DISCERNING others : new topics (KO'Keefe v Max, Zen G)

[drbubb]

DISCERNING Others : new topics (Ken O'Keefe v Max Igan, Zen Gardner, etc)

 

 

A NEW THREAD. is it Time ?

==============

 

I have now change the Title, of this thread slightly, and set up a New short Link, to take you here

 

> http://tinyurl.com/Discerning1

 

Given these new controversies:

 

+ Max Igan vs. Ken O'Keefe

+ Randy Maugens vs. Zen Gardner

+ and others, which we may want to "Discern" in the future

 

Is it time for a new thread, to look into these non-RVD, Non-DS matters?

 

(BTW, I think there may, at this stage, not be much new to learn and discern from RVD, and DS.

I think we may all understand the issues presented by these guys pretty well, and we may be tired of rehashing the old issues.)

 

Ron's recent attack on Acore, calling us Liars, suggests that it may be time to dial down, the time sent listening to Ron

8-28-16 – ACORE, THE FRIAR, AND THEIR LIES

 

Does anyone really disagree with this statement?:

"If you borrow Money from a bank, and do not repay it, Why should the bank not be allowed to take back the asset you bought with their money?"

> If you want to read/post more about RVD, please go here: http://tinyurl.com/DISCERNING1

 

 

LINK to here: http://tinyurl.com/DISCERNING2

[drbubb]

Max Igan vs. Ken O'Keefe

 

I wish I had shared this one without the video so I'll share it again alone here

http://www.thecrowhouse.com/kenokeefe.html

 

Max Igan's side of the story

EXCERPT

I don't respond well to threats...

Having spoken with the entire World Citizen team and also with Ken, there was no internal subversion that I can identify. The problem that I can see is that, after all his talk of people deserving to be paid for their work, and despite the fund raiser reaching virtually double its target (not to mention the great many undeclared donations picked up on his speaking tour), Ken quibbled over every cent paid out, leaving the entire team out of pocket, even several of them with outstanding credit card debts. They then unanimously decided to walk away from him at which point they all approached me with their concerns. I confronted Ken and basically let him know how pissed off I would be if this turned out to be a scam and after some heated words at Free Your Mind in Phili, I convinced the entire team to back down, wait it out and see what Ken had to offer. His response some weeks later was to accuse me of having 'initiated a mutiny' and send me a 30 page 'subversion report' he demanded I read and get back to him within 24 hours, even though I was on a tour of speaking dates. Obviously I didn't bother...

. . .

From what I can see, the only effect the team walking out on him really had was the failure in completing a website, which can easily be accomplished by someone else. Ken hadn't even provided the web designer with all the information he needed to build the site...

. . .

Irrespective of any claims of 'subversion' however, Ken's fund raiser was highly successful. He controls all the funds, he now has all he needs to complete the mission, and there is absolutely nothing at all standing in his way. All that remains now is for him to deliver on his promise of producing "a legally sound social contract, a lawful means that will prevent people from being compelled to fund war." Those were his words and that is what was expected. Ken may deny saying those words but the fact remains that he did, as the entire team can quite readily confirm...

. . .

Ken O'Keefe is a very clever and extremely charismatic man. He is a great talker and he knows how to tell people exactly what they want to hear, so who knows, maybe he will get away with it - yet again. But from my own personal experience, Ken O'Keefe is a textbook sociopath - or possibly even worse. For all his talk of being such a threat to the ruling psychopaths and putting his life on the line for humanity, he is not, he is more of an asset. In his testosterone charged public appearances he simply tells people what they want to hear and takes their anger for them like another controlled release valve. The only risk to life that Ken actually faces is possibly from one of the many people he has taken money from via fraudulent means, hollow words and empty promises.

We live and we learn, and what does't kill us makes us stronger - or so they say.

 

However the cards may now fall, I would like it a matter of public record that from this day forth I no longer trust or support Ken O'Keefe in any way, in any shape, or in any form, and I rescind any and all previous support I have ever shown for him.

 

- Excerpt from:

~ Max Igan / August 19th, 2016

 

 

This story reminds me:

I think people should be suspicious of ALL prosperity schemes, and related world citizen, and sovereign citizen ideas. In my experience, if you look closely, you will find a scam. I am not telling you that they all are that way. Maybe one will come forward which is not, But please tred acrefully, for your own sake.

 

The original dream looked like this - before it all went a-rye

 

Comments

Joshua Avila1 week ago

So 2/3rds of the video repeating things we already know and less than 10 minutes of the actual plan with no details? I expected more. Loved the speech, but expected way more details. I thought 30 minutes was too short and he still spent only less than 10 minutes on it. I can't wait to hear the full plan.

Roland1 week ago

It appears he used the last 1/3rd of the "lecture" to ask for money so he can give you his plan... It's a shame because the guy says all the right things when it comes to Israel, 9/11

Handy Andy6 days ago

he is not a multi million dollar criminal corporation like the parasites he is trying to pull down. so be patient, help where or whenever possible. some of his ideas may be more expensive in lawyers costs than what ever monies he is capable of raising. He is just one spoke in the wheel, we all must do our part. form local groups, show some initiative. when I saw Ken in Toronto after each meeting there was absolutely no one who proposed forming local defence leagues if you will to organize somewhat against this criminal group that is in power over the masses. that has to change. we must organize and not simply depend on people like Ken.

