GOLD

[fitkid]

why is gold better than platinum for money?

 

"THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN" including platinum.

 

http://www.platinum.matthey.com/publicatio...ry-of-platinum/

 

A History of Platinum

 

Early Occurrences

 

Although the modern history of platinum only begins in the 18th century, platinum has been found in objects dating from 700 BC, in particular the famous Casket of Thebes (see image). This little box is decorated with hieroglyphics in gold, silver and an alloy of the platinum group metals.

 

For the Spanish Conquistadors of the 16th century, platinum was a nuisance. While panning for gold in New Granada they were puzzled by some white metal nuggets which were mixed with the nuggets of gold and which were difficult to separate. The Spanish called this metal Platina, a diminutive of Plata, the Spanish word for silver. Some thought that the platinum was a sort of unripe gold, so that for many years it had no value except as a means of counterfeiting.

 

Scientific Developments

 

In the 18th century platinum was a tough challenge to European scientists trying to understand and use the metal. Their difficulties came from the very properties which make platinum suitable for so many applications, such as its high melting point and its great resistance to corrosion. The problems were compounded by the other metals of the platinum group, which were present in raw platinum in varying quantities.

 

In 1751, a Swedish researcher named Sheffer succeeded in melting platinum by adding arsenic to it. He also recognised platinum as a new element. In 1782, Lavoisier achieved the first true melting of platinum using oxygen, which had recently been discovered; even so, it was another 25 years before commercial quantities of platinum could be produced by this method. During this period, platinum was used for the decoration of porcelain as well as for making laboratory ware and ornaments.

 

In the 19th century scientific and technological progress gathered pace. During 1802, Wollaston (pictured right) and Tennant developed refining of platinum and discovered palladium, followed in 1804 by rhodium, iridium and osmium. Meanwhile Wollaston perfected a method of producing malleable platinum. Grove studied the catalytic properties of platinum and in 1842 devised the very first fuel cell using platinum electrodes.

 

In England, Percival Norton Johnson began work on refining the platinum group metals. He took as his apprentice in 1838 George Matthey, and this collaboration gave birth to the partnership of Johnson and Matthey in 1851. The two men perfected the techniques of separation and refining of platinum group metals and the melting and casting of pure and homogeneous ingots. Matthey went on to create the standard metre in platinum and iridium, at the request of the French Academy of Science, in 1879.

 

 

Growth in Supplies

 

Until 1820 Colombia was the only known source of platinum. As production began to decline, deposits were by chance discovered in the Ural mountains of Russia. These became the principal source of platinum for the next 100 years.

 

In Canada in 1888, platinum was discovered in the nickel-copper ores of Ontario. Between the end of the First World War and the 1950s, Canada was the world’s major source of supply. In 1924 a farmer in the Transvaal province of South Africa discovered several nuggets of platinum in a riverbed. Following this up, the geologist Hans Merensky discovered two deposits each of around 100 kilometres in length. These became known as the Bushveld Igneous Complex and its mines today provide three quarters of the world’s platinum output.

 

The Last 50 Years

 

Platinum mine production has grown continuously since the Second World War in response to the development of new applications. One of the principal new uses of platinum was in the petroleum industry, where platinum catalysts were introduced to increase the octane rating of gasoline and to manufacture important primary feedstocks for the growing plastics industry.

 

During the 1960s, demand for platinum in jewellery experienced a spectacular rise in Japan, appealing to the Japanese public by virtue of its purity, colour, prestige and value. Platinum jewellery later succeeded in penetrating other markets – in Germany in the 1970s, Switzerland and Italy in the 1980s and the United Kingdom, the USA and China – today the world’s biggest single market for platinum jewellery – in the 1990s.

 

In 1974, with its new regulations on air quality, the United States inaugurated the era of the autocatalyst, a technology which uses platinum group metals to convert the noxious gases in vehicle exhausts into harmless substances. Use of autocatalysts has spread worldwide and since its introduction has prevented over 12 billion tonnes of pollution from entering the earth’s atmosphere.

 

 

 

During the 1980s the rapid increase in the value of precious metals, including platinum, gave rise to the production of a variety of bars and coins, many of them collectable items, to meet demand for platinum as a physical investment product.

 

By the 1990s, platinum was growing in use as a medical treatment against certain forms of cancer and the same decade saw a multiplication in the uses of machined platinum alloy components (as seen right) to treat cardiac and other disease.

 

HTH CRUSH.

 

[G0ldfinger]

[G0ldfinger]

OK, I guess it is really that we get bored by the same questions over and over again.

 

A monetary commodity has the signature that its readily available above ground supplies are huge in comparison to what is newly created (mined) every year, and what is used up (consumed, destroyed) every year.

 

Gold is pretty much the only commodity that ticks this box.

