drbubb

I haven't been talking "crash cruise speed" for months. BDEV told us late 2010 and early 2011, that we could expect a "pause", and that is what we have been in for some months. I reckon BDEV will signal with a sharp fall below 100p if/when the pause is going to be ending. BDEV-chart The fall through 100p may have begun from that recent "right shoulder", and the volume on the way down should give us an idea whether a sustained drop has begun

I haven't been talking "crash cruise speed" for months. BDEV told us late 2010 and early 2011, that we could expect a "pause", and that is what we have been in for some months. I reckon BDEV will signal with a sharp fall below 100p if/when the pause is going to be ending. BDEV-chart The fall through 100p may have begun from that recent "right shoulder", and the volume on the way down should give us an idea whether a sustained drop has begun

The rises continue as the spring season fades Mo.: Rt'mov : London : Hometrack %/ Nt'wide H-oldSA Halif.SA Hal.NSA: HNindex : mom : DelusIdx 2011 J. : : 223,122 : 413,259 : 154,300 - 0.5% / 161,211 = n/a = 164,173 161,470 : £161,341 :- 0.33% :138.3% : F. : : 230,030 : 430,680 : 154,000 - 0.2% / 161,183 = n/a = 162,657 161,680 : £161,432 :+ 0.06% :142.5% : M : : 231,790 : 424,307 : 153,850 - 0.1% / 164,751 = n/a = 162,912 162,151 : £163,451 :+ 1.25% :141.8% : A : : 235,822 : 431,013 : 153,850 +0.0% / 165,609 = n/a = 160,395 162,303 : £163,956 :+ 0.31% :143.8% : M : : 238,874 : 430,936 : 153,700 - 0.1% / 167,208 = n/a = 160,519 162,344 : £164,776 :+ 0.50% :145.0% : J. : : 240,394 : 438,622 : 153,550 - 0.1% / 168,205 = n/a = 163,049 163,642 : £165,924 :+ 0.70% Jl : : 2xx ===================================== mom: +0.64% : +1.78% : Est.DI: 145.9% / +0.60% := n/a = :+1.58% :+0.80% : + 0.70% Meantime... Barratt seems to be putting in a "right shoulder" : BDEV-chart

I am in the US now. But I can say that I have not seen the book in HK. If I get near a Barnes & Noble, I will check to see if they have it in the US

That's because the UK government (and US and HK too) have adopted the policy of robbing savers to subsidize the bloody fools who bought overpriced housing. Why not openly discuss it, and characterise it as the unfair policy that it is.

That could work, especially if you think prices might rise. But it is not tax efficient, since you will need to pay some tax on your rental income, whereas living in a property you own gives you the living space as a "tax free dividend." Personally, I might have enough risk appetite to sell out and rent, and bet prices will fall.

Yes! That is a plausible scenario. And probably a likely one... eventually. Potentially, but only in the short term IMHO. The UK has debt problems galore, and will not escape "the reckoning." Most mortgages are driven off deposit rates in the UK, I believe,

More of the same? “It’s hard to make the case for prices rising or falling sharply over the remainder of 2011 if the economy develops as we expect. Economic growth looks set to gather pace in the months ahead, but is likely to remain unspectacular. This in turn points to only modest gains in employment and sluggish wage increases, which will continue to keep many potential buyers on the sidelines. “At the same time, the chances of a near term increase in interest rates appear to have diminished. Ultra-low interest rates should continue to support affordability for some time yet and keep a lid on forced sales. Overall, a combination of low transaction volumes, still tight housing supply and flattish house prices looks set to stay for the remainder of the year.” BE ALERT for "surprises" when you read something like that That current policies are not working, is made clear by this article: Bank of England MPC in disarray on rates as new data disappoint The Bank of England released the latest personal lending figures this morning. The level stayed pretty constant at £1.2billion, but is still 30% below what it was in February. In the same month for 2008, the figure was £7.8billion – over six times higher. This is, however, only the latest confirmatory piece in a jigsaw that is beginning to suggest a property implosion of unparalleled enormity. And the influential BoE Deputy Governor Paul Tucker has signalled his growing conversion to the need for interest rate rises. The two reasons the UK housing crash hasn’t been enormous to date are : (1) the banks have a gun to their heads from government forcing them to be tolerant of those behind on their mortgage payments; and (2) zero-rate interest policy (Zirp) has meant that only a fraction of buyers have actually handed over their keys to the provider. UK Asset Resolution (UKAR), which owns Mortgage Express, many mortgages from B&B, and some £44bn of “bad” mortgages from Northern Rock is tackling the “forbearance” offered to 44,000 customers last year by reducing monthly repayments to help them stay in their homes. /more: http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/crash-2-banking-crisis-wait-until-the-uk-property-bust-really-gets-going/ Ultra-Low rates Forever? I think not ! Why go on rewarding deadbeats, and punishing savers ? Flip it around, and make the world "right" again ! (Though there will be some pain for those who overpaid for their houses.)

