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The Assisted Living (for Seniors) Thread


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The Assisted Living (for Seniors) Thread

 

What is it?

Who offers good programs?

Is it a good area for investment?

 

(My partner wants to look at this, to help her parents and mine)

 

sif18327.jpg.sif18330.jpg.

 

sif18329.jpg.sif36793.jpg.

 

source: http://www.sunriseseniorliving.com/communi...39D5?commid=193

AMENITIES

 

Spacious light-filled private apartments with nine-foot ceilings and crown mouldings, kitchenettes, many with bay windows

Lifeline Emergency Response System in each apartment

Library sitting rooms with gas fireplaces on each floor

Landscaped terraces; large balconies on all upper levels

Chapel with scheduled services

Full-service hairdresser/salon

Gift shop and resident office/computer center // more

 

= = = = =

LINKS:

Assisted Living portfolio (GEIN) : http://www.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=19704167

yy

zz

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Assisted Living portfolio (GEIN) : x

 

Stocks: charts: http://www.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=19704167

=====

Assisted Living Related Companies

 

Symb/ Name============ Exchange Last Trade== Change Mkt Cap

 

ALC / Assisted Living Concepts. NYSE ALC $16.26 +0.63 ( 4.03%) 195.01M

BKD / Brookdale Senior Living.. NYSE BKD $12.94 +1.48 (12.91%) 1.32 Bn

CSU / Capital Senior Living..... NYSE CSU $ 4.34 +0.47 (12.14%) 116.87M

FVE / Five Star Quality Care... AMEX FVE $ 2.68 +0.03 ( 1.13%) $86.31M

ESC / Emeritus Corporation..... NYSE ESC $13.16 +2.54 (23.92%) 515.06M

SRZ / Sunrise Assisted Living... ?

 

===== (foreign)

MKA.FR Marseille-Kliniken AG... FRA MKA- E.5.65 +0.00 ( 0.00%) E68.27M

SCHE.L Southern Cross Healthcare LON SCHE 109.0p +1.50 ( 1.40%) 204.99M

LLP.au Lend Lease Prime Life... ASX LLP.. A$0.15 +.015 (11.11%) 139.37M

EPA=== Orpea SA................ EPA ORP.. ?32.08 +0.09 ( 0.30%) 1.18B

JP:239 TSUKUI CORPORATION...... JSD 2398

TLV GOHO Golden House Ltd...... TLV GOHO

 

UK CARE HOMES:

======

Barchester Healthcare...... : http://www.barchester.com/

BUPA Care Homes........... : http://www.bupacarehomes.co.uk/

Cragemoor Healthcare..... : http://www.craegmoor.co.uk/home/default.aspx

Care UK..........................: http://www.careuk.com/

Four Seasons Health Care.: http://www.fshc.co.uk/

Southern Cross Healthcare: http://www.schealthcare.co.uk/

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About Sunrise Senior Living

 

Sunrise Senior Living, a McLean, Va.-based Company, employs approximately 40,000 people.

 

As of December 31, 2008, Sunrise operated 435 communities in the United States, Canada, Germany and the United Kingdom, with a combined capacity for approximately 54,000 residents. Sunrise offers a full range of personalized senior living services, including independent living, assisted living, care for individuals with Alzheimer's and other forms of memory loss, as well as nursing, rehabilitative and hospice care. Sunrise's senior living services are delivered by staff trained to encourage the independence, preserve the dignity, enable freedom of choice and protect the privacy of residents. To learn more about Sunrise,

 

please visit http://www.sunriseseniorliving.com.

 

Audio presentations: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?...l-audioarchives

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?...EventId=2204304

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WHAT IS ASSISTED LIVING?

 

it is important to understand the difference between nursing homes and assisted living arrangements. It is possible that some senior centers have both nursing homes and assisted living apartments. Assisted living usually refers to healthier older people who may no longer be able to care for themselves but do not need the full medical service of a nursing home. By assisted living what is meant is that elderly people reside in small apartments. Additional care and services are available at a greater fee. The advantage of assisted living is that there is a community of people surrounding those in the apartments that the dwellers may or may not choose to take part in. For example, there is the choice of using the common dining room for each meal or dwellers may cook their meals in their apartment or go out to eat. In other words, in the context of assisted living people can live as independently as they wish or fully partake of community activities available to all.

 

Nursing homes refer to a more comprehensive type of living and medical arrangement for those most debilitated by health problems. These are institutions that look and function like hospitals. Depending on the health of the resident, they may or may not be able to leave the premises.

