GOLD

[kernull]

[romans holiday]

Um, given all the rumours of an imminent smack down, the contrarian in me expects a sharp price spike and time to take massive profits (in paper PMs) come Friday afternoon (UK)...

 

Whatever you do, do not be tempted into chasing this market, not in this environment. Remember what happened to the oil price a few weeks ago when the price spiked from $100 to $130pb within half an hour only to tank subsequently to below $50...

yes, do not chase gold up. If anything sell a bit on the spike and buy again on the "smackdown" which will come. We have not seen capitulation and panic in the markets yet.

[Rosco]

Whats a good page for long term charts GbpXau and JpyXau ?

[ziknik]

Whats a good page for long term charts GbpXau and JpyXau ?

 

try gold price

 

http://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html

[Steve Netwriter]

yes, do not chase gold up. If anything sell a bit on the spike and buy again on the "smackdown" which will come. We have not seen capitulation and panic in the markets yet.

 

She sold her gold:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meWDndCUaDk

 

 

:D

 

[FWIW]

 

 

If she hits 900, then she will not just stop and turn away...she will keep on motoring!

 

Another bailout of unbelievable proportions for (sh)itiGroup and nobody notices? I think not.

 

People are not black boxes - look at the fundamentals as well! Don't let others do the thinking for you...

[warpig]

I've just spoken with CID and she said that you have just exceeded her stock on that item, but they would look to fulfill the remainder of the order the next day. I asked her about Krugerrands and she said she has hundreds in stock, I've asked her to get some more in.

 

One thing to bare in mind is that if you order more than £5K in a single order or more than £10K per annum then you must provide additional proof of identity for money laundering purposes. This is however on a per user basis, so you could ask your wife to register to get around this. She is also happy for multiple orders per day to avoid breaking the £5K limit so long as it doesn't exceed the £10K limit.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks, I have an invoice number so I presume the price is fixed at the time of order and they will honour my order subject to stock.

[The Mad Hatter]

Now then, now then. Caaaaam down, caaaam down!

 

Could we just have a bit of a reasoned debate about BV for a moment.

 

Is there something in this allocated, insured physical gold holding in Zurich that I'm not getting?

 

If BV go bankrupt, I still own my gold (although it might take a little while to get hold of it). My gold is not an asset of BV.

 

If Viamat go bankrupt, I still own my gold (although it also might take a while to get hold of it). The gold in its vaults is not an asset of Viamat.

 

I'm noticing an increasing number of comments about "electronic gold" or "paper gold". Can anyone convincingly explain that the service BV offers falls into either of these categories? Or am I going to have to fly to Zurich and see the contents of the Viamat vault for myself? In short, does anyone have any evidence that BV does not do exactly what they say they do i.e. hold physical gold securely on behalf of the rightful and legal owners?

 

 

[Mr Pipples]

The Hoye-ster: Gold sector update - http://www.321gold.com/editorials/hoye/hoye112708.pdf

 

OUTLOOK FOR GOLD STOCKS

• Gold shares had been likely to decline as part of the typical fall crash, which would

likely clear around mid November, and our advice since late October has been to

cover shorts in silver stocks and to get long the gold sector.

• A new bull market for gold shares has been expected to start in November and run for

a few years.

• This has been expected to encompass the whole gold sector, including exploration

stocks.

• Based upon previous post-bubble contractions, this could run for around 20 years. Of

course, the usual business cycle would prevail, with the gold sector doing well on the

recessions.

[sid]

Now then, now then. Caaaaam down, caaaam down!

 

Could we just have a bit of a reasoned debate about BV for a moment.

 

Is there something in this allocated, insured physical gold holding in Zurich that I'm not getting?

 

If BV go bankrupt, I still own my gold (although it might take a little while to get hold of it). My gold is not an asset of BV.

 

If Viamat go bankrupt, I still own my gold (although it also might take a while to get hold of it). The gold in its vaults is not an asset of Viamat.

 

I'm noticing an increasing number of comments about "electronic gold" or "paper gold". Can anyone convincingly explain that the service BV offers falls into either of these categories? Or am I going to have to fly to Zurich and see the contents of the Viamat vault for myself? In short, does anyone have any evidence that BV does not do exactly what they say they do i.e. hold physical gold securely on behalf of the rightful and legal owners?

 

As far as I can understand (have most of mine in BV, London) the main problem is confiscation by our gov. which to be honest there is very little anyone can do apart from comply, even those with traceable stroage in other countries could potentially have to give up.

 

If you check cgnao have warned about this in his earlier post, there is strong possibility that it could happen when things take turns to worse of SHTF.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Which is why I don't have any holdings in London. I bought a few grams there by mistake but have sold those again on this latest uptick.

 

However, if there is gold confiscation, will there also be restrictions on travel that would prevent me going to Switzerland to pick the stuff up?

 

 

 

 

[ziknik]

Now then, now then. Caaaaam down, caaaam down!

 

Could we just have a bit of a reasoned debate about BV for a moment.