Here's what Hang Lung says in their 2010 Annual Report: The Long Beach "In 2007, with its tremendous harbor views and world class recreational facilities, 600 units in this prime residential development were sold in just two weeks. With the slowdown in the market, further sales were postponed and plans to market the second phase further sales were postponed and plans to market the second phase of the project were shelved during the current fiscal year. Though price levels recovered earlier year this year to reach 2007 levels, we are choosing to wait a little longer for the best opportunity to release phase two for sale. The remaining five blocks, consisting of 1,234 unsold units, will be released in separate batches over the next few years, as the market picks up. We are fortunate in that we enjoy a strong net cash position. Coupled with our low gearing ratio, it gives us flexibility to accurately time the sale of our residential developments at the right price in the market." Go Home now lists an Imperial Cullinan property: 1,700sf / Sale: HK$30mn : $17,647 psf /see: http://www.gohome.com.hk/residential/property/Olympic-Station/Imperial-Cullinan/ad-503219/photos/en/?id=2395064#

EXCERPT from Asia-Xpat, by Off-the-Peak: "Transaction volumes, calls, and buyer purchase interest are really starting to dive from what I can see." Maybe they are just holding onto their cash, awaiting "the Big Boys" - the last chance to buy West Kowloon properties on the sea. That's: + Long Beach (with 1,104 flats to sell - largest number in HK this year), and + Imperial Cullinan (with 650 flats, right next door) One of the penthouses has just sold at $48,000 psf. Mid-Level purists take note - West Kowloon is zooming past you. (!) Some folks who have never made the journey to West Kowloon maybe be journeying to the former "dark side" to find out what they have been missing. UNQUOTE

The Property Buying Mania is not over yet in Hong Kong article: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?sid=32828924&art_id=112446&con_type=1&pp_cat=1 My friend must be well pleased. $48,000 psf is darned close to the $50,000 target. He can now look down on the Mainland tycoon who paid that monster price, and wonder why a small swimming pool and the word "Imperial" can add so much to what might seem by him to be a less advantageous view.

A SPOILER? Looks like "sour grapes" to me. Walter was booted out of the family firm, and this outburst might have been intended to undermine the launch of Imperial Cullinan this week. IC will be a very expensive project targetted at Mainland buyers and high-end HK based buyers. Kwok's comments may have been designed to destroy some of the potential demand. I imagine that his two brothers were very upset by the timing of such a forecast. No respect to Walter Kwok, but I do not see how you get a meaningful correction when: Yields are at 3%, rents are rising, and interest rates are "stuck" near ultra-low levels of 1%. There's 2% sitting there to be gained, and it protects you from rising rents. Rising rents is one factor Jake Van Der Kamp does not mention in this morning's SCMP column: "Thanks, but no thanks, Mr Wang": "The single biggest reason that housing prices have gone so far up is that interest rates have been way down for an extended period. It is not our doing and there is nothing we can do about it. Breaking the peg to the US dollar would not solve the problem (nb: he says with no evidence?) although it would destabilise our economy. The only other thing we might do is prohibit mainland money from buying property in Hong Kong but, even if we could block the flow of money this way, and this is highly doubtful, it would only force a correction at the luxury end of the market."