 

When to seek it / see reasons, etc:

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php...id=5&cn=171

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A Growth Opportunity

 

Growth is the defining characteristic of the assisted living industry. Revenues are currently at $12-15 billion per year with no end in sight to an exponential increase in numbers. The current growth rate of assisted living has been unprecedented. Every day in America, there are tens of thousands of families searching for assisted living homes and facilities for their elderly parents or parent.

 

With over 35,000 assisted living facilities and over one million elderly already in assisted living currently, this industry is exploding!

 

Your three-day training takes place in our hometown, lovely Scottsdale, Arizona. Once there, you’ll be immersed in a real-life, real-time situation and you’ll learn first hand -- on-the-job with us -- how to successfully operate your business. Then we’ll put theory into practice in your business. We’ll head home with you to your personal franchise and “work it” with you. It’s true! You can count on us to give you hands-on support to market your franchise and set up your business systems.

 

What Makes Assisted Living Locators Unique?

 

Assisted Living Locators has the largest DVD care home tour library available anywhere. Our “Bring The Facility To You” program can show potential clients their assisted living options from their bedside at nursing homes or hospitals. You will have access to a DVD tour of every home and facility that you contract with. You will be able to show these DVD’s to potential clients as well as potential referral sources

 

/more: http://www.franchisegator.com/Assisted-Liv...tors-franchise/

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Ageing in Place in Hong Kong—Challenges and Opportunities in a Capitalist Chinese City

 

Abstract In 1997, Hong Kong was returned to China, but it has retained its capitalist socio-economic order under the socialist People’s Republic. It is a Chinese city in which ethnic Chinese constitute a majority of the population. Like other advanced economies, Hong Kong has a gradually ageing population. The virtue of respecting the older people, as a facet of traditional Chinese normative order, is facing challenges from rapid social changes. Urban development has posed a considerable threat to implementing the policy of ‘ageing in place’. Divergent paths are being taken in the public and private sectors respectively in the effort to enable older people to remain living in familiar physical and social environments. Market forces in private sector redevelopment usually bring about gentrification, which results in the dislocation of older people. In the public sector, massive public housing programmes can be beneficial to older people affected by re-development by permitting in-situ relocation. The government’s community care policy also helps to achieve ageing-in-place. This paper provides an account and analysis of the challenges and opportunities in accomplishing the principle of ageing-in-place in the capitalist Chinese city of Hong Kong.

Keywords Ageing-in-place - Community care - Chinese elderly

 

http://www.springerlink.com/content/n482418rn3612822/

 

2/

Ageing in Hong Kong

Iris Chi 1 , 2 Ernest Chui 1

1 Department of Social Work and Social Administration, University of Hong Kong

Correspondence to

2 Department of Social Work and Social Administration, University of Hong Kong, Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong, China. E-mail: irischi@hku.hk

Copyright 1999 Australian Council on the Aging (ACOTA)

ABSTRACT

Abstract. Hong Kong has experienced a steady and significant growth in its elderly population. Being essentially a Chinese community, the traditional virtue of filial piety has been upheld and the family is expected to be the prime source of care for its members. However, there has been a gradual increase in the number of nuclear families and a gradual dwindling of the positive image of the elderly person, which threatens the basis for community care for the elderly. About half of the elderly population are living in government rental housing and are receiving public primary medical care. Community support services are not in-home support in nature and are of low levels of care. The professional and social organisations unanimously urge the government to take a more proactive stance in providing services to the elderly and encourage the community to revitalise its traditional Chinese cultural heritage in caring for the elderly

 

3/

Doomed Elderly People in a Booming City: Urban Redevelopment and Housing Problems of Elderly People in Hong Kong

Author: Ernest Chui

DOI: 10.1080/14036090152770528

Purchase Article: US$30.00

Abstract

Hong Kong, one of the "Four Dragons" of Asia, is faced with the gradual ageing of both its population and its urban fabric. Based on a "property-led" economy, the government and private property developers are eager to launch urban redevelopment projects. Yet, in the course of redevelopment, the special needs and problems of elderly people have not been well attended to. Most of Hong Kong's elderly people are poor in physical, financial and social aspects. They are at a disadvantage in facing the threat of urban renewal. The weakening of Chinese traditional values of respecting elderly people and of neighbourhood care, coupled with the nuclearization of families, all aggravate the plight of elderly people. Government housing policies should incorporate the principles of "ageing-in-place" and "community care", in order to address the housing needs and problems of the elderly people affected.