[drbubb]

Here's Crowhouse man, Max Igan, speaking at the same conference

 

Max Igan - Free Your Mind 4 Conference 2016

[drbubb]

Zen G. Affair / #1

 

 

OPEN LETTER TO MEL VE, BIGGI, AND CCN ON THE "ZEN GARDNER" AFFAIR
http://radio.offplanetmedia.net/…/digging-in-the-dirt-zen-…/

Before you and Biggi Boho continue your program of obfuscation regarding Zen Gardner, and the comments and articles, read the article below---and READ the article Postscript to understand where I, and many other are coming from.

Whether you, as CCN, are simply defending your relationship with Zen, or you actually cannot see the level of manipulation in both the actions and language of Mr. Ferguson in his attempted defense of his hidden history----know this: his failure to disclose WHO he was, and WHAT he was involved with, was a deliberate act of deception upon the very "communities of truth" he infiltrated.

At the end of the article I explain my own personal side of the issues, and WHY this affair is "triggering", and WHY media outlets like CNN, with whom I WAS affiliated, have a responsibility to step up, be forthright and honest about the entire charade that IS "Zen Gardner", and NOT pose as "impartial journalists", when the fact are so obvious.

To continue your disingenuous program of ass-covering simply demonstrates WHY "independent media" is a sham. I trust you have more integrity than this. Or...maybe not.
Digging In The Dirt: Zen Gardner, Occult Abuse, and the Art of Deflection | OffPlanet Radio
Digging In The Dirt: Zen Gardner, Occult Abuse, and the Art of Deflection by Randy Maugans | Aug 22, 2016 | Articles, News, & Blurbs | 0 comments “Even now, the illusion of control invokes the “victim” to step forward, polishing the shovel; no cognizance of the bodies left buried…in the Zen Garden.”...

RADIO.OFFPLANETMEDIA.NET

Hoping this would cool down, BUT, since my name is mentioned by this person in her video, all's fair. This is NOT a "witch trial". The better analogy would be Nuremberg.

"No victim, no crime"...That is the wordsmithing of CCN's Mel Vernay through her "student"/operative. The "crimes" of
The Children of God" have been well documented for over 30 years. The body count, much less soul count is high. At Nuremberg, the officers of the Third Reich pleaded they "just followed orders". Read ZG's articles since his "confession"---in effect, while playing victim, he says he was "just following orders".

It didn't wash in Nuremberg, but the fates here are kinder. Because the COG cult knew how to skirt jurisdictions, and maneuver legal binds, no trial will be held in a court. We held our own. The court of opinion by people all over the internet.

Were it not for the controlled mouthpiece media outlet, Conscious Consumer Network, and its small corp of female operatives under Mel V, there would have been no platform for this pedophile collaborator to air his self-serving apologia.

CCN scraped the bottom its already diminished "talent" pool to produce two of the most journalistically compromised videos ever. I approached the operators of CCN, Mel and "Biggi" 2 weeks ago about Zen Gardner. They then said they were "still waiting to hear back from Zen." On the eve of the two broadcasts posted in the article, "Biggi"'s stammering defense of Zen Gardner appeared on the front page of the Zen Gardener website----BEFORE this so-called, "impartial" interview took place.

Folks, even under the best circumstances, there is nothing journalistic about CCN and its little pack of sycophants. They received their talking points, marching orders, and full back-end coaching by Mel V on the "official position". THAT is how mainstream media rolls all day long. Except with better sets and more articulate talking heads.

I left this network over a month before the ZG debacle---quietly and amicably, but warning them weeks before that this would be a real bumpy ride. For my trouble, I was stalked online, had fellow commenters on my post harassed by Mel V---all the while Mr. "Biggi" (Small?) played good cop, praising my article and sending me faint praise. The same mindset of the police state at-large.

As for "Hope Girl" and the other little tools at CCN: you got used. You think Mel V is a journalist. I now know that CCN was funded by outsiders. I know that CCN preyed on the hosts there for money, exploited people with good intentions, and practice the worst form of hypocrisy: demonizing good while defending blatant evil. As I said, it will not go well for you

I am not allowed to use an image here and I'm not sure which one but this one above is HOPEGIRLBLOG.COM on the Zen Gardner Witch Trials

http://www.hopegirlblog.com/the-zen-gardner-witch-trials-mass-hysteria-in-the-alternative-truth-movement/

 

=

[drbubb]

Zen G. Affair / #2

 

 

MORE LIES FROM CCN'S MEL VE...THE NETWORK SWITCH UP DEBACLE
Screenshot from Mel's latest assault on "transparency".

FACTS: They are simply using the LiveStream software to stream to YouTube. A functionality that many software packages, including free/open source can do as well.

After they failed to raise the needed $10K in late 2015 for the "white label" branding on Livestream, CCN lost the professional capabilities to use Livestream services, which they had marketed to their hosts--most notably, the ability to embed Livestream from their own web pages. This effectively "broke" the Livestream experience for both viewers and hosts like myself, who had embedded the Livestream feed onto our own websites (we WERE, after all, PAYING them for "production and streaming services").

A fact, they openly HID from their mostly non-techy host "clients". The difference is that when they made that little change, they were no longer streaming ON Livestream, which cost a fair bit of change; but went to YouTube which costs NOTHING to stream from as a platform. (I know, I have the capability to live stream to YouTube myself).