 

Furthermore, it's the only commodity central banks have on their balance sheets.

 

The other boxes a commodity that wants to be money has to tick are:

- homogeneity

- divisibility

- durability

- scarcity

 

The precious metals all make fairly good money. But gold has been chosen by the market to be their king.

[Schaublin]

G0ldfinger in the picture, CTR appears to be urinating on you - is that some kind of German version of 'water off a duck's back?'

[crushtherents]

Crush you question ref platinum is genuine and i was asked exactly the same question in person only yesterday.I can see you are relatively new to this topic/information so would respectfully direct you to the vast information that is contained from the beginning of this thread which once you have read and digested all of the same should answer your question fully.But like all things in life as pointed out by the very wise and learned schaubulin in the civil liberties thread your life experiences and education could lead you to determine different conclusions to the very same information seen by others.

That is life BUT REMEMBER

 

"THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN" including platinum.

"THE MORE WE CHANGE THE MORE WE STAY THE SAME"

 

thanks. i am catching up

 

http://www.platinum.matthey.com/publicatio...ry-of-platinum/

 

A History of Platinum

 

Early Occurrences

 

Although the modern history of platinum only begins in the 18th century, platinum has been found in objects dating from 700 BC, in particular the famous Casket of Thebes (see image). This little box is decorated with hieroglyphics in gold, silver and an alloy of the platinum group metals.

 

For the Spanish Conquistadors of the 16th century, platinum was a nuisance. While panning for gold in New Granada they were puzzled by some white metal nuggets which were mixed with the nuggets of gold and which were difficult to separate. The Spanish called this metal Platina, a diminutive of Plata, the Spanish word for silver. Some thought that the platinum was a sort of unripe gold, so that for many years it had no value except as a means of counterfeiting.

 

Scientific Developments

 

In the 18th century platinum was a tough challenge to European scientists trying to understand and use the metal. Their difficulties came from the very properties which make platinum suitable for so many applications, such as its high melting point and its great resistance to corrosion. The problems were compounded by the other metals of the platinum group, which were present in raw platinum in varying quantities.

 

In 1751, a Swedish researcher named Sheffer succeeded in melting platinum by adding arsenic to it. He also recognised platinum as a new element. In 1782, Lavoisier achieved the first true melting of platinum using oxygen, which had recently been discovered; even so, it was another 25 years before commercial quantities of platinum could be produced by this method. During this period, platinum was used for the decoration of porcelain as well as for making laboratory ware and ornaments.

 

In the 19th century scientific and technological progress gathered pace. During 1802, Wollaston (pictured right) and Tennant developed refining of platinum and discovered palladium, followed in 1804 by rhodium, iridium and osmium. Meanwhile Wollaston perfected a method of producing malleable platinum. Grove studied the catalytic properties of platinum and in 1842 devised the very first fuel cell using platinum electrodes.

 

In England, Percival Norton Johnson began work on refining the platinum group metals. He took as his apprentice in 1838 George Matthey, and this collaboration gave birth to the partnership of Johnson and Matthey in 1851. The two men perfected the techniques of separation and refining of platinum group metals and the melting and casting of pure and homogeneous ingots. Matthey went on to create the standard metre in platinum and iridium, at the request of the French Academy of Science, in 1879.

 

 

Growth in Supplies

 

Until 1820 Colombia was the only known source of platinum. As production began to decline, deposits were by chance discovered in the Ural mountains of Russia. These became the principal source of platinum for the next 100 years.

 

In Canada in 1888, platinum was discovered in the nickel-copper ores of Ontario. Between the end of the First World War and the 1950s, Canada was the world’s major source of supply. In 1924 a farmer in the Transvaal province of South Africa discovered several nuggets of platinum in a riverbed. Following this up, the geologist Hans Merensky discovered two deposits each of around 100 kilometres in length. These became known as the Bushveld Igneous Complex and its mines today provide three quarters of the world’s platinum output.

 

The Last 50 Years

 

Platinum mine production has grown continuously since the Second World War in response to the development of new applications. One of the principal new uses of platinum was in the petroleum industry, where platinum catalysts were introduced to increase the octane rating of gasoline and to manufacture important primary feedstocks for the growing plastics industry.

 

During the 1960s, demand for platinum in jewellery experienced a spectacular rise in Japan, appealing to the Japanese public by virtue of its purity, colour, prestige and value. Platinum jewellery later succeeded in penetrating other markets – in Germany in the 1970s, Switzerland and Italy in the 1980s and the United Kingdom, the USA and China – today the world’s biggest single market for platinum jewellery – in the 1990s.

