GOLD

[Bobsta]

Smackdown resumes in earnest $951 achieved - time for a long

Smackdown in Silver has been spectacular. I know CC follows Silver closely - would be interested in your views Dominic.

[romans holiday]

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/judge052101.html.

At today's prices, a similar move of just 2300% would price gold at a staggering $6,400 per oz.

 

Obviously this has been written at an earlier time. Of interest is that this price of $6,400 no longer seems staggering. Considering the continued debasement of the dollar, I am not in the least impressed.

[TinBrick]

George Soros--Croesus was told--has covered much of his shorts in financial stocks. Why chance another public policy move by regulators to shut off this automatic feeding trough?

 

Soros finally shorted oil at $137 a barrel and put on a long position in gold; he expects to see gold hold its ground even if oil continues to decline.

 

Soros sells oil to buy gold - Forbes report

[headmelter]

George Soros--Croesus was told--has covered much of his shorts in financial stocks. Why chance another public policy move by regulators to shut off this automatic feeding trough?

 

Soros finally shorted oil at $137 a barrel and put on a long position in gold; he expects to see gold hold its ground even if oil continues to decline.

 

Soros sells oil to buy gold - Forbes report

 

 

Thought this bit was interesting.

 

" In fact, the gold bug clique believes in a consistent 10-to-1 ratio for gold and oil. It holds that either gold will rise to 10 times a barrel of oil ($1,350 an ounce) or oil will fall to $96 a barrel--one-tenth the present market price of gold. Croesus was told Tuesday that statistics spanning many decades support, on average, this 10-to-1 ratio."

 

 

[headmelter]

Looks like the 3.30 smackdown could be on today.

[TinBrick]

Thought this bit was interesting.

 

" In fact, the gold bug clique believes in a consistent 10-to-1 ratio for gold and oil. It holds that either gold will rise to 10 times a barrel of oil ($1,350 an ounce) or oil will fall to $96 a barrel--one-tenth the present market price of gold. Croesus was told Tuesday that statistics spanning many decades support, on average, this 10-to-1 ratio."

 

Some discussion of the gold/oil price ratio in May (look through posts around the 18th)

Gold comments - May 2008

 

Suffice it to say there was some skepticism that the ratio had to revert to the long term average.

[alexreeve]

Some discussion of the gold/oil price ratio in May (look through posts around the 18th)

Gold comments - May 2008

 

Suffice it to say there was some skepticism that the ratio had to revert to the long term average.

Largely from Magpie who is sceptical of everything.

[Bobsta]

Some discussion of the gold/oil price ratio in May (look through posts around the 18th)

Gold comments - May 2008

 

Suffice it to say there was some skepticism that the ratio had to revert to the long term average.

And according to that discussion (and Dr B's chart) the ratio is around 14:1, not 10:1.

 

[wren]

And according to that discussion (and Dr B's chart) the ratio is around 14:1, not 10:1.

I was thinking the same so let's see: 130 x 14 = 1820.

 

I reckon that although oil can undergo corrections, 170 to 200 could become the norm.

 

So, 200 x 14 = 2800.

 

And that's without overshooting, which is quite possible.

 

A quiet day on the gold market today. It managed to dip just below 950 for a little while, but pretty flat overall. Do you think a lot of people got burnt yesterday and are licking their wounds?

 

955.80 right now.

[azazel]

Largely from Magpie who is sceptical of everything.

 

I'm grateful of her skepticism. Helps me check my thinking and it makes for healthy debate too. He clearly is intelligent and his arguments are logical.

[GTG]

A couple of knock downs today of different magnitudes and neither one at the time we have been accustomed too.

 

I'm pleased I forgot to place a sell order with my Sbing firm.

 

Is this the PPT being a bit more discreet than of late?

 

Buying on huge volume at $950 BTW.

[GTG]

I'm grateful of her skepticism. Helps me check my thinking and it makes for healthy debate too. He clearly is intelligent and his arguments are logical.

I agree, except for the "her" bit.

[wren]

A couple of knock downs today of different magnitudes and neither one at the time we have been accustomed too.

 

I'm pleased I forgot to place a sell order with my Sbing firm.

 

Is this the PPT being a bit more discreet than of late?

The takedown was in London trading and only the very end as New York opened. I reckon they feel content going into the weekend.