 

Is there something in this allocated, insured physical gold holding in Zurich that I'm not getting?

 

If BV go bankrupt, I still own my gold (although it might take a little while to get hold of it). My gold is not an asset of BV.

 

If Viamat go bankrupt, I still own my gold (although it also might take a while to get hold of it). The gold in its vaults is not an asset of Viamat.

 

I'm noticing an increasing number of comments about "electronic gold" or "paper gold". Can anyone convincingly explain that the service BV offers falls into either of these categories? Or am I going to have to fly to Zurich and see the contents of the Viamat vault for myself? In short, does anyone have any evidence that BV does not do exactly what they say they do i.e. hold physical gold securely on behalf of the rightful and legal owners?

 

Are you 100% sure it is 'your gold' in BV?

 

I thought you had a reserve a bar in your name for it to become 'yours'.

 

I know for definite that the gold in GM is 'mine/yours/ours' because I checked. I haven't checked BV, but I do have both BV and GM.

 

 

EDIT: I’ve been looking through the FAQs on BV, and it does appear that our gold is NOT BVs asset

[sid]

Which is why I don't have any holdings in London. I bought a few grams there by mistake but have sold those again on this latest uptick.

 

However, if there is gold confiscation, will there also be restrictions on travel that would prevent me going to Switzerland to pick the stuff up?

 

 

My understanding is if anyone has traceable paper (electronic) gold they potentially have to give it up as our gov can/ will make it a criminal offense to hold/ trade regardless of the country its kept (if they put a gun on my head or through me in jail if I don't comply). The panic we see here is justfiable due to rapidly worsening situation. Unfortunately there is not much many of us can do (including me) to make it 100% secure for us. I know holding physical is porbably the best way but how practical it is for some of us.

[ziknik]

Which is why I don't have any holdings in London. I bought a few grams there by mistake but have sold those again on this latest uptick.

 

However, if there is gold confiscation, will there also be restrictions on travel that would prevent me going to Switzerland to pick the stuff up?

 

BV is a Company registered in England & Wales. It doesn't matter where your gold is. If there is confiscation, BV will hand it over. The Swiss Government will not stop BV handing gold over to the UK government (?)

 

GM is a Company Registered in Jersey. It's maybe a little bit safer than BV. But I imagine GM will turn over the gold if they are labelled as a terrorist organisation and have all their bank accounts frozen.

[rgleeson]

BV is a Company registered in England & Wales. It doesn't matter where your gold is. If there is confiscation, BV will hand it over. The Swiss Government will not stop BV handing gold over to the UK government (?)

 

GM is a Company Registered in Jersey. It's maybe a little bit safer than BV. But I imagine GM will turn over the gold if they are labelled as a terrorist organisation and have all their bank accounts frozen.

 

Hmmm, would be interested to hear from a legal beagle about that (if we have one on the forum). If BV owned the gold then your statement would sound about right. But in this case, we would be talking about property that I own in Zurich being confiscated by a foreign government.

[ziknik]

Hmmm, would be interested to hear from a legal beagle about that (if we have one on the forum). If BV owned the gold then your statement would sound about right. But in this case, we would be talking about property that I own in Zurich being confiscated by a foreign government.

 

 

I can see what you’re thinking and I think you’ve potentially got a good point.

 

But, you can’t stop BV turning over their records to HMG if gold ownership becomes illegal.

 

If gold is confiscated (forced purchased) I expect to lose my BV / GM gold. I will not fight to keep it. It’s not worth the life sentence in Guantanamo Bay.

[rgleeson]

I can see what you’re thinking and I think you’ve potentially got a good point.

 

But, you can’t stop BV turning over their records to HMG if gold ownership becomes illegal.

 

If gold is confiscated (forced purchased) I expect to lose my BV / GM gold. I will not fight to keep it. It’s not worth the life sentence in Guantanamo Bay.

 

Swap gold for property, lets say a house, and try the scenario again....

 

The government can issues a CPO (confiscation) for a house I own in UK, but they cannot do the same for a house I own in Zurich.

 

Now, if our first assumption about I/we owning the BV gold is true, I must own the gold in Zurich under Swiss laws. That is the real question no?

[alexreeve]

I can see what you’re thinking and I think you’ve potentially got a good point.

 

But, you can’t stop BV turning over their records to HMG if gold ownership becomes illegal.

 

If gold is confiscated (forced purchased) I expect to lose my BV / GM gold. I will not fight to keep it. It’s not worth the life sentence in Guantanamo Bay.

I always thought the confiscation idea was pretty extreme. Suddenly with ministers blithely talking about forcing banks to lend regardless of risk assessment to small business, using torture metaphors, not to mention the bailout monies, I think they have made it pretty clear that they consider other peoples money to be entirely at their disposal.

 

If/when a sterling crisis emerges it seems extremely likely to me, now, that they will not hesitate to help themselves to any gold they can lay their hands on. Emmigration is starting to have some serious appeal.

