Pluto Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'm not sure this thread will survive to be honest - there is some incredibly incisive, intelligent debate on Gold still going on 'over there' and we just cannot compete: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70020 I hope the sarcasm is obvious. We need to bring some of the detractors over so we can spar with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Greetings. I have finally found this site due to a handy PM. Awight! Errol I was wondering when you'd make you're way over here...it's n ice here....nice and safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Midas on the current action The dollar weakened on the news, and gold popped to go up $6, 25 minutes after the Comex open. What a night! Platinum was down $130, palladium down over $50, and silver was 30 cents lower. Not for long re silver and more evidence of just how dramatic the silver market is today versus the last 9 years. Normally, after a pounding like gold and silver took yesterday, there is an enormous amount of follow through selling due to margin calls etc. This selling almost ALWAYS occurred regardless of outside market conditions… ALWAYS! However, those markets were driven by specs and funds loading the boat on the long side, only to be knocked out of the game by The Gold Cartel and silver price managers. As mentioned in this column for some time, the gold and silver game at the moment is in good part about Commercials running for the exits. They are desperate to cover short positions in both gold and silver. Gold and silver made their recent runs due in good part to this shortcovering, not spec buying. Thus, there are not the specs to wipe out as in past years … at least that is not asignificant factor now. Those same Commercials are also competing against this enormous, new institutional investment demand for both gold and silver. This is my kind of situation. Gold and silver are flying now. My friend Tony Wilson at Man Global had it nailed before the Comex opening (He was the only one around I could call at that time this morning). He said, "Bill they can only get down a few bucks after yesterday’s drubbing. In days gone by, gold would be down another $8 to $10. Gold will probably rally $15+ if it can go positive." Wonderful insight Tony. In addition to major league shortcovering, gold and silver caught some heavy tailwinds with the dollar falling into new low ground and oil shooting up more than $3 on surprise bullish inventory stats. YOU ARE WATCHING HOW A PRICE SUPPRESSION SCHEME FALLS APART… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConvertedGoldBug Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 That is some pretty spectacular bouncing, you have to admit ... Yes indeedy... I'll happily trade in some of my gold for those... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 That is some pretty spectacular bouncing, you have to admit ... Up and down quicker than a ho's nickers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'm not sure this thread will survive to be honest - there is some incredibly incisive, intelligent debate on Gold still going on 'over there' and we just cannot compete: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70020 I hope the sarcasm is obvious. :lol: it's pathetic i almost feel sorry for them ***almost*** but not quite :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 The BoE can't lower rates to help the housing market any more. LIBOR is not cooperating. The market wants to set the mortgage rates. Last time they dropped rates LIBOR spead widened. They are stuck, that is why they are coming up with all these schemes to get the CDO market flowing again. But the CDO market is not buying any more turd debt, even if they package it up with a fancy ribbon and give it a GOLD name. They must think the market is stupid. Spot on. But they will keep pushing the string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 more frpm Midas at GATA.org Sabre makes a very good point… There's something else too. All of the commercials coffers, without exception, are running bare. The same cannot be said for pension funds, other governments, etc. They may be late to the party but they can take these commodities anywhere they want if enough get on board. Ain't it grand! The gold open interest only fell 6367 contracts to 486,992, not much for such a huge drop in the price. This suggests The Gold Cartel was selling, in addition to some spec liquidation. The silver open interest went UP 970 contracts to 166,625 … again, so much for liquidation as the reason for yesterday’s precious metals fall. Today’s incredible comeback tells us that yesterday was a failed raid by The Gold Cartel and silver price managers. They were looking to flush out specs and cover their increasingly desperate short positions. THEY GOT STUFFED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I've obviously missed something, (but nothing new there eh?) but there seems to have been some kind of major clamping down on any mention of gold. And then I hear people aren't here to see it ... Were Pluto and