This basically "orphaned" the Livestream feed, which they covered their asses on by replacing the stream embed on their (horrible, ugly, slow) website----and putting that feed behind a mandatory email sign-in screen (to harvest viewers for mailing list). It was NEVER timely explained to the hosts that this switcheroo occurred---we continued to pay despite their reduction in overhead costs. How is that not bait and switch?

When I called him out on this, Biggi, in typical double-speak, used this same lame-assed explanation offered in the post by Mel, to infer this WAS Livestream. But, go to the CCN Livestream page, and the live feed was/is dead.

Because most people are technically unsophisticated, they can be forgiven for not knowing the difference. The difference is NOT just a chat room. Hell, anyone (except maybe Biggi) can put up a Chatango chat on any website. This was a fundamental CHANGE in network infrastructure, and audience share/user experience. The paying hosts of CCN deserved a FULL, CLEAR understanding of the dynamics. Instead they got more Biggi-speak.

As a note here: One does not "install" Livestream software to YouTube. Streaming is done by using any one of MANY software packages (some of which are FREE, open source packages, which support the YouTube streaming protocols. THAT is just more gibberish techno-speak.

DO THEY FOLLOW THEIR OWN CONTRACTS?

"RESPONSIBILITY, TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY are the key factors to ensuring a happy and functional working relationship with the CCN Producers."- from the CONSCIOUS CONSUMER NETWORK (CCN) Consentual Operating Format 2016 (CON-TRACT)

Ask yourselves: WHAT part of "TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY" excludes the full disclosure of changes in the basic network platform? When the Livestream feed "broke", how many viewers were left thinking the network was "down"? How "transparent" are Mel V. and Biggi when they obfuscate, deceive, and use techno-speak to HIDE a fundamental change in their operations from their PAYING producers?

The account of the changes in CCN infrastructure were laughable when I first heard them six months ago. CCN was asked to provide TRANSPARENCY on this matter, and yet today, they STILL maintain this ludicrous explanation of HOW they switched out a PREMIUM broadcast platform for an open source, FREE platform.

In her post (screenshot below), Mel Ve names myself, Lisa Harrison, andDani Arnold-McKenny as sources of this "mis-information". I, Randy Maugans, am the source of this above information, and I stand by my statements. This was the moment when I first realized that Mel and Biggi had a twisted sense of ACCOUNTABILITY. If anyone wishes to challenge these statements, do so in writing to me. I DO NOT "work" with Lisa Harrison and Dani Arnold-McKenny. We are independent media producers who have a friendly relationship. No collusion, con-spiracy, or other vague terms like "gangstalking", "gas lighting" apply. I take responsibility for my statements in all matters

If you buy into the credo of CCN that they wish to make the world a better place---maybe they should start by TELLING THE TRUTH to their own producers. If they lied to us, can you trust them with your media?

The screenshot says :

Hello friends....there is a lot of confusion raining

down (no surprises there) and it is making its way into

online allegations regarding the CCN network and the

setup. Randy, Dani and Lisa have now commented on Face

book that we are no longer using LIVESTREAM and we are

now only a YouTube Channel. I just want to inform you

all that this is categorically incorrect. The Youtube

LIVE function works by installing the LIVE STREAM

application into one's own YOU TUBE channel. We still use

LIVESTREAM STUDIO SOFTWARE and pay a LIVESTREAM for this

usage. The decision to use the YOU TUBE template for our

LIVE broadcast screen, is due to the excellent features

of the YOUTUBE chat function. The YOUTUBE LIVE function

is like a shop windown, that is being powered from behind

by LIVESTRAM software. For those who do not know the

technical set up pf our network, they will alwlays only

get what they can see, without knowing how our

infrastructure works from our side...Sad to see people

once again using false information in an attempt to

smear people in order to deflect blame and guilt.

=

> originally here: http://www.greenenergyinvestors.com/index.php?showtopic=20561&page=75

[drbubb]

Randy Maugens vs Zen Gardner?

 

Not sure what is really going on - but this part JUMPED OUT at me:

 

"Read ZG's articles since his "confession"---in effect, while playing victim, he says he was "just following orders".

It didn't wash in Nuremberg, but the fates here are kinder. Because the COG cult knew how to skirt jurisdictions, and maneuver legal binds, no trial will be held in a court. We held our own. The court of opinion by people all over the internet.

Were it not for the controlled mouthpiece media outlet, Conscious Consumer Network, and its small corp of female operatives under Mel V, there would have been no platform for this pedophile collaborator to air his self-serving apologia.

I will look for Zen's apology, to try to understand better:

(I may post it here)

I know that Randy has come out with some good material, like this:

Rich Dolan Interview: "The Shock of Disclosure", by Randy Maugans

But I have also seen him get into quarrels before, without knowing the background of those past spats

To be honest, I don't like the idea of Maugens and Zen Gardner having a quarrel, since I have appreciated the contributions of both of them

[Softlywinged]

Max's final words on O'Keefe :

My Final word on the Ken O'Keefe expose and the accusations I am receiving from some people due to the stance I have taken

The bottom line is that Ken has not been truthful or honorable in his actions. And over the years he has quietly aligned himself with all the most prominent names he could.. Vetrans Today, all the big alt media people, significant authors, even PressTV and RT.. and with WC, he was setting up a pyramid scheme that would have potentially funneled millions into his own account, and by the time the fraud was discovered he would be safe in Dominica and everyone who had ever associated with him, or supported him, would have been painted with the same brush - guilt by association.