 

/see: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~c...13787267~db=all

 

4/

Boom the City, Doom the Elderly: Housing Problems of Elderly Affected by Urban Redevelopment in Hong Kong

Ernest Chui

Abstract:

Hong Kong has been faced with a gradually aging population and urban fabric which calls for an urgent need for urban redevelopment. The government and the private property developers are keen in launching urban redevelopment projects. However, such projects are predominated by economic considerations in maximizing the land rent instead of attending to the needs of the people living in the redeveloped buildings. The elderly people, being largely poor in physical, financial, and social aspects, are at a disadvantaged position in facing with the threat of urban redevelopment. The dwindling Chinese traditional values of respecting the old, neighborhood care, coupled with the nuclearization of families, all contribute to aggravate the plight of the elders. The United Nations Principles for Older Persons and Housing Rights can serve as guiding principles for urban redevelopment in view of striking a balance between developing a prosperous city and caring for the elders.

 

 

THESIS / Student of Prof. Chiu:

1. Ding, Hua 丁華

Title : In the trend of "socializing social welfare" policy : a study on service quality and social capital in the society-run home for the aged in Beijing, China

Persistent Link: http://sunzi.lib.hku.hk/hkuto/record/B39558952

 

 

ernestChui.jpg

A/

Dr Ernest Chui is Associate Professor at the Department of Social Work & Social Administration and Associate Director of the Sau Po Center on Ageing of The University of Hong Kong. Dr. Chui’s teaching and research interests lie mainly in social policy, urban development, housing, community work and elderly issues. His publications can be found in academic journals like International Journal of Social Welfare, Asia Pacific Journal of Social Work and Development, Community Development Journal, Housing, Theory & Society , Australasian Journal on Ageing and many others; and is also the member of editorial board or reviewer for such journals as International Journal of Social Welfare, International Journal of Sociology of the Family and Asian Journal of Social Policy. He is also a member of the review committee and District Advisory Committee of the Urban Renewal Authority in Hong Kong.

 

B/

Dr. Ernest Chui

Department of Social Work & Social Administration,

The University of Hong Kong, HKSAR

 

Dr Ernest Chui is Associate Professor at the Department of Social Work & Social Administration and Associate Director of the Sau Po Center on Ageing of The University of Hong Kong. He is a member of the Asia Pacific Housing Research Network as well as a research fellow of the Center of Urban Planning and Environmental Management of the University of Hong Kong. He is a co-opted member of the Review Committee of the Urban Renewal Authority. His research interests lie mainly in housing policies in general and housing for elders in particular, urban renewal, and social welfare. His publications are found in academic journals like Community Development Journal, City Planning Review, Housing Theory and Society, Planning Practice and Research, Hallym International Journal of Aging, Australasian Journal on Ageing, Asian Journal of Public Administration, and the like.

 

RebeccaChiu.jpg

Rebecca L.H. Chiu

The Centre of Urban Planning & Environmental Management,

The University of Hong Kong,

HKSAR

 

Rebecca Chiu is Associate Professor of The Centre of Urban Planning and Environmental Management of The University of Hong Kong, specializing in housing studies. Her research interests cover comparative housing policies, housing reforms in transitional economies, housing policy issues, sustainable development and housing, and urban planning and housing. Her research findings have been published widely. She is a former member of the Home Ownership Committee of the Hong Kong Housing Authority. Currently she serves on the Town Planning Board and the Land and Building Advisory Committee of the HKSAR Government. She is the founder Chairperson of the Asia-Pacific Network for Housing Research and the Hong Kong Housing Research Network, and a founding member of the China Housing Industry Association Hong Kong Chapter.

 

== ==

Background

The Centre on Ageing was officially launched in April 1999 at the University of Hong Kong. In 2002, the Centre was the beneficiary of an endowment from Mr. Kwok Sau-po and was then renamed the Sau Po Centre on Ageing.

http://ageing.hku.hk/about.html

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New Direction of Elderly Housing : "Quality With Choice"

 

The future elderly housing in Hong Kong should go for "Housing with Care", according to the "Comprehensive Study on the Housing Needs of the Elderly in Hong Kong" conducted by the University of Hong Kong and commissioned by the Hong Kong Housing Society (HKHS). Apart from accommodation, other elderly services should also be provided to fulfill "Ageing in Place", including continuum of care, community care and home design.