Goldfinger found in their rooms naked and painted in gold or something? http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...t&p=1000545 They have now a new 'no mods criticising' gold thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Ref Rocking Horse Gordon aka Cyclops Bill, http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/ma.../mining.economy The decision of Gordon Brown to sell 50% of Britain’s gold is again in the spot light. On Thursday there will be questions raised in the House of Commons: QUOTE Alistair Darling, the chancellor, will be questioned in the Commons tomorrow about the decision of his predecessor, which the Conservatives said last night had cost the exchequer £4bn - double the losses suffered by the Bank of England on Black Wednesday. END This is a real gem. According to the BOE no one has calculated what the investment of the funds received from gold sales has returned compared to what the gold would have returned!!! Considering they are so sure that gold is a non-performing asset I guess no one really wants to see the real numbers in case the truth gets in the way of the spin! Cheers Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's getting out of control over there. :lol: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70043 EDIT: 10 User(s) are reading this topic (5 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)5 Members: Methodius, gold_thread_in_GEI, bioculture, aardvark, Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 According to the BOE no one has calculated what the investment of the funds received from gold sales has returned compared to what the gold would have returned!!! This is why the fat and incompetent Brown is the worlds best rogue trader. Ignoring all advisers he decided to sell the UK's gold on his own. This is a rogue trade and why HE is the world's best rogue trader. Barrings and Socgen would have been proud of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's getting out of control over there. :lol:http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70043 EDIT: SssssshhhhhGF!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 This is why the fat and incompetent Brown is the worlds best rogue trader. Ignoring all advisers he decided to sell the UK's gold on his own. This is a rogue trade and why HE is the world's best rogue trader. Barrings and Socgen would have been proud of him. I'd really like to know the real reason - I suspect he was ordered to do it by the central bankers ... who wanted gold crushed at the time...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Bill, Yesterday I wrote QUOTE While having total disdain for the Cartels motives I have never underestimated the enemy; they have always shown themselves to be shrewd and powerful at manipulating markets. That was my opinion up until 3 hours ago...what they pulled today was the dumbest stunt imaginable...in the midst of a commercial signal failure and with cartel groupies covering of late they are trying to quench the fire with gasoline. END The card the Cartel played yesterday was stunningly stupid and amateurish, so much so that I rushed to the bank to wire funds to my broker because this was a gift I could not refuse. The overnight news item of March 3 that the BOJ was going to support the dollar and ECB urging action from the US Authorities on the dollar was designed to be a Viagra injection for the dollar. It turned out to be a good opportunity to dump dollars and the dollar fell out of bed on March 4. With no Hail Mary rise in the USD to act as a cover for the gold raid the Cartel should have called off the raid. But they didn’t! They raided gold and most commodities anyway. I can only conclude that the typically shrewd and savvy traders of the Cartel were INSTRUCTED to take gold down (and the whole commodities complex) by someone in the establishment who knows nothing about markets. They probably did as instructed against their better judgment, but they must have known with the market structure as it was (is) the raid was doomed to fail. All I needed to see this morning on the COMEX open was that there was almost no margin call selling. Zip! Nada! Gold opened steady and went up; a sign of very well capitalized and determined longs. This was the confirmation I needed to substantiate my suspicions that this was an ill-advised raid that was going to fail and fail quickly. This was my signal to scoop up the bargains! Which I did gleefully! This episode has exposed an Achilles Heel. The manipulation of markets has undoubtedly been a "policy" directive of the establishment but they have left the operations to the expertise of the traders for the execution of the policy. This clumsy maneuver of March 4 suggests that the establishment is in such a panic that they are now calling the shots, thinking they know better than the traders. The Gold War has entered a new phase. The Cartel just charged at us with swords drawn and they met a barrage of canon and rifle fire. If I am reading the tea-leaves correctly the Gold War is now being run by politicians, and we know how good they are at running wars! Cheers Adrian