GOLD

[FLASH]

Couldn't believe my luck when I saw the prices this morning and bought another 1000oz silver. I warn you the last twice I have bought the price has plumetted so there may be a bargain coming your way.

[Steve Netwriter]

This is what I mean. Notice how the silver price in US$ has dropped back ~~2/3 from the peak relative to the recent minimum.

But in JPY, it's more like only 1/3 down from the peak.

 

 

 

Obviously gold & silver are doing better than Yen at the moment.

 

[romans holiday]

Good segment with Peter Schiff on CBS. Good to see this kind of discussion about the US economy on mainstream media.

http://www.europac.net/Schiff-CBS-7-20-08_lg.asp

[Bobsta]

Obviously gold & silver are doing better than Yen at the moment.

I don't think you can say that.

 

G&S are both down against the USD compared to (say) 1st March.

Yen is also down against the USD compared to 1st March.

 

Therefore a graph plotting G or S against JPY will show more modest falls than one against USD... But it doesn't necessarily follow that JPY has fared worse than G or S.... just that they've BOTH fallen vs the USD.

 

JPY has had a shocking week since 16th July though, I have to agree!

[CIGA]

Failing that we could go back and retest 850-60.

 

I can't see 850-60 (the 200dma is at around 880 right?)

 

If I see 860 it will be a back the truck up/sell all worldly goods and buy gold/silver moment.

[wren]

Chrysophobia.

 

According to basic internet dictionaries, this means "fear of gold". By analogy with the word "xenophobia", I think it might be taken to mean more generally a "morbid fear, dislike or hatred of gold".

 

Just that, as I'm sure many of you have noticed on other BBs, a thread about gold is often a highly polarized slanging match. I've taken part in one yesterday, which got me thinking (don't laugh ) about why it is that some people are so against gold.

 

Major features of chrysophobia seem to be:

 

1) failure to recognize what money is in its entirety, and what it's for (exchange, store of value)

2) failure to realize that gold still is money (ultimate form of payment according to Greenspan)

 

Now those are perfectly understandable, if one has not taken time to read up on the subjects. No sign of emotional disturbance.

 

But, get this.

 

3) hatred of others having money

 

So, perhaps there is an internal conflict, possibly subconscious, between ideas that gold is a useless metal and that it is real money. I think that at heart this is what really bugs them.

 

Thanks to GF we already have the colloquial term Haterz^TM.

 

Please add your views on what characterizes this common syndrome, chrysophobia.

 

Many of us on this thread are the converse of chrysophobes, chrysophiles. Unfortunately, I don't know equivalent terms for silver.

 

[ologhai]

So, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that gold and silver will spend the next few years growing at a rate of no less than, say, 15% a year?

 

Just askin'...

[romans holiday]

So, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that gold and silver will spend the next few years growing at a rate of no less than, say, 15% a year?

 

Just askin'...

 

Only 15% a year. Seems a no brainer to me. I expect to see 15% a month once we get through the summer doldrums. But then maybe I am just a chrysophile.

[CIGA]

So, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that gold and silver will spend the next few years growing at a rate of no less than, say, 15% a year?

 

Just askin'...

 

AS LONG AS THE FUNDAMENTALS stay in tact gold will rise in double digits EVERY YEAR.

 

Look at zimbabwe and price gold in their currency to understand why.

 

[cazlane]

Chrysophobia.

 

According to basic internet dictionaries, this means "fear of gold". By analogy with the word "xenophobia", I think it might be taken to mean more generally a "morbid fear, dislike or hatred of gold".

 

Just that, as I'm sure many of you have noticed on other BBs, a thread about gold is often a highly polarized slanging match. I've taken part in one yesterday, which got me thinking (don't laugh ) about why it is that some people are so against gold.

 

Major features of chrysophobia seem to be:

 

1) failure to recognize what money is in its entirety, and what it's for (exchange, store of value)

2) failure to realize that gold still is money (ultimate form of payment according to Greenspan)

 

Now those are perfectly understandable, if one has not taken time to read up on the subjects. No sign of emotional disturbance.

 

But, get this.

