarius from the second century AD. He says at the time it would have been worth £100 in today's money. Before it became debased by addition of base metal, it contained just 4.5 grams of silver. You'd need about 7.3 of these to make a troy ounce of silver. That means the Romans would have valued an ounce of silver at about £730. At the time there were about 3 million people in Britain. Today there are 61 million. Doubtless there is more silver above ground today, but then again, there are many, many more people.

 

Another way to look at this. That coin is a little larger than a gold half sovereign (3.7g). Today a gold half sovereign sells for about £112 - roughly the value the romans would have ascribed to the same weight of silver. Yet gold is today valued at 30 times silver. If Romans attributed a similar multiple, half sovereigns would be worth £3000 a piece to a Roman form the second century.

Interesting. There is a blacksmiths forge near me that is powered by water and they made tools for agriculture. I learnt that the wage for a skilled blacksmith around 1850-1900 was 7 shillings for a 6 day week which is just over an ounce of silver. In todays money, that puts silver at £500 an ounce?

welcome back GF. You were missed! I would have thought that silver would breach $50 before a losing 30% in consolidation before moving higher in the public awareness phase. I see that adverts are appearing in America trying to sell gold and silver to the public but I have not really noticed any in Britain yet. Whats it like in Germany, I know many have an interest there.

I do not know what the next asset class will be but I believe that the future will be about food.

 

Farming in the UK seems to be uneconomical due to a variety of factors but in my opinion mainly because of the over priced GBP and the supermarket's strategy of screwing down the price paid to producers. As others have pointed out, farmland is hard to hide when the state thieves come looking for a way to milk some more tax. Also, it is worth taking note that intensive use of nitrogen fertilisers has ruined much of the soil.

Having said that, people have to eat and with increasingly expensive imported oil and fertiliser, food will become ever more expensive.

 

Niche markets can provide real returns even in a collapse. Steel doors which open outwards were bought in their millions in Russia in the early 90s...

I have this idea that people would rather eat local natural food from the growers and that the supermarkets can be bypassed, a farmers co-operative if you like. A scaleable buisness perhaps. You could even invest in farmland by buying some of the land, a bit like bullion vault. When the time comes I will buy a farm....

I'd broadly agree, energy and agricultural land. The key question, as always, is at what price?

 

Timing will be absolutely critical - come inflation or deflation the price paid for assets could vary massively in the space of months. I think the transition from gold could prove to be tricky one, especially as I believe all the ratios we're familiar with are about to go well beyond their historic extremes.

Buying a farm that the previous owners found hard to make profitable seems unwise. I dont know what you would do with it until a change in the cycle comes and makes farming more profitable and the business of higher value.

I watch the ratios for signs of relative valuations: gold:Dow, gold:S&P, gold:oil, gold:copper, gold:real estate, these will give us some very important clues.

 

Many people have their eyes on natural gas, uranium, farmland - and all of these could work.

 

I would now add foreign stock indicies to the mix: gold:Shanghai, gold: India, gold:Brazil.

Thanks for the answer. I quite like farmland as the supermarkets have made it hard to make a profitable farm.Many farmers Ive met have complained about this and some have thrown the towel in. I know an egg farmer and a dairy farmer who recently have done this. How can you sell a farm at a high price if you cant make a living out of it? Jim Sinclair has also recommended this so as to be self sufficient and I am seriously considering it.

It is interesting to contemplate how wealth can be preserved through time against a background of changing technology and shifting geo political power. The most valuable tool is ... yourself! A person's ability to understand what is happening now together with some knowledge of history enables the right decisions to be made.

 

Buying under-valued assets cheap and swapping them when they become over valued applies to gold just as it does to other things. Given what is coming, gold is still very undervalued.

Indeed, but what is the next asset class?

Wow, we sure were 100% correct that silver would go balistic and gold was the place to be. Well done all those who did and thanks for the great advice and discussions.