drbubb

Zipangu (Japan) "The Land of Gold": http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponia45/en/feature/feature02.html “Zipangu” was actually a land of silver, not gold! In 1397, the Muromachi Shogun Ashikaga Yoshimitsu had the Temple of the Golden Pavilion constructed in the Japanese capital, Kyoto. Much of the three-story pavilion was covered in glittering gold leaf, making it not just a gorgeously decorated Buddhist building, but also a symbol of Japan as a land of gold. . . By the time the Portuguese arrived in Japan in the mid-1500s, there was very little gold left in the Oshu region. On the other hand, Japan had by then become one of the world’s top producers of silver, much of it from mines at Iwami Ginzan and Ikuno Ginzan. Some reports ranked Japanese silver production at one-third of global totals. The Japanese archipelago became known as the Islas Platareas (Islands of Silver), and actually, Japan used some of that silver to buy large quantities of gold from Ming China! The Portuguese and others must have asked themselves whatever happened to all that gold in “Zipangu.”

Is this guy a nutcase too... for talking about Gold reserves of 2mn or 2.5mn MT's? Think about all the Chinese Tea, Chinese Silks, Chinese porcelain, and spices too that showed up in Europe and America. What did the West use to pay for it? It wasn't all opium. There must have been a steady flow of Gold and Silver : bars and coin to China.

Bump. Any idea on what on Ray Dalio sees for 2012?

The New Year is starting well for holders of Precious Metals Gold : $1586.60 +$19.20 Silver : $28.39 + $0.53 .. Gold is back above the 252d-MA (near $1,575) suggesting the action at year-end was a false break. I have circled in red two similar looking patterns in prices. If the historical pattern continues to trace out, then Gold is headed higher in 2012.

Yeah, but they might have a chance to get a mortgage, if their combined incomes are high enough. The bank will probably just ignore the risk that one of them could lose their job. I used to find ir ridiculous that banks were relunctant to give me mortgage loans in this low interest rate environment, even though I would point out: + I don't have a job to lose, so you can take that risk "off the table" + I have 30-40 years worth of decent job's income invested in stocks and liquid assets, an no other debt + I can pay off the mortgage anytime I like When I then said, I am happy to take a loan for just 50-60%, since "I am not sure it is prudent to borrow more, and I want the bank to be totally comfortable lending to me." Then they would usually come back an offer a loan of 70%. It's a funny world !

Indeed. They should be glad that they are not being: + Shipped out to the colonies + Forced "into service" as domestic servants + Made to fight wars Instead, the dependent folks are totally passive, and expect to be coddled to in every way, while being able to live where they choose at State expense. It is disgusting. If I was in such a position, I would be using my brain to find a place to live somewhere cheap, so I could save some money to start a business, or get access to better education and opportunities. In fact, I have been without a salary now for about 12 years. I never thought of taking help from the state, though I may have been entitled. And instead, have built an "interesting" amount of wealth in that time, and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, helping to support the sort of people who do nothing at all for anyone else, but just serve as a tax burden. The whining poor will get no sympathy from me, if they cannot make ends meet in an expensive city like London, and refuse to consider alternatives. As an old friend use to say: "We've carried them long enough." The middle class deserve not to be robbed by the spongers.

PRAYTELL: What is wrong with that ?? (Don't you hate those unintelligent headlines ?) Guardian: Housing benefit cuts will put 800,000 homes out of reach, according to study "A further 800,000 homes will be put out of reach of people on housing benefit because of government welfare cuts – leaving low income families the choice of cutting spending on food to pay the rent or moving out. The Chartered Institute of Housing has found there will be thousands more claimants than properties that are affordable on benefits alone, raising the possibility that the poor will migrate to "benefit ghettoes" in seaside towns or the north of England" /see: === === Result: More flats available for those who apy their own way, with lower rents and and lower home prices. Just what the Dr ordered !