I have always liked Ken. He was my friend and I have vehemently defended him to others, but this scam had the potential to bring down and discredit the entire independent media and potentially make Ken millions in the process. At that point the Lame Stream Media would have a field day with it, and that would completely end the resistance. So you can think and say whatever you like about me, and Ken can weave and twist the saga any way he sees fit. But that is what I saw and so I called it. If Im wrong, then no doubt Ken will produce his lawful document for you any day now, because he has all the funds he needs to do it - and I will happily eat humble pie..

Ken has now said he will address these issues within days. So let's all now see what happens.

[drbubb]

From the "good old days" of Gaza challenges, when they were working together

 

Freestyle Gaza Rooftop - Max Igan & Ken O Keefe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKKWU3kGdAo

 

"Max has put it on the line... he has been antagonizing to TPTB, and empowering to the people"

 

Both speak very well, with great articulation. But Max has a million dollar voice IMHO (as well as being a good writer.)

 

Here's was another old attempt to look at the Gaza issue

 

Robert Kennedy and the Moral Courage we Need in Gaza

 

(Whose voice is that, some may ask? if you really want to know, send me a PM.)

 

"What is needed is a major figure from inside Washington who will speak out against wars of genocide...
It will not be easy to find someone among psychopathic zombies, who are our politicians today,
someone with the right courage and moral sensitivity to take on this heroic task."

And towards the end:

"Now is the time to back only those polticians who will put American interests first... ahead of those of Israel."

RFK took on LBJ, the giant "evil politician" of that time. In some sense, he won, since he got Johnson to drop out.

But then, RFK got shot, on the evening of his breakthrough victory in California.

 

The Full PBS documentary on RFK's Courage. : and RFK's Assassination

 

(My assessment, is we are back at another historic moment of opportunity.)

 

In the 2016 election A flawed hero, Donald Trump, has stepped forward and dared to take on the selected candidate, Hillary, the darling of the Illuminati.

 

Like LBJ, it feels like she knows the public is about to spit her out. And I really wonder if she will make it as a active candidate into Nov 8th.

My great fear is that her donors and supporter will decided that they need to eliminate the opposition before the election.

[drbubb]

I am posting this here -

Because I think Trump's message is now starting to sound like RFK's !

 

Trump's on Message - getting stronger and stronger.

 

The crowd are getting bigger, and going wild. He's ahead now in many National Polls

 

Hannity 8/30/16 - Donald Trump meeting Mexico's President tomorrow, Trump Everett WA Rally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ci8Lff-0NM

 

THE STRONGEST AREA = From about 34 minutes;
"People don't talk about the inner cities. But I am talking about the inner cities.
We will rebuld our inner cities, and provide safety and peace to all our citizens.
... One area where honesty is badly needed is on the subject of economic and living conditions of
Afro-American citizens in the United States."
(This got an amazing cheer and applause!! Trump strikes a real key area here.)
==================================

 

Hannity said, just before Trump came on...

 

Hillary is busy making "extreme preparations" for the debate -

She and her team are studying all the GOP debates, looking for times when other candidates imbalanced Trump and got under his skin.

 

She has so many weak points, and so few points where she can beat him, that she has to focus on getting him off balanced,

and making him look thin-skinned.

 

Very possibly by the time the debates come, he will be so far ahead, and he can stand and laugh at her attacks

 

(Presumably, HRC is a bunker some place hiding from the press, and avoiding showing her sick carcass to the public)

 

I wonder if others are enjoying the unraveling of this monster's reputation as much as I am - But It is years late

 

 

One gets the sense that Trump, like RFK before him, has matured and grown during this campaign.

 

It must be scaring the h3ll out of the cabal, since they can see their grip slipping away

[drbubb]

THE HEROES JOURNEY - politicians can take it too !

 

RFK made a journey, as described in the PBS Documentary;

Robert Kennedy Biography

At 1:14 Hours - RFK moves beyond the guarded politics of his brother, JFK
At 1;16 Hours - RFK begins to face up to the tragedy of Vietnam, agonizing over his decision
At 1;18 Hours - "Do we have the right to displace people in Vietnam?" asks RFK. he grows!
At 1:20 Hours - "He becomes more and more thoughtful... as he discards (the old) certainties", he fully awakened
At 1:21+ Hrs. - "He changed (and gained empathy) from the pain he felt at his brother's death"
At 1:24 Hours - If I run against Johnson, then I am running against my brother's judgment
At 1:25 Hours - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in times of moral crisis, preserve their neutrality"
At 1:27 Hours - He comes to regret his decision to avoid opposing LBJ "under any foreseeable circumstances"

At 1:24 Hours - If I run against Johnson, then I am running against my brother's judgment
At 1:25 Hours - "The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in times of moral crisis, preserve their neutrality"
At 1:27 Hours - He comes to regret his decision to avoid opposing LBJ "under any foreseeable circumstances"
At 1:29 Hours - He agonizes, then announces that he will Run against LBJ (and against the War in Vietnam)
At 1:30 Hours - THE CAMPAIGN TRAIN: He storms through 16 states in 15 days, with growing audiences supporting him
============= > Kathleen Kennedy: "My father was mobbed wherever he went" / He ran to save the country
== > Where he appeared, it was like the roof was blown off, with people hanging from the ceiling

THIS IS WHERE TRUMP IS NOW - we are back again, at the same crucial moment in our history

Just look at the Trump rallies. Look at the crowd reactions.