 

The Study finds that there is not a big problem with the supply of elderly housing in Hong Kong in terms of quantity. "Quality with Choice" has become a new focus of elderly housing in the long run. "Quality with Choice" should address a number of basic principles including dignity, aging in place, continuum of care, convenient lodging and community environment, as well as social inclusion.

 

The Study also anticipates that about 20,000 elderly households have housing needs within the period of 2003-2006, of which about 90% indicate their aspiration for moving to public housing. It is believed that public housing tenants have easier access to the community support services which are less available in the other market options.

 

"The Senior Citizen Residences (SEN) Scheme developed by the Housing Society takes the lead in introducing the concepts of "Housing with Care" and "Aging in Place" in Hong Kong. The Study shows that SEN has proved to meet the long-term housing needs of the elderly. In view of the housing demand brought about by the increasing elderly population, the Housing Society will map out suitable plans to cope with the short-term, medium-term and long-term situations," remarked HKHS Chairman David C Lee.

 

"There is a lack of variety of housing products for the elderly of different income groups on the market. The concept of "Housing with Care" integrates accommodation, health services and social support services. A tripartite partnership among the Government, non-government housing organizations and private developers is required to drive the work," said Dr Ernest Chui, Associate Professor, Department of Social Work and Social Administration, The University of Hong Kong.

 

In response to the recommendations of the Study, the Housing Society will start to put the "Universal Design" on trial at Moon Lok Dai Hai in Tsuen Wan which is now under rehabilitation. Some units will be modified for the elderly tenants to enable them to enjoy "Aging in Place". The Housing Society will also set up a "Resource Centre" to provide the code of "Universal Design" for reference by all interested parties. It will also offer advisory services on home safety and home risk assessment, and hold home safety talks for elderly households.

 

http://www.hkhs.com/eng/wnew/pr_040608.asp

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Planning integral to retirement

 

00221917e13e0b40e59b0e.jpg

Multigenerational households

 

The Chinese tradition of multigenerational households may be in jeopardy as pensions and secured lifetime employment continues to diminish in size and availability.

 

According to the Census and Statistics Department's 2006 Elderly Profile Report, 37.9 percent of the elderly live in public rental housing and 56.3 percent in private permanent housing. About 83 percent of the elderly live with family members (spouse and/or children) and about 10 percent live alone.

 

Several experts agree that Hong Kong's limited space and high cost of living impact the ability of households to support senior family members.

 

"In Hong Kong, different generations are not living together, but they like to live closely in the same community to maintain networks and relations," said Ma.

 

Senior citizens these days have to keep up with changing social values.

 

"More and more elderly choose to live by themselves as they would prefer to have their only living patterns and habits, also to avoid creating tense relations with other kids and their in-laws," said Ma.

 

Chan, however, offered the explanation that "under the influence of the Western culture most people, especially the younger generation, yearn and look for more personal space and privacy. Thus, most of them strive to live apart once when they are better off financially or when they get married."

 

He pointed out that a 1997 study that "highlighted that the next generation of elderly would choose to live apart from their children so as to maintain their independence and good relations with their children."

 

"Under the downturn of the economic climate, another common phenomenon is that some of the adult children move back to live with the elders after they sell their flats to pay debts. This situation might upset the balance of the whole family in the sense of living habits and family financial expenses," said Chan.

 

Retiring abroad

 

With these issues in mind, some seniors choose to retire abroad or remain there having left Asia many years ago.

 

Dr Ernest Chui, associate director of Sau Po Centre on Ageing at University of Hong Kong, said that a great majority (of seniors) stay in Hong Kong while a small number of them migrate to the mainland when they retire. Some join their children in Canada, United States and Australia."

 

"The old concept of retirement as staying-put is no longer the trend," said one 75-year-old man who now works in Hong Kong as a consultant. "It is not the word retirement that is important; it is a 'change of lifestyle'." He described himself as an "East-West snowbird" having decided to return to Hong Kong after spending 41 years in Canada.

 

/more: http://www.chinadaily.net/hkedition/2009-0...ent_7648499.htm

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UK CARE HOMES:

======

Barchester Healthcare...... : http://www.barchester.com/

BUPA Care Homes........... : http://www.bupacarehomes.co.uk/

Cragemoor Healthcare..... : http://www.craegmoor.co.uk/home/default.aspx

Care UK..........................: http://www.careuk.com/

Four Seasons Health Care.: http://www.fshc.co.uk/

Southern Cross Healthcare: http://www.schealthcare.co.uk/

 

 

McCarthy Stone plc

Churchill Retirement

Anglia Secure Homes

Beechcroft Developments

Pegasus Retirement Homes Plc

Retirement Villages Ltd

Sunrise Senior Living

Signature Homes

 

I did a lot of research 5 years ago for our company to enter this sector, but we decided against it.