 

In 1974, with its new regulations on air quality, the United States inaugurated the era of the autocatalyst, a technology which uses platinum group metals to convert the noxious gases in vehicle exhausts into harmless substances. Use of autocatalysts has spread worldwide and since its introduction has prevented over 12 billion tonnes of pollution from entering the earth’s atmosphere.

 

 

 

During the 1980s the rapid increase in the value of precious metals, including platinum, gave rise to the production of a variety of bars and coins, many of them collectable items, to meet demand for platinum as a physical investment product.

 

By the 1990s, platinum was growing in use as a medical treatment against certain forms of cancer and the same decade saw a multiplication in the uses of machined platinum alloy components (as seen right) to treat cardiac and other disease.

 

HTH CRUSH.

check this out http://www.24knews.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&a...mp;p=9665#p9664

[crushtherents]

OK, I guess it is really that we get bored by the same questions over and over again.

 

A monetary commodity has the signature that its readily available above ground supplies are huge in comparison to what is newly created (mined) every year, and what is used up (consumed, destroyed) every year.

 

Gold is pretty much the only commodity that ticks this box.

 

Furthermore, it's the only commodity central banks have on their balance sheets.

 

The other boxes a commodity that wants to be money has to tick are:

- homogeneity

- divisibility

- durability

- scarcity

 

The precious metals all make fairly good money. But gold has been chosen by the market to be their king.

thanks

[CIGA]

hello fitkid. he chooses to respond. i don't force him so its not really my fault if he gets tied up. if you don't mind i don't want to respect him cos hes making things up about me. I didnt ask him "why is gold money". I asked "why is gold better than platinum for money". i wasnt even asking gf, i asked another poster who choose to ignore me - thats fine. if gf ignores me i will stop responding. if he makes things up about me and threatens me and talks down to me i will respond and defend myself. as a mod he was nice to me before. as a poster hes been the most unkind person here. thank you for the way you have worded your post. you could have been like nigel w***son but you havent so thank you

 

I'm sorry but I must say the above post is an example of some of the worst grammer I have ever had the misfortune to read on this website. Crush.. Fix yourself up.

[goldenbee]

OK, I guess it is really that we get bored by the same questions over and over again.

 

Yes this is very understandable. May be a FAQ menu could be developed.

 

GBee

[crushtherents]

gf you should start deleting OT posts. he is stiring up something finished already

I'm sorry

you should be. its over. move on

[LauraB]

gf you should start deleting OT posts. he is stiring up something finished already ...............

 

you should be. its over. move on

 

CIGA (as you are well aware!) was referring to your lack of respect for the English language & not to any spat between yourself & Gf.

 

I will second CIGA's comments; even though he spelt 'grammar' incorrectly

[crushtherents]

CIGA (as you are well aware!) was referring to your lack of respect for the English language & not to any spat between yourself & Gf.

 

I will second CIGA's comments; even though he spelt 'grammar' incorrectly

ciga (as you are well aware!) did not mention 'respect' at all. you are looking to make trouble all by youre self. please go to the gramer thread and post to people who wish to discuss the subject. this one is about gold

 

[huntergatherer]

Happy days.

 

[Philder]

This thread is rapidly descending towards YouTube comments quality. All we really need is the obligatory "your a retard" and the Rubicon will be well and truly crossed. Any way we can get back on topic without a mass he said/she said flamewar? I've mentioned GEI to a few friends who are starting to develop an interest in PMs, but this thread isn't exactly a good advert for the topic.

[signofthetimes]

This thread is rapidly descending towards YouTube comments quality. All we really need is the obligatory "your a retard" and the Rubicon will be well and truly crossed. Any way we can get back on topic without a mass he said/she said flamewar? I've mentioned GEI to a few friends who are starting to develop an interest in PMs, but this thread isn't exactly a good advert for the topic.

 

here here

 

 

[huntergatherer]

here here

Or rather hear! hear!

[ecoface]

 

Gold in GBP now punched down through the 50 dma, finishing at £872 per oz.

 

I am keen to see this correction challenge the 144 dma at £835 per oz, and 200 dma at £825.

 

 

[G0ldfinger]

Gold in GBP now punched down through the 50 dma, finishing at £872 per oz.

 

I am keen to see this correction challenge the 144 dma at £835 per oz, and 200 dma at £825.

That'd be great. I have not purchased any further gold for my SIPP yet, so any sales prices would be more than welcome.

 

I am still waiting for the paper bugs' big one. So far, pretty disappointing.

 

[Chartered Surveyor]

That'd be great. I have not purchased any further gold for my SIPP yet, so any sales prices would be more than welcome.

 

I am still waiting for the paper bugs' big one. So far, pretty disappointing.

 

 

Goldfinger

 

Are you able to shed any further light with respect to your SIPP and SIPPs in general with respect to gold. I was inetersted in this about a year ago following an article I read but never followed this up. Is the minimum amount £50,000 that can be invested in a Uk SIPP and what is the investment in. Is is Physical Gold and stored at a bank or is it paper gold?