MM, this might interest you... Mehran Keshe - Iran's Flying Saucer & Plasma Reactor Technology June 9, 2011 Mehran Keshe, originally from Iran, joins us from Belgium to discuss his development of plasma reactor technology and Iran's flying saucer. The technology Mehran has developed has multiple applications, such as space flight, anti-gravity, energy-generating and medical. He is the author of "The Universal Order of Creation of Matters" and "The Structure of the Light". He formed the "International Space Institute" with the assertion that commercial space flight will be made available to the general public in the near future. This includes a "Moon trip program", currently scheduled for 2016-2017 and eventually travels to Mars. Iran as the first government in the world has showed interest in Mehran's technology and we discuss the initiation and current status of Iran's flying saucer project. In 2005 Keshe filed two patents with the European Patent Office for a "Micro plasma reactor" and a "Gravitational and energy system". Mehran Keshe was born In Iran in 1958, he is the son to an X-ray engineer, he moved to Europe in the mid-seventies for further education in the field of nuclear physics. In 81 he graduated from Queen Mary College, University of London, as a nuclear engineer specialized in reactor technology system control. Since 2002 he has concentrated his effort to finish the full design of his technology for launch into the scientific world and industry. He also claims that at the end of 2005 and beginning of 2006 several static plasma reactors have been built. Since the beginning of 2006 several prototypes of dynamic reactors have been built, some specifically designed to create hovering effects. Topics discussed: magnetic fields, Plasma, the beginning of the technology development, radiation, plasma magnetic field, weapon technology, Iran's flying saucer and more. /see: http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2011/06/RIR-110609.php

SHKP and Hang Lung will have a challenge in getting the pricing of Imperial Cullinan and Long Beach right. I think the rise in Kowloon last week suggests that there may be some good buying appetite there. The market has slowly awakened to the fact that West Kowloon has many merits relative to certain parts of Hng Kong Island, such as (the grossly over-rated?) Mid-Levels. Try getting from ML to Central on a rainy day, and compare that with West Kowloon to Central by MTR. (There ain't no comparison. And as people also realise that there are GOOD JOBS in ICC, WK slowly gains on the fading attractions of the over-crowded MLs.)

Click on the first phrase in this post from Retrofitting Suburbia Byrne understands that the Suburbs are better than any other musician

From the AX forum (2) Good post, Crestrider. It has encouraged me to make a return post on AX, and this thread. I think there are three major things holding up the property market in HK: + Rising rents + Low interest rates + Confidence If something were to "mess with" all three, the market would slide fast. In fact, the government has tried various measures to slow the rise, but they have typically brought a brief drop in confidence and prices, and then prices have continued their climb. Nothing we have seen yet has disturbed rising rents and ultra-low interest rates. A global slowdown does again seem possible, and if that halts job formations in HK, and slows rent rise, it will stabilise the market. A rise in interest rates, which we will see at some point, either through market forces, or through a tougher tightening move by the HK government, would have the potential to bring property prices back down. I doubt the HK government has the stomach for it. But a push in prices, so the Centaline index hit 110 or 120, just might force them to do something. They must have been nervous when it hit 100, and that might have been one of the things that inspired the recent LTV restrictions. - OffThePeak

From the AX forum (1) Hi Newbie to this forum here - ex UK based investor with property on HK island. Some good debate here and some great calls over the past couple of years by some posters particularly since I've been following the debate. My take on the market and direction of prices is as follows. We have two markets in Hk luxury and mass. My interest is in luxury but I try to understand the dynamics of both. Mass is 98% or so of the total driven by supply and demand of property and money. Mass was very cheap in the early 2000's having fallen 66% or so from the peak in 1997. It has now risen 200% to around the 100 level indicated on Centaline. The price has risen in part because of low interest rates and negative real interest rates leading to a supply of money, part due to rising wages and inflation, part due to the peg and the relative strength of HK$ vs US$ creating liquidity in the banking system and part due to limited supply of new property. Of these factors we will see negative real interest rates for two or so years yet as the US problems continue to play out and hosuing market bottoms there and employment picks up. Local banks seem keen on a gradual increase in rates but not a shock to the system per se which is quite reassuring. As for supply govt is making more land available but not necessarily where people want and this will take a couple of years to work through the pipeline. The unknown seems to be HK$ strength vs US$ where a bout of deflation could reduce money supply or more money printing could increase it. I'm betting on the former followed by the latter. So I would assess mass as having another two to three years left of jagged rises fitting with a 16-18 year property cycle for HK and a top sometime between 2013 and 2015. I read the latest cooling announced yesterday as an attempt to slow these rises down and to appear to be active in colling whilst not making a huge difference to the status quo? In the luxury market we have only 500 units or so a year being supplied which has proved much below market demand. Demand is driven by three things - China millionaires (100,000 HNWI every years since 2008) who are the biggest buyers of new property, trader uppers and high fliers who buy D and E units to increase space and who have found that salary increases have dwarfed rate of supply of larger units in desirable locations and finally the buying and selling restrictions which have made trading less desirable and hence reduced transaction volumes but increased asking prices. For the luxury market given supply is limited I am hoping that the latest round of tightening in China is close to a conclusion we will see a fall of of food and oil inflation this summer and this will further support prices in HK market. So on balance I favour further increases in both markets with luxury harder to call but of all the concerns I think affordability is becoming increasingly stretched and this would may ultimately be the factor that brekas the long run up in prices. Be interested in all view on the above and specifically - what do HK er's think of SOHO as a luxury location. Is it still being gentrified - it is difficult to keep tabs on this from afar - is the slowdown in the Chinese property market having much impact on HK market? - Do people have a target in mind for how far the Centaline index can go? Some would say 100 top match the 97 top but with inflation in between and the lower interest rates this time we could see a bigger rise a bit like the bigger rises in the UK market when comparing the 1988 and 2007 tops? Crestrider (Ma)