 

Here in the UK it is split into various sectors.

 

-Sheltered Housing / Independent Living - for active residents where the housebuilder basically outsources the core caring element.

Examples: Beechcroft, English Courtyards, Raven Audley, McCarthy Stone, Churchill etc.

 

-Assisted Living. Care is deeper and a next step on from sheltered.

Examples: Sunrise, Signature etc.

 

- Care Homes, Nursing Homes, EMI Care - much higher level of care for the more needy.

Examples; BUPA, Southern Cross etc.

 

-CCRCs - continuing care retirement communities

Examples:Richmond, Barchester, Care Village Group, Retirement Villages

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I did a lot of research 5 years ago for our company to enter this sector, but we decided against it.

 

My partner is very interested in this sector, and she will be reading the posts here.

Can you tell us why your company decided against it?

 

Presumably, there is a big "property price risk" in entering this sector when property is near a cyclical peak.

Will the decision look different now, after a 20% drop in prices? Will it look different in 2-3 years if property

is 50% of its peak, and appears to be bottoming?

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My partner is very interested in this sector, and she will be reading the posts here.

Can you tell us why your company decided against it?

 

Presumably, there is a big "property price risk" in entering this sector when property is near a cyclical peak.

Will the decision look different now, after a 20% drop in prices? Will it look different in 2-3 years if property

is 50% of its peak, and appears to be bottoming?

 

Yes. Entering a market nearing its peak is never usually that good an idea!

 

Also it is incredibly capital intensive. The return on capital employed on new developments is poor.

 

It remains on our radars even now. However, what is clear from colleagues who work in this sector is that downsizers are considerbly less likely to "sell the crown jewels" when they are seeing vast drops on their main asset. So they are tending to stay put regardless of their age, health and so on. They can "afford" to wait for the market to return in 4-8 years etc. This is clearly the wrong decision for them, but understandable.

 

From a demographical perspective it is a "no-brainer".

 

They key for an entrant will be creating enhanced land values (to be able to buy land) over and above normal resi development. In other words once we can achieve a premium on the GDV, this will enable us to bid higher values on the land. Currently there is not sufficient premium to do ALL of the following on a regular basis:

 

- pay for the management (warden, help, care etc.) costs

- pay for the increase capital / finance costs

- have a better turnover of capital than lower density development which can be phased easily

- increased development costs (marketing, overhead, professionals etc) due to a longer build out and invariably more complicated project, so higher build costs

 

One has to think about comparing this model with straight forward new build because in simple terms the underlying common denominator is the land (which can be used for both forms). Why would you sell your land to someone paying you less, or the same at best?

 

It is difficult, for now, to see this market returing so rapidly as speculative housebuilding regardless of the ageing time-bomb etc.

 

The demand will be less until the market is clearly on its way up and levels have returned to 07 (8-10 years?) and supply is as explained above not forthcoming.

 

My personal feeling (not corportate view) is that this property sector will outperform all other types in the final 7 years of the next 18 cycle (from say 2019 or thereabouts). On this basis a good entry would be 4 years prior to that say from 2014-2015 allowing sufficient time to build up a land bank and brand.

 

From the corporate view however, we may not exploit this, because it is generally held that normal resi prices will creep up rapidly in about 4 years or so due to a complete destruction in supply since last year (pent up demand theory etc.)

 

One thing you should be aware of too is that, I think, from 2011 new build houses will have to be built to a new standard called "Life time Homes". This means that the house should be easily adaptable for an ageing occupant. I can give you more detail on this if you want. This obviously has implications for those specialising only in over 55s development.

 

A lot of builders have entered this market and most have dabbled and left within a few years. Only a few have made it work. Raw capitalism doesn't work well with care...yet!

 

 

 

 

 

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Wow, what a great post.

Thanks for those views, Ecoface. They really resonant with my own, and those of my partner.

 

Yes. Entering a market nearing its peak is never usually that good an idea!

Also it is incredibly capital intensive. The return on capital employed on new developments is poor.

 

...They key for an entrant will be creating enhanced land values (to be able to buy land) over and above normal resi development.

. . .