[signofthetimes]

I've just spoken with CID and she said that you have just exceeded her stock on that item, but they would look to fulfill the remainder of the order the next day. I asked her about Krugerrands and she said she has hundreds in stock, I've asked her to get some more in.

 

One thing to bare in mind is that if you order more than £5K in a single order or more than £10K per annum then you must provide additional proof of identity for money laundering purposes. This is however on a per user basis, so you could ask your wife to register to get around this. She is also happy for multiple orders per day to avoid breaking the £5K limit so long as it doesn't exceed the £10K limit.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Mucho thanks Warpig, just got home to find the invoice in my inbox!

[ziknik]

Swap gold for property, lets say a house, and try the scenario again....

 

The government can issues a CPO (confiscation) for a house I own in UK, but they cannot do the same for a house I own in Zurich.

 

Now, if our first assumption about I/we owning the BV gold is true, I must own the gold in Zurich under Swiss laws. That is the real question no?

 

I think you’re right, but,

 

Swap ‘Gold’ for ‘Uranium that can be used by Alqaeda to make dirty bombs for use against the UK and her allies’

 

Does it matter that your uranium is in Switzerland?

 

[darreng1000]

I've found a coin shop that has Kruggerands £20 cheaper than CID but strangely more expensively in dollars than CID. Free delivery as well.

 

www.scoinshop.com

 

anyone know much about it?

[rgleeson]

I think you’re right, but,

 

Swap ‘Gold’ for ‘Uranium that can be used by Alqaeda to make dirty bombs for use against the UK and her allies’

 

Does it matter that your uranium is in Switzerland?

 

Well they could always invade Switzerland under operation 'Gold Freedom'.

 

In the event of a confiscation order, I would rather have gold in a Swiss vault protected by Swiss law and sovereignty, than worry about a jail sentence because I have it under my mattress. People who have never broken the law should think hard about how they will really act in such an event. Did most Americans turn in thier gold; if so why?

 

But then I'm a big BV/GM fan, I prefer the liquidity and margin they offer over coins.

[rgleeson]

I think they have made it pretty clear that they consider other peoples money to be entirely at their disposal.

 

 

in the usa there is obscene talk about raiding the whole 401k pension pool!!!

 

u can be sure brooooon is salivating at the prospect of doing the same in the uk

 

In exchange we'll give you a U.S Government paper IOU: "I promise to pay the bearer 1 pension"

[Pluto]

Please forward to 7:00.

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=afb-vinRy3I&NR=1

[The Mad Hatter]

Sorry, it's taken me a while to compose this, so these arguments may have already been covered.

 

BV is a Company registered in England & Wales. It doesn't matter where your gold is. If there is confiscation, BV will hand it over. The Swiss Government will not stop BV handing gold over to the UK government (?)

 

I think this is an important discussion, so let's take this a bit further. Perhaps other people more knowledgeable than me could chip in.

 

Physical Seizure

 

The physical gold is not held by BV, but by VIA MAT, which is a Swiss company. VIA MAT audits the gold and BV publish these daily audits on their web site.

 

BV could tell the UK government that I have gold (as do a lot of individuals who are considerably wealthier and probably more influential than me). But can the Government get hold of the gold? It isn't held in London but in a sovereign state with a long history of armed neutrality. You can't just wander into VIA MAT and say can we please have some of the gold in your vaults that belongs to some private individuals from the UK.

 

The economy of Switzerland is dependent on its banking system. What do you think allowing the UK to confiscate their gold from under their noses would do to their reputation? Do you not think it likely that the Swiss would tell the UK to take a hike? In which case, is the UK going to invade in order to recover this gold?

 

On this basis, I would discount physical seizure of Swiss-held gold as a possible option. Basically, if your gold is in Switzerland, the UK government cannot physically get hold of it.

 

If your gold is held in the UK, then the UK government could physically seize it. However, the situation would have to be pretty dire before that would happen, bordering on a state of emergency. Not impossible, though.

 

If your gold is held in the US, then the US government did legislate against holding private gold in 1933. However, the instances of actual seizure were very few and were all within the US. I think the biggest haul was from a non-US citizen on the basis of tax-evasion. Many people surrendered their gold at the official price, but many didn't (numbers presumably unknown).

 

Liquidation

 

If physical seizure isn't possible, the question then becomes whether the UK government could possibly force BV or me to liquidate my holdings in Zurich and repatriate the money. I guess this isn't impossible but is it likely? Again, this approach would only be possible if legal property rights to own gold bullion were outlawed in this country.

 

I suppose, in extremis, the government could arrest me if I refused to comply. Well, if people go to jail for not paying council tax, I can imagine being prepared to go to jail for the right to own gold. Would I be the first Auric martyr?

 

Before this happens, I would look out for articles in which gold bugs are demonised as:

 

• Hoarding wealth
• Non-patriotic
• Bringing down the financial system
• People of a certain race mentioned frequently in the Bible
• Terrorists