"This is Kansas, this is Kansas! He's going the whole f--king way!"
Then, a surprise, LBJ announces he will not run !

(then, disaster #1. Martin Luther King is murdered - and RFK gives a speech from the heart, sharing the grief.)

 

A big difference: RFK especially inspired blacks and Hispanic Americans ("these are my people")

Trump does not (yet) generate the same enthusiasm there. Instead, it is among White Americans where he inspires the enthusiasm.

And now he is working / and learning / so he can extend his appeal to other groups.

 

Abour RFK, they said in the documentary: "He liberated himself"

- Will Trump also achieve a liberation from the corner that the corporate-controlled media has tried to paint him into.

[drbubb]

THE LEADER REGRETS

 

David Icke’s Friend, Zen Gardner, Confesses He Ran Pedophile Cult

 

Posted on August 12, 2016 by Baxter Dmitry

Zen Gardner, conspiracy guru and trusted friend of David Icke, has been forced to come clean about his years as a leader of notorious pedophile cult, The Children of God, also known as The Family and The Family International.

 

The cult has been forced to change its name and flee one South American country after another in recent years after revelations about their sick child abuse practises and doctrine have come to light.

Currently using the name Don Ferguson, but well known on the internet as Zen Gardner, the high profile conspiracy guru joined the The Family at the age of 22 to escape an abusive childhood. He remained in the cult for 27 years, working his way up the ranks to become a leader, teacher and media chief in charge of “image management.”

An image manager’s job in a pedophile cult would likely involve painting a rosy picture of the cult as wholesome to the outside world.

However Zen Gardner, in a blog post titled My Missing Years, is now attempting to play the victim and blame the cult leadership – of which he was a part – for the cult’s depravities. He is attempting to downplay his personal involvement by blaming the same cult whose image it was once his job to massage.

. . .

 

The Children of God were founded by David “Moses” Berg (known as “Dad” to cult members) who led the group until his death in 1994. The son of American pentecostal evangelists, Berg was a nymphomaniac who had been sexually abused as a child.

He preached the virtues of free-for-all sex, including pedophilia and incest, under the guise of religious observance, and advocated sex with minors. His only caveat was the assertion “as long as it is done in love.”

==

> http://yournewswire.com/david-ickes-friend-zen-gardner-confesses-he-ran-pedophile-cult/

=== ===

 

ZEN GARDNER talks to MEL VE: Addressing the FALLOUT.

Published on Aug 30, 2016

Zen Gardner takes some time to share his perspective following on from the massive outcry in the Alternative Media following Zen's disclosure of him being involved in a Christian Cult known as the Children of God.

 

"There was Free Love... and some experimental things"

Wild accusations? "The alternative media is buying anything... the internet is loaded"

"I'm going to LAY BACK, go OFF THE INTERNET... Who wants to do swimming in a pool with piranas?"

 

Mel V : "No victim, no crime"

Zen G : "There were victims... This is horrible what happens to children."

"Some people thanked me, for letting this come out... This was healing for me."

"We are trying to get back... We are trying to get home,"

[drbubb]

The Exposers speak out

 

Digging In The Dirt: Zen Gardner, Occult Abuse, and the Art of Deflection

by Randy Maugans | Aug 22, 2016 |

 

EXCERPTS

“Even now, the illusion of control invokes the “victim” to step forward, polishing the shovel; no cognizance of the bodies left buried…in the Zen Garden.”

 

After his (self) exposure as a member of the sex cult, Children of God (The Family), popular internet figure, Zen Gardner, a/k/a, Donald Ferguson, seems dismayed at the blow back from (some of) the alternative media communities. His latest article, “Sifting Through the Debris”, once again contrasts his stark confessions with a healthy dose of desperate victim status. This is the modus operandi of a sociopath, albeit, a “love and lighter” sociopath.

. . .

he writes:

“Knowing that the external triggers are what is unresolved in ourselves is essential to personal growth and realization. This may sound a bit dispassionate or disconnected to those who want me to grovel in remorse and guilt and shame, but I’ve worked past all that. What’s left is your reaction. And some people have some serious work to do, as do I.“

 

This indictment of the entire “truth” community (or the part that saw through his self-serving bullshit from the start of this affair) Is a classic deflection technique that places the perp on par with “other folks”, notably those who did not give him a pass so easily. “Unresolved issues in ourselves…”??? Deflection, again, as Zen has had lots of time to allegedly deal with HIS issues, apparently. Having spent years on the web masquerading as a expounder of “truth” and “light” while concealing some very important aspects of his own background. A background that informs his own spiritual development.

. . .

...The more balanced in the “alt” media were incensed that this media figure operated under guise of an enlightened master, while concealing his own complicity in a child sex ring—-OVER DECADES! Some have taken the approach of “wait and see”…others did the research on the COG cult and were justifiably horrified. A few have chosen to engage the Stockholm Syndrome, or worse, JUSTIFY the presence of this man on the media stage, and congratulate him on his “self-redemption”.

