nicejim Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Gold is not an investment so charts of that kind do not apply. Whilst gold's value is not generally accepted, eg. you can't go into a shop and see a can of coke priced in gold milligrams, will it not behave like an investment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Whilst gold's value is not generally accepted, eg. you can't go into a shop and see a can of coke priced in gold milligrams, will it not behave like an investment? Lots of countries price items in gold. Just because we don't in the West doesn't mean it's not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternationalRockSuperstar Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Forget the monied up middle managers nearly ready to retire. A friend of mine has a similar house, Z4 & 2007 Landrover for the wife, etc. His pensions with three different firms have basically collapsed, his debt is getting to the point of breaking, he can't sell his current house, he's f&^ked and so are too many more yes, sadly any middle class families that don't own a good chunk of PMs (or other high value density hard assets) won't be middle class for much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNSHURE Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I don't think that 300K for that house is over optimistic. If the current average wage is 24k then the average house should be 3.5 x 24 = 84K, but as of the end of Feb it was 156K. House prices then have to drop another 47% to get back to the norm, so 53% of 600K is 318K. It's either that or wages go up. Forget the monied up middle managers nearly ready to retire. A friend of mine has a similar house, Z4 & 2007 Landrover for the wife, etc. His pensions with three different firms have basically collapsed, his debt is getting to the point of breaking, he can't sell his current house, he's f&^ked and so are too many more The housing market, on the way down, is likely to undershoot the long term trend which would likely take it below £300K. I think that, in a deflationary scenario, we would see houses prices at much lower levels than today (take Japan as an example with 70% falls from the top). In an inflationary scenario, house prices might start going up again (though continue to fall in real terms - eg against gold). The other factor is the average wage. Will this keep pace with inflation? - possibly not. This would result in real wealth and income destruction. People would have to adjust their spending patterns to the new paradigm. Many people, who are currently living beyond their means would be forced to sell things like property. In an inflationary environment, debts would also be reduced in value. However, interest rates would also be very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pluto Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 yes, sadly any middle class families that don't own a good chunk of PMs (or other high value density hard assets) won't be middle class for much longer. 2009 version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azazel Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Once the cars are sold it will look much like the top picture pluto, except with the luxury of colour, maybe..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternationalRockSuperstar Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Once the cars are sold it will look much like the top picture pluto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 The housing market, on the way down, is likely to undershoot the long term trend which would likely take it below £300K. I think that, in a deflationary scenario, we would see houses prices at much lower levels than today (take Japan as an example with 70% falls from the top). ... East Germany saw similar falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicejim Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Lots of countries price items in gold. Just because we don't in the West doesn't mean it's not happening. I didn't know that. Which countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Vietnam, for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternationalRockSuperstar Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Vietnam, for a start. yeah, it really p1sses off the Vietnamese gov't that their people won't use their sh1tty fiat currency: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5541c9a6-4151-11...00779fd2ac.html Vietnam suspends gold imports By Amy Kazmin in Bangkok and Javier Blas in London Published: June 23 2008 19:28 | Last updated: June 23 2008 19:28 Vietnam’s communist authorities have temporarily suspended all gold imports in a bid to tackle the country’s spiralling trade deficit and help support the depreciating local currency, the dong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicejim Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 yeah, it really p1sses off the Vietnamese gov't that their people won't use their sh1tty fiat currency: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5541c9a6-4151-11...00779fd2ac.html Yes, I was wondering if it was something to do with the currency being ****ed rather then some longstanding tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InternationalRockSuperstar Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Yes, I was wondering if it was something to do with the currency being ****ed rather then some longstanding tradition. in the case of Vietnam it's a bit of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Netwriter Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Out of the gate, what do we see ? The US$ rises against the Euro, with a good gap down on the EURUS$. Gold rises from 940 to 950. And the Yen is on the rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I ordered another 10 ounce bar on Asia open - I'd prefer to be in than out and I hate waking up to find the price has raced away during London hours. I've fully replaced my ETF position with physical now. Plenty of powder dry to accumulate further should we fall back to $900 or below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 yes, sadly any middle class families that don't own a good chunk of PMs (or other high value density hard assets) won't be middle class for much longer. They had an article on this subject on CNN tonight. It was showing people selling their valuables at auction houses. The main guy featured lost his job recently and was selling his gold coin collection (9 ounces). I was thinking, NO don't do it - you must have something else to sell I hope he booked a decent profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziknik Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I ordered a couple of small bars from Barids on Saturday night using the website. I’ve got an email from them today. The price has gone up (they haven’t held the Saturday night price). Is this normal? It’s only a few pence, but it’s the principle of the matter. And They want the money within 3 days or they will change the price. How is it