 

Silver down quite a bit though, at 18.160 now.

 

[GTG]

The takedown was in London trading and only the very end as New York opened. I reckon they feel content going into the weekend.

 

Silver down quite a bit though, at 18.160 now.

 

Do you think that the bullion banks at both sides of the pond are in collusion or New York saw favourable "normal" market movement in London for them not to intervene?

[wren]

Do you think that the bullion banks at both sides of the pond are in collusion or New York saw favourable "normal" market movement in London for them not to intervene?

Just my guess, but I think they are in collusion, yes.

 

City of London-Wall Street is the power axis of the Western world, IMO

 

After NY opened I guess they could have been content just to see the minor recovery and nothing special besides.

 

[Compounded]

Just my guess, but I think they are in collusion, yes.

 

City of London-Wall Street is the power axis of the Western world, IMO

 

After NY opened I guess they could have been content just to see the minor recovery and nothing special besides.

 

This gold suppression business is not a game it's deadly serious.

 

They must make the average man believe gold is a speculative volatile commodity.

 

If they fail gold will be money and their paper will return to its real value zero.

 

[Steve Netwriter]

This is also 'interesting'

 

Why the Mania Phase in Gold May Be Upon Us

 

By Jeff Clark

18 Jul 2008

http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=44533

 

That’s right: the long-awaited Mania stage in gold may be nigh. How can I make such a claim? After all, some have been screaming “It’s here! It’s here!” for months or even years. So I propose that instead of simply declaring that Mania time is near, I lay out the facts and see if you come to the same conclusion.

 

[Bobsta]

Just my guess, but I think they are in collusion, yes.

I guess we'll never know... but I honestly feel that there cannot be one outfit manipulating the market each and every day. It would just get too expensive and would mean you'd never get bull runs.

 

My feeling is that, as per cgnao's other thread, we're seeing a bit of a dead cat bounce in world stockmarkets:

- Citi losses not as bad as feared

- Various other data not as bad as feared

- Freddie and Fannie looking to secure their own funding (previously prevented by SEC ruling)

- Big bull runs the last two days on Wall St and London

- Evidence of carry trade re-igniting

- Gold & Silver down

 

... the last two days just look to me like a flight away from the safety of gold and silver and back into the stock markets. We all know the money will come back one day, and probably quite soon. But I feel it's a bit naive thinking *every* drop in the POG and POS is due to the PPT. Then again, it could be me being naive in thinking the market is in the slightest bit free.

 

A good week for me on the physical gold front but I must confess to getting very badly burned by being heavily long silver today. Hoping for a better week next week. If anyone feels silver may go significantly lower from here, I'd appreciate your input - otherwise I'm holding out for some upwards movement off the back of us losing over $1.20 from this week's peak.

[GTG]

I guess we'll never know... but I honestly feel that there cannot be one outfit manipulating the market each and every day. It would just get too expensive and would mean you'd never get bull runs.

 

My feeling is that, as per cgnao's other thread, we're seeing a bit of a dead cat bounce in world stockmarkets:

- Citi losses not as bad as feared

- Various other data not as bad as feared

- Freddie and Fannie looking to secure their own funding (previously prevented by SEC ruling)

- Big bull runs the last two days on Wall St and London

- Evidence of carry trade re-igniting

- Gold & Silver down

 

... the last two days just look to me like a flight away from the safety of gold and silver and back into the stock markets. We all know the money will come back one day, and probably quite soon. But I feel it's a bit naive thinking *every* drop in the POG and POS is due to the PPT. Then again, it could be me being naive in thinking the market is in the slightest bit free.

 

Sentiment perhaps?

 

[wren]

... the last two days just look to me like a flight away from the safety of gold and silver and back into the stock markets. We all know the money will come back one day, and probably quite soon. But I feel it's a bit naive thinking *every* drop in the POG and POS is due to the PPT. Then again, it could be me being naive in thinking the market is in the slightest bit free.

Yes, about *every* drop I agree, of course not by manipulation (and I was thinking so as I typed before).

 

I believe that to some extent expectations can be self-fullfilling, i.e. owing to the long history of manipulative changes in price punters themselves try to anticipate in large numbers and create that very anticipation.

 

It's quite funny really when you think about it (although deadly seroius).