“…what condition are we in that this could transpire like this with such virulence and acrimony and revenge? What’s powering it?”

WE…??? Where were “we” when YOU were doing your job as a PR person for this sick cult? Personally, I was raising MY children far from any such cults; protecting them, and their peers as best I could FROM monsters like the COG leaders, of whom Mr. Ferguson was one.

==

> http://radio.offplanetmedia.net/2016/08/22/digging-in-the-dirt-zen-gardner-occult-abuse-and-the-art-of-deflection/

 

Zen Gardner & The Children of God, an Expose

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPv3vOoFem0

Streamed live on Aug 17, 2016

The strange case of Zen Gardner and what it teaches us about discernment and trust in the Alt Media Community

 

He starts talking about Zen G., and then moves on to Bill Wood
"If a person does not make a confession until he is out-ed, it taints the confession"

===== =====

 

My own question at this stage of my understanding is this:

 

WHAT HAS ZEN DONE, and what is he doing, to heal those whom he may have damaged?

 

For me, forgiveness is part of a process:

 

+ The Perp must be honest about what he has done

+ The Perp must acknowledge that his/her actions have damaged others

+ The Perp must make some real efforts to repair the damage done

 

Once these steps are taken, we can talk about forgiveness

 

I am not the one to whom damage has done, so I am not the one to give or not give forgiveness.

What i try to do, is gain understanding

[drbubb]

CONNECTING Both Dramas?

 

Here's a new video from Mr Chanter, that may connect Both Dramas that we are looking at on this thread

(or at least people involved in both)

 

Max Igan on Zen Gardner

 

(my comments AFTER listening are):

 

Chanter starts out saying, "I do not agree with Max Igan"

(Funnily, he got the Max Igan words off Zen Gardner's website.)

 

"I harbor no ill will... I just disagree," says Canter.

 

Max does not want to condemn Zen, or participate in a witch hunt, and says he has met CofG members who did not participate in pedophilia.

Max imagines a scenario where Zen was in the cult for all those years without participating in abuse of Children, and says "no one has come forward to implicate him"

 

Max: "The man who I have met, and whose eyes I have looked into, is a kind and compassionate individual."

 

Chanter says: "Max is not trained in (various disciplines)... He is a tax cab philosopher."

He goes on to say that Zen had a senior position in the cult, was a public affairs official, and had access to their teachings, which clearly showed that they exalted pedophilia. "The shit the he was doing, was covering up David Berg's molestations."

 

CWC says the leaders (all the leaders?) prepared a video with a young girl doing a strip-tease as a birthday president for Berg.

To Max: "You are an egotistical fuckwad, and I do not like you... You think you are smart. You are not smart, you have a f--ing wesbite."

"Anecdotal evidence means nothing... How many members of the CofG have you met"

"Zen was the PR director in Brazil... Go and look at the website for Brazil, and see what the victims say."

He then goes on to cite the various evidence he has seen, and adds: "I don't think you did any research at all."

"(Child) Sex and Jesus Christ were the main focus of the cult."

 

He goes on: "I hate baby boomers... You went through the sixties... and think you are so cool, forgiving people...

"You all are fuckwads... you did not have to deal with (the fallout of the abused children.)"

 

My reaction:

CW's rant against Boomers is childish. And very biased. He misses the self-irony (You think you are smart. You are not smart.)

Hey, CWC, do you think all people who lived through the Sixties participated in endless drug, and sex orgies? No, man.

There were and are sex and drug orgies in YOUR generation, and going on right now. Are you participating? I think not.

Do not condemn a generation, based on the behavior of a tiny few people. Use your own self-proclaimed powers of analysis

and research BEFORE you condemn individuals. What do you really know about Max, other than he has been loyal to a friend, Zen, you do not like?

 

On Zen: "He sounds like a Hallmark card for hippies... I don't like him. It is simplistic pablemic bullshit, that does not talk to real world problems."

He thinks Zen is a monster, "He was doing PR for a child molester." He says, "there is evidence on the table."

 

His comments are full of "fuck-yous" and noisy rants - and at some stages he sounds that that ridiculous bellowing brown buffalo, Cenk Uygur of TYT.

 

Overall, I would say that CW Canter is a smart guy, trained in research and analysis (was he a lawyer?) but he actually undermines the logic of his case, by the "colorful" expressions and sideways rants that he makes.

[colonelmustard]

Max Igan puts his side of the story in explosive fashion to Richie Allen :

 

" I start to question every single thing this man's done. I start to question my entire relationship with him. I start to question how he does any of the things he does...

How did he get us into Gaza with one phone call ?..I have been trying to get back into Gaza for four years...

Who does that ?...Who is this guy ? "

 

 

Ken O'Keefe is due to have his say on next weeks show

 

 

Kevin Barrett talking about a different subject but perhaps equally relevant when he says :

 

" Everything else you are hearing is CIA/MOSSAD propaganda. You know who owns the media and the alternative media is infiltrated by the same people "...

 

[colonelmustard]

" He dumps his Palestininan wife & kids for a young girl…. that would not really be our business (you may say). The trouble was, it rather synchronized with the supposed fulfilment of his Global Citizen project."