My personal feeling (not corportate view) is that this property sector will outperform all other types in the final 7 years of the next 18 cycle (from say 2019 or thereabouts). On this basis a good entry would be 4 years prior to that say from 2014-2015 allowing sufficient time to build up a land bank and brand.

 

From the corporate view however, we may not exploit this, because it is generally held that normal resi prices will creep up rapidly in about 4 years or so due to a complete destruction in supply since last year (pent up demand theory etc.)

 

One thing you should be aware of too is that, I think, from 2011 new build houses will have to be built to a new standard called "Life time Homes". This means that the house should be easily adaptable for an ageing occupant.

 

I dont want to say too much about her own situation, but our feeling was was in line with this. But the investment that we are considering is not in the UK.

 

Basically, my partner wants to "help aging people" in HK and in China, but to do it in a way that makes some money too. Her family's company holds what might be a strategic piece of land in China, and they have thought of (eventually) getting it rezoned for a new use. Presently, it has a factory on it. In 2015, when the HK/Macau/Zhuhai bridge is complete, it may be possible to drive to the property in about 45 minutes from HK's airport. Wages and costs in this part of China are far lower that in HK.

 

On our recent trip to the US, we visited the assisted living facility that my own parents are planning to move into in a year or two. We both thought that maybe this is something that should and could be done for HK people. Traditionallly old folks lived with their children, but HK flats are small, and they quickly get overcrowded. So now seniors are increasingly willing to live apart from their children, but they want to be somewhere that children (and garndchildren!) can visit, but is within a reasonable driving distance so that visits will not be discouraged. Zhuhai is now too far away, it can take 3-4 hours to raech there from HK now. But that will change dramatically when the bridge is built.

 

Our idea is to look for a foreign partner, from the US or the UK, who has the "caring expertise", and knows what type of property to build, but may not yet have a "China strategy", or a Chinese partner. The ideal time to start building may still be 2-3 years away, but it may not be too early to seek a partner, start plannning, and maybe to buy, or start rezoning land.

 

What do you think? Does this sound like a viable plan? Do you know any companies that may seek a Chinese partner?

 

ccli2.png

We may have seen the mid-cycle low, of have a retest in the next year or so.

(The cycle for Macau, and Zhuhai may be similar, but I cannot say for sure.)

 

BTW, in terms of cycles, we are at/near the right point in the 18 year cycle. The next peak is due in 2015, and we are probably at least half way through the mid-cycle correction. There may be some bargains available right now in Zhuhai, especially if you can find cheap land, and get it rezoned.

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What do you think? Does this sound like a viable plan? Do you know any companies that may seek a Chinese partner?

 

 

Given the cycle, then yes, from a timing perspective this looks good.

 

It may be worthwhile tackling the planning permission first, then once you have that lined up, deal with the formation of the company and management team. You could finance the planning permission side yourself perhaps? Once you have the permission your venture will be much more attractive to investors and a management team I guess. I have no experience whatsoever of planning laws in HK, but the RICS's Asian HQ is there and I am sure that they could point in the direction of a planning consultant with relevant experience.

 

RICS Asia

Room 1804

18/F Hopewell Centre

Wanchai

Hong Kong

T + 852 2537 7117

F + 852 2537 2756

E ricsasia@rics.org

 

In the UK it can take us from 2-8 years to get planning permission depending on the area and site (and sometimes never at all).

 

Through a few quick searches I stumbled across this which is a co-incidence:

 

Code : 2009044

Event Name : Elderly Housing - Challenges & Opportunities

Speaker: Mr. Daniel Lau, BSocSc MHKIS, MRICS, General Manager (Property Development), Hong Kong Housing Society

Event Date: 18-06-2009

Event Time: 7:00 pm – 8:30 pm

Venue: Surveyors Learning Centre, Suite 811, 8/F., Jardine House, Central, Hong Kong

Organizer: General Practice

Closing Date: 04-06-2009

Fee: HK$120 per person

HK$150 per person for walk-in participants (subject to availability)

Quota: Priority is given to GPD Members

Language: English

Details: Being common in many developed cities, purposely- built housing for the elderly is completely new in Hong Kong. This type of product, being an integration of hardware construction and software services, aims to provide a one-stop solution for the elderly, to enable them to enjoy “healthy aging” and “aging in place”. Targeted at the middle income elderly, the 2 pilot projects developed by the Hong Kong Housing Society, Jolly Place and Cheerful Court, were well received in that all the units thereof have been leased out and many eligible elderly are currently on the waiting queue.