[headmelter]

I guess we'll never know... but I honestly feel that there cannot be one outfit manipulating the market each and every day. It would just get too expensive and would mean you'd never get bull runs.

 

My feeling is that, as per cgnao's other thread, we're seeing a bit of a dead cat bounce in world stockmarkets:

- Citi losses not as bad as feared

- Various other data not as bad as feared

- Freddie and Fannie looking to secure their own funding (previously prevented by SEC ruling)

- Big bull runs the last two days on Wall St and London

- Evidence of carry trade re-igniting

- Gold & Silver down

 

... the last two days just look to me like a flight away from the safety of gold and silver and back into the stock markets. We all know the money will come back one day, and probably quite soon. But I feel it's a bit naive thinking *every* drop in the POG and POS is due to the PPT. Then again, it could be me being naive in thinking the market is in the slightest bit free.

 

A good week for me on the physical gold front but I must confess to getting very badly burned by being heavily long silver today. Hoping for a better week next week. If anyone feels silver may go significantly lower from here, I'd appreciate your input - otherwise I'm holding out for some upwards movement off the back of us losing over $1.20 from this week's peak.

 

 

I hold some silver too and am hoping for a deeper dip to add more. In the long term I'm confident we're on a winner.

 

[warpig]

This could change sentiment. Does anyone know the volume of his long position?

 

George Soros--Croesus was told--has covered much of his shorts in financial stocks. Why chance another public policy move by regulators to shut off this automatic feeding trough?

 

Soros finally shorted oil at $137 a barrel and put on a long position in gold; he expects to see gold hold its ground even if oil continues to decline.

 

Soros sells oil to buy gold - Forbes report

 

[warpig]

A well written article, the facts speak for themselves.

 

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun.

 

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/judge052101.html.

Lessons from the London Gold Pool

 

The ill-fated London Gold Pool affords us many clear lessons today.

 

1. Manipulation of markets by governments, aided by central bankers and powerful financial institutions does exist, especially when nations' currencies, and particularly the world's reserve currency, are at risk. As stated at the outset, throughout all of history, governments have eventually become deeply involved in the free market process, for their own ends. It is not unreasonable to expect that, if governments became heavily involved in suppressing the price of gold in the 1960's, there is no reason why they would not today.

 

2. History has conclusively shown that manipulation of the free market process ultimately fails; no amount of government control, regulation or price manipulation can change the workings of the free market over the long term, the London Gold Pool being no exception. No amount of gold, air-shipped to market by the gold pool could satisfy demand when investors decided, on mass, to storm the market.

 

3. Those behind orchestrating market intervention suffer great loss when their efforts eventually end. By the time the gold pool was officially disbanded in early 1968, it had cost the member countries many billions of dollars (a lot of dollars in those days). The Bank of England never again regained its former position and prestige within the world gold market after the collapse of the London Gold Pool. As one London bullion dealer put it "the Bank of England are no longer the masters, they are just a post office or warehouse where gold is stored before it comes to the market".

 

4. Markets that have been artificially capped, catapult dramatically when market suppression ends. In the 12 years from 1968 to the peak of the bull market, the price of gold had rallied by 2300%. It has been said that "the greater and the longer the manipulation, the greater the eventual price is going be". Today, with far greater amounts of gold involved in the price suppression scheme (10,000 – 15,000 ton versus 3,000 ton in the gold pool era), over a longer period of time, and with far more at stake, it can only be concluded that the eventual price of gold may well run much higher than the 2300% of the late 60's and 70's. At today's prices, a similar move of just 2300% would price gold at a staggering $6,400 per oz.

 

[Steve Netwriter]

I said this website was good ages ago, and then I forgot about it

So I have now subscribed, because.............it's brilliant.

 

An example:

 

Who is to blame for surging food and oil prices?

http://cij.inspiriting.com/?p=455

 

 

[bakachu]

I said this website was good ages ago, and then I forgot about it

So I have now subscribed, because.............it's brilliant.

 

Had a quick read of some articles, easy and interesting to read, leaves me with lots of things that I want to research next (like what MZM or TMS is all about), thanks!

 

Oh, if it makes anyone feel better, I too screwed up on the timing of a big (for me!) silver order, got in at 18.9 where as if I had waited 24hours could have been 18.1, oh well! still feel a lot better for owning something for the money rather than the pure speculative value of it.