 

Your comments would be most welcome on this topic.

 

[G0ldfinger]

Goldfinger

 

Are you able to shed any further light with respect to your SIPP and SIPPs in general with respect to gold. I was inetersted in this about a year ago following an article I read but never followed this up. Is the minimum amount £50,000 that can be invested in a Uk SIPP and what is the investment in. Is is Physical Gold and stored at a bank or is it paper gold?

 

Your comments would be most welcome on this topic.

There are many SIPP administrators obviously, but let's say you wanted to buy gold through GoldMoney. They work with BerkeleyBurke.

Here is more information: http://goldmoney.com/gold-sipp.html

 

For a SIPP they want to see 50,000 (the reason mostly being the high fees, is my guess). But they also have something called GoldPension, which is like a SIPP, only you can buy bullion only, but there is almost no lower limit: http://goldmoney.com/bbsipp/bb-brochure.pdf

 

So, even if you only go for the "GoldPension" scheme, you can put all your pension money in gold bullion via GoldMoney.

[Carlton]

...i asked another poster who choose to ignore me...

I'm not sure if that was me, but in case it was the answer to your question is:

 

Gold will do a better job than platinum at preserving price stability. Platinum is an industrial metal, subject to transient supply/demand issues which change its value and that would change the general price level under a platinum-standard monetary system. Gold is not consumed very much, so its value is less subject to gyrations.

[Chartered Surveyor]

Goldfinger

 

Thankyou for your time offered

 

[d2thdr]

Boring troll

 

Why waste your time Goldfinger?

 

My exact thought on reading his posts. Quite like AliveandKicking, I think, He is!!

[fitkid]

Gold in GBP now punched down through the 50 dma, finishing at £872 per oz.

 

I am keen to see this correction challenge the 144 dma at £835 per oz, and 200 dma at £825.

More to do with the weakness of the dollar.

I would like to see 144/200 dma challenged but I for one wont be holding my breath or giving any odds.

'Purchased' some more physical today.

[Errol]

COT data looks very healthy if you are a gold bull. During the sideways consolidation, commercial short positions (or speculative long positions) have decreased by 16% in the last three months while open interest has fallen 9% in the last two months

 

http://maxkeiser.com/2011/01/13/cot-data-l...onths-while-op/

[Fortune]

This is an oldie but a goodie: an interesting reminder of gold demand in the 1990's. Fascinating to see how gold was still needed to buy food and other essential supplies even though it was right at the end of the bear market - or should I say near Brown's Bottom in 1999. Gold was and still is money. I wonder who bought the gold that the Koreans and Indonesians sold?

 

Gold hit by Asian crisis

 

The Asian economic crisis has caused the first major fall in demand for gold in six years.

A report by the World Gold Council, an association of world gold producers, shows a 55% drop in world demand to 342.1 tonnes in the first three months of the year.

The price of gold has seen its biggest slump in over a decade in the past year, plunging from around US$417 an ounce in February 1997 to its current price of around US$298.

It hit an 18-year low of US$276.50 on January 13, 1998.

Overall, gold demand in key developing markets in Asia, the Middle East and Latin America plunged 70% to 178 tonnes, mainly because of selling in Indonesia and South Korea.

 

Jewellery swapped for food

 

When the crisis hit, South Koreans conducted a huge gold-collection campaign to help repay foreign debt, while Indonesians also sold some 64 tonnes to pay for basics such as food.

The South Korean campaign alone yielded 250 tonnes of gold from people who swapped family jewellery for local currency.

But the council said the Korean gold collection campaign was over and there were signs of renewed gold demand there in recent weeks as people bought back the metal they had sold.

However, gold selling had not yet ended in Indonesia, it said.

 

European concerns

 

The council also noted concerns about further central bank sales, especially in Europe. As 11 EU countries prepare to move to monetary union next year, the market continues to suffer from an overhang of the metal.

But the council played down the concerns, saying underlying demand for gold was sound and Europe's big central banks were "gold friendly".

Investors might get a nice surprise when the new European Central Bank revealed its policy on gold reserves shortly, it added.

"The prospects are good for a strong recovery in gold demand during the remainder of the year," said the council's manager of gold-market analysis, George Milling-Stanley.

The gold market has expressed concern that, after handing over a proportion of gold reserves to the European Central Bank, Europe's domestic central banks will sell or lend more of their own stocks, thus depressing the market price.

 

The report noted that in the same three months, demand in the United States rose 10% to 88.1 tonnes and in Europe 15% to 52.1 tonnes. But Japanese demand slumped 40% to 24 tonnes.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/97438.stm