 

http://terroronthetube.co.uk/2016/08/29/o-ken-what-have-you-done/#more-6231

 

[colonelmustard]

"Now is the time to back only those polticians who will put American interests first... ahead of those of Israel."

 

Deja vu moment when I read this..almost word for word comment I had written on youtube regarding the battle for control of the Labour party in Britain and the attempted Blairite ( zionist ) leadership takeover...

 

...Its time the Labour party found some REAL people who will represent the interests of the UK before those of Israel ....It was swiftly deleted

 

" (Whose voice is that, some may ask? if you really want to know, send me a PM.) "

 

Thought I recognised your dulcet tones Dr. B

[Softlywinged]

WOW....some fantastic research....thank you!!!

[drbubb]

"Now is the time to back only those polticians who will put American interests first... ahead of those of Israel."

 

Deja vu moment when I read this..almost word for word comment I had written on youtube regarding the battle for control of the Labour party in Britain and the attempted Blairite ( zionist ) leadership takeover...

 

...Its time the Labour party found some REAL people who will represent the interests of the UK before those of Israel ....It was swiftly deleted

 

" (Whose voice is that, some may ask? if you really want to know, send me a PM.) "

 

Thought I recognised your dulcet tones Dr. B

 

Whomever it was (haha)

The comments towards the end (of the RFK video from 2-years ago) ANTICIPATE TRUMP, don't they?

 

"What is needed is a major figure... who will speak out against wars...

Someone with the right courage and moral sensitivity to take on this heroic task

 

Honestly, it feels like a sort of forward glimpse, something like Remote Viewing the Future,

And It isn't the first time

 

- Here's another forward glimpse inside the future before it happened: A poem written a few days BEFORE 9/11

(You may not believe this, but I had a picture of a tall building in flames when I wrote part of this):

 

Twilight for the Old Gods - Earth Renewed, a 911 Poem

 

There will be a renewal of America sometime after Chaos moves like an Ogre (Trump still wearing some of his old reputation?)

and smites the evil one(s)

 

Want another advance warning?

(My intuition tells me the Clintons will not be around much longer, and especially Hillary.

I have long had foreboding about her fate. I think the chances of her being sworn in as President are virtually zero.

Perhaps the elites will decide to get rid of her, like they did Howard Beale in Network. She is no longer useful.)

 

People have speculated that Trump might be a target for an assassination attempt (for obvious reasons),

and I don't rule that out. But I think it will be HRC who will be disposed of - she is used up, and is no longer good-for-task.

And if the wheels of justice keep turning, then not only Hillary but other shadowy powers surrounding her will be exposed.

 

Do you really think a full exposure of the shadowy puppet masters will be allowed to happen?

Isn't disposing of HRC something they would try, to save their own skin?

 

Take a look at the end of the movie Network

 

This is how real monsters, like Hillary's masters, behave

 

[Softlywinged]

Max's response to Thomas Sheridan

Max Igan

Yesterday at 7:30am ·

Sigh... A Message for Thomas Sheridan seeing as I am unable to post on his page. Please feel free to share with him

You are attacking me Thomas? Why? Because you somehow believe I dont poor any of my passion into the 100s of hours of work I put into my videos and films that I give away all for free... and because you disagree with me over the Zen Gardner issue?

Deeper Sigh... Let me once and for all attempt to make myself CRYSTAL CLEAR on the ZG issue for all those who are apparently too ill equipped with the powers of reasoning to be able to do so on their own.

If zen gardner is guilty he should be hung. Thats a given.

All I have said in my comment is that we should have a trial before any hanging. What you are actually saying with your stance Thomas is:

"I want no rights and if I am ever accused of anything I want you to hang me before the trial"

... to me that is simply psychotic.

You can attempt to defame me for it however much you like but I believe in a a FAIR trial for EVERYONE! And frankly I am quite surprised at You attacking me at all. I know you. I have supported and shared your work many times, I have even bought your books to help you out and I thought we were friends. I have never said a bad word about you and for you to now publicly attack me without even being man enough to ask me about things first reveals to me a very huge flaw in your character. In response I suggest you bend over and shove your head up your fat ass and examine your inner self a little before attacking anyone who believes in the value of human rights and being so eager to give your own away.

And you are defending Ken O'keefe why? is it because he stole his irish last name from his former wife? is that all it takes to garner your loyality? and claiming I am exposing Ken to provide cover for ZG? Are you for fucking real? Is that your actual level of research and intellect? Are you fucking kidding me? Did you listen to my richie allen interview?

Thomas you are a cowardly, two-faced cunt. You could have been a man about it and spoken to me instead of publicly displaying the tendencies of the people you write about in your books. Grow a pair. You are fucking embarrassing.

you need to do some fucking serious inner work...

[colonelmustard]

My memories of 9/11 are very vivid because I was travelling that day or I should have been... before my trip I had changed my return flight from the 11th to the 12th of September 2001 for no particular reason that I could fathom at the time other than some instinct to do it.

 

I was sorting through some old papers the other day. I am a hoarder. I hate to throw anything away. I think I get it from my mother she was brought up during the Second world war. A time of rationing and hardship ( blood sweat toil and tears ) my Grandfather ( her father ) was away on duty with the army and she was at home in Oxfordshire with her mother and two sisters ever fearful of invasion ( If the Germans come you and your sisters hide down the well ) and worried for safety of her Dad. It was a time of " make do and mend " .

