John Doe

Yet... it started from a very low base (evidenced by prices 10 years back, when the Economist suggested they were already way over priced), it is still nowhere near enough to make house affordable, the number of new homes being built has actually fallen much further over the last few years, and our population growth continues relentlessly. A huge release of land, and a massive house-building program, might just help this country out more than any other measure our PTB could introduce. Why they don't just build a new (well planned, well thought out) modern, pedestrian friendly city or two, I just cannot understand.

PS Here's Spain http://www.globalpro...n/Price-History Note their MASSIVE over supply (estimated 20 years worth!!) and also how their rents collapsed. (http://www.google.co...iw=1236&bih=581) if you cant acces the main site, go in from the second graph at the top on this page (lets you use once without registering) Here's Eire http://www.globalpro...d/Price-History Same story.

Hi fexx, long time no see? Yes, that old chesnut. Japan is a red herring (as has been pointed out before) as it has a totally different demographic (and non comparative culture), and we have a massively increasing population, they don't. Are you not also assuming that supply in the UK 10 years ago was adequate? I'd argue it was not. Now look at how single person households have increased in the UK compared. Then all the illegal immigrants (no numbers available, could be huge). Now look at number of rooms per dwelling in the new housing compared to previous (demolished housing and net number of bedrooms etc etc). Then look at how the number of older people here has increased and the number of children under 15 has devreased. i.e more houses needed NET, even in a static population, as children don't have their own houses, older people do. Do you have these numbers to hand? They are all here somewhere (or on HPC). And then consider how in London alone, for the last few years ~half of all new buildings were bought by foreign buyers as investments and safe havens. How many of those lie empty most of the year? Note also, I never said the uk had an undersupply, I stated clearly it was a dismal supply and that the others had a huge over supply. A huge oversupply here (especially in the areas people wanted housing, as opposed to where they didn't) would have brought prices down more, and quicker (and we'd all be the better for that). Just have a look at the previous figures we have put in this thread over the years if you want the actual numbers. So, all that aside, my point was (and always was) that the oversupply in those countries was far greater than in ours and that this was part of the explanation why our prices didn't fall as far as fast. Or are you saying this was not the case? To be clear, are you saying that the US, Spain and Eire did not have a huge oversupply compared to the UK? And Van, slow down there. Your observation about population is correct, but the main point is not debunked by using red herring (HPC) arguments and a couple of statistics in isolation.

Prior to the mass globalisation experiment (early 70’s?), more than a million unemployed in this country was unacceptable and had governments being thrown out. (That's back when the real figure was 1 million, not the fiddled equivalent today). It's also the case that the traditional link between increasing productivity equalling increasing wages was broken sometime in the early 90's. Productivity increased massively over the 90's 00's, yet wages hardly even kept up with inflation. However the shortfall was masked by cheap credit, (creditor nations flooding us with cheap credit and goods, masking inflation figures also, another bad effect of globalisation**) and also by government top-up schemes like tax credits etc. Indeed, it was this extra credit (practically limitless cheap loans being handed out to anyone) that resulted in our house price bubble (years of double digit HPI with no corresponding wage increase) and brought us to the situation we have today. Our governments just sat by and watched. They have a lot to answer for. As such, the "culture of entitlement" has been driven by our pathetic governments rather than the man on the street that continued to go to work each day, becoming ever more produtive while his wages failed to keep up. How we get back to the old relationship, I do not know. I think it's possible, but it's going to take a long time (and possibly some fairly radical actions). ** (I realise that 100's of millions have been taken out of poverty too, but I'm not convinced that this couldn't have happened by those countries building up their internal markets more).

Sadly, that's probably right. However, I still hope to one day see someone have the balls to say enough is enough. A living wage would enable a cut in these crazy top-up benefits (which are effectively state subsidies for companies) we have. Although this would possibly cause an initial rise in unemployment, those on the living wage would also have more disposal income, thereby creating new jobs with their spending. Where those jobs would be is another story. Protectionism has always been a dirty word, and while I'm actually quite for a free trade type world, I think that also means allowing currencies to find their own level, basically keeping the playing field more fair (i.e china allowing it’s currency to free float etc). Outsourcing can only go on at the current rate as long as the wages in China etc are super low. The rate of wage inflation there is astounding, so much so that comparative wage (taking account of cost of living, west vs east) point is fast approaching. Coupled with transport costs for imported goods, this should limit the effect, possibly even within 5 years. I read recently about a model globalisation situation where a country that can produce say efficient (cheap) cars, can only sell them to another country in exchnage for something that country produes efficiently, say computers for example. Well, it's a nice thought (although something has to be done, or we are all (well at least the bottom third) really screwed). I think it was here in a thread on HPC regarding free trade/protectionism etc....(starts slow) http://www.housepric...howtopic=185852 As for the benefits trap, the IDS single credit looks interesting (at first glance). Devil will be in the detail.