 

3) hatred of others having money

 

So, perhaps there is an internal conflict, possibly subconscious, between ideas that gold is a useless metal and that it is real money. I think that at heart this is what really bugs them.

 

Thanks to GF we already have the colloquial term Haterz^TM.

 

Please add your views on what characterizes this common syndrome, chrysophobia.

 

Many of us on this thread are the converse of chrysophobes, chrysophiles. Unfortunately, I don't know equivalent terms for silver.

 

I think you are certainly right with your points wren-and I don't think it matters what medium you store wealth in there will always be those who begrudge you having it especially if they don't perceive you deserve/earned it. Envy can be a dark emotion that makes some people very bitter and resentful towards others.

Now gold in particular-I do not dislike gold, in fact I have some (mostly handed down and still will be into the future). My main gripe is that most people have no clue about the REAL cost of gold or plainly have no conscience about it and Im not talking about the spot price here. Gold mining is highly exploitative at social and environmental levels and that is an area that I cannot consolidate too easily with my own views and the experiences of my ancestors (native american indians) in this respect. See here: http://www.ethicalcorp.com/content.asp?ContentID=5139

I do not see much consideration of these factors when people talk about 'loading up' or at whose expense they are doing so.

[wrongmove]

Look at zimbabwe and price gold in their currency to understand why.

 

The same argument could be made for absolutely any asset on the planet. Even Taylor Wimpey shares look good in Z$!

 

 

Not a critisism of gold, btw, just a critism of the argument.

[sossij]

Unfortunately, I don't know equivalent terms for silver.

 

Argyrophiles? From biology, argyrophilic cells bind silver salts.

 

A general fear of silver in all its forms is argyrophobia according to a quick google...

[bitbigt]

Chrysophobia....

 

I'm definitely a Chrysophile for the next year or so, at which point I plan to see how the world looks and re-evaluate the attraction of our yellow metal

 

Contrary to wren's experience, I don't know any Chrysophobes. Everyone I ever chat to about gold says things like "yes, of course, gold is never going to loose it value". They just don't buy any because its "too complicated" compared to putting ones money in the bank. I only wish they'd realise that "yes, of course, fiat is always going to loose it value"!!!

 

So I suspect that:

'philes' for gold, 'philes' for fiat: 99% of people (Joe Public)

'philes' for gold, 'phobes' for fiat: 0.9% of people (most posters on this bb)

'phobes' for gold, 'philes' for fiat: 0.1% of people (wrens recent discussants)

 

So wren, you need to stop wasting your time on this latter tiny group of people

...instead, we should be trying to put the hoards of Joe Public off of fiat!

 

More generally, on a day like this, its good to note this MoneyWeek article out today:

 

http://www.moneyweek.com/file/50927/why-go...mping-buys.html

[romans holiday]

Argyrophiles? From biology, argyrophilic cells bind silver salts.

 

A general fear of silver in all its forms is argyrophobia according to a quick google...

 

Feel an attack of linguaphobia coming on.

[wrongmove]

Contrary to wren's experience, I don't know any Chrysophobes.

 

I am sure that chrysophobes exist, but most of the antagonism about gold on BBs in not chysophobia, it's just a dislike of that minority of goldbugs that think they know it all, and that they know what is best for everyone. That attitude riles people, whatever the subject matter.

 

 

 

[bitbigt]

I am sure that chrysophobes exist, but most of the antagonism about gold on BBs in not chysophobia, it's just a dislike of that minority of goldbugs that think they know it all, and that they know what is best for everyone. That attitude riles people, whatever the subject matter.

Interesting... ...but there are two things in what you said:

 

Goldbugs being right

Goldbugs being cocky and patronising about it

 

I personally think the first point is true, but on the second point I find most goldbugs to be intellegent respectful individuals, not cocky 'barstewards'

 

Your comment suggests you disagree on this latter point?

[wrongmove]

I am sure that chrysophobes exist, but most of the antagonism about gold on BBs in not chysophobia, it's just a dislike of that minority of goldbugs that think they know it all, and that they know what is best for everyone. That attitude riles people, whatever the subject matter.