Back down, as the LTV restrictions "bite": INDEX . . . . . . . . . . . . . .: Index : Weekly : Prev.Mo. [Centa-City Leading Index] 99.70 : -1.01% : +2.32 % [Mass Leading Index-------] 96.56 : -1.14% : +2.28 % update :: http://hk.centadata.com/cci/cci_e.htm The showflat for Imperial Cullinan supposedly opens on Monday, an agent told me. That's an unsual day to open a flat. == == == Asia Housing Boom Stalls as Tightening Puts Brake on Prices June 17 (Bloomberg) -- From Mumbai to Melbourne, Asia’s property boom is stalling as the world’s highest interest rates and government efforts to curb prices take hold. In China’s biggest cities, growth slowed in April after the government stepped up property measures. In India and Australia, prices are falling after the steepest interest rate increases among major economies. In the financial hubs of Hong Kong and Singapore, price growth is moderating after increased deposit requirements and land releases. In Japan, the worst earthquake on record snuffed out signs of a recovery, while South Korean banks remain weighed by soured property loans. “Across Asia-Pacific, you have seen a policy induced pullback,” said Rod Cornish, head of real estate strategy at Macquarie Capital Advisers in Sydney. “It’s a required pullback because if some of these markets had been allowed to continue, you would have had more overbuilding, more overvaluation, and a bigger correction down the track.” . . . ‘Bubble’ Warning Hong Kong, which Savills Plc says is the world’s most expensive place to buy an apartment, reported the number of home-sale transactions fell for a fifth straight month in May amid rising mortgage rates. Home prices have surged about 70 percent since the start of 2009 on record-low borrowing costs and an influx of buyers from other Chinese cities. The city’s Chief Executive Donald Tsang said in an interview in Melbourne today that home prices are “quite frightening” as growing wealth in China fuels increases of 2 percent a month. HSBC Holdings Plc and other lenders raised mortgage rates in Hong Kong after the central bank in April warned of the risk of a “credit-fueled property bubble.” Hong Kong home prices could fall as much as 20 percent in 2012 because of higher mortgage rates, according to Barclays Capital Asia Ltd. The Hong Kong Monetary Authority has tightened rules on mortgage lending four times since October 2009, most recently on June 10 when it raised down payments for homes costing more than HK$6 million ($771,000) and increased deposits for foreign buyers. HKMA Chief Executive Norman Chan said property curbs introduced by the government have reduced speculation. “Credit conditions have become more onerous and that has helped take some steam out of the property market across Asia,” said Vishnu Varathan, an economist at Capital Economics (Asia) Pte in Singapore. “Gains in property markets around the region have slowed but they haven’t decisively peaked.” /more: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-17/asia-housing-boom-stalls-as-tightening-puts-brake-on-prices.html

The banks must realise now, many of those mortgages were excessive, or should not have been granted at all