Dag gone, having to leave so early today. So much to get into. Guess I’ll just have to enjoy the fun and let the market action speak for itself. We have been waiting a VERY long time for this kind of excitement … the kind that has the clueless ones almost speechless at what they are watching. NO SURPRISE TO ANY OF US IN THE GATA CAMP … And there is a lot more to come. As I go to press, the HUI is trading around 500 again and is staring at new high ground. The XAU is flying too. Those out there who are playing the short side of many of the smaller gold/silver companies (AND THEY ARE THERE, even if arbed against the senior stocks) are about to be blown out of the water in the weeks ahead. The move coming in ridiculously undervalued smaller gold/silver stocks, (like my largest holding, ECU Silver) is going to be breathtaking. FORTUNES will be made very quickly for those onboard. Gold, silver and the shares remain THE historic investment opportunity of a lifetime! GATA BE IN IT TO WIN IT! MIDAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatesy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Hi What a 24hrs in silver! Very interesting to see Sooo much commentary form you all on here. I've been swapping some rudimetary comments here for a few weeks, but like many others feel my knowledge is also reasonably rudimentary when compared with some of the levels of analysis on GEI. However, as someone who's been doing a lot of reading for the last 3 months I get the jist of lost of the macro (and micro) issues seemingly at play in gold and silver right now. I've had a degree of success with spreadbetting silver and gold futures in the last 2 months and had built a significantly leveraged position by yesterday afternoon before silver tanked yesterday pm (GMT). Due to my level of leverage the tanking made me very nervous (as Jim Rogers says "you don't want to be that man". Thankfully I was able to keep my positions open until the price rebound THIS pm to around $20.20 and then closed half my positions to minimise risk (and avoid the next haart attack!) in the belief we were seeing a "see-sawing" downwards correction; only for the price to then motor onwards to the $20.89! I've now had a chance to try and digest the masses of info on this post from the last 48 hours. Question is how real do people here believe any "commercial signal failure" to be and have I sold out too much of my position too soon? Will there be pullbacks to in the very short term to re-enter...? Also, any likemind spreadbetters out there feel free to PM me to swap thoughts, share concerns...! Opinions greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wren Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 The suggestions that we are at or nearly approaching the end of the Awareness Phase or the beginning of the Media Attention seem very plausible. However..... I have seen a question posted on another forum Are We All Walking into a Giant Bulltrap?? I wonder if this is really the bear trap on the graph. I cant see it being the bull trap on the otherside as there has been no mania phase. Apart from goldbugs and a few investors no one has been interested in gold. Everyone I know are just interested in BTL, Plasma TV's and can they afford to get a new 08 reg car. Even before I saw this post by marmite I was wondering the same thing. I reckon "fair value" for gold, which is difficult to assign but using the history, is probably around 1/3 of one month's average salary, give or take quite a bit. So we could still be somewhat below fair value at around €650 now. Now consider, where on the idealized boom-bust graph would "fair value" lie? Perhaps others have better suggestions, but I'd suggest it would be below Media Attention and maybe even below, the First Sell-Off like the long-term mean. Furthermore, the price at the end of the Awareness Phase might not be much more than that at the First Sell-Off. So, basically I am saying, along with marmite, that I think there is some real possibility that the First Sell-Off has not occurred yet in that idealized graph. Maybe wishful thinking on my part but what do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Letter sent to Midas, this fits in with Jim Sinclair's gold standar coming soon... If you believe Dow Jones is a Bilderberger Publication as I do, one would expect trial balloons from the powers to be to be published here first. Today’s op-ed in the Journal is the second time a Dow Jones Publication has mentioned a new Gold Standard in 2 weeks. The first was Barron’s Gene Epstein the past two weeks. "Another McCain adviser, Jack Kemp, champions tax cuts and pro-growth policies over budgetary rigidity. A hero of the supply-side movement whose tireless efforts helped to bring about the Reagan boom of the 1980s, Mr. Kemp has never shied away from bold proposals." "Mr. Kemp's favored economic scholar is Robert Mundell, who received his Nobel for historical research on the operation of the gold standard and his theory of optimal currency areas. Considered the intellectual father of the euro, Mr. Mundell believes gold could be used as a reserve asset in a reformed international monetary system for the 21st century." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's getting out of control over there. :lol:http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70043 EDIT: :lol: this might calm them all down http://www.watching-grass-grow.com/ Well done Errol thought you were locked in a parallel universe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIGA Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's getting out of control over there. :lol:http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=70043 EDIT: That's me!!! HAAA LOL I re-registered. They won't let me post, so i lurk on gold threads so my new name 'gold_thread_in_GEI' can be seen. I also like wren's technique poiting posters to an eco friendly site on a gold thread!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'd really like to know the real reason - I suspect he was ordered to do it by the central bankers ... who wanted gold crushed at the time...? The gold was auctioned and the buyers were from the China and Japan. Not only did the incompetent fool sell the gold, HE bought dollars, Yen, and Euros with it. The losses the media are talking about are only a result of the Gold price - if you consider the Yen and Dollar depreciations (offsetting the 40% of Euros) you will see he is even more of a fool. Of course HE will be enjoying his GOLD plated pension while the youth of the UK are left to pick up the pieces. Who ordered the sale? That is simple - whomever bought the Gold told his nit-twit to sell it - and they are sitting pretty right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 I reckon "fair value" for gold, which is difficult to assign but using the history, is probably around 1/3 of one month's average salary, give or take quite a bit. So we could still be somewhat below fair value at around €650 now. J Sinclair has stated that gold performs two functions acting as both a commodity metal and currency/monetary metal. Would "fair value" over longer calmer periods then only apply when gold is performing in its commodity mode and not acting as it is now a monetary metal.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahoma Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 It's getting out of control over there. :lol: Not just that - I've been a regular HPCer for over 2 years now. Looking at the names of 128 members logged in, I recognise about 10 of them, barely any old timers now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenbee Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 What are peoples thoughts on pre 1947 50% Silver Bullion, shillings, sixpences, crowns etc It really seems the cheapest way to buy silver bullion in the uk as you can always get it for spot or just under. There is also no chance of picking up some fake chinese bar of silver as its all easily recognisible english coinage. No VAT like britannias. eagles, maples etc. Was wondering on what a refiner would give you for it. What are the costs to them to remove the 50% that isnt silver. I've been buying pre 1920 silver coins for the higher silver content. I do not intend to refine it or sell it. I am preparing for when we go back on the gold standard and silver will be for everyday use. Gold will be far to valuable to walk down the road with. kb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinecu Posted March 5, 2008 Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Hi What a 24hrs in silver! Very interesting to see Sooo much commentary form you all on here. I've been swapping some rudimetary comments here for a few weeks, but like many others feel my knowledge is also reasonably rudimentary when compared with some of the levels of analysis on GEI. However, as someone who's been doing a lot of reading for the last 3 months I get the jist of lost of the macro (and micro) issues seemingly at play in gold and silver right now. I've had a degree of success with spreadbetting silver and gold futures in the last 2 months and had built a significantly leveraged position by yesterday afternoon before silver tanked yesterday pm (GMT). Due to my level of leverage the tanking made me very nervous (as Jim Rogers says "you don't want to be that man". Thankfully I was able to keep my positions open until the price rebound THIS pm to around $20.20 and then closed half my positions to minimise risk (and avoid the next haart attack!) in the belief we were seeing a "see-sawing" downwards correction; only for the price to then motor onwards to the $20.89! I've now had a chance to try and digest the masses of info on this post from the last 48 hours. Question is how real do people here believe any "commercial signal failure" to be and have I sold out too much of my position too soon? Will there be pullbacks to in the very short term to re-enter...? Also, any likemind spreadbetters out there feel free to PM me to swap thoughts, share concerns...! Opinions greatly appreciated. Sounds like you've really been through it Buy physical and relax more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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