 

It only takes one or two to start a flame war. I wouldn't bother visiting this forum if I thoughty the majority were arrogant know-it-alls.

 

 

[Steve Netwriter]

I don't think you can say that.

 

G&S are both down against the USD compared to (say) 1st March.

Yen is also down against the USD compared to 1st March.

 

Therefore a graph plotting G or S against JPY will show more modest falls than one against USD... But it doesn't necessarily follow that JPY has fared worse than G or S.... just that they've BOTH fallen vs the USD.

 

JPY has had a shocking week since 16th July though, I have to agree!

 

It must be too late. I've read that 4x times, and I'm still not sure which of us is right

But, I do agree on the JPY recently

 

This hat is really tasteless. I'm hating eating it

 

I do think it may be worth considering how many Yen get invested in gold/silver though.

 

[Steve Netwriter]

So, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that gold and silver will spend the next few years growing at a rate of no less than, say, 15% a year?

 

Just askin'...

 

I've been wondering all today where you've been. Not noticed you about for a while.

 

Did you spot my chart ?

I suggest the minimum is 40%/year !

 

 

[Steve Netwriter]

Major features of chrysophobia seem to be:

 

1) failure to recognize what money is in its entirety, and what it's for (exchange, store of value)

2) failure to realize that gold still is money (ultimate form of payment according to Greenspan)

3) hatred of others having money

 

(No criticism of the original poster at all)

 

I think this may also be a factor. Maybe the biggest factor.

 

"See you in the penthouse.... save a little fiat in case you need to use the outhouse".

 

Simply because anyone buying gold can be seen as effectively betting on the fall of fiat. And that's what most people have.

So it's a bet against most people and their wealth.

 

That I think is the fundamental difference between an investment in gold and in BT shares.

 

I've been wondering about this, and I think (I hope) I've finally sussed it.

 

[romans holiday]

And then you are something of a "heretic".... because you have not bought into what everyone believes in.

[wrongmove]

(No criticism of the original poster at all)

 

I think this may also be a factor. Maybe the biggest factor.

 

"See you in the penthouse.... save a little fiat in case you need to use the outhouse".

 

Simply because anyone buying gold can be seen as effectively betting on the fall of fiat. And that's what most people have.

So it's a bet against most people and their wealth.

 

That I think is the fundamental difference between an investment in gold and in BT shares.

 

I've been wondering about this, and I think (I hope) I've finally sussed it.

 

But who today actually has any fiat? People have debt and houses, not cash! Inflation is generally pretty friendly to both.

[romans holiday]

But who today actually has any fiat? People have debt and houses, not cash! Inflation is generally pretty friendly to both.

 

Even though people may not actually have much paper fiat, fiat is more than cash.... it is faith in the monetary system. This is why people felt so secure when their house prices were going up... and why they are positively traumatized when they continue to decline.

 

Also, I would not bank on inflation eating up debt. I think this breed of inflation is different... I heard it referred to as commodity inflation the other day, which I thought an interesting term.

[cazlane]

Even though people may not actually have much paper fiat, fiat is more than cash.... it is faith in the monetary system. This is why people felt so secure when their house prices were going up... and why they are positively traumatized when they continue to decline.

 

And not forgetting that a great many people have viewed property as their 'pension' in one form or another, be it increased equity in their own pad or that nice little BTL portfolio they accumulated. Given the condition of the stock markets and wider economy at the present time I think traumatised probably doesn't quite cover the panic some people are now feeling as they approach retirement having placed so much blind faith into the system in general.

[wrongmove]

And not forgetting that a great many people have viewed property as their 'pension' in one form or another, be it increased equity in their own pad or that nice little BTL portfolio they accumulated. Given the condition of the stock markets and wider economy at the present time I think traumatised probably doesn't quite cover the panic some people are now feeling as they approach retirement having placed so much blind faith into the system in general.

 

Very true.

 

But gold is no good to a pensioner - it doesn't generate an income. In fact, it generally costs money to store. All a pensioner could do with gold is to slowly sell it in order to eat etc., with no chance at all of ever being able to top up again.