Here's IP Global's HK Summary (They sell property - No mention of a possible peak herein.) Hong Kong hotter than ever!!! Searching for one of the most vibrant property markets on the planet today? Look no further than Hong Kong. For example, earlier in 2010, one private residence in Hong Kong's most prestigious area known as "The Peak" sold for an incredible US$1.3 billion! Government Cooling Measures With such an influx of outside money coming in (an estimated 20% of flats purchased last year were by Mainland buyers), a growing amount of local complaints finally forced the Hong Kong government to create new restrictions for buyers. These include a Special Stamp Duty, ranging from 5% to 15% on top of the current stamp duty on the short-term re-sale of housing within 2 years. Hong Kong Monetary Authority lowered the Loan to Value ratio for residential properties worth $8 million or above, to 50% or 60% and for all non owner occupied residential properties of any value to 50%. The Near Future...? Hong Kong is currently going from strength to strength with huge capital reserves--currently the world's seventh largest holder of foreign currency reserves at $266 billion. There is low unemployment (just over 4%) and continued demand for property (largely supported by a continued influx of interest from the Mainland). This combined with an increase in land supply means that prices will continue to rise though at a slower rate due to recent government measures. Analysts have predicted house prices to increase by 10%-15% in 2011 . /more: http://www.buying-asia.com/markets/hong-kong/hong-kong-market-update.html

NEWER 01225 LERADO GROUP Updated chart: 2/4/2019 - HK$0.127 Date------- : Shareholder name--- : Reason: Buy/Sell Ave.Price Current Holdings : % of: 14/04/2011 Webb David Michael 103(L) +200,000(L) HKD 1.415(L) 60,230,000(L) 8.02% 00684 ALLAN INT'L Real Time Nominal 3.600 -0.070 (-1.907%) Date------- : Shareholder name--- : Reason: Buy/Sell Ave.Price Current Holdings : % of: 23/03/2011 Webb David Michael 103(L) +30,000(L) HKD 3.480(L) 33,552,000(L) 10.00 00483 BAUHAUS INT'L Real Time Nominal 3.240 -0.060 (-1.818%) Date------- : Shareholder name--- : Reason: Buy/Sell Ave.Price Current Holdings : % of: 23/12/2010 Webb David Michael 101(L) +240,000(L) HKD 3.104(L) 18,092,000(L) 5.03 == == == first5 : last4 : ================== Price : -old- : P/E R: Yield: 0328 / Alco Holdings : $3.44 : $3.71 : 07.71: 2.??%: $1.99B : 40.40m/7.00%-33.77m/6.07% 0684 / Allan Int'l Hldg : $3.56 : $3.47 : 06.30: 1.??%: $1.19B : 33.55m/10.0%-30.27m/9.02% 1120 / Arts Optical- : $3.15 : $3.71 : 09.69: 1.??%: $1.21B : 23.12m/6.03%-23.12m/6.03% 0927 / Fujikon Inds. : $1.38 : $1.65 : 10.77: 1.??%: $566mn : 27.99m/9.02%-27.99m/9.02% 0645 / KTP Holdings : $1.13 : $2.58 : 21.61: 0.00%: $385mn : 16.??m/4.??%-16.85m/4.95% 2728 / Shinhint Acou : $0.55 : $0.92 : 16.57: 1.??%: $177mn : 22.54m/7.01%-22.54m/7.01% 0125 / SunHing Vis.- : $3.50 : $3.50 : 10.90: 1.??%: $921mn : 23.66m/9.00%-21.10m/8.03% ==== 7cos / Ave. of 7 co's: $2.39 : $2.79 : 11.94: 1.??% (ave.chg: -14.4%, vs HSI:-3.15% ) (new) 0483 / Bauhaus Int'l- : $3.26 : -new- : 14.11: 1.xx%: $1.17B : 18.09/5.03%-Not Rpt'able 1225 / Lerado Group : $1.11 : -new- : 08.72: 1.xx%: $916mn : 60.23/8.02%-Not Rpt'able ===============

According to the Standard, SHKP may be going ahead with the launch of Imperial Cullinan tomorrow Today's article suggests: + IC : "asking at least HK$20,000 psf" + LB : "will likely be priced at HK$15,000 psf, 20% higher than secondary units in the area"

The Standard is reporting a daily drumbeat of price cuts, almost as if the want to "assist" the market lower. SCMP mentioned that Hang Lung may have decided to delay the launch of the remaining 1100 flats at The Long Beach. HL may be concerned that last week's LTV changes may undermine the market for a while, and they want to launch in a more bullish environment. HL completed these units in 2004, so it has been a long and profitable wait.