 

Our speaker will share with you the various hurdles that have been gone through in the development of such new housing product, from initial planning, design, land grant, disposal, marketing, to eventual management. These practical experiences should be helpful to the GP surveyors interested in this new housing type with anticipated growing demand in the face of the fast-increasing aging population in Hong Kong.

 

 

You might pick up some good contacts from the networking...

Go to: for the Honk Kong Surveyors site.

 

http://www.hkis.org.hk/hkis/html/professio...tail.jsp?id=632

 

I don't have any contacts or know of any companies that have equity or ambitions to go to HK housing of this type; frankly most I know of are worrying about their own survival at the moment!

 

Good luck!

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Another very useful post !, thanks Ecoface

 

That Event sounds very useful, and it is not expensive, so thanks again.

It could prove very useful to my partner, and I might go along with her.

 

I don't have any contacts or know of any companies that have equity or ambitions to go to HK housing of this type;

frankly most I know of are worrying about their own survival at the moment!

Good luck!

 

Actually, Zhuhai is in China, so planning permission my be a very different process. Faster maybe, too.

I think my partner's brothers, who were/are involved in the manufacturing business there may know a fair amount about it.

In fact, I think her father may have contributed to setting up a hospital there, if so, they may have the "right contacts" already.

 

Actually, the charts for the US companies in this sector look VERY INTERESTING.

Most of them hit lows in early March, and since then have shown stromg reversals upwards.

I would expect that they will now correct with the rest of the market, but after that, another run-up may follow.

 

I am planning to buy one or two, since these are some of the best-looking charts around

 

I am wondering if we may see similar share price action in the UK?

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I am wondering if we may see similar share price action in the UK?

 

 

I doubt it yet, as anything "property", has a lot further to go than in the US (12 month lags etc.). But then again this sector is quite defensive (like health care etc.), so could see better relative performance.

 

It is difficult, at this stage to assess whether or not recent gains are due to the general pull of the post March rally.

 

The good things is that these stocks are not "sexy" and don't catch the imagination of the retailers, so good opps.?

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McCarthy Stone plc

 

McCarthy Stone plc = PART OF HBOS now in turn part of Lloyds Banking Gp - giving them a bit of problem loss wise.

 

 

http://pulse.alacra.com/analyst-comments/M...ne_plc-C1010695

 

But still like you say with a long term view a good field to be in

 

I would say I went with an elderly relative to a McCarthy Stone retirement flat complex. While it seemed very suitable property size & fittings wise and would give a nice community type complex for those living there, the downside is the cost of mantenance fees were quite expensive - from memory circa £7000 a year which is a big big chunk for any retired UK person on anything like a standard pension

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McCarthy Stone plc = PART OF HBOS now in turn part of Lloyds Banking Gp - giving them a bit of problem loss wise.

 

 

http://pulse.alacra.com/analyst-comments/M...ne_plc-C1010695

 

But still like you say with a long term view a good field to be in

 

I would say I went with an elderly relative to a McCarthy Stone retirement flat complex. While it seemed very suitable property size & fittings wise and would give a nice community type complex for those living there, the downside is the cost of mantenance fees were quite expensive - from memory circa £7000 a year which is a big big chunk for any retired UK person on anything like a standard pension

My mum is in one of these and they are not too bad but problems with the model are appearing. Originally they used to be for the able bodied and had an onsite manager plus a care line reachable by pull cord or round the neck alerter. When the leaseholders/occupiers became too infirm then they would have to go to either hospital or a care home with a greater level of care.

 

But now something has occurred where the infirm are now able to stay in the building and have visiting nursing care and in at least one case 24 hour care. It seems that those who hold the master lease for the entire building, not always McCarthy & Stone, cannot get the people out of their flats. The knock on effect for the able bodied is a far greater noise level, round the clock. The manager has now gone as the master lease can no longer afford the person full time and the care line has changed to a service that offers little more than an ambulance calling service all for the same price, with very little that the leaseholders/occupiers seem to be able to do because of the way the maintenance contracts have been written.