You need not believe anything that David Wilcock says, and then you would still be left with the strong possibility that there is far more Gold than the mainstream estimate of 160,000 MT. Here's another source for a much higher estimate: xx

INSIDERS BIG BUYERS of property stocks - says Robert Halili In 2011, a whopping 44 co's recorded 11,015 purchases worth HK$19.3 billion - Sectors with the heaviest price support were property, industrials, consumer goods, and retail. Directors of property stock led the way, with 7,485 transactions worth HK$14.1 billion, featuring three big co's: + Henderson Land (HK-12) ... update + Cheung Kong (HK-01) ... update + Sun Hung Kai Properties (HK-16) ... update Only 86 of the 444 co's showed a prices increase from the level of director buys. 295 co's showed a decrease. Yet that can be explained by a fall in the Hang Seng index over the course of the year. + Hang Seng Index (HSI) ... update As a Bellwether, I will be watching Hang Lung Properties (HK-101) ... update For HK-101, there seems to be support just below HK$20, at about the HK$19 level.

Yeah, and that might offer a decent basis for some trading around a core position. (For example, by trading when Gold is at one side or the other of a channel, but keeping in mind that a major breakout may be most likely on the upside of the channel, if we move into Global hyperinflation. I also think you need to look at Gold in other currencies. Here's Gold-in-Sterling (using FXB) Here's Gold-in-Euros (using FXE) Here's Gold-in-Yen (using FXY) The most likely further falls look to be: Gold-in-Euros, and Gold-in-FXF Here's Gold-in-Swiss Franc (using FXF)

Thanks for the questions See my comments within the quotes, after the questions

Yes. They are what they are - a form of money, and will remain so, I reckon, even if we have deflation or hyperinflation. Why not assume that Hyperinfation can be prevented? Anything can happen. (Including natural disasters, destroying demand, and/or a currency backed by other commodities along with gold, or besides Gold.) So hyperinflation is not guaranteed. As I have said elsewhere, there may be far more gold than many think - And if it gets sold or used in some way, it could be a game-changer. Also, my intuition somehow tells me (don't laugh please!) than Gold bulls are susceptible to manipulation by people who may be holding onto some of those vast "secret" Gold reserve. (I have had this information from a source, which is not David Wilcock, months ago. It may be misinformation, but it has been fascinating to see this strange tale being developed by Wilcock into such a bizarre and fascinating story AFTER I started worrying about the amount of Gold in the world.)

We've been over this ground (trading versus Buy&Hold) loads of times. Sadly, I now see B&H folk who are underwater on the average price of their holdings of Silver, and even on gold. If you think "that is fine, because they can hold it for the long term", then I really have nothing to say, since you will probably be right in the long term. But you know what Keynes said about the long term...

Winners and Losers in 2011 Some famous folk got it wrong in 2011 Of course, there's John Paulsen... and many other Gold bugs. Here's a forecast from a guy I still respect greatly. This one looks a tad underwater at year end, but in fact was well timed. Marc Faber says QE3, More Inflation Coming and Advises Buying Gold Now (originally aired 07/15/11) Faber: Ben Bernanke doesn’t understand international economics MP3 : http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2011-1223-1.mp3 Dr. Marc Faber of the Gloom, Boom & Doom Report joins Jim Puplava on Financial Sense Newshour in a wide-ranging interview to discuss Ben Bernanke, QE3, inflation, gold and much more. On 07/15/11, GLD closed at: $155.20 , and Gold (10.31x GLD): $1,600 The subsequent parabolic move was to GLD-$184.59 on 8/22, and it only took a few weeks. So I have to regard Faber as a Winning forecaster for Gold in 2012.

LOL. I don't think that one has impacted the market. At least not yet. The fringe community interested in Wilcock, doesn't (yet) much overlap with the Gold Bug community, except a bit on GEI. That may change as the new year draws on. Meantime, I have turned bullish (on Gold and Silver) as the world seems to have turned Bearish. But I remain cautious enough to want to "play it with options", keeping some big powder dry. === === Looking back at 2011. Only one of FBB's forecasters mentioned "Earth Changes" in his forecast for 2011. How did CBS News sum up the year just gone?: "World rings in 2012 and bids adieu to a tough year CBS News - ‎19 minutes ago‎ (AP) PARIS - With glittering fireworks and celebrations from New Zealand to Times Square, the world eagerly welcomed a new year and hope for a better future Saturday, saying goodbye to a year of hurricanes, tsunamis and economic turmoil that many would rather forget." /see: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501714_162-57350627/world-rings-in-2012-and-bids-adieu-to-a-tough-year/ Perhaps one could take my "crazy forecast" for 2012 at least a little bit seriously. Even so, as I said on the Happy New Year thread: "I certainly hope my more dire forecasts for 2012 are wrong. And I would rather be teased for being silly than be right. But I could not allow the year to start without some sort of warnings of some events which I truly believe can happen. "

I dont see explanations, only excuses for Gold's poor performance. Meantime, I am happy to buy Gold calls with Gold below $1600, leaving some powder dry for lower prices, in case we see them. The permabulls have been shouting "buying opportunity" all the way down, with me asking: "Why what?" while I have shown how you can be patient and keep your powder dry, and generate cash from trading.

I don't think the Chinese sent "their best railroad builders" - since they weren't yet building rail networks across China. But they did send over effective labor. They obviously had loads of people seeking jobs - and they still do. The Coolie work teams were mostly under the management of the Chinese, who were seen to handle them more effectively than foreigners who did not speak their language. I don't know where Wilcock got some of his strange ideas about the quality of the Chinesework force, but he may be right about their being more of a story here than simply slave labor. Perhaps you should look into it a bit more closely.

Chris, I agree that it is very possible. But not at all guaranteed. And we should stay alert to contrary evidence IMHO

I haven't seen this Silver chart anywhere else yet This week's low at $26.15 could be important. We have seen Lows at almost the exact same level twice before How much Silver? Could it be this low? : Lowest ratio to demand "since the 1300's" (?!)

How can you be so sure? If there is 10X as much Gold on the planet as people had thought, and if a "currency reboot" is done with 2012, removing the Fed and its money-printing, then the future Gold price will suddenly look very different. If you say these things are "impossible" then you may be denying some evidence which is beginning to show up - with more almost every day. I have put up with ENORMOUS resistance here and elsewhere in trying to get a more open minded message out. I should have thought that at least a few people would have now seen some value in examining other ideas rather than following the lemmings repeating mindless mantras about $2500 Gold coming within weeks or months.

Good find. The Chinese holding onto their silver fits in with the notion of a currency reboot

Right. For those who "don't want to give up physical Silver", then buying some long dated Puts, perhaps by financing them by selling some Calls would have made good sense. Sure it's hindsight - but it is worth remembering too.

He must be hearing something similar from another source (confirming parts of this very bizarre story.) I have had that experience too. In fact, some of this detail (very old people, massive amounts of gold) was given to me more than one year ago. I have been amazed how DW adds more and more detail to the picture. I think something which may be coming which will add some confirmation is mass arrests, and a currency reboot. I have heard this may come very soon. I am slightly disappointed that so few here have been plugged into this story as it has rolled out. Too many here just repeat the nonsense that comes from the Gold-ramping sites, and have had trouble seeing the bigger picture. Have those constantly spewing out targets like $2500 Gold or $100 Silver really served anyone, apart from their own interests?

If it happened, I suppose someone at Wells Fargo would have known

If he looked like a Bankster would he be more convincing to you? GOLD's FALSE BREAK? GLD / Gold is now back UP ... to the 252d-MA (at $1572 per ounce) Threatening (or maybe promising) to turn the whole move down into a False Break. I now suspect that some stops were hit causing that break, and maybe it was due to the Gold & Silver holdings of MFG customers being sold off* === === *Trustee to Seize and Liquidate Even the Stored Customer Gold and Silver Bullion From MF Global The trustee overseeing the liquidation of the failed brokerage has proposed dumping all remaining customer assets—gold, silver, cash, options, futures and commodities—into a single pool that would pay customers only 72% of the value of their holdings. In other words,while traders already may have paid the full price for delivery of specific bars of gold or silver—and hold "warehouse receipts" to prove it—they'll have to forfeit 28% of the value. That has investors fuming. "Warehouse receipts, like gold bars, are our property, 100%," contends John Roe, a partner in BTR Trading, a Chicago futures-trading firm. He personally lost several hundred thousand dollars in investments via MF Global; his clients lost even more. "We are a unique class, and instead, the trustee is doing a radical redistribution of property," he says. /more: http://www.endoftheworldasyouknowit.com/showthread.php?16177-Trustee-to-Seize-and-Liquidate-Even-the-Stored-Customer-Gold-Silver-Bullion-From-MFG&p=19013