(This reporter earns an "F" - failing grade for writing such tosh.) Wealthy Chinese are squeezing cash-strapped Britons out of property market By DAILY MAIL REPORTER Last updated at 8:16 PM on 13th June 2011 Cash-strapped Brits are being squeezed out of affordable housing by Chinese property speculators, housing experts have warned. Chinese buyers spent £120 million in London over two months recently, according to new research by estate agent Knight Frank. And one in three buyers of newly-built homes in Canary Wharf's financial district now comes from mainland China and Hong Kong. Property surge: The Pan Peninsula skyscrapers in Canary Wharf are said to be particularly attractive to Far Eastern buyers The steep decline in the value of the pound and low interest rates have made properties in the capital and Home Counties a bargain for Chinese investors. UK developers are mounting major marketing campaigns at trade fairs in China - and Far Eastern investors are jetting into Britain to view developments. And only last week, a group of Chinese investors made a special trip to view Pan Peninsula in Canary Wharf, Europe's tallest residential tower. Most of their purchases are in the £400,000 to £1 million price bracket, according to Knight Frank Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2002999/Wealthy-Chinese-squeezing-cash-strapped-Britons-property-market.html#ixzz1PEF7SeeP == == == RE-WRITE of the bogus article Wealthy Chinese being duped into buying overpriced London properties Far Eastern Buyers are paying prices which are 20-30% beyond what locals are willing to pay, often for expensive new properties in undesirable parts of London. Typically these properties are slated for completion in 2013 and beyond, and the buyer will expect to rent or resell upon completion. Sadly for the poorly-informed foreign buyers, the rental assumptions being supplied by the vendors and their agents are pure fantasy. Typically the estimates are based on the sort of yields that an owner of a new property would want to achieve rather than any systemic analysis of the actual property transactions. The vendors almost never back up their estimates with hard data showing what secondhand properties in the area are presently achieving. And the impact of a huge number of similar flats being suddenly available on the market is rarely considered. "Rental guarantees" where offered are sales gimmicks funded by increasing the sales prices. Buyers are not sufficiently well-informed to see that sales prices are far in excess of secondhand sales in the same area. The Coming Overhang These flats being purchased by Far Eastern buyers may represent an important future source of supply, which will help to hold down rents or push down prices when the buyers unload them. Very few of the buyers expect to live in the flats. But in certain cases they may be hopeful that their children may use them as accommodation while they are studying in Universities in the UK. (A spell in the UK is expected to improve the English-speaking abilities of children, while improving their future job prospects.) Rather than "squeezing Britons out of the property market", these naive buyers are likely to be providing British renters and future buyers with cheap property. Their purchases of expensive new properties added to supply when Britons were unwilling to buy. The smart Brit will not compete, but just let them get on with their money-wasting investments. The feast will come later for the patient ones. It is the ill-informed foreigners who deserve the sympathy, not the "priced out" Brits. (The Mail would not publish my comment - it seems that they prefer lies and distortion !)

DEVASTATING STUPIDITY of UK Policies: (see posts on: The Long, Long wait !) + Excessive Housing benefits + Ultra-low interest rates + Excessive Loan-to-Value lending percentages* Together they have worked to prop up UK property prices at "artificially high" levels. It is time for people to wake up, smell the coffee, and help educate others about the insanity. The responsible (savers, taxpayers) are being robbed to bailout the irresponsible and reckless == == == *In Hong Kong yesterday, LTV rates were cut: + From 60% to 50% for properties over HK$10 million, + From 70% to 60% for properties of HK$5 to HK$10 million this is the act of a responsible government, trying to encourage its citizens to also be responsible, not pandering to Buy-to-Let morons and over-borrowed owner occupiers. When I read that nonsense about the UK, I think : "Hit 'em with a fecking brick!", and then I see HK do exactly that. BTW, this new policy in HK may actually hurt me, since I am trying to sell a property now at a "full" price. Even though it is against my own interest, I applaud it because it is the "right" thing to do. I really got fed up watch the UK government under Gordon Brown's leadership ALWAYS do the "wrong" thing and then find some half-baked incredibly stupid way to justify it. RANT OVER