 

The point being something so profound stays with you all your life and it's etched into your DNA and passed to your children and in everything you do for the rest of your life whether you are concious of it or not.

 

Don't throw anything away unless you are absolutely 100% certain it will never needed or cannot be adapted and used again. Hence the psychological need to keep hold of everything long after there is any rational need to and the reason why I had kept the documentation of my flight change.

 

I covered in a post I made a few years ago my abberation at 3 am on the morning of 9/11.

 

I awoke in the night with a shiver that sixth sense you get of something watching you. The hairs on your neck stood on end with electricity...a tingling and suspended in mid air I will never forget the image of what I can only describe as a death mask. Something strangely akin to the moulded face you see on a Hollywood Oscar. Now this is something that was puzzling to me at the time... I blinked...thought perhaps it was part of a dream tried to refocus and looked again...it's still there...again..it's still there..one more time...

 

By now I am wide awake and it's like something is in the room with me. I decide to turn away and go back to sleep. In some kind of denial...confused and annoyed with myself for the thought in my mind that this was some kind of premonition of my demise.

 

It wasn't ....but maybe it was someone elses

 

[drbubb]

Did you listen to my richie allen interview? - Max Igan

 

( I will put a Link here )

DONE!

Max Igan Says That Ken O'Keefe's World Citizen Initiative Is A Pyramid Scheme

Published on 31 Aug 2016

PuggiTheGreat 4 days ago (edited)

Ken O'Keefe is on the show on Monday to give his side of the story in this debacle. It's not very often you hear Max Igan so ANGRY, and I mean really ANGRY ! Towards the end one can hear in his voice how upset he is. This is terrible if true and I must admit that at the moment I'm inclined to think Max Igan is right.

KEN's SIDE of the story

/ coming in s day or two /

 

(and for those who like that, here is an earlier interview with Max):

Max Igan Discusses Pokemon Go, Transhumanism & Infowars Islamo

Published on 28 Jul 2016

[drbubb]

My memories of 9/11 are very vivid because I was travelling that day or I should have been... before my trip I had changed my return flight from the 11th to the 12th of September 2001 for no particular reason that I could fathom at the time other than some instinct to do it.

 

I was sorting through some old papers the other day. I am a hoarder. I hate to throw anything away. I think I get it from my mother she was brought up during the Second world war. A time of rationing and hardship ( blood sweat toil and tears ) my Grandfather ( her father ) was away on duty with the army and she was at home in Oxfordshire with her mother and two sisters ever fearful of invasion ( If the Germans come you and your sisters hide down the well ) and worried for safety of her Dad. It was a time of " make do and mend " .

 

The point being something so profound stays with you all your life and it's etched into your DNA and passed to your children and in everything you do for the rest of your life whether you are concious of it or not.

 

Don't throw anything away unless you are absolutely 100% certain it will never needed or cannot be adapted and used again. Hence the psychological need to keep hold of everything long after there is any rational need to and the reason why I had kept the documentation of my flight change.

 

I covered in a post I made a few years ago my abberation at 3 am on the morning of 9/11.

 

I awoke in the night with a shiver that sixth sense you get of something watching you. The hairs on your neck stood on end with electricity...a tingling and suspended in mid air I will never forget the image of what I can only describe as a death mask. Something strangely akin to the moulded face you see on a Hollywood Oscar. Now this is something that was puzzling to me at the time... I blinked...thought perhaps it was part of a dream tried to refocus and looked again...it's still there...again..it's still there..one more time...

 

By now I am wide awake and it's like something is in the room with me. I decide to turn away and go back to sleep. In some kind of denial...confused and annoyed with myself for the thought in my mind that this was some kind of premonition of my demise.

 

It wasn't ....but maybe it was someone elses

 

I believe these senses of: Awareness, Foreboding, and even Prophecy are getting stronger... and we may be evolving fast now

 

PSYCHIC BREAKTHROUGH REMOTE VIEWING THE FUTURE! DARK J

[Softlywinged]

O'Keefe gets his chance to defend himself and all I see is Max was right all along.....screaming and yelling to subvert the questions doesn't make O'Keefe right, only proves his guilt. Start at the 15:00 minute mark, I'm disgusted with this government shill

http://richieallen.podomatic.com/entry/2016-09-05T14_17_03-07_00

 

Ken O'Keefe Responds To The Claims His World Citizen Contract Is A Pyramid Scheme.

[FriarN]

O'Keefe gets his chance to defend himself and all I see is Max was right all along.....screaming and yelling to subvert the questions doesn't make O'Keefe right, only proves his guilt. Start at the 15:00 minute mark, I'm disgusted with this government shill

 

Ken O'Keefe Responds To The Claims His World Citizen Contract Is A Pyramid Scheme.

 

I listened, and posted this comment:

Friar Newborg

Ken is his own worse enemy here. He jumped in with an aggressive tone, and accused RA of being a "shoddy journalist" That's not smart; since Richie's audience would be expected to be on the host's side, and not wanted him attacked. I think Richie started off somewhat negative, but was trying to be neutral, and if KOK has not been so aggressive, this might have gone much better. What Ken seems to have on his side was some evidence that he did not buy land with the money and protected the funds. Why did KOK not steer there? It is curious

[Softlywinged]

curiouser and curiouser LOL thanks for posting the vid for me