possible? BACS is 4 days as standard. I’m at work now and can’t pay within office hours today so I have lost a day already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signofthetimes Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I ordered a couple of small bars from Barids on Saturday night using the website. I’ve got an email from them today. The price has gone up (they haven’t held the Saturday night price). Is this normal? It’s only a few pence, but it’s the principle of the matter. And They want the money within 3 days or they will change the price. How is it possible? BACS is 4 days as standard. I’m at work now and can’t pay within office hours today so I have lost a day already should've gone to specsavers CID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G0ldfinger Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I ordered a couple of small bars from Barids on Saturday night using the website. I’ve got an email from them today. The price has gone up (they haven’t held the Saturday night price). Is this normal? It’s only a few pence, but it’s the principle of the matter. And They want the money within 3 days or they will change the price. How is it possible? BACS is 4 days as standard. I’m at work now and can’t pay within office hours today so I have lost a day already I thought money arrives same day now? I have ordered some bars from them recently and they kept to the weekend price. In general price must be confirmed, the web page is only an indicator when you put in an order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertyuiop Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Can't you maintain a cash account with gold dealers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziknik Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 should've gone to specsavers CID Last time I ordered from CID, the courier left my silver with my neighbour. I don’t want my PMs in my neighbours flats. Not even for a few minutes. If I miss the Bairds delivery, it should go to the Royal Mail sorting office for me to collect. The prices for small bars are smilliar I thought money arrives same day now? I have ordered some bars from them recently and they kept to the weekend price. In general price must be confirmed, the web page is only an indicator when you put in an order. My money is at Nationwide. I think Nationwide can receive fast payments but not send them (yet) All I can do is pay and keep my fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Pipples Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Russian Prime Minister Putin thinks gold is going up - Gold Price Correction Will Not Last http://www.gata.org/node/7210 Vyacheslav Shtyrov, president of Sakha, approached Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Wednesday with a plea for help. The sparsely populated republic, home to companies including Transneft, Surgutneftegaz and Mechel, is suffering from the drop in prices for gas and coal. Sakha is having trouble keeping up with its investment goals for 2020 and the region's labor market is suffering, Shtyrov said at the meeting. Putin listened and then took a breath. "Vyacheslav Anatolyevich," he said, addressing him by his patronymic, "the global prices of coal, gas, metals and even diamonds have fallen. But the price of gold is rising -- and gold is mined on your territory." When Shtyrov called attention to miners' problems with creditors, he was once again rebuffed. "We'll solve the problem with gold mining," Putin said. "Especially since -- I'll say it again -- I'm well aware that the price of gold is rising on world markets." While the price of gold might not be enough to save Sakha single-handedly, the prime minister, for the most part, is right. Minus a slight setback this week, the commodity's value has increased steadily since Nov. 12, when it reached an annual low of $712.30 per ounce. Between then and this year's Feb. 20 high, it has gained 39.4 percent to $992.90. Gold's decline this past week reflected a correction of a sharp rally, said Lenar Khafizov, a metals analyst at Rye, Man & Gor Securities. On Friday, prices for the metal fell to $984.74 an ounce, down 4.2 percent from the previous week. Nonetheless, the rally should continue through the first half of the year, with gold reaching a maximum price of $1,150 an ounce in May or June, Khafizov said. While gold tends to fluctuate in reverse correlation to the dollar, the longtime safe haven has been given an extra boost from the vulnerability of foreign currencies. The leader in the Russian market is Polyus Gold, which saw its shares on the MICEX rise 172 percent from 448.95 on Nov. 18 to 1,220.46 on Friday. Shares of gold and silver producer Polymetal grew 207 percent on MICEX from a yearly low of 70.03 on Nov. 20 to close last week at 213.86. Russian gold producers have also benefited from the falling ruble, said Nikolai Sosnovsky, a metals analyst at UralSib. "A strong gold price coupled with a weak ruble means lower cash costs for production, which in turn means better financials this year," he said. "UralSib believes 2009 will be tough and we don't see a recovery this year," he said. "We don't see any positive movement in global economies, and for the moment that will keep gold prices high." It remains to be seen, however, how the news will play out for Shtyrov. In a statement dated Thursday on the Sakha web site, Putin's second reminder on the price of gold appeared in a slightly different form from the official transcript. "I think we'll solve the gold mining question. Especially since the price of gold on world markets is rising," Putin said, according to the Sakha statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compounded Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Last time I ordered from CID, the courier left my silver with my neighbour. I don’t want my PMs in my neighbours flats. Not even for a few minutes. If I miss the Bairds delivery, it should go to the Royal Mail sorting office for me to collect. The prices for small bars are smilliar My money is at Nationwide. I think Nationwide can receive fast payments but not send them (yet) All I can do is pay and keep my fingers crossed. Bairds use the post Office for delivery and i have never had a problem with them, the postman knows me by sight if i am out when they deliver I can pick it up at the depot. CID use a different courier I think it's UPS - they are hopeless - they were unable to find the address once - the first i knew about it was when Sonia rang me to tell me the coins had arrived back in Germany. CID have silver Britannias in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWIW Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Thank you PPT! Just pulled my trigger at 938!!! Errr - you can stop the sales now! Please? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romans holiday Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Come on PPT... still waiting for 850 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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