 

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Just had a quick skim through this post... Ever heard of cohousing, Dr B?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohousing

 

I hadnt, but it looks like an interesting concept:

EXCERPT:

A cohousing[1] community is a type of intentional community composed of private homes with full kitchens, supplemented by extensive common facilities. A cohousing community is planned, owned and managed by the residents, groups of people who want more interaction with their neighbours. Common facilities vary but usually include a large kitchen and dining room where residents can take turns cooking for the community. Other facilities may include a laundry, pool, child care facilities, offices, internet access, game room, TV room, tool room or a gym. Through spatial design and shared social and management activities, cohousing facilitates intergenerational interaction among neighbors, for the social and practical benefits. There are also economic and environmental benefits to sharing resources, space and items.[2]

 

Origins of cohousing

The modern theory of cohousing originated in Denmark in the 1960s among groups of families who were dissatisfied with existing housing and communities that they felt did not meet their needs. Bodil Graae published "Children Should Have One Hundred Parents," spurring a group of 50 families to organize around a community project in 1967. This group developed the cohousing project Sættedammen, which is the oldest known cohousing community in the world. Another key organizer was Jan Gudmand Høyer who drew inspiration from his architectural studies at Harvard and interaction with experimental U.S. communities of the era. He published "The Missing Link between Utopia and the Dated One-Family House" paper in 1968, converging a second group.

 

The Danish term bofællesskab (living community) was introduced to North America as cohousing by two American architects, Kathryn McCamant and Charles Durrett, who visited several cohousing communities and wrote a book about it, Cohousing: A Contemporary Approach to Housing Ourselves. The book resonated with some existing and forming communities, such as Sharingwood in Washington state and N Street in California, who embraced the cohousing concept as a crystallization of what they were already about.

 

Contents [hide]

1 Origins of cohousing

2 Growth of cohousing

3 Design

4 Ownership form

5 References

6 Further Reading

7 External links

8 Media

(see article)

 

SunwardPanorama2003.jpg

The Sunward Cohousing community illustrating greenspace preservation, tightly clustered housing, and parking on periphery, Ann Arbor, Michigan, 2003.

 

It seems like you can get some sensible density. Now if you can only built it near a mass transit line...

You might have a glimpse of a sustainable future

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McCarthy Stone plc = PART OF HBOS now in turn part of Lloyds Banking Gp - giving them a bit of problem loss wise.

 

"The 1.04 billion pounds debt backing McCarthy & Stone's 1.1 billion pounds acquisition by property investors David and Simon Reuben and retail entrepreneur Tom Hunter was led by Lloyds Banking Group's Bank of Scotland in 2006. The loan included 890 million pounds of senior debt and 150 million pounds of junior debt, split into 40 million pounds of second lien and 110 million pounds of mezzanine. Any recovery in the overall property market may not hit the retirement care home sector immediately, said Panmure Gordon analyst Rachael Waring. "Although there is underlying demand, it's a very difficult sector to be operating in at the moment," she said."

 

I remember thinking 2-3 years ago: A good business, but it is the wrong time in the cycle to buy their shares.

 

Here's one that is still public in the UK:

 

SCHE.L Southern Cross Healthcare LON SCHE 109.0p +1.50 ( 1.40%) 204.99M ... update

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  • 1 month later...
Through a few quick searches I stumbled across this which is a co-incidence:

 

Event Name : Elderly Housing - Challenges & Opportunities

Speaker: Mr. Daniel Lau, BSocSc MHKIS, MRICS, General Manager (Property Development), Hong Kong Housing Society

Event Date: 18-06-2009

Event Time: 7:00 pm – 8:30 pm

Venue: Surveyors Learning Centre, Suite 811, 8/F., Jardine House, Central, Hong Kong

Organizer: General Practice

 

Did you manage to find the time to go to this? If so was it worth it?

 

 

 

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Did you manage to find the time to go to this? If so was it worth it?

 

Very worthwhile! We learned alot.

 

HKHS has two pilot project underway:

Jolly Place and Cheerful Court

(The government helped, by making the land available at a much-reduced land "premium";

it might have even been free- I forgot to make a note on that.)

 

It took them some time and promotional effort to find their tenants, but they are full now, with 200 people

on the waiting list. The best way to advertise, they found, was to have happy residents, who then gave

the projects good "word of mouth."

 

There's huge room for growth in these projects for the elderly.

- 15% of America's over 60 live in some specialised housing project for older folk, and 5% in Australia.

The equivalent figure in HK is "less than 1%". And the number of people in that age bracket is growing fast.

 

They have learned some lessons:

+ Happy people live longer, so the turnover rates are less than expected

+ They are keen to work with some foreign "service providers", since they are still finding the management

of these places to be a challenge.

 

So again, very useful presentation - thanks for suggesting it!

 

== ==

 

I want to stay in touch with the presenters, and have suggested a follow-up meeting.

Here's what I suggested to them...

 

xxx

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