Constant news of doom, gloom, crisis, etc etc has the country so scared that they are (and for several years now have been) taking wage cuts in an otherwise inflationary environment. Coincidently, (perhaps ), big company profits are doing just fine and dandy. Hmmmmm. I have a feeling wages might eventually rise, when people stop shitting themselves about losing their jobs and decide to stand up for a wage that will allow them to live without having to rely on government top-ups and pay-day loans.

To an extent yes, yet cheap money in US, Spain and Eire didn't help them. The UK had a massively growing population and a dismal amount of new housing built. Each of the others had a massive building boom. I've never said it was the only reason, but for many years I was called every name under the sun for even suggesting such an effect.

Wonder if people are still trying to make out that supply didn't affect the UK market compared to all the others that had big price falls? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20677515

same old same old.

Well it might be legal, but the recent Gov naming and shaming of corporations (and individuals) using immoral tax avoidance tricks is looking like it's yielding some results after all. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20573208 Well I'll be

Different name, same attitude, same skimming off the top, member of the same "club" etc etc

So what do you think about his erm.. "solution"? (''I'll put it back to full size text, in case it gets skipped over ) Should we "pay attention to " this? He's a bankster FFS, he's gonna hate anyone that doesn't let them get all their own way, all the time.

Same as, (although they're good fun for a few days). However, it'd be a nughtmare living next to my father!

Nationwide out, still down slightly. http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-20509192 Wow, what a great idea (as long as you all get on that is) you guys will be like the Waltons

Yep, come the revolution

Because they don't tend to do that here. Boomers are quite happy to sit in their big houses, with their big gold plated pensions. (Plus they think London is the greatest place in the world)

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-20510692 But then have a look all at the highest rated comments. Nimby extremists are out in force. They really don't get it, the ignorance is shocking . Most of these people will probably never sell their beloved houses, so any fall in price that might occur with a massive building programme wouldn't actually affect them. Indeed, it would let their children afford a house without having to tap the bank of mum and dad (i.e them). Then, for those wanting to move up the ladder, their next house would be cheaper. It would free up money for the real economy, instead of ever increasing interest (+ skim) payments to the banksters as we've seen over the last decade or so as prices rose.

What, you mean it didn't happen? Have to be honest, think it's going to be a grim 2 or 3 months here too (not quite as bad as an apocalypse mind). But then think we might get (dare I say it) a bit of a spring bounce (well, when I say bounce, I actually mean more of a stop to the slow gring down) with the fiscal cliff sorted by then, the US homes market seemingly turning around and the FLS etc kicking in here properly.

Yep, that's the plan and our local, excellent, schools are free here (well included in your tax).

I'm hoping it'll be pretty great while I still have a salary Mortgage free is where I wannba be!

Yeah, except a hell of a lot more rights than those renting with the stupid AST crap we have in the UK. However, the general idea is to pay off the mortgage before you retire .

Home ownership lowest for 24 years! http://uk.finance.ya...-211044044.html Another point often missed about owning your own home. Everyone else doesn't have to pay for you, to pay a landlord, for the rest of your life from retirement to death (assuming you haven't got a half decent pension either).

No great surprise, as all over the press the government was saying how mortgage rates were about to drop (and drop they have) . Obviously those looking to get a mortgage just waited. The quarterly figure were better (apparently). http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-20297315

Nice post GK (very nice). I haven't checked the data myself, but from your post it looks like a great example of the AM-GM inequality. (i.e. AM always bigger than, or equal to, the GM). Aint that the truth .

Here you go. http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-20268679 As I've always said, never underestimate the lengths that the PTB will go